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I am new to this board and have attended f2f meetings for about 2 months now, but I haven't had to courage to talk about this aspect in that setting. From what I have read, infidelity is not an uncommon issue with the A. The woman my AH had an affair with is also is an A and his relationship with her was absolutely an addiction. After rehab, I told my AH that if he even spoke with her again he would have to move out. Well, it happened, and he has been out of the house for about two weeks now. As far as I know, he is a "dry drunk" in relation to the alcohol/drugs. He went to AA almost everyday for about 50+ days, then cut it down to maybe one time per week (this started when I told him to leave), and he is "too busy" to meet with his sponsor. He informed me that he doesn't want to be defined as an alcoholic. Isn't it too late for that? I feel a relapse into the drinking is just a matter of time. All along, the alcohol hasn't been nearly as scary or heartbreaking to me as the other woman has been. What makes the situation even more difficult is that we live in a small town and this is someone in our extended social circle and someone I have to see all the time. I even have to see her mom (she doesn't recognize me) at Al-anon meetings, and they are out of town! Ugh! Is he still talking to her? I don't know. I definately know he started up again immediately after he moved out and I don't know if things have changed. I do know that he has been acting kinder in the past week and is heart seems softer, but I've learned not to assume anything. I am just wondering if any of you have battled the "other woman" along with the A and if you can give me any words of wisdom to help ease the pain. Part of me just wants to divorce and get it over with, because regardless of what happens I don't know that I will ever be able to let it go. Any words of wisdom out there? I'm open....
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Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
Welcome lou, yes you are at the right place. We talk about everything here.
Hon being an adulterer is not part of his disease. Not all A's cheat. He is a cheater. There are many A's who are hit upon drunk or sober and will not cheat. They are only interested in their drug of choice, not to get layed.
Some A's like to drive fast when they are drunk, not becuz they are A's just becuz they like to drive fast.
If my A cheated, I would be done. That would be that. However I have known him all my life,even when he was in hi school, he was never a cheat. Not his style. But there were guys who did cheat,drunk or not.
For me nothing would ease the pain until my love for him changed if he cheated. I would not take him back. no way. once a cheater always a cheater, has always been a cheater.
I would NEVER cheat. I don't care what happened, I won't. Part is morally, part is scripturally.
I do know the pain however. Not from cheating, but humiliation, and realization of what the A disease can do to us.
My serenity comes from years of alanon, years of putting the skills to work in my life, now are my life.
For you not to hurt, only you know how. Do for you what you need. Do you like to garden? Raise puppies, kittens? Decorate, go thriftshopping? whatever. Do for you what heals you. Watch funny movies, read upbeat books. Cry when you need to.
Being in a small town is very hard. My A and I had moved a bit away from my small city. I stayed out here. Is painful to go to that city now.
I guess in my experience it is changing things for me. I don't even have the same couch. When I knew it was done, I had to put things away, throw things away. I still love him, but I know for sure I will never get to live with my husband again. He is dead. The person in that body is NOT my husband.
Broken hearts take a long time to mend, and constant reminders are like digging up the wound as it tries to heal.
I hope you keep coming back. Welcome Lou. love,debilyn
Hearing this topic always touches my heart. My ah cheated also. When I found out I was so devestated I swear I almost died. I went into a severe depression. I did get on meds and eventually got better. To this day, I will tell you I can deal with or detatch from the alcohol and drugs and all that goes along with it. But when it comes to other women, that is the absolute most devestating thing that has happened to me. When he went to rehab his councilor causaully mentioned that he was a sex addict also. I don't think my ah (now my ex ah) ever even gave that any consideration. But I heard it loud and clear. I went back after the first affair, after the second affair and left when he relapsed on drugs. I too, live in a small village and have to drive by the other woman's house. I will tell you that f2f meetings helped the most. When I would bring it up I was always shocked at how many other people have delt with the exact same thing. Have felt the same way as me. I don't know if it's just coincidence that so many people in alanon have the same experience when it comes to the a's having a problem with monogamy.I believe that a's are sick so they have no morals and do whatever.you might want to bring it up at a meeting.You will be suprised,,,,
I can only give you my situation. My Ah the month before we were supposed to be married had sex with his realtor...in turn, she got pg. I have never forgotten, I have forgiven him but if I would NOT have been already pg myself I would have left him. I did not want to have a baby and be alone. Cheaters CAN change I know that but you will NEVER trust him again, it's gone for good. My personal opinion is this....if you do not have children with this man I would probably try a seperation and get counseling and once your strong again then go from there. You may find you are so much better without him. Look at it like this.........do you love him enough to die for him? What if he gave you HIV? Is it worth it? That's what scared the heck out of me. You are in my prayers tonight sweetheart. HUGS.
I know this must hurt. I don't think that my AHsober actually had an affair but he had emotional affairs. Ouch! We live in a very small town and work for the same company. He moved to another town but we still have company meetings together. Ouch again. Everybody treats him like a big hero. How's golf? Boy we are really glad to have him over here. Why don't we ever see you? At first I was really embarassed and felt like a real failure in my marriage. But now I just tell the truth when I feel it is appropriate and tell people it is none of their business when I think it is appropriate. I am learning to accept reality. Hold my head up high. And let him take responsibility for what he has created.
My AH also cheated and that was the last straw for me. Yes he suffers a disease but if he had cancer and cheated I would also have left. My counselor explained it to me this way...that alcoholics don't have boundries and if two people who don't have boundries (in AA or treatment) form a friendship that can be trouble. It makes sense to me and once again showed me that I didn't cause it nor can I cure it. Blessings to you.
When my husband was active, I felt like the beer was his mistress. To my knowledge, he never cheated on me. When we were separated and I'd filed for divorce, I did get involved with another man. This was after no intimacy for two years.
We survived that situation. He got sober and we remarried.
First I would like to welcome you to Mip....I have not had any experience of this.. But I can identify with the A getting into something with another A, I have watched a friend do it..And Yes he said it was an obsession, Lust, nothing else.... ( A quick fix he called it).
Just remember in your small town..YOU have done nothing wrong, nothing to be ashamed about.
Keep your head held high..."Let no-one judge you"..
Keep posting..we also have a chatroom, come join us..
To me, it is definitely an aspect of his addictive personality. It was very clear to me that the affair that I know about, which happened after he sobered up, was just another attempt to avoid facing reality, to avoid being a fully functioning, fully *there* grownup. Everything was the same, except in this case the drug of choice was another woman (women). Maybe I'm fooling myself about this, but this was an attitude I found I had to have, in order to stay married to him.
He broke that off, but still kept in contact with (random and unknown) women online, for a bit. The second time I caught him at that, I realized that I had to establish some boundaries, or this would just keep happening. I put my foot down hard, made it very clear that this was a complete deal breaker for me. No more forgiving, no more "well, OK, if you are really sorry", just no more. I went into the open with this, spoke about it at f2f (we are also in a very small town, many of the people in AA have family members going to alanon ), used his drug and alcohol counselor as my counselor for a while. Actually, I think that is what did it - the fact that men he respected and wanted to respect him knew about his behaviour, and would continue to know about it, was the factor that gave him the strength to combat it.
For myself, alanon helped me get past it, in conjunction with counseling - both with the AADAC man, and with a woman. I grew a backbone, a bit, and made some changes in asking for what I needed, and not just taking everything he wanted to dish out. I also gained some detachement. Came to realize that what really mattered to me was that he treated me lovingly and with respect. That when he was with me, I had his attention and affection. That what he did when he was not with me was not really any of my business, but that I had the right to demand to be treated well when he was. And, funny, that change in my attitude was just about all that was needed in order to get a change in his behaviour - as soon as I started really expecting respect, I got some.
It's now about 2 1/2 years later, and we are not perfectly healed from this, but we are OK. He is now very sick with cancer and not expected to live to the end of the year, so the whole thing is moot, I guess. I realize that if he had not gotten sick, he would probably have cheated on me again at some point. If that happened, I would be able to leave him, without too much agony. But I did not live in dread of it happening. In many ways it is like the way I feel about his drinking - an alcoholic may relapse, in fact he probably will, as relapse is an aspect of this disease. If it happened, it would have saddened me, but it would not destroy me. My survival and my happiness are not longer pinned to his actions. I love him but I do not need him.
I don't know how helpful all this is, but this is how it was with me.
Welcome to Miracles in Progress, so glad you found us!
I went through this same thing with my ex wife.
I guess my take on it is that yes the infidelity is part of their disease. Because of the emptiness they have inside, the lack of self esteem, the guilt....the inability to cope with reality...they turn to outside sources to drown out the world around them that they cannot deal with face to face.
Whether they turn to alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling, work, it is all about not dealing with their lives "as is".
I too was absolutely devasted when I found out my wife had been cheating on me. It was the single most painful thing I have ever experienced. I truly believe that for me her death would have been easier for me to accept than her betrayal. And a lot of that was because I made it about me. That somehow I wasnt good enough, handsome enough, good enough lover, good enough husband and that THAT was the reason she was cheating on me.
After 3 years of al-anon, I now know better. I am enough. I am a beautiful person. Her cheating was not about me. It was about her and her issues.
When I first found out, I forgave her (so to speak...as much as an untreated co-dependent knows the meaning of forgiveness ) and we remained together for another year or so. But nothing was ever the same for me again after that. I still loved her. But it did not trust her anymore. The absolute trust (or was it just delusion) that I had placed in her was gone forever.
Still, she is the one, after a few months in AA that decided to split up, not me. I was willing to continue to try to work on things..I started going to al-anon. But she was not willing.
HP did for me what I could not do for myself.
Whether or not you will ever be able to let go of the situation, I cannot say. Some do so, some do not.
Keep going to your meetings and pray about things.
I dont' know if you know much about love addiction. Pia Melody has a wonderful book on it. I know reading how the love avoidant interacts with the love addict is very helpful for me. I do not think the A has ever cheated on me. I know he has had feelings for others. He told me he was very angry at a friend of his who chatted up some barmaid he knew. He was livid that they went out together. Since he was supposedly committed to me and living with me that was certainly a form of infidelity.
The A I lived with did a lot of stuff of putting others before me. If it wasn't his mother it was a friend, it was a situation something. i grew very very angry over these betrayals. Now like others here I see it all as his inabilty to deal with reality.
I had an incredible conviction I could control the A. I did not have boundaries. These days I live eat sleep boundaries. I watch them very carefully. If I am around those who dont' have them I move away. I used to move forward now move back.
I do think occasionally about whether the A has found someone else. I doubt he has but he certainly has been apart from me for a while. I know with his disease it would just be imminent disaster.
I do feel for you. I know what it is to be betrayed. I feel tremendously betrayed and alone after the A's tricks. I also feel like I am on the other side. I have almost two years of Al anon under my belt and i understand my codpendency very well.
Infidelity...a real subject for recovery this one is. There was lots of it within the time period I was married to my alcoholic wife. I was a part of it when I took the time to do an honest inventory. Before the inventory...I of course held this subject as one of the many I tried to hold over her head. When I considered that in the beginning I was one of the "Tom, Dick, and Harrys...add the Jerry to the list" I started holding myself accountable to the relationship. I am no longer married to the Alcoholic. I have remarried and have been accused of infidelity during my present marriage. I have not been but have been accused of it more than several times by my wife whose past Alcoholic husband cheated on her. This is a consequence of my choice of partner and her background. Fear is a powerful emotion and can absolutely damage a relationship if I give into it. False Evidence Appearing Real. The opposite of fear is faith. For a time now my present wife has been practicing faith instead of fear in our relationship. The more she practices faith, the less fear she has of her past being her present. I do not protect her from the opportunities where fear might arise. I speak honestly of the positive characteristics of the other women in recovery and stand with her while she may or may not react in fear. I feel for her. I know what it feels like because I went thru it with my alcoholic.
Thank you all for your welcome and thoughtful replies. It seems the answer lies in prayer, al-anon, personal counseling and the passage of time, but I just want the pain to be over! Like some of you, I also see infideilty as part of the disease and a way to escape reality. My AH's affair with an A employee started as emotional, with hours spent talking and feeling sorry for themselves and each other, all while building the other up (something all the sober people in thier lives weren't doing). My AH was/is a workaholic too so there was plenty of time. He definately was and still is unable to accept life "as is".
I have known my AH since I was 18 and we've been married for almost 17 years. We really grew up together, through college, professional school, 3 children, and buying and building a business. He has a prominent position in our community and it all looks so "perfect" from the outside. A woman once told me that her husband said my AH was the kind of guy a dad wants his daughter to marry. Ha! Although I know I did not cause his alcoholism or infidelity, I certainly did not help it. I came into our marriage with some unfinished emotional baggage (though I really didn't know it). My parents died when I was 7yrs and 11yrs and I was not allowed to grieve nor did I get any counseling. I ended up with some serious abandonment/fear of intimacy issues. You know the saying, "what you fear you create"? Well, I am the poster girl for that. I gave my husband a sexless marriage and now I am paying the consequences, big time. I saw it coming, but for so long was too scared and embarrassed to go get help. When I finally did, it was too late. The guilt and woulda, coulda, shouldas are overwhelming.
So, I have no idea what he is doing now, and I am forced to view the infidelity in the same way as the alcoholism, which is that I can't control it. I have tried to convince him how crazy she is (she really is!), all to no avail, and it isn't that he doesn't know right from wrong... I believe I have been enabling him on all fronts by not speaking of his alcoholism or affair to others, especially her husband and our couple friends. However, while I think going public could possibly change his behavior, the cost would be way too high. First and foremost, our children are suffering enough without knowing "everything", and in this small town they would. Second, such information could definately have a negative effect on our business. Both are too precious to tamper with right now, and ultimately, whatever happens, I think it will be best if he gets "there" on his own volition, wherever "there" may be. Also, though hard to admit, there is so much embarrassment, humiliation, and shame attached and that is just too much for me to deal with.
Thank you all for your kind words and understanding. I will continue to go to al-anon and work on giving it up to God. Boundries, faith, forgiveness... I hope to get there. Not sure if I am ready to initiate this topic at a f2f meeting just yet, but if the topic comes up, I may just join in.
Blessings,
Lou
__________________
Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
Aack... sorry that post ended up so small. Here is again, without the need of a magnifying glass to see it....
Thank you all for your welcome and thoughtful replies. It seems the answer lies in prayer, al-anon, personal counseling and the passage of time, but I just want the pain to be over! Like some of you, I also see infideilty as part of the disease and a way to escape reality. My AHsober's affair with an A employee started as emotional, with hours spent talking and feeling sorry for themselves and each other, all while building the other up (something all the sober people in thier lives weren't doing). My AH was/is a workaholic too so there was plenty of time. He definately was and still is unable to accept life "as is".
I have known my AHsober since I was 18 and we've been married for almost 17 years. We really grew up together, through college, professional school, 3 children, and buying and building a business. He has a prominent position in our community and it all looks so "perfect" from the outside. A woman once told me that her husband said my husband was the kind of guy a dad wants his daughter to marry. Ha! Although I know I did not cause his alcoholism or infidelity, I certainly did not help it. I came into our marriage with some unfinished emotional baggage (though I really didn't know it). My parents died when I was 7yrs and 11yrs and I was not allowed to grieve nor did I get any counseling. I ended up with some serious abandonment/fear of intimacy issues. You know the saying, "what you fear you create"? Well, I am the poster girl for that. I gave my husband a sexless marriage and now I am paying the consequences, big time. I saw it coming, but for so long was too scared and embarrassed to go get help. When I finally did, it was too late. The guilt and woulda, coulda, shouldas are overwhelming.
So, I have no idea what he is doing now, and I am forced to view the infidelity in the same way as the alcoholism, which is that I can't control it. I have tried to convince him how crazy she is (she really is!), all to no avail, and it isn't that he doesn't know right from wrong... I believe I have been enabling him on all fronts by not speaking of his alcoholism or affair to others, especially her husband and our couple friends. However, while I think going public could possibly change his behavior, the cost would be way too high. First and foremost, our children are suffering enough without knowing "everything", and in this small town they would. Second, such information could definately have a negative effect on our business. Both are too precious to tamper with right now, and ultimately, whatever happens, I think it will be best if he gets "there" on his own volition, wherever "there" may be. Also, though hard to admit, there is so much embarrassment, humiliation, and shame attached and that is just too much for me to deal with.
Thank you all for your kind words and understanding. I will continue to go to al-anon and work on giving it up to God. Boundries, faith, forgiveness... I hope to get there. Not sure if I am ready to initiate this topic at a f2f meeting just yet, but if the topic comes up, I may just join in.
Blessings,
Lou
__________________
Every new day begins with new possibilities. It's up to us to fill it with the things that move us toward progress and peace. ~ Ronald Reagan~
Sometimes what you want to do has to fail, so you won't ~Marguerite Bro~
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