Cross-Talk - Al-Anon Family Group

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

Cross-Talk

Friendofyours · ~*Service Worker*~

HUH?

SLS · Senior Member

I'm not sure that the concept of "cross-talk" applies to message boards. It does seem to be common courtesy not to "hijack" a thread, i.e., jumping in the middle of a thread and taking it over with your own issues instead of just starting your own thread.

Cross-talk in f2f meetings occurs, in my experience, when members interrupt a share, or respond directly to someone's share so that there is more of a "conversation" taking place instead of everyone sharing they E, S & H for others to hear whatever it is that they need to hear during the meeting.

I think that some of your share relates to a thread that was on the board sometime in the past few months (and I think ultimately removed or locked if I recall correctly) in which the discussion related to the differences between giving advise vs. offering our E, S & H as Al-Anon suggests so as to allow each of us to come to our own decisions (with the help of our HP) about what we should do or not do.

That being said, I am not really up to renewing that discussion, however, others may wish to do so. smile

Thank you for sharing.

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

This post of mine is not in response to any earlier thread. The topic had been on my mind for a few days, and I needed to share about it.

Take what you want and leave the rest.
Yours in recovery
cj

rtexas · ~*Service Worker*~

Good to hear from you CJ. Crosstalk in a meeting to me, is distracting from the person who is sharing... it throws off their rythem and train of thought sometimes.

Online however... for me, I can read or not read any particular post or response. Personally, I read 'em all - that is just my way. Some I agree with, and some I don't. To me it doesn't take away from the person who shared. I appreciate everyone's opinion even if I don't happen to agree.

I guess it would be different to me if anyone was calling out the other... or being a online neusense (sp?). I honestly don't see that here. I am a car guy, and there are some online boards for us motorheads. There are some guys on there, that just argue with everyone... disagree with everyone reguardless of the topic. That - I really don't like.

I guess what I am saying is, it's good you put your question out there for people to ponder, and my opinion is that people here are in many varied stages of recovery. If you see particular things of concearn, maybe pm one of the moderators and get their opinion of it. They could lend a helping hand if someone is overstepping.

Be interesting to hear what others have to say. I am glad you are here!

Take care of you!

SLS · Senior Member

Sorry, Cj. I didn't mean to imply that your share wqas in response to an earlier thread. I just remembered a prior discussion that addressed some of your thoughts.

ally · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((((((((((Cj)))))))))))))))

Well, I guess crosstalk in meetings, f2f or online is something I don't like either. As for the message board..Well as you said,"take what you like".. I sometimes feel there are replies to a post that I can get in a strop over.....But I think as you know, we are all at different stages in the programme....

Sometimes people just vent...Maybe they dont always check before they hit that button.....

But Hey, We arn't "Perfect"....lol (Yet)

Always glad of your input to the board.....

You have great knowledge of the programme, and good E.S & S.

Love You

(((((Ally Hen))))))

Katy · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi CJ,

I think I am guilty of hearing something someone has written and it triggers something off in me, and I know I do it, maybe to ask a question related indirectly to someone elses post, I'm quite new here, so not quite sure what's the right way to go about things as yet, don't know if to start a new thread every time in relation to someone elses, or relpy to theirs and just add my ten peneth.
I do think to myself sometimes it looks like's it's all about me, and yet for me the magic of this programme works just like that, something somebody says something somebody else writes, gives me my answers.
I do ask questions too and I know I should just wait and listen, but I see people at all stages of recovery on here, and sometimes when you've been beating yourself up on a regular basis and getting nowhere just a little word can help no end, and for me sometimes thats just what I need to do.
I belive too that this programme works in such a way that it is able to adapt to everyones needs, there isn't a right or wrong way.

Katy
x

Rita G · ~*Service Worker*~

CJ,

I think "Crosstalk" is a great topic for discussion. For me, my understanding of crosstalk is not just about f2f meetings. It's about my entire recovery. It is also not just about being quiet when someelse is sharing, it is about respecting everyone's path to recovery.

It's about when I hear a person that maybe fairly new to the group say or post things like "I told my AH I was going to stand outside and make sure he goes to that AA meeting. And when we get home, together we are pouring out all the booze"

The warning flags, signals, red lights are blasting in my head - I want to immediately blurt out to that newcomer just how much harm that could be causing their recovery and the AH's recovery.

No Crosstalk is a gentle reminder that I really don't have the to tell her what to do, but I can share that it is been my experience that forcing someone to attend a meeting or pour out liquor has really not benefited anyone in recovery. I can encourage her to keep coming back and try to focus on herself. Let her have the dignity to discover thru the program what is right for her. What she should and shouldn't do.

To me, that is what crosstalking is about. Won't say that I always remember to use the words "can you try to" or "I would suggest" "maybe this" , but I try not to say "You need to do this" or "You should do this".

CJ, I think this is an awesome topic - when I first start attending meetings, I had no idea what "crosstalking" meant. Once I got the courage to ask, this is how it was explained to me by several of the "old timers" in my f2f home group.

Thanks to all those who do share their e, s, & h. It is what helps us all to recovery from the affects of this disease.
Peace,
Rita

Christy · ~*Service Worker*~

Rita.
Agree..
I cringe when I see a post that says YOU NEED TO (fill in the blank).
Not one of us knows what someone else NEEDS. Besides...to tell someone else what they NEED makes one sound like a pompous ass, IMO.

CJ,
I don't really feel when someone says "if it were me" IF, (I said IF..LOL) that person knows the program and works the program, and if the poster was asking for ES&H.
In that case (to me) it is just ES&H coming from experience and offering what has worked for them or what Alanon suggests.
Now if they said "if I were in your shoes"...that's iffy. None of us can be in someone elses shoes and say how they would react unless they were really in those shoes.

Telling someone what they NEED should not come in the form of ES&H , IMO...ever.
I know too that people have said what your A NEEDS is (fill in the blank).
"The A will never be better unless they get in AA and work a program"..I bite my tongue at that too. It absolutely is NOT the only way to recover.

*jumps of soap box*

Did I just crosstalk? ROFL

Christy

Katy · ~*Service Worker*~

I am really cofused now, I don't understand what cross talking is, I thought it meant butting in on someone elses thread, I'm from the Uk I never heard it spoken about before, HELP what does it really mean?

Lunamoth · ~*Service Worker*~

Cross talk is usually considered interupting someone one while they are sharing, across a table at a f2f meeting or jumping in at an online meeting. The thing that I'm hearing is more about "advice" or "advising" people what they should do in their situation. Alanon discourages this practice because no one knows the WHOLE situation or is informed enough to make a choice or encourage a decision for someone else.

I appreciate the reminder, CJ. The thing is, here on the board and f2f meetings, there are people at all different stages of their recovery. I've had new commers tell me flat out what they would do if they were me. I just smile and understand they are trying to be helpful -- but I'm grounded in my program. Those who have been working their program longer are more likely to take what they need and leave the rest. But as someone who has been here a while, I'm in just as much need of a reminder as anyone else. It is all too easy to find someone whose situation is very similar and want to jump in and say "You need to....."

Caution is the key. Consider what might happen if someone were to take your "advice" and it blow up in their face, because you didn't know all the in's and out's of that person's life. Caution -- lets do our best to stick to giving our ESH.

Luna

Tiger2006 · ~*Service Worker*~

Cross talk is a sensitive subject, usually because we al anons are sensitive people! :) I think it does need to be addressed, though because it does happen quite a bit. It can take a format of "You really oughta" (guilty!) "You need to" (guilty!) or simply not speaking from experience, strength and hope and speaking in such a direct tone that it comes across as condecending, patronizing, and belittling (definately guilty!).
I think where the road of communication gets hazardous is where advertsers still make a killing: because what I say doesn't always come across to what I mean to say, it gets wrongly expressed. Additionally, sometimes what I percieve you to be saying isn't at all what you mean to be saying (is that cross talk right there? see how fragile the boundry lines are here?). So my style of "cut the crap and just say it" is often times inviting of cross talk; it's out right inflammatory when it's brusque, when the intonation is hurtful, and when it becomes down right mean.
But it's always said with the best of intentions, I'll say. It's always done in love, I'll defend my self. Well, so was the duch boy with his fingers in the dam; we all know how well THAT went down.
The fact is, for me, cross talk is a fragile balence between being rough and tough, and being gentle and loving; between being direct and to the point and between telling you stories where I wonder "is this helping ANYONE or is this just taking up space and giving me an excuse to use up oxygen and hear myself talk?" So that's where I'm at with cross talk. Progress not perfection I suppose. ODAAT.

barisax · Senior Member

Online forums don't really experience cross-talk in the same way as an f2f meeting.

From where I sit, the cross-talk prohibition means two things:

1. Each person talks in turn on the topic - one at a time, and addresses the topic, not the person who brought the topic up.
2. You don't interrupt, or interject. I find even "amens" and the like to be distracting and obnoxious.

Things like laughter will happen. But verbal interjections are really, really annoying and if I get nailed while I'm sharing in a meeting, I will do one of two things - either I'll say "Let me finish" and keep talking, or if my train of thought has derailed, I'll say "I lost my train of thought, that's all for now".

The single most important aspect of a discussion meeting - whether AA or Alanon - is to hear a person out and allow them to say what they are going to say, without challenge or return volleys. If the next person wants to expand on, or counter, or comment on what was said they can do that WHEN it's their turn.

If a person rambles on too long, then it's up to the chairperson to deal with it, knowing that sometimes when people are hurting that they DO ramble or rant, and that pounding them with the gavel may not be the right thing to do. This is where a sense of judgement comes into play... the chairperson needs to use their experience in these matters.

Now... when it comes to the online forum, interruption and finishing your thought are not a problem. I'm sitting here typing this and if it takes me another 30 seconds to finish - or it takes me 30 minutes - nobody knows, nobody is being held up, and nobody is going to interrupt me with another post. This is one reason why I think the forum board environment is very civilized.

If somebody posts a response to me that is argumentative, or in disagreement, or even just admonishing me for posting a big long rant or whatever - that's fine. But, it didn't derail MY process of composing what I wanted to say.

I do think it's best to start a new thread if your share on a topic is diverging to a new topic. But I see no problem at all responding to a share in the thread, whether it's the top one or the middle or whatever. These boards allow us to take what we want and leave the rest... literally. If I have decided that so-and-so is FOS, I don't have to read their posts at all! Unlike an f2f meeting, where I'd have to disrupt the meeting by getting up and leaving to avoid hearing from so-and-so... LOL.

The other thing about this medium is that the "speaker" is not facing his or her "listeners". If I'm talking an an f2f meeting, I can pretty much see the faces of everyone who is listening, whether it's 3 people or 100 people. Here, what I say can potentially be read by a *billion* people, and I have no idea who may read it... or when.

Anyway, I think the cross-talk issue is by definition something that affects f2f meetings, but doesn't affect a message board/forum, certainly not in the most critical factor which is the need to finish a thought without distraction or interruption.

Barisax

abbyal · ~*Service Worker*~

I really dont see how cross talk can be a issue on a message board . When I answer a post I assume they are looking for a solution , could be wrong !!! Cross talk in a f2f meeting is not a good thing I like u felt the same way that when someone feels they have to respond to my sharring that what I just said is not right. No crosstalk in meetings is a way of us showing respect for your opinion on any given subject , for the first time we are being listened too with out interuption ,that is a gift .
I have been to meetings where cross talk is okay and feel that the only thing missing is an ashtray and coffee pot , no solutions just a B@$&g session
Our meetings here are the same no one interfers with someones sharring thus showing the same respect as f2f. this board and open chat are a totally diff format . Louise

RainyJamie · Senior Member

I don't know, maybe I am not getting it, but I like it when people reply to my posts with all sorts of stuff. I can understand why we would want to avoid advice giving, but I am a very socailly isolated person and I appreciate...well...all the attention I get basically! smile

wp · ~*Service Worker*~

Simple minded here, and would like to keep it simple.
Crosstalk to me applies only to formal meetings, and means interrupting the speaker.

Seems like the thread discussion topic is something separate.

Maybe it would be good to have a meeting topic on IMO and If I were you.
The only way I know to express myself when asked a question is to refer to my own experience, strength , and hope. So that could be the same as IMO.????

Giving straight out Advice is dangerous ground to me.

pw

RainyJamie · Senior Member

just curious, what is IMO?

debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

It is my hope that our message board not have to be concerned if what they do is crosstalk or not.

This is not a meeting. Sometimes I will respond to someone, next thing I know I send it and think, wait a minute was that a response or did I start a subject?

People come here because they feel safe here. Maybe chat is too much for them yet.

Also there are things we can get out of each MIP room or sight, that we cannot get from another.

To be honest I get more "alanon" here than I do anywhere else.

I have never in all these almost seven years heard this mentioned on the message board.

I respect the subject coming up as it makes us think. As for me, I just want people to come here and share and not have to weigh if what they said was this or that.

much love to you all,debilyn

Kim65 · ~*Service Worker*~

IMO means "in my opinion" :) . Great topic, the internet has certainly added new dimensions to our Alanon get togethers. I appreciate how crosstalk is discouraged in f2f meetings, but interrupting someone on a BBS board is not possible. If a person 'hijacks' a topic for themselves, it's more a sign of where they are in their own program, not understanding the social structure and rules, besides bursting with a bunch of emotions. Gentle correction as CJ has done so well is the most compassionate response. Advice giving and sharing ESH can have blurry boundaries and Rita gave a great example of the difference.

When I feel compelled to give advice, I am not focussing on myself. I have given plenty of advice on this forum, and each time I was being squirrely with my program. It's easier to solve someone elses problems when I'm not centered (rolling eyes) . If advice is clearly asked for and I have an idea, I'll give it. But that is different than concluding the person is 'doing it all wrong, God help them!' and then spouting off. Thanks for the 'reminder' CJ, it's something in me I need to examine frequently to stay on track.

java · Senior Member

When I share on the message board, CJ , I usually ask for some feedback. Much like you did when you said, "Anyhow, I thought I'd through this out there and would appreciate to here other's feelings on the subject matter."

In cases where people don't ask for feedback, I usually don't share, or give advice unless asked to, when I do, I do so in the context of how I'd talk to a sponsee....share e,s & h.

If one is "sharing on someone else's share." or as you said,"In the cases I've seen, it has been more of giving answers and "if I were in your shoes, I would..." kind of language" this i agree is "crosstalk" because the person did not ask for an opinion, just to be listened to.

I usually WANT to see crosstalk on the message board, to my posts. Most times when I need to vent and have no where else to go, I come to the message board (not sure this is right, but this is how I do it)and then I don't necessarily want people's advice, just support. Comment's like "hang in there" or "you're doing fine" are supportive and appreciated. If I want feedback, I say so.

Anyway crosstalk in meetings is like Barisax stated:
"1. Each person talks in turn on the topic - one at a time, and addresses the topic, not the person who brought the topic up.
2. You don't interrupt, or interject. I find even "amens" and the like to be distracting and obnoxious. "
I feel this way too. If an opinion would like to be shared, wait to do so until after the meeting during chat. I really liked your share on XYZ, would be appopriate in chat, I think.

Hope that helps CJ, and thanks for making us all think about crosstalk and what it means!

Java

jrtjosey · ~*Service Worker*~

Christy wrote:

Rita.
Agree..
I cringe when I see a post that says YOU NEED TO (fill in the blank).
Not one of us knows what someone else NEEDS. Besides...to tell someone else what they NEED makes one sound like a pompous ass, IMO.

CJ,
I don't really feel when someone says "if it were me" IF, (I said IF..LOL) that person knows the program and works the program, and if the poster was asking for ES&H.
In that case (to me) it is just ES&H coming from experience and offering what has worked for them or what Alanon suggests.
Now if they said "if I were in your shoes"...that's iffy. None of us can be in someone elses shoes and say how they would react unless they were really in those shoes.

Telling someone what they NEED should not come in the form of ES&H , IMO...ever.
I know too that people have said what your A NEEDS is (fill in the blank).
"The A will never be better unless they get in AA and work a program"..I bite my tongue at that too. It absolutely is NOT the only way to recover.

*jumps of soap box*

Did I just crosstalk? ROFL

Christy

I agree, but I am stealing your soap box, for no further height advantages!

CJ · ~*Service Worker*~

Thank you all for your sincere sharing.

Our paths are all individual and separate, yet, through this wonderful program we are able to walk it in good company.

Brightest Blessings

carolena · Senior Member

Hi CJ - I've seen a few posts that with piggybacking. The person who posts first is the one
who we respond to. I've seen a few posts where someone stated what their experience
was in order to encourage the first poster. Then the next poster responded to the
encourager's post instead of the person who first posted.

That's my definition of piggybacking.

Cross-Talk? Al-Anon says we aren't to give advice. We can share what works or has
worked for us as long as we're not telling someone else what they should
or shouldn't do.

I shared about something that had happened in my family that was very traumatic for me.
All of the posts I received were encouraging and loving except one. The one I received was
even "in quotes" stating how I should act and speak. It didn't fit me at all and I was upset by it until I considered that all Al-Anons don't have the same level of recovery. I do believe we must
not make assumptions about someone else.

Thanks, CJ, for your post.

gardengal · ~*Service Worker*~

"Take what you like and leave the rest",,,comes to mind after reading this post. Afterall if we knew all the answers we wouldnt be here. Alanon does not give advice, we learn from suggestions, personal experiences, and sharing. I agree with the majority, if you are referring to crosstalk during a meeting, then it is not acceptable, if you are answering a post or someone in open chat, then that is quite different. Good topic,,,,,,,

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.