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I have been wondering about this. It seems that my A will go to any extent to convince me that things didn't happen WHEN WE WERE BOTH RIGHT THERE!!
It is obvious to me that he mostly does this to avoid shedding an unpleasant light onto himself. He would rather have me believe that I am crazy than fess up to these things. The incidents range from little importance to very drastic.
I have often wondered if HE is, for lack of a better word, crazy. Is it possible that he has no memory of these things? That he believes the funky things he says happened? Or is he consciously lying because he can't admit his own faults?
I'm not sure I'll ever know know the answer. All I know is that he'll deny everything, even if I have it on tape.
Jamie
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I'm like a pinch of tea...put me in hot water and see how strong I can be.
There are so many reasons. Sometimes they lie point blank even when you've seen it because they are ashamed and it's easier to deny it all. Sometimes (rarely) they honestly don't remember... this is mush brain and it is neurological. They get backed into a corner and they don't know what to do but to lie.........what else can they do? Tell the truth? Not going to happen and if he ever becomes sober you will find yourself filtering every word that comes out of his mouth. This is why it makes the whole family sick. Sorry you are going through this. It really is horrible. I hope things change for you. God Bless.
My A "when did you take this picture"...two days ago, you're looking right at me smiling -- you tried to take the camera away from me.
"I put the end table in the attic" ... no, you didn't -- I did, that is something I won't forget doing.
"Nice flowers, who gave them to you?" .... you asked me that yesterday.
and the worst, when he didn't remember things he had done with the kids. There was no way around that. Kids remember.
I thought an A had to be pretty smashed to have "blackouts" but my A after all the years of drinking has very poor short term memory. He can give you a blow by blow account of something that happened between us 20 yrs ago, lol, but yesterday?? No way.
Yes they lie, but more than anything they are covering up....hiding their disease -- do you really think they will admit their memory is as bad as it is? If they did that then they'd have to admit there is a reason it's as bad as it is.
Stop fighting with him about who is right....you know. This is where it comes in handy to say "You COULD be right." -- but we know he's not LOL.
As far as admiting to something even if it's on tape, I doubt they will. I was talking to an A friend of mine, not sober, about memory loss and the things above. He is a level headed person for an A, knows he's got a problem but "it's not that bad" -- well he called me all upset one night. Said he came home from work, that his daughter had said she wanted to watch the video he taped of her the night before, he said he didn't tape her. She said yes you did, I danced in the rain. He got mad, took the tape out and low and behold, there is his daughter dancing in the rain. He wasn't "drunk" -- and his problem is still "not that bad." Go figure.
We just have to do the best we can, keep our sanity, our peace. We don't have to prove that we are right. Be confident in knowing what you know. Sometimes you have to ask yourself is being right worth the arugment....worth my serenity.
a psychological condition. hmm. in my marriage, it was more of a psychotic condition. my wife was soooo used to lying and manipulating, as that is what she has done for her whole adult life, that she could no longer see reality. extra-especially when reality was a snapshot of her bad behavior. time to medicate. time to take the focus off me and retaliate. time to bring out the defensive guns and turn this situation around on whoever i can. lies and manipulation, that's the A way. psychologic condition == absolutely.
those situations are the ones we cod'ees need to detach ourselves from.
with love, cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
I know with my father he would forget little things that he didn't care about, remember things he did care about, and lie about horrible things he did. One time he tried to distort reality by saying he busted down my bedroom door and busted out laughing when he actually busted down my door and was going to punch me. He was hoping I would forget how violent he was. My mother left him finally and he blamed it on my stepfather instead of looking at himself. It's very sad because if he would look at himself and get help he would be so much happier. Thanks for posting this.
My 2 cents: My sister has been in an extremely violent marriage with a guy who is an alcoholic and drug addict. Over the years she has had to tell so many lies to cover up what was really happening in her own home that she managed to convince herself these lies were true. Now that she has left her husband, is in the middle of a nasty legal divorce and seeing a therapist, the events she has so often lied to cover up are starting to surface. There are things that has happened that she is only now starting to remember - terrible things. The therapist said she has post traumatic stress syndrome. - that is the only experience I have with it. I don't know if it will help you at all but just felt compelled to share.
Thanks, it's just that something happened, that happens alot but in different ways, and I wanted to figure it out once and for all. yesterday my A was bugging me and I did not want his attention. I brushed him off, but I knew it would anger him, so I turned to face him. I saw complete rage on his face, and he did two things: 1. smile 2. punch my arm I told him to leave me alone and he laughed and said he was just playing around. Denied ever being angry or having the conversation we had. He was just playing around and punched my arm out of nowhere for no apparent reason because hey, it's fun. Later when my arm was sore he denied punching it at all. It just never happened.
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I'm like a pinch of tea...put me in hot water and see how strong I can be.
I think it is one of the most irratating qualities of an alcoholic. The insane denile of reality and how they talk for hours going over the same point. Honest to God in the last conversation I had with my ex ah he said he was living with a new woman and then said he isn't, he never said he was and then said the woman he is living with has 14 years in the program! I think his head was spinning all the way around like on exorcist. That's why it is pointless to argue with an alcoholic. I am with many of my own character defects. I know how futile and aggravating it feels to try to get an a to change. It's all about me. I can change, I have changed and I will change. In the mean time I would rather bang my head against a brick wall than try to argue with an a. Just take care of you.
Some of your answers are in the "why do I use denial?" Similarities... Some of your answers are in negative emotions that motivate denial such as fear, shame, guilt etc. Some of your answers are in the physiological aspects of alcoholism such as blackouts, brain damage, memory damage etc. Some of your answers are in the fact that denial often is a protection mechanism. Denial protects the ego when self imaging. Ego always wants to see itself as good and therefore blocks out the negative or seemingly negative. Some of your answers are in the quality of self esteem. If he is already overloaded with a negative impression of himself, his denial maybe stopping overload.
There are all kinds of possibilities. What was told to me that I valued from the start was the one that it was a defense mechanism. That gave me time to go after it. In your case it might make best sense to go see an impartial helper.
You already have some intuition on why he is doing it and you are the closest to the problem. I hope some of the stuff here helps. Denial is maddening!! even when I do it.
If someone is punching you it doesn't matter why it happens. What matters is it is happening. I would question how safe I was if someone was punching and and then either denied or forgot doing so.
lilms
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Two things: 1. Recovery is a process, not an event.....and.... 2. You only get to go around once. Leave em laughing and make it worth your while
If someone is punching you it doesn't matter why it happens. What matters is it is happening. I would question how safe I was if someone was punching and and then either denied or forgot doing so.
lilms
yeah, I agree, the fact is that he punched my arm. I know he did, and that's what's important. Why does it matter so much to me that he admit it? That's what I want. Admit you're drunk. Admit you spent all the money. Admit you lost your temper. Admit you made a mistake. I do it. Sometimes I even apologize. If they are working the program is it still as bad? I guess that's the only way I can know for sure...is it a mental defect or is it a safety blanket.
-- Edited by RainyJamie at 17:14, 2007-04-25
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I'm like a pinch of tea...put me in hot water and see how strong I can be.
