The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
Tonight's convo with mom: Me: "Yeah, mom, I did get your message. But I had to think about what I needed to say and how I'm gonna say it. About this weekend, and you and (stepdad) coming down, I hope you have fun, but I'm not going to be availible. The fact is I'm booked up solid, through the weekend. If you want to get together with me, in the future, I'm definately gonna need 1 mo notice. Also, mom, there's some things we need to talk about. Mom, our convo's the past two months have been very hurtful and very demeaning. If you want to be in my life mom, the way things have been have got to change." Mom: "Well, I'm sorry about this weekend...[various suggestions at time compromise that work for neither of us]...and, if you want to bow out of my life, I have no control over that." Me: "I'm sorry you feel that way, mom" Mom: "Well I don't! I don't know what comments you're referring to, but it was never my intention was to hurt you or anything like that." Me: "You said to me 'I've come to accept the fact that you're going to be a college drop out; 'I've come to accept the fact that you're not going to get you're bachelor's degree'; and you said I was stupid" Mom: "I never said you were stupid! And, really, the fact is that I'm 55 and you're 25 and I have more real life experience that you do." Me: "Your exact words were 'There is a reason why some people have a bachelors degree and you will not." Mom: "And you confused that with me calling you stupid? Oh Sarah! Sarah! What is wrong with you? What has happened to you? Well, I guess that we'll catchya next time. mmmmGoodbye." *click
I hope those of you who are Daytonians (or in the area) will come out to CityFolk. It's what I'll be doing this weekend. Rather than waiting on the phone for mom to call me with her availibility and when I can hang out with her. In the mean time, my stomach feels like its sucking itself in.
I am sad for that conversation. I've had one too many of those in my lifetime and hope never to engage (or rarely) in any more of em.
Fortunately for me, I was no longer dependent financially or any other way on the people that I had those crazy conversations with. I also learned to go to the hardware store when I needed to buy a hammer and to the grocery store when I needed bread.
Thank God for this program.
Much love lady and remember if for whatever reason you do not finish college at this moment be it for financial reasons or whatever the case, we learn that in life we can change our minds about any situation at any time for any reason.
Love Maria
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If I am not for me, who will be? If I am only for myself, then who am I? If not now, when?
Just wanted to send a hug. Moms are nuts ( I know mine is) and here i am a mom myself. With 3 daughters none the less! I hope I don't make the same hurtful mistakes our mothers have made thinking that is love. I guess it's the best they can do. Give yourself the love you need. Get your degree, drop out, live in a tree in Australia, whatever and when you are 55 your real life experience will be so very different from hers, there really is no comparison is there?
Some days things just go better than others. We love and support you, and only you can decide how and when is the right time to entertain your folks. You decided that now is not the right time.... and no matter how you say it, they are not likely to like it 'cause it wasn't their idea. Right?
One of the worst things I do to myself, is to decide what is "right" for me, then bury myself in so much guilt that that I have sucked all the "right" out of the situation. That is my own doing.
I hope you will free yourself of the bonds of guilt and really enjoy the CityFolk this weekend. Daytona is a bit far from Texas, but be there with you in spirit!
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
Dearest, I don't know what makes it so hard, the daughter/mother relationship.
I can tell you, even with out any addiction issues it can be terribly difficult. Cannot answer for your mom, however I know you to be very wise, intelligent, unselfish, and willing to share your inner self with others.
Walking into college classes is more than some piece of paper saying you have a "degree." It says you want to keep learning, you are brave to walk into rooms who are full of strangers. Academics, in my experience is the least of what you learn in college. You learn your strengths, you find out things that are totally opposite of how the world is. I found the truth is not taught in public schools.
Ya learn there is more, many more, ways to look at things. We learn about pressure, and how we deal with it. Finals, tests, we find out what we learned and how good the prof was in teaching us.
I learned I had to take more math than people who would actually be using numbers! They just make it a prereq to get more money...
Don't ya feel like your brain just soaks more and more in?
I learned how damaging it is to us for others to put us down, how a parents words can cut us up or build us up. Yes me, even me, I would call my mother in tears becuz I was so scared, my feet hurt so bad from walking up and down stairs of this college in very old historic homes, Oregon State.
She would encourage me. IF she would have said one down thing, I would have quit. That is the power of the mom.
I guess, not that it matters, I invite you to think about this: YOU: do you realize the power a mother has over a child? That an upbuilding word or words can make all the difference in that childs life?
MOM: what do you mean? YOU: Well when I hear anything about me not getting my degree, I feel like I am not doing well enough in that persons eyes. But if someone says to me, well just keep doing your best, I know you can do what you have goals to do. I feel like I really can.
YOU: Mom I guess what I want to say is, I need to hear positive things from my loved ones. It helps me to keep going and to feel good about myself.
MOM: I did not mean to make you feel bad.
I believe no matter what, we want to be accepted and respected by our parents. We need to know they love us. Age does not matter Tigergirl.
I had to learn to accept that my father did not know how to love the way I needed him to love me. My guts hure me now to think about it and I am 54! NO matter the age, we are still someones child inside.
I am glad you came here and shared this. It is very touchy and very painful. All I know for sure is you are very active and helpful here. I can tell you really think about things.
I know we cannot make you not hurt about this. Hey I can tell you, if you pay attention, maybe some older lady will adopt you. What i mean is, in your life you may become friends with someone who turns out to be your mentor and like a mom to you.
I was blessed with that. My mother died in 2000 from breast cancer. Was horrible, my best friend.
Not long after a friend adopted me with out me even realizing it was happening. I called her mom. She helped me thru countles obstacles. she sent me cloths, neat ones, she knew me. we talked and send each other stuff, cried together laughed.
Of course did not take the place of my mother. however, she added so much to my life. I lost my dear MOm last Jan. she just died. Her husband and I talk now. Of course it is not the same, he is a man....lol but he cares.
So know other people will love you the way you need to be loved. It sorta softens what we don't have uno?
Take a breath, drop your elbows, tell yourself you are loved. cuz you are.
hugs and support from a mom who's 45, it doesn't matter waht the age, like Deb said, mom's words can hurt or heal. I hope this mom's words help. YOu are LOVED!
Use to work family group in a o/p clinic and it was sooooo dynamic amazing watching family members, especially parents and offspring running the gauntlet and then, with willingness, arrive at simple awarenesses they refused to recognize or admit to when we started. Differences are temporary and acceptable when the sought after goal is peace of mind and serenity and unconditional love. Many of the participants called the changes remarkable and some called them miracles (kinda like here).
One of the many things I learned from that experience was that the participants needed to be willing to participate and allow a neutral compassionate, understanding and experienced person weave themself in and out of the sessions. The participants had to be disciplined enough to listen and not try to command the lead or attempt any sort of Power and Control behaviors or manipulation over anyone else in session and admit to attempts when caught. When contention diminishes fear also diminishes; growth comes is leaps and bounds as a result of the increased awarenesses and understanding. When fear diminishes so goes defenses because there is nothing to defense. When defenses go down the wide gap becomes narrower and relaxation appears. In the end of many of these events (cases) my clients realized a thing I would tell them before we started. "In the end we will find that the changes we have made will be the result of minute adjustments in attitudes and feelings and behaviors."
Maybe you and your Mother and Step-Father and whom ever else in your family that is close to and affected by this pain would be willing and want to attempt those little changes that attain remarkable results.
I know you love your Mother. I know that she loves you. That is why the hurt is there. If you didn't love each other? No pain.
I learned something else...It takes two or more to cause a fight and when you step out?...the fight ends. If you carry the fight inside of your self you are the only participant and the other person (people) are not even aware the fight is going on or aware they were invited to it. You have turned your spirit over to someone who didn't ask for it.
I learned a rule about fighting with those I love. When the fighting is over I will be just as much or more in love with the person (people) after than before it started. Fighting is not a justification for ending the practice of love and so I learned to fight fair. Fighting fair is better than any kind of fighting I have ever done in my life and worth learning.
I settled with my parents, mother and step-father using what I learned here and from my experience as a counselor. It took a while and we waded thru the swamp called "growth" together and at times alone. The results were remarkable and even miraculous at times. I expressed gratitude to and for my mother and her way of being concerned for and loving and trying to be "right" and setting me up with justifications not to be angry with her. I got to do this late in life and after I ran her heart thru some chambers of horror. I forgave and gave her grace for all the times she wasn't the mother I would have chosen. I accepted my step-father for who he was and not anyone else.
I arrived at the understanding that specifically the only difference twix me and my step-father was age and the difference twix me and my mom was gender and age. They had seen more of life than I had and experienced it with such similar feelings and reaction as I did. My step-dad was male and led with his head, while my mom was female and led with her feelings and heart.
Your mom spoke the language of "letting go". She said somethings that were factual. She expressed confusion (her perceptions vs your perceptions). She expressed her fears and expectations (hers; not yours). She has more experience and hasn't reached perfection...by the way you will not either.
You and your mom had a conversation. Your conversationing may need to be adjusted slightly as you and she make changes from using habits from the past that haven't really worked.
Where to start? How willing and avaiable do we have to be. "How important is it?"
My heart and hope go out to you and your mom. You didn't get to choose her and love comes naturally to all of us. Kinda like a double bind huh?
I get long when I care you can see. ((((hugs)))) to you and your family.
Hugs to you Tiger! I've heard that expectations build resentments - perhaps your mother is just unable to give you what you need and crave from her. I know for me, mine was as well and I spent years of being angry and enraged, trying to teach her how to be the mother I needed her to be. I am now 42 and just this year greived what will never ever be. I also see how I engaged in one unfulfilling relationship after another which was really self destructive and my attempt to fix that other person in my life so they could give me what I needed. Acceptance of who they are, who we are, and what they can offer is key. Then finding our nurturing elsewhere and getting our needs met becomes our choice.
((MIP AFG)) After I posted, I went into my little apt (earned through god's grace, and faking til I made it, b/c you all reassured me that I was capable of keeping up a little apt), cleaned up a little bit (learned through those of you who reassured me that cleaning did not mean I had to be mom, martha stewart, or emily post), and put on a CD I bought (purchased b/c you all reassured me that spending money on myself did not make a martyr, a bad person, or a saint.) I got on my knees and sobbed. "God, what was I THINKING?!?!" I kept saying. Done only because you all reassured me that God does not mind if I curse at him/her, cry at him/her, question his/her will, and loves me more than I understand. I then slept very very heavily. And I am so so greatful to all of you who reassured me that this, too will pass. And to all of you who replied, for hugs, feed back, et cetera. Thank you so much.
Whatever it is that you want, I don't doubt you'll achieve. Should you decide in midcourse to change the direction you are going because that is what YOU want -- I'll celebrate with you. This degree is attainable, you'll get it, no matter what anyone says. But if your heart takes you somewhere else on this journey in life, that is okay too. (who cares what Mom thinks, this is all about you and what you want.)
I just found over the years I have done things to prove myself to others, and they weren't even things I wanted to do. That was earth shaking for me. No matter what you are doing, do it for you, cause it's what you want. Get it because you can, not to prove anything to anyone. Because to those who love you and care about you, the degree doesn't make Sarah -- she's perfect with it or without it.
Dear Tiger, From where I sit, you have good instincts. In your gut you knew you were in the midst of a crazymaking series of conversations with your mom, and you decided to set a boundary to take care of you. A boundary ... you did not shut the door, no matter that your mom said "if you want to bow out of my life, I have no control over that." My mom said stuff like that all the time -- and then I married someone in the same vein -- I used to fall for it for years. So in part I want to send you a (((hug))) and in part provide some support that I think you should be giving yourself a big pat on the back cause you are recognizing this stuff at a very young age and are trusting your gut. I'm sorry you are going through this ... it's hard, I think cause we all want a good relationship with our mom -- it can be very confusing not to have that. What I've learned is that if there is someone I care for, perhaps even a family member, and if they show up unexpectedly and I have plans and I tell them that and ask them to give me advance notice in the future -- well if in the future they don't tell me in advance again, and then try and make it all my 'fault' -- I don't like that situation, but it is good information to have. It tells me alot about them. OR if I tell such a person that, "If you want to be in my life, these are my boundaries." What I actually said to certain family members whose behavior had been manipulative and mean was 'I am only going to have in my life people who treat me with love and respect.' Someone who cared would either naturally do that, or might talk it out to find out what the issue was that needed to be resolved. However the person responds, it may or may not get resolved the way I'd prefer, but in any case, how they respond is good information to have. I have to be aware of what is going on (listening to my gut, is a big part of that), I need to accept that people are whatever they are (can't change, cure or control them), and then I need to figure the next right thing to do. Only you know about your relationship with your mom. I only know what you put in your post. Seems to me you are working the 3 A's (awareness, acceptance, action) as well as the 3 C's. You are taking care of you.
Bottom line, from what I've seen of your posts, you are smart. Period. It is a fact. Nothing your mom or anybody else says will change that. I don't know what is going on with you and college -- but another bottom-line, for me, is whether you graduated in June, will graduate in August, have dropped out or are just taking some time off, it doesn't matter. You are smart, you will be OK. You can probably do anything you set your mind to. Degrees are nice -- Bill Gates doesn't have one. He dropped out of Harvard to work on some crazy nerd project. It seems he's done OK for himself, cause he followed his bliss. I bet you will too.
Dear Tiger, Wow... what a great outpouring of wisdom here... I agree with what everyone said. You are wise. You are have a natural instinct that goes beyond -- touches the soul... you really consider things... not alot of people have that. The smartest people in my profession that do not have good instincts aren't the best at what they do. You know you don't have to conform to others' expectations -- for who you should be, what you should do, which direction you go in or how long you take going that direction. (My husband just graduated in May 2007... he was on the 30 year plan. No kidding! When he started college in 1975, there was no internet!! He typed papers on manual typewriters back in the day... when he finished up in May, he had met the challenges of learning to take online courses, do powerpoint presentations, and email homework to his prof's!!). The hugest hurdle he had to work through was the sense of disappointment he carried for so many years. Yet, all the while he was doing great things.
The most valuable lessons you are learning are life lessons and while you learn, you share and you teach us. You teach us all how to love and how to live -- you are having a huge effect upon the world by touching all the lives on this message board... would a piece of paper make you any better at doing that? (no.. but the pay might be better!!)...
You are fine... we love you for who you are,not what you do. I thin kyou are amazing.
Parents carry their own baggage and I think they have their own issues about us. Ultimately, deep down, I think they think we are a reflection of them... and if we don't achieve (especially those parent boomers)... then they have failed. I think too we define ourselves differently than our parents defined themselves. If they are boomers, they prbably wrapped up their achievements in material things like degress, cars, houses, vacations, clothes, etc. I define myself as healthy, happy, self-aware, a good mother trying to bring her children up happier and healthier than me. In my opinion, the material things fade away... when it comes time to the fiaml days what matters is what kind of person you were, not what was attained or achieved.
Tiger, this is a bump in the road... learn from it. Just remember to pray (for grace & wisdom for both of you) before you start a conversation with your mother... and keep your expectations of her realistic... and remember she has her issues too. One last thing, remember who is in charge of your life... your HP and you... and if it is God's will, you'll be on your way to AZ and Lord knows what lessons and opportunities will open up. Yor HP's way may not be (probably isn't) the same way your mother would hope you'd go. Knowing you, I think you'd want to be on the path of the miracles. Just remember, God has a plan for you... and your HP will open it up to you... your mom may not be able to appreciate the miracles you'll experience along your path, but you will, and we will.
So glad you posted and here's a bunch of hugs comin' your way: {{{{{Sarah}}}}} warmly, Lee Ann
