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Post Info TOPIC: Codependence


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Codependence


Every thursday, my husband's rehab has a family group night.  They always have a different topic, and last night's was codependence.  Some of the traits of codependence are: The need to always take care of an A; to take the world on your shoulders the protect them; low self esteem; feeling that somehow you can control their drinking or help them stop; feelings of shame or guilt that somehow you helped contribute to their drinking/using, etc.

As I was listening to them describe codependence I realized that I myself am definitely not codependent.  I have no problem putting blame where blame is due.  I feel and always felt good about myself and I knew that I didn't make him drink.  I know that you can be codependent and an enabler, or you can simply be an enabler without being codependent.  I don't think I'm either.  I never made it easy for him to drink.  If anything, I made it more difficult (i.e. throwing out bottles, filling up bottles with water.).

I was wondering whether codependence is more common or more uncommon among the rest of you.  Do you think you run a greater risk of being codependent if you grew up in an alcoholic home as well?  I didn't, so maybe that is why I feel this way.

I'd love to hear your responses.



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(((Sash)))

Well codependency is a great topic.  I for one hated to admit that I was a codependent.  When I finally came to the realization and accepted it, I didn't feel relief I felt pain.  I didn't want to be codependent no more than my AH wanted to be an A.  It is my understanding that a dependent personality type (an A) will seek out the co-dependent personality type.  Why? Because both the A and the codependent get their needs met.  They A is taken care of, he/she drinks and the codependent cleans up the messes they create.  It is rescuing and enabling that allows the A to continue his/her destructive behavior.  For me I got my need of being needed met.  The need to caretake because for me I thought that was how you get someone to love you.  Its an unhealthy relationship.  When I really started working the program, that's when I took "my hands off" of my AH.  I didn't get in the way of his drinking and using because all it did was cause fights and problems.  In order for him to get so sick and disgusted with his behavior and disease he needed to continue on his path.  Well, unfortunately that ended with him getting completely intoxicated, having a black out moment (I'm sure), taking my van and crashing it causing 5K worth of damage.  That was my bottom.  He is now miserable living in a half way house, but I'm safe today and that is good. He is sober too almost 3 weeks.  I do believe there are very different family dynamics that cause codependent/dependent relationships.

  I am not a child of A'ism, but the daughter of a very verbally abusive and intolerant man.  It caused alot of the same belief patterns as A'ism does for many and I began living in codependency. 

Hope some of this helps, take what you like and have a peaceful day,
Twinmom~


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"The people who don't mind matter and the people who mind, don't matter". (Dr. Seuss)


~*Service Worker*~

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Sash!  Good for you!   Good for us!  I am neither codependent, nor am I an enabler.  But...psssst...filling liquor bottles with water, and searching them so that you can toss them out doesn't have any  effect on the alcoholic.  He goes and buys another.   Wasting time doing that...

I am not in denial  about being neither codependent nor an enabler.  So don't a single one of you suggest that to either of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL!  Diva

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My opinion is that the disease of alcoholism/addiction affects many people in many ways.

Some become addicted
Some become codependent
Some become enablers
Some become "dry drunks"
Some become people pleasers
Some become control-freaks
Some become recluses
Some become the "center of attention"
Some become ___________

You fill in the blank - Our common bond is that we have all BEEN AFFECTED or ARE BEING AFFECTED by the disease of alcoholism/addiction. For me, it doesn't matter how it affected you, it matters more the way you are learning to recovery from those affects.

But - that's just me - And psst - I'm with Diva doing stuff with the liquor bottles is like taking a cup of water out of the ocean - There's plenty more where that came from.

Take what you like & leave the rest.

Rita


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And some are well-adjusted individuals with a high self-esteem, a sense of humor,  and a sound and sane mind.  Not everyone associated with an alcoholic is "as sick as they are."  

Diva



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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata


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Ha! I know filling the bottles with water and throwing out stashes doesn't work. It just made me feel better to know I made his drinking a little more difficult for him. (And maybe I was trying to annoy him too - lol). You would be surprised, those little jabs at him did make me feel better at that moment.

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Symptoms of codependence are controlling behavior, distrust, perfectionism, avoidance of feelings, problems with intimacy, excessive caretaking, hypervigilance or physical illness related to stress. Codependence is often accompanied by depression, as the codependent person succumbs to feelings of frustration or sadness over his or her inability to improve the situation.

Codependence can also be a set of maladaptive, compulsive behaviors learned by family members in order to survive in a family which is experiencing great emotional pain and stress caused, for example, by a family member's alcoholism or other addiction, sexual or other abuse within the family, a family member's chronic illness, or forces external to the family, such as poverty.

Codependency advocates claim that a codependent may feel shame about, or try to change, his or her most private thoughts and feelings if they conflict with those of another person. An example would be a wife making excuses for her husband's excessive drinking and perhaps running interference for him by calling in sick for him when he is hung over. Such behaviors, which may well lessen conflict and ease tension within the family in the short term, are counterproductive in the long term, since, in this case, the wife is actually supporting ("enabling") the husband's drinking behavior. So, sometimes, the codependent is referred to as an "enabler." It is also worth noting that since the wife in this case is dependent on the husband's alcoholic behavior, she may actually feel disturbed, disoriented or threatened if she sees clearly that he is emerging from his dependence; the threat to her position as a confidante and needed loved one might lead her unconsciously to resist the husband's steps towards recovery. Similarly, a codependent parent might resist his or her child's steps toward independence; whether early or late in life.

Codependent people have a greater tendency to enter into relationships with people who are emotionally unavailable or needy. The codependent tries to control a relationship without directly identifying and addressing his or her own needs and desires. This invariably means that codependents set themselves up for continued unfulfillment. Codependents always feel that they are acting in another person's best interest, making it difficult for them to see the controlling nature of their own behavior.

Codependency - A Matter of Control Codependency, for others, doesn't express itself in a desire to control, but instead, in the need to be controlled by others. Because it is nearly impossible for Codependents to say "no" to people, they may find themselves the victims in physically and emotionally abusive relationships. They believe that if they can be good enough, or loving enough, they can change the other person's behavior. They sometimes blame themselves for the abusive behavior: "If only I had not forgotten to do the dishes, he would not have had to hit me."

 This is co dependency according to Wikipedia. Take what you like and leave the rest.
  I think, in my own  opinion, the "family night" was trying to suggest that it's helpful to see that recovery is a part of a greater whole. Rather than simply dismissing it as "it's his problem" each person takes care of their own problem and looks for their own solutions.
 I would also be careful of the words "blame." Blame implies a sense of guilt and shame and a desire for revenge, in my experience, or at least a desire for some sort of amends to be made. I recall in C2C there's a reading that goes "I had to drop the word 'blame' from my vocabulary." Accountability implies responsibility, at least to me.

 I also think that, at least for some of us, we don't need al anon. Not everyone who finds themselves in dysfunctional systems needs assistence. Or, alternatively, they don't need it asl long as others. I can see myself utilizing this program on a long term basis. I've seen others use this program for 6, 8, 9 months. They get what they need, they leave. You catch up with them, 6, 8, 9 months later. They are GREAT. They are JUST FINE in EVERY sense of the word. They GENUINELY do NOT need a lifetime membership to this program, and they tell you "if something comes up, I'll be back, I promise." They have the self esteem and mental health to know that teh door is always open. Just because al anon was the solution that got me on the ground it doesn't give me the right to expect that it's the 1 and only solution for every one.

 And as for codependency as a whole? I know I HAVE the behaviors; but so long as I WATCH MYSELF FOR the behaviors, I don't need to PRACTICE the behaviors.



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"I also think that, at least for some of us, we don't need al anon. Not everyone who finds themselves in dysfunctional systems needs assistence. Or, alternatively, they don't need it asl long as others. I can see myself utilizing this program on a long term basis. I've seen others use this program for 6, 8, 9 months. They get what they need, they leave. You catch up with them, 6, 8, 9 months later. They are GREAT. They are JUST FINE in EVERY sense of the word. They GENUINELY do NOT need a lifetime membership to this program, and they tell you "if something comes up, I'll be back, I promise." They have the self esteem and mental health to know that teh door is always open. Just because al anon was the solution that got me on the ground it doesn't give me the right to expect that it's the 1 and only solution for every one."

You said a lot in that paragraph Tiger, and I couldn't agree with you more.  But, that does not necessarily mean I finish with AlAnon because I do not need it.  Those of us who are stronger can be of invaluable assistance to others.  I think helping others is an integral part of the program.  And....let my A go on a binge, and I come right back here asking for help too.  SO AlAnon serves its purpose for all of us here, even if that purpose is served in different ways.

Best wishes,

Diva

Diva


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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata


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For me, it has always been almost as if I *learned* to be codependent - this is the behaviour that he seemed to want from me, and so I provided it. Just doing my wifely duty. 
Deep down inside, my true feelings have always been closer to detachment than to obsession, but I felt that that was not appropriate for a wife, so MADE myself be crazy instead.

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I am getting better, and moving along in my recovery, but definitely WAS codependant, at least to some degree.  As I reflect on all that I have learned, and how far I have grown in these past ten years, I am able to understand and comprehend how sick I had become, living in and around the active alcoholism of my wife at the time.  I had NO idea how much is was affecting me, and would have sworn up and down that I was healthy and sane.  I remember talking to a counselor at one of her treatment centers, and I felt near the end of my rope, tired of the disappointments, tired of taking the world onto my shoulders, etc., etc - I told the counselor about the weight of two young kids at home, nominally without a mother to take care of them, and it felt like I had THREE kids at home (my two, plus my A-wife).  He asked me - "why do you think all three of them are MY responsibility" - I answered "Somebody has to, and they need some sanity in here", to which he responded "who says you are sane?".

That was one of those real "aha" moments for me, because to be very honest, I was not acting in a very sane manner during that period.  I don't use codependency as an excuse or a cop-out, but more of a reflection of my reality.  I was certainly codependant, and that realization helped me get up off my butt and improving and correcting the only person I am capable of working on..... ME.

Codependency is one of those words that frighten a lot of people, in my opinion, as there is obviously a very fine line between the definition of being codependant, versus the definition of simply being a warm, loving, and caring human being.  To me, the "kicker" is when you add the line of "to your own detriment" as in....  "taking care of another's needs and sacrificing your own needs to your own detriment"....  This is where I was able to see this in myself and my actions, and take back control of my own life.

I was, truthfully, as "sick as the alcoholic" (or damn close, lol), but I chose to overcome this, get better, and life is a lot better today than it was five years ago.

Take care
Tom

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