The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
(((((((((((((Roomies))))))))))))I have been sitting all day trying to fina a solution to my problem, of a relationship..This is the same on-going guy in my life ((recoveringA))Can anyone offer any wisdom....should I let him see this, and hope we can sort this, once and for all...Its killing me!!!!For 22 years we have been in and out of each others lives. Through some heavy stuff, good and bad. Things were always going to get physical between us, in my opinion, It was just a matter of time. Or lack of self - control.Since October its not been easy for us. One min we are having a physical relationship, and then you felt suffocated. Now we are together again. This is a vicious circle for us. We had a few months where we had no contact. The odd text. But we were both thinking about each other on and off. You said you were in your room, wanting to text me, and I was doing the same with you. You text me one night and said No meeting which tells me you were watching to see if my car moved, Why, if your not interested.? I sometimes do that too, to see if your at a meeting.You wanted sex from this and nothing else. You. What about me You knew how I felt about you. You said to me one time, This will NEVER happen again and It has, and keeps happening. Is this becoming Compulsive for us, are we getting addicted to each other in a physical way. We both seem to be enjoying this when it happens.When I ask you if your okay with what we are doing, you mostly hesitate before you answer. You feel guilty, or it doesnt feel right. Have you felt like this with anyone else you had a physical relationship with. I know you have had girlfriends in the past few years. Why was it so different with them? Because you thought you loved them? Because you were obsessed?.Heres what would be nice between us.To be able to come in to visit each other now and again, (walk in the front doors, no hiding), when we are both free, watch a movie, talk, laugh, have a cuddle, just get to know each other. The physical side is taking care of itself. Its comfortable and we have the trust, and respect for each other. That would be nice to continue, when convenient. Also, keep our own space, If and when we needed it. Not throw ourselves into each others social circles.We are good at predicting what the other one will do.(had plenty of practice). If we could get to know each other as Individuals, not just the boy/girl next door. We have both changed and are still changing within the programme. You keep saying to me, I cant do this relationship thing, I dont talk on the phone, I dont know how to act about women, communication, etc.And you never will, unless you give it a try. This is me ..I know you, and have no expectations, of you being someone your not. You can be yourself with me.I know you dont want to be tied to anyone, to remain an Independent person, and thats ok, I do too. We both have our jobs, meetings, friends, interests. But like it or not, we seem to keep coming back together for some reason. Is it because we have no-one else? Are we lonely? Is it just easy, because we are next door?You know me ,or you have done all these years. I have been through every emotion known to a human being, and you have seen them all. But I am changing, no longer the wee girl, the nut job, my insecurities are getting less and less. starting to stand on my own two feet. Dont need a man to survive, as you said to me. But would like you to be a part of my life, as a friend.. The dishonesty is not fair on anyone. Least of all both of us. We try to be honest, but I think we have been hiding somethings. As for you mum? Is this a huge problem, does she not want you near me? Are you scared to tell her we are friends? She already knows we had something before. Is this why Im coming in and out when shes not at home. I asked my mum, If you were still allowed up to my room, when they are in, she said Yes.I think what Im trying to say to you is. We can both be selfish in our doings. We are mature adults, we do not need permission to be friends, or to have an element of Intimacy between us.I dont know how I make you feel, as you have never discussed this with me. I have feelings for you, Sometimes dont really know what they mean. I like being with you, have watched you suffering for years, pretending to me your Fine when your not. You have been affected by an Illness, a horrible disease, that has made you say and do things, I know you are not proud of. People put a label on Alcoholics, They are B******s they done this, that and the next thing. And at one time I used to say the same. I believed they knew how much they were hurting people, what they were doing, and that they were even enjoying it. Thats what I saw in my dad for a long, long number of years.You encouraged me to try the meetings, And today, Im so grateful you did. It has changed my whole perspective on people, places and things. I no longer blame, hate, or live in the past because of Al-Anon.I could look at you and see the person you were, before you found sobriety, but you know what? . I dont. I have no fear of you, I trust you immensely. I can share things with you, and listen to you in return and it stays between us. We do get on well, and we have been known to get on the defensive with each other, and thats good too. We are able to say what we mean, mean what we say, and dont say it mean.(sometimes). lolWe have so many years between us. Am I just a means to an end for you, someone who can give you what you need, as and when required? If so, well, thats sad.thats all we have.The people in your life for the last seven years have been AA, which is a Day at a time relationship for you all, If your friends return to the bottle, where does that leave you? They will have no interest in you any longer, which Im not saying anything you dont already know.You have your football friends, work mates, etcFrom the family side. You have had three people who have been there for you the last seven years. Your mum. Your son..And me, (closest to anymore family).Your mum has always been there, and in her own way, she has constantly enabled you,(Im being honest), she has not know any different. And Im not criticising her. She loves you. And would battle with the devil for you.Your son, Who loves you, But as he is growing up, he is finding his own path, he is also going through some tough times as we all did, growing up. How will this affect your relationship, which has already been under pressure...And mewhat am I? I have stood by you, time after time, because I chose to. When you have been less than Impressive in your actions, I supported you, I have been there to catch the pieces, and try and put you back together again. And yes, I did try to Fix youI now accept I have no power or control over you, and I never have or ever will... As for all your relationships over the years, from what I saw and heard, you have been hurt, and left feeling abandoned and rejected, I can identify with those feelings. This must have affected you, emotionally, mentally and physically too. And its not nice right?Sometimes I feel very Inadequate when Im about you, I compare myself to other women. Maybe Im too short and petit for him, maybe Im not attractive enough, maybe, maybe, maybe. This is all about ME, my thinking, my self esteem. I am learning, that no two women look the same, I might not be a Sharon Stone look alike, (and your no Sylvester Stallone), but I have good qualities about myself.I am starting to accept the person I am becoming, can be thoughtful, kind, and considerate, (most of the time). Try to be kind in my words to people. My personality is a huge part of who I am. People keep telling me I have a gift, (especially within the fellowship), I can walk into a room, and misery walks out shortly after.. Just long enough to let people know, it can get better, if we work it. I am now an example and an inspiration to people, who saw me as a broken, frightened young woman. I laugh all the time, (even at myself), just try to be the best person I can be, and not offend anyone if I can help It. You have never really saw the best in me, because your very quiet, I tend to calm myself down round about you, but thats changing. I am becoming more comfortable around you.I have never used, who you were, or what mistakes you have made in your life against you, not onceI accepted you for who you are. I can see past your Illness to the person inside, and beyond it.. Some days its there for me to see, plain as daylol. In things you do or say, but as I am learning more and more, I let it go. Im not someone who keeps reminding you, You are an Alcoholic I have no reason to, you do enough of that for yourself. The way Im understanding it now, an Alcoholic (In sobriety ) is a Label a Stigma. No different from someone with a mental Illness, Depression, Anxiety, and I know its all connected somewhere. The Obsession and the compulsions. I have a lot of the Alcoholic Behaviours. As I work my programme, It is becoming very noticeable to me. But these things in myself can be changed, if I work hard at it, and I also have to want to change.I know you are not perfect, and have a whole lot of defects as I have myself. I no longer hold you up on a pedestal. Your human, you will make an arse of it from time to time, just like everyone else..I told you before, every time I try to talk to you, it never comes out right, one look into your eyes, and Im gone.lolSo, In working on myself, and through my feelings, I am doing this today.I dont know what you will get from this, if anything. But Im on a merry-go-round right now, and my recovery is going well, but the longer we have this uncertainty going on, it will eventually screw up both up again. We cannot live in a fantasy. And maybe thats what we have been doing. Friendship is the best thing in the world, if its worked on both sides. Can we work it for usI know how I feel, and Im being totally honest with you.??????LoveAlly Girl
This guy seems to always shy away from commitment, in fact he slams the door shut on it, and that is what you seem to need..commitment. You want some sort of clarification as to what the relationship is and want him to define it for you. Correct so far?
This has been going on off and on for 22 years? I'm thinkin that pretty much says it all. These may be the things YOU need, but considering the track record, he's probably not the person you'll ever get them from.
It's up to you to (1) accept things the way they are, (2) move on or (3) continue in this cycle..
Christy
__________________
If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I am going to repeat myself. It sounds to me like you want different things from this relationship than he does. It sounds like you want (no, almost as tho you are begging for something) that he cannot or does not want to give.
It also sounds from many of your previous posts that this is how it has pretty well always been.
You say you are working on ally, I agree with that. It is hard to take a friendship to an intimate level and then end that part of it and expect the friendship to remain intact. In my experiences this very seldom works. So, to continue the friendship people often continue the intimate part of it. To do otherwise very often means having nothing. Please correct me if I am wrong but it sure sounds as if you are very much obsessed with this person.
Okay, here is the part where I repeat myself....
This has just been my experience. It is only when I was healthy enough to not need a relationship that I was able to function in a healthy way in one.
So, I had to work through the upbringing, work through the abusive relationship, find out who I was (what my wants, needs, likes, dislikes were), be completely and totally content with being on my own etc. etc. etc. Only then was I able to not have a relationship rule who I was.
Only then could I function without the insanity of "Oh my god, you are not happy??? Then I am not happy. How can I change myself for you to make you and therefore me happy? What do I need to do to make you see how wonderful I am and make you want me?"
I adore my other half. I also have a very sound plan B in place and will probably end up using it within the next 12 months if things do not change. Will I be broken-hearted? Yes. But I will be okay because I am very okay with me.
As to what your other half may be thinking.....damned if I know. Questions like, how long in recovery? what is his self esteem like? what were previous relationship experiences etc etc etc would all play a picture. But he sure seems to be saying he does NOT want a commitment.
This doesn't sound like much help but its all I have.
Most important, take care of Ally!!!! Love having you here!!!!
__________________
Two things: 1. Recovery is a process, not an event.....and.... 2. You only get to go around once. Leave em laughing and make it worth your while
You know one thing I really had in common with the A is intense loneliness. This board helped me with that a great deal.
I can't comment on what is sane and not sane after all I deal with an A. I also deal with me and my own dysfunction. I am far from perfect. If you stick around here you will learn boundaries and detaching. They are not abstract qualities. I have to practice them all day long. I don't just go insane with the A there are plenty of other issues that really challenge me.
What do you want? I know it sounds like you want him to want what you want. I totally understand, sex is never just sex. And if he is treating you in this way really it is pretty crappy of him. That aloof-ness keeps you hanging on, trying harder, questioning how to bend, twist and change so that you get the response from him that you want. You don't need him or his love, you just want it really bad. I completly understand that. I have felt that obsession with my first love. Whatever he wanted me for, to do, I would have done it. Laid down my life for him at one point. I mean that is love right? Not when it's not reciprocated. And now with my ex, it's all about the other woman and how could he do this to me when I have done so much for him, etc. I dn't know Ally, Just try to protect your heart because I know the pain of heartbreak, it is intense and real and it has made me do some really stupid things. So, be careful and try to keep yourself open to all the people in your life, you never know when love might find you again.
(((Ally))) There were so many red flags in your post. I have to say that I agree with Christy & Lilms. The back and forth has gotta be drivin you crazy!! If you pull yourself away from this relationship - I think alot of your stress will begin to dissapate as you start to realize how important YOU are and I think it would give you some really GOOD retrospect.
You've shared some with us on this long standing relationship with this man and like the other's have said,it appears that he is content with the set up that you have at this time. If he was not content and wanted more do you think he would be discussing that with you? Is he open enough to take it to another level? You mentioned the similiar A behaviors you have felt within you. Some of those behaviors I realized for me were Codependent behaviors. I once had a relationship very similiar to this, not as long unfortunately. I desperately wanted more from him we were "perfect" I thought in our "unperfection". Both of us had our quirks and faults but we seemed to get along so well. I think about Forest Gump and Jenny "Like Peas and Carrots". That was me and this guy. He could not make the leap to committ though, too many what if's, his mother was influencing him, his past, etc. It about drove me crazy... I found each time we spent together I had this longing in my heart for more but knew he could never satisify this for me. I became very unhealthy and had to make a tough decision and walk away from the relationship all together.
It took me a year or so to get over that hurt it was deep love, even deeper than the love I have for my AH. See I think I associated my love for him with the pain I had because I couldn't have him the way I wanted. I just couldn't coast. This may not apply at all to your situation, but its completely up to what you can handle. If you can handle "coasting" with this relationship and go with the flow and be content with that, I'd say great. If you want more and find yourself longing for more, confront it, take the hits, and move on. 22 years is a long time, you have to decide if this is enough for you right now, let tomorrow work itself out. That kind of friendship, love, never really dies. I still love my friend probably always will, but I've grown up since then thank goodness and found a love more true than anything.... myself and my kids.
It will work out the way its suppose to Ally girl. Keep posting to us and let us know how things go.
Peace, Twinmom~
__________________
"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)
Hi Ally, I am so sorry you are going through the games. I just cut ties with someone just like your friend. I know what I want and I won't settle for anything less. I WANT to get married to a healthy person and there is nothing wrong with wanting to get married. I am worthy of being loved by someone who wants to commit to me. This scenario reminds me of The Runaway Bride. I don't know if you've seen the movie; however, Julia Roberts doesn't know what she wants, likes, dislikes. She based her entire existence around pleasing the men in her life because her father was an alcoholic, so she was trained to focus on her father's needs and never her own. She finally learns what she likes, dislikes, wants, and needs in her life. When I know what I want and don't settle I feel so much stronger and confident about myself. I hope you do what's best for you and your happiness.
I think you like the attention he gives you (my opinion, I've been there), Maybe the thrill of the game? If you were ever going to get the man you want in him you would probably still be unhappy, it's a cycle. If things are not going good now and are not normal then they probably are not ever going to be normal. He's not changing his ways. Have you ever read that book "he's just not into you"....I suggest reading it. I'd hate to see you waste years and years on someone who doesn't give you what you deserve. Good luck.
Ally, honestly, I would not have him read this. I would really doubt he would understand what you are trying to say.
Men do not think the same way as women. They probably do not question what makes them do what they do. They just do it. maybe it is hormones...
But sadly a lot of alcoholism is mental illness. That same old we cannot rationalize insanity. He is in recovery, from my experience, the AH or boyfriend whatever, they do not know themselves. In recovery we hope they will have some things they will get a light bulb moment about.
But Ally they are very ill with a disease. My experience with my A, when he was in a very strong recovery program, was to accept him as he was, to take things as they came and live MY life. Not question where I belonged or why he did what he did.
He and I, like you have been involved since we were very young. We went thru births, deaths, the war, herion, alcohol, sobriety with program. I kept working full time, went to college.
When he came back sober on program, It was a day to day thing. Glad when he was there, enjoyed my space.
After a year or two, we got married. Marriage solidifies spell? It answers all the questions. At least it did for us, well at least when he was on his program.
I am not sure I am even saying anything. But I tell ya girl, I remember writing stuff just like your post. I am glad you did, becuz ya gotta get it out.
I also remember sending one to A, a long time ago. Ya know what he said about it? He said,"you gotta not watch sad movies when you are writing to me." sigh. lol I was watching one...
A womans head lights up in a million places when a word like picnic is said, We are thinking blanket plates, ants, basket, lemonade, deviled eggs, salad, pop, pillows and if it will rain and should I bring an umbrella? on and on.
A guys brain, when he hears picnic lights up in ten places. He may think, do I have enough gas to get there, and when will we come home.
Most men do not know if the milk is all gone or if there is a any bread left. We know we have one more roll of toilet paper, tape is in the left drawer, we need some dish soap, etc etc.
Emotions?? don't even go there. lol
well anyway you are on a roller coaster/ merry go round... get off or what someone said to me once on here, "drop the rock," lighten up I guess. love,debilyn
Well I certainly didn't have enough time to read the whole thing, as a matter of fact the part that I read, felt like I shouldn't be reading it. I'm very glad that you were able to get your feelings out and down on "paper". Sometimes letters are strictly for us and not for the addressee to see.
Have you ever heard of the book "He's just not that into you" It may be a helpful read.
((((Ally Girl))) so glad to hear from you, I was hoping you were ok. As for this relationship stuff, I've been simialr places with another, and for me I had to let go.. Someone said to me "If you love something ,set it free, If it comes back it's yours, if it doesn't it isn't meant to be". I know it probobally sounds redundant,but for me until I learn what I'm supposed to learn from a situation ,I keep goin back for more. Trust that you are where you are for a reason. Right where hp intends you to be..when it feels like it's old already,the switch will flip and the message will be crystal clear. Only God knows what and when that will be. Until then chica,keep doin the next best thing you know to do for you ,and take care of yourself. Love you~ Carla
__________________
It works if you work it , so work it YOU'RE worth it <3
Ally needs to decide if Ally wants what this relationship has put on the table --- not what this relationship can POTENTIALLY be --- but rather, what it is right now. Addiction is a funny thing; the way our As cannot stop patterns of behavior; and WE ARE PRONE TO THE SAME BEHAVIOR! Change. I needed to change my thinking, it had become distorted. My depiction of what healthy means needed to be reinvented in my mind.
Here's a thought:
-The Big Book says, "Ask them to stop drinking for 6 months. If they can and do, they probably don't have a problem."
-Why shouldn't we do the same ---- with intimate relationships? Why shouldn't we take 6 months (Al Anon suggests 1 year) and reprogram how we think and act? That will give us time to work the program and take care of ourselves. How can we get better at relations if we don't give ourselves time to lay down a strong foundation of core self values?
As always, take what you like and leave the rest.
Love you, Bean cj
__________________
time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. 22 years and the same results. Working the program can return us to sanity.
It took my AH 20+ years to realize that we finally wanted to be together. Having said that, there was a time and place that I didn't see him for close to 7 years. Hadn't a clue where he was or what he was doing. I moved on to other relationships. Sometimes letting someone go, for your benefit is the best thing. Why go through all this angst over and over again? You can't force something that isn't meant to be. As hubby always reminds me, you can have all the great dates, and sex you want, but if you can't turn to that person and really talk to them at the end of the day, what's the point?
Love and blessings to you.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
__________________
It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
hi, I just read this thought today in "Codependent No More" mediations... and it was something to the effect that when we initiate a relationship, we should be attarcted to the person as they are and not fall in love with their potential or the hope that he/she will be different if only... I wish I had heard these words years and years ago. Ours has been a long hard struggle. I don't know if love is supposed to be that way... it always makes me wonder. I think there are alot of women like me out there... who wanted so much to be with someone and get married, that we fell in love with the potential and not the actual person in front of us. I wonder why so many second marriages seem so much happier... maybe it's because the partners have been through that phase of learning about relationships -- be attracted to the person who is before you, not the person you want/hope him/her to be.
Another thought from this reading that struck me was that the issue of falling in love with the potential or hope of what that special someone could be for me... was that it was about me. ("oh dear Lord!!... again???!!" I thought!). Yup... it was about me care taking... it's about meeting others' needs and not my own. It was my way of making him into the person I wanted him to be. Though I loudly screamed at my AH "You're not meeting my needs!" I ignored the huge red flags that he was waving. All my efforts at care taking usually backfired and I ended up feeling resentment and empty. I wasn't humble enough or strong enough on my own two feet to let go of him for who he really was and let go of want I wanted him to be.
Yes, we're married, two kids, the house. Married almost 12 years. For the fiirst 8 years, he drank and used until we almost got divorced. To be honest, unhappy 8 years. The next two years were hell as he got clean and sober and started sorting through all his baggage (via sponsorship, counseling, NA mtgs). The 11th year was the best yet, when we both worked our programs and got further along in recovery... but recently, while he hasn't used, he's not practicing his program, not going to meetings, not in touch with his sponsor. Me, I'm crawling back to al-anon; honestly, I let it slip. We've been having problems again. That's why I'm back here.
Anyway, I don't have any sage advice, just my experience... I hope you find the wisdom you're looking for and the direction your HP wants you to go toward. Peace be with you, Lee Ann
