The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
"It is sad when the person they were isn't there anymore, like alzheimers, alcoholism eventually robs us and them of themselves...who they were, that is sad. But it is THEIR choice. And it's my choice if I chose to love them anyway...."
In my experience it is not a "choice" to have a disease or not. Is this what you meant?
If it was the choice of an addict to be one or not, in no way would they choose it. Especially when they lose everything they love, when they drink and drive and kill children and babies, when they are dope sick.
Most all A's at one time or another say, I want to stop. They mean it.
It is a physical thing to be an A. NO ONE chooses it.
My A did not choose to have a brain tumor, have a medical relapse and be so retarded he could not find his way back. And end up being a horribly abusive out of control person.
I have known him all my life.
I have no doubt in my mind that they do not have a choice to be an A or not.
Maybe what was originally meant was that they DO have the choice to get HELP for their disease. EVERYONE has choices in life. Granted, you cannot choose what cards are dealt to you but you CAN choose how to play those cards. If you are told you have cancer for instance, you can choose to try to treat the cancer and beat the disease OR you can decide to live out the rest of what life you have left as best you can making the most of your time.
I could be way off base here. I didn't read the original post....just what debilyn type in this one. This is just how I interpret the statement. Take what you like, leave the rest.
This is always such a tough subject. Cunning, Baffling and Powerful for me to understand.
I look at my daughter - the one on the inside, the one I really know. The one who is sweet, kind, very intelligent and loves children. She would never, ever do anything to harm a child. I remember during her first pregnancy she wouldn't even drink Dr. Pepper because the caffeine might affect the baby.
But, now the disease has progressed - She's in her 3rd pregnancy and in active use. She knows that isn't good for the baby. But lacks the power to stop. She knows there are resources to help her - treatment centers, therapist, meetings. But the disease tells her she doesn't need it.
Given the choice in the right frame of mind, I know my daughter would never hurt her child, in the active middle of addiction she is hurting her unborn child and her other 2 children who don't have their mother in their life.
Is it her choice? I don't know. Maybe it is just easier for a Mom to believe the disease takes the ability to choose away from her. I really, really don't know.
I just know she sees no way out. And all I see is the disease.
Just my thoughts, Rita
-- Edited by Rita G at 10:30, 2007-05-04
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
I believe that no one chooses to be an alcoholic. Or not to be. However one CAN choose not to die from it. It's about the only fatal disease that gives it's victim that choice.
I do not believe anyone can choose to die from anything or not. Aism or anything else!
If a person is an active A for 5 years, then stops for 20, they can still die from the damage the alcohol caused.
Addicts do not think like a person who is not an addict. They wake up craving to use.
It is rare one stays in recovery until they die.
Ya see aism makes it so you cannot choose. NO they cannot make that choice, that is the whole point. It is not like cancer and choosing chemo. They don't think like that when they are using.
Their brain is slowly being eaten away.
This is what makes the best drug counselors other recovering A's. Only they know how it feels. We can never say they have a choice. We may feel we have a choice, but if we are not A's we have NO idea how they think.
People are born with a predisposition to be an addict. Research is telling us that there are different degrees of being an addict also.
Would you expect someone with cancer in their brain to make good decisions?
A's, once they drink that first drink or use another drug, if they have the dna that says they are A, that is that.
It is like being drawn to what you are allergic too. A's who drink are allergic to alcohol. It is pure poison to them. Home much does one think they can drink poison and not destroy something?
I believe it is a disease, they have no choice. That is why they have to get soooo sick so mad so out of it to crawl for help. They don't have the energy to cont. hopefully they get to AA detox and a good program. Sadly, most get well and feel good enough that the disease just gets them going again.
If we believe they have a choice then I don't honestly believe we have detached. I really don't. there is the person, there is the disease.
The disease makes it so they do not have a choice. I am talking when they are using. However once they have gone thru steps, going to meetings, all the program they set for themselves, they have a chance becuz when that craving comes, they have SKILLS to get them past that craving.
This again is my experience and what i have seen too many times.
When I write/vent I am learning too, what i feel inside. I try to come up with analogies to help me to put it in a different light.
I am in love with my A. Being so, makes me very, very sick. I made bad decisions, lost my own path, lotsa stuff. I could not make the choice to not love him. I couldn't. I wil ALWAYS love him. I was laying on my deck in horrible pain, sobbing and wanting to die.
I remembered alanon online, was led to MIP.
All these years, I have been in recovery. First I detoxed, sick and sad, was online until all house in the chat room with many others for months. Went to the meetings, read everything.
I learned the "skills" to help me to not allow this "love" to destroy me. now i am in my seventh year of recovery. I still LONG for my A. I still think, well maybe I can just see him for a little while. It will be ok.
NOPE it won't. That is when the saying, trying to get bread for a hardware store hits me. Let go and let god. The skills keep me from taking that first step to see him.
It is not my choice to see him or not. My choice would be to be with him no matter what. But the skills and reminders draw me away from doing it.
With out them, I would probably be in the gutter with him.
Now I am confused. lol all i know is like rita said if we believe they could just make a choice then how horrible we would have to think our loved ones are.
To leave our children, leave us, lose everything, pee andpoo in their pants. Can you imagine CHOOSING to do that????
gads. so awful I know, love yous so much, be lost with out each of you.
Of course not! No one CHOOSES to be an addict. But, what they do choose is to begin putting substances into their systems that lead to addiction. If they didn't do that, the addiction would not be a factor. And it is as easy to avoid addictive substances as not. Once the addiction takes hold, they are sometimes powerless to overcome it. Their lives become unmanagable and they fall prey to the consequences. It's so sad.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Here's my two cents, and I've said it before...... I think it's a disease, yes, but one full of choices. My own A knew he needed help long before he got it. When he could look me in the eye and tell me all the ways he KNEW this disease was damaging our life together and then go to the kitchen and make another... that was a choice, my friends. When he told his 1st Sgt he just wasn't ready to get help yet.... that was a choice. Waking up and calling in for a last minute day of leave so he could drink with the neighbor... choice. Nobody ever had to force my A to drink a drink, he chose to every time.
