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I just read Serendipity's post and, at one point wondered the same thing. My A was and still goes to AA but when I've brought up issues about our marriage and that it is stagnant - neither here nor there - he comes up with comments I couldn't believe his sponsor said (his sponsor has about 34 yrs. of sobriety). I realized that my A, who I'd considered new to AA yet again only because he's and to meetings many times over the years, only to quit going sooner or later. Like recently when I told him we needed to sit and talk, he was upset about my telling him what I felt about us and told me his sponsor offered to come and be with him for our talk. I just can't imagine that his sponsor would want to sit in on a personal conversation. Then I realized my A said that as a way to let me know "I told him what you're like" ...But is there really a point an A reaches when you can tell they are committed. I don't know if it's the number of meetings they go to, the number of months or years they've maintained sobriety or what. I've always looked at it as one day at a time for both of us. I may be naive but I do get puzzled by the way he reacts to things. Just what is commitment to AA?....jaja
I'm only guessing here...I don't feel I have enough experience,strength or qualification to advise anyone. I'm not sure what is meant by "commitment to AA" in the early days. In my experience I have found that when A stopped drinking enough to actually hear or understand some of the AA messages,he used them to manipulate the "rules" to his way of thinking. I feel they need a long time of abstaining from the drink before any real work can begin. And in my A's case,once he thought he'd been sober for a few weeks,he thought he was cured,and therefore none of it applied to him!From what I now understand,he didn't take part in any of the meetings,share,or open up at all. He was merely putting his backside on the seat and turning up to show willing.
I used to get upset that he wasn't actually reading or learning anything,and if we talked about that, he would say that "they" all told him it was too soon for him to be doing any step work,then gleefully told me it was all pretty easy for him. I've since learned that,to a point,this is correct. They have to learn first to do without the drink and dry their brains out before getting onto the work of going through the steps and learning how they have dealt with everything in their lives with drink,thereby never having to learn how to actually deal with life itself. I've since spoken to a lot of recovering A's who told me that,for them,the real business of working a programme and being committed to it didn't begin until they had really accepted they were alcoholics,and really wanted for themselves the sobriety the longer term members had. For some of them,it took several years to get to that point,and now they have,hell could freeze over before they'd give up on meetings or pour that first drink. Until they accept that,for them,drinking is not an option and they start to feel the real benefits of NOT drinking,they aren't committed.
I don't know if that helps. It did help me at the time I was struggling to understand it all.By that time,we had split up and I am still learning what a life long struggle it is for an A to stay sober.I'm not sure if I had truly understood at the time,whether or not we would still be together. I only know that until or unless he IS committed to it,I stay single and take care of me.Goodness knows how long that will be.
One thing I DO know is,that my A's sponsor had many years sobriety and he would run a mile from getting involved in a head on with us both together. He'd happily talk programme with us both together,but any hint of any personal stuff and he'd be off like a whippet. Also told me to be very careful what A was actually telling me,since he was well aware that A manipulated to his own way of interpreting,and reminded me that he used to be a master of the same trait himself,so he knew the sort of stuff A would come out with.One useful thing he did say was to read up on alcoholism and the Big Book and educate myself as much as I could. And reminded me that A's best thinking got him where he is today..and that it was up to me to make sure I didn't dig myself into the same hole with him.
I can only surmise that as AlAnon is committed to our survival happiness, and health, AA is likewise committed to the survival, happiness, health, AND sobriety of the A. When one looks at it that way, the two entities, while alike, are on opposite sides of the fence. Sponsors are not divinely inspired, and sometimes use bad judgment. Being a sponsor is not a thing to be taken lightly; I would never do it. I am, simply, not the type. Some who are sponsoring are not the type either. I cannot imagine a sponsor wanting to sit in on a most intimate conversation. But then, I cannot imagine the A telling a sponsor "what you are like." Some things should be sacredly private.
What is commitment to AA? Good question. Depends on how one perceives it, I suppose.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Being commited to AA to me means being commited to living sober and thats what we always wanted for our partners. It is a decission they make every day to just not drink . am so grateful all I ahve to do is change I don't have to worry about drinking while i'm doing it . In order to live sober an A commits to meetings sometimes feels like they are choosing meetings over us , but for me what ever it takes to reach the goal works , a hr of talk over a coffee with husb is alot more than i got before he sobered up . Take whats offered and don't miss the good stuff they told me . I try to do that on daily basis . I only have to get thru today and I get to start over again tomorrow . If you can talk over your prob with a sponsor first *yours* before trying to talk to husband about sensitive stuff things seemed to go alot easier for us in that department and I also found if I talked it over with someone else first I really didn't need to share it with him , most of the time it was my problem anyway. Saved alot of arguments . turns out all I really wanted was someone to listen to me hehe and it didn't have to be HIM . good luck Louise
Committment to AA or Al-Anon (according to MY understanding) is applying the 12 Steps & Traditions to my Recovery and in ALL my affairs.
It is definitely a Progress not Perfection. It is a process not always achieved over night. Of course you are going to have concerns for your relationship, some of those can be discussed with your A & some can be discussed with Your sponsor.
And you also have the choice if you are uncomfortable discussing matters in front of his sponsor to tell him that you are not ready for that. Not taking up for your A at all, but maybe he feels that the sponsor could help him communicate things to you. I know it is not a great thing, but sometimes our A's really lack communication skills & the sponsors are able to help them with this. I don't know if this is the case with him or not - he could also be "hiding" behind the sponsor to avoid confrontation.
Will pray for you for guidance from your HP to know what is best for you & your relationship.
Wishing you Peace, Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
Well, if your marriage was anything like mine, "We need to talk" was a signal to him to run as fast as he could in the opposite direction! It meant me pouring out how unhappy I was with his behaviour. He would respond by, sometimes, saying he was sorry and that he would do better (no intention of actually doing this) or by not being able to handle it at all, and running for the bottle. Looking back on it, I don't think a single one of that type of talks had a satisfactory outcome for me, and they were in general a nightmare for him.
If you have a history like this, it could be that your husband is just scared. Scared that he doesn't have a good enough handle on sobriety to make it through a dreaded 'talk'. He may be hiding behind his sponsor and his program, because he is just now getting some idea of the harm he has done, and is afraid to face the music.
What I found helpful was talking it all out with someone else - program people, and a counsellor. As has already been said, most of it was MY problem anyway, not his at all, and didn't have to be raised with him. Once I had it clear in my head what I really needed to communicate with him, it came out easier, just while driving around or doing things around the house (and a couple of times during a fight).
Another thing I found VERY helpful, was finding a different way to make my point. For instance, one thing that was really starting to bother me, after he had been sober for about a year, was the way he just sorta sidestepped the hard parts of being a parent. While he'd been active, I had done most of the parenting, and it had suited us all that way, but I was getting resentful once he sobered up. We had one mini fight about it, when I let it be known that I still felt like a single parent most of the time. No resolution there, no answer to the problem, we just let it drop after exchanging a few words. But - the next time a difficult issue came up with the kids, for the first time ever, I was NOT in there like a dirty shirt. I drifted back, stayed out of sight, and let him handle it. He came looking for me, after things had calmed down, and seemed to feel that he had really messed up. He'd found it very hard, very stressful, but had kept his cool and dealt with the situation. I said "They are both still speaking to you, and speaking to each other. No blood has been shed. You've done fine." He found that something he had been dreading and avoiding most of their lives was hard, but doable. Rather than tell him what I wanted him to do, I just didn't do it for him, and he HAD to take up the slack. I learned just as much from that episode as he did.
