The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
In this way I seriously need to detach. My AH has never been financially wise, and now that he his an active A, he's downright dumb (financially). Not too long ago I consolidated a few of his mounting credit debts into one low interest loan with a five-year payoff plan. It's a joint account, in both of our names. I didn't want to assume his debt, but part of me was convinved I bore some responsibility because I didn't work for so long. I don't want to assume anymore debt that he accumulates. Where do I get stop? He has an account that he typically draws $$$$ every month with no apparent intention of paying it off. He is oblivious to the balance, the (very high) interest rate, or how much he draws, because it automatically pulls from his checking account when he overdraws. And it is all for beer and his own entertainment. I take care of EVERYTHING ELSE, that means food, clothing, bills, kids activities, pet needs, gas, his bills. I know that I have nothing to do with this mounting debt, but it irks me to know end that he is letting it happen. I mention it to him occaisionally, but he just noncommittedly aggrees with me and either changes the subject or leaves the room. I know that it is not ever really on his mind. What I need to know is... What is the worst that can happen with this account? One thing that already happened, the SOBs doubled the limit on it, because he is such a "good customer". That is total crap because I have the exact same deal, and they didn't raise the roof on mine. So what if he fails to pay it, which will eventually come to pass. I know there will be late fines, and collection agencies. Can they take our house? I want it to just affect him, so he can bear his own consequences for once. I want his credit affected and not mine. Is that possible? We are married. Uuuuhhhg. Jamie
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I'm like a pinch of tea...put me in hot water and see how strong I can be.
When my husband and I spilt up, he got one of these accounts. He overdrew and overdrew for along time. After a while there wasn't enough money in his checking to cover the the charges anymore. Then he just didn't pay at all. One day a lady called and wanted payment. I informed her I had nothing to do with the account and she needed to talk to him. She asked if we were married. We were, but he had opened the account after we separated. She said too bad. As long as u are married u are involved. She went on to tell me about my house, how much we owed and down the line on every asset we had. She was an asset investigator.
I don't know if this has to do where I live or not. Different states, different laws. If you are really concerned, you need to get some legal advice. Find out how to protect yourself, if you feel it is necessary. Just knowing for sure what is going on can give a person some peace. I wish I had checked things out further, instead of just sitting back and worrying.
Greta is right. If you are married, you are as responsible for his debt as he is. More so if he refuses to pay. The creditors will come after you. That's one of the lovely privileges of being married.
Can they take your house? You bet. They can file a lien against your house or any other property you own, and if you get ready to sell, it has to be paid off before a sale can take place. This happened to my nephew. He went to refinance his house and then found that two creditors had a total of $50,000 in liens against his home. Guess who didn't qualify for refinancing????
Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 20:31, 2007-06-28
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I'm 46 years old with three young kids and an AH several months sober who just went to live at the Salvation Army. Our house finally sold after 8 months on the market. By the time the mortgages, taxes and closing costs are paid, I'll be lucky if there's enough left to pay the last two payments on my car.
Once that's out of the way, it's off to file for bankruptcy, because over the last decade, we've managed to rack up over 80K in credit card debt. Last year I made around 10K working part time while watching my kids. (The last time I left them alone with a drinking AH, he left them home alone to go buy beer - they were 6, 4 and 2 at the time.) My AH's attitude was always - 20 bucks isn't going to break us. But it was 20 bucks two or three times a day, 7 days a week.....
As Greta and Diva indicated, if can vary from state to state, but if you're married, you're just as liable for any debt he incurs, even if you didn't agree to it. And it's not necessarily an even split 50/50. Even if the divorce court gives him the debt and me the kids, the creditors will still come after me.
Protect yourself, your kids, and your future, please - I'm 46 and we're living with my 77 year old mother for the foreseeable future because I didn't. Get state-appropriate legal advice, and do it quickly.
See, this is the hard part of recovery here for me. Usually when I mention my financial concerns, especially his financial lack of concern, I get alot of..."let it go...stop controlling behavior...keep your side of the street clean" which is all well meaning and good, but what good does it really do me to turn a blind eye to this sort of destructiveness? I can handle my finances very well even on a shoe string budget, but what does it even matter? I can't help but want to freeze his accounts, burn his debit cards, chain him up in his room so he can't mess my life up anymore!! See how recovery for me can get a little convoluted?
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I'm like a pinch of tea...put me in hot water and see how strong I can be.
RJ, you have posed the same question I have been asking for a long time. Yep, slogans are easy to come by, but they are not always based upon fact! Maybe financial ruin is not the worst thing in the world that can happen, but it's right up there.
Take care of yourself. As IMW said, find out how to protect yourself in your state, and do it. I divorced my A because he had a tendency to drive drunk, and on top of that, drive one of MY cars. I became so frightened by the possibilities, I divorced him, and the instant relief was sooooo relaxing. Let it go, stop controlling, keep your side of the street clean and the like just don't cut it when one is faced with a train wreck coming around the curve.
Please take care of yourself.
With great caring and concern,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
My experience is this, in Oregon if you are "legally separated" you are NOT accountable for his debts.
You have to file for this with your court house. I did this years ago so A could not get sued and take my house. You can even still live with them and get one.
We have a think here called Attorney referral where you can see an attorney for $35 for your concern.
You may consider this.
I am so sad you are going thru this. I sure did not enjoy it either. Do your best to start now to protect you!!! love,debilyn
WEll for me it depends on how you take the slogans.
For me this means take care of your stuff. Again find out how to protect you from his messes. It is your choice. It may mean divorce, or legal separation.
Start putting money away. put your vehicle in your name only. Find out how to protect yourself.
there are ways to do that. No we cannot control them. But YES we can learn how to take care of us so we are not dragged into the pit any longer.
There is another slogan that I usually get stuck on and that is "say your prayers and do the footwork" Doing the footwork is the hard part for me. What does that mean? How far do I go? I have asked HP on many occasions to please help me concering my AH and our insurmountable debt. Then I have sat back and waited, as if HP were going to call the bank adn the morgage company and the creditors and straighten it all out me. As you might imagine that never happened. If I have a problem, I pray, I listen and then I do the next right thing. In my case it was contacting the creditors and giving them ah's number with an explaination that I will not be paying anything towards his debts. period. So, they can stop the phone calls for me, I will never give them squat, infact I will report them to the state for harassing phone calls. I do not feel responsibility for his anything, that's me taking care of me.
RainyJamie wrote:I get alot of..."let it go...stop controlling behavior...keep your side of the street clean".... See how recovery for me can get a little convoluted?
Keeping your side of the street clean means protecting your credit and your children's future. Obviously you cannot chain him in the room. Burning the credit cards might help for a day or two until he gets them replaced. You need to get ahold of someone in your state that can tell you how to protect yourself financially. A women's shelter would be a good place to start. If they don't know the answers at least they will know someone for you to contact.
If your focus is on correcting his wrong behavior, then the focus is still on him. So quit that. You are not in control of his behavior. Turn your focus to protecting your financial health and your children's future. Then get information that will allow you to make appropriate choices from this perspective. It may seem convoluted to you, but it isn't to me. From the perspective on your side of the street, how it affects him is only coincidental. What matters is what you are doing to protect your assets.
I filed for separation from my AH back in Jan. Now in my state, there is no legal separation. You simply say you are going to do this to a lawyer who draws up the papers for divorce that you sign and file 1 year later. Once that year has passed and the papers have been signed and notorized, you turn them in to the lawyer w/a fee and they file it w/the courts. This of course is a non-contested divorce.
As I understood things, as long as my name was not on the accounts that my husband had, I am not responsible for them. So I grabbed ahold of that and ran with it. I separated EVERYTHING. Our names are not joint on anything except a joint checking account that has a zero balance. The only reason I keep that open is for situations where a check comes in w/both our names on it - I deposit it into the joint and immediately transfer out to my acct. This hasn't happened in a while since everything has pretty much filtered out now (closing of accts, etc.) over the last few month.
Now my AH is currently living w/me. He sleeps on the couch. By law, we must live separately for one year but hey, who's gonna know. I doubt they have separation police out there making sure all separated couples actually live separately before filing for divorce. Anyhoo.....While he was not living w/me, a credit card company called about his past due acct and I simply said he didn't live here any more and we are separated. The lady said she was sorry and said she would take my phone number and address off of the acct. I never heard back from that company. Unfortunately, I did not act that quickly w/all the others....and now they all call CONSTANTLY. We don't answer the phone. I don't b/c it is not my deal. My AH doesn't b/c he has nothing to tell them.
He just started talking again about filing bankruptcy. He is going to check into it to see how that all works. I am not filing bankruptcy as I refuse to allow my credit to be ruin by his crack habits. All I can do is pray that I understand the laws correctly here where I live and pray that it all doesn't come back and bite me in the rear. I have done all that I can do at the present. I don't have money to cover a dime towards his debts as I am barely making it with mine....which are creeping higher due to supporting his butt (food, gas, letting him live w/me w/out contributing financially).
Seek some professional legal advice to be sure of your rights and obligations. It is the safest way to know what you need to do in order to protect yourself. Good luck. I will keep you in my thougths and prayers. Sincerely, QOD
Well one reason I am glad that the A and I were not married is this the finance stuff.
The A is up to his neck in debt.
I did make a huge mistake of putting his name on the truck. I've beaten myself from here to Timbucktoo over it. Separating that out is a nightmare.
The only thing I can share is to stop beating yourselt up. Yes it is a mess but eventually at some point there is an end to it. I have to turn some of it over like the current speeding tickets.
Take as much action as you can each day and let it go. In time those actions will build up.
I have my own incredible debt (I barely made ends meet for months and borrowed on the credit cards). I'll pay them down in time. I don't need to be a martyr or a victim about it.
There are messes around the A. There certainly are but we can come here and not be judged. We can also come here and sound off about it. That helps.
For me the mess will go on for quite a while. Some of the irony for me is that with or without the A around there is a mess. So I have to check my fantasy at the door. I spent a few months without him around. The mess was still there. For some of us it may take years to negotiate through. Be kind to yourself at all costs. Be polite with yourself!
Sorry if I seemed unappreciative with the alanon slogans, I didn't mean to be. I just wish I could let it go...stop controlling behavior...keep my side of the street clean...ect and that would be enough
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I'm like a pinch of tea...put me in hot water and see how strong I can be.
