The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have an ongoing problem with "suggestions" given to parents of addicted children. They are, without exception, told that they are enablers, and they must say "No" now. They must do nothing for the child. Don't help them in any way. Don't get them out of jail, don't feed them, don't....don't.... don't. No breaks...no nothing. Newsflash...young men get raped in jail...Further, parents are told that the child's addiction is not the parents' problem, so they should "follow the program" and rid themselves of any inclination to help; let the child fall...BAM!!! while they, the parents, go about finding their "serenity."
I believe this attitude is playing with fire and here's why. SUppose parents follow these guidelines, and the kid becomes so despondent that he/she commits suicide???? What then? How does a parent carry THAT guilt? Is it still none of the parents' business? Did the parent do the right thing in this case? DUmping the kid to his/her own devises is a crap shoot which could carry with it a deadly outcome.
I would walk to the end of the earth to help my child if he was addicted. I thank God every day I don't have to deal with that one, but as a loving parent I would NEVER give up onmy child under any circumstances. I DO see this as giving up. The parents brought them here, and those parents must nurture that child. No matter what it takes. To do otherwise is abandonment.
I guess there is something here I just don't get.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I agree w/you 100%. I have a son who is an addict/alcoholic. I always listened to my heart as far as he was concerned. I could not abandon him. I don not regret the money spent on many rehabs, counseling, and even a couple of lawyers. What I learned from alanon was that I could not change him. But I did change me. I learned to help only when he asked. I learned to stop nagging. I learned to give it to God. I learned how to separate him from the disease. I learned how to accept and love him. He has been in recovery for a year now and thanks me often for my support and tells me he loves me every time I talk to him. This is what worked for me, and I have no regrets.
Great response danz. Good for you! I do see your points about gaining acceptance. There is no greater love than that which we have for our child. You are proof of that.
With best wishes now and in the future,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
In my experience, there are far more kids selling themselves for drugs, than getting "raped" in Juvenile jails.
I sure see your point. Having a son who was headed that way......however, there are new ways to encourage them to see or have a chance now, than jail.
My son was sent with a reputable group to backpack for 3 weeks. Could only carry needs no wants. That means dry beans, a chunk of cheese, chunk of meat, and whatever else as a need.
They had on going therapy. The kids did a solo where they are left with all they need and do not know where they are. The counselors know of course and check on them by notes in a certain place. They actually see them too.
When my son got back we got right into drug and alcohol counseling.
Then he vegged around until i said time to go. He packed his back pack and learned further he could take care of himself.He left with no money, no nothing. My son today would make any one proud. No he is not perfect, but drugs are not a problem. He is honest, works very hard. Has no trouble with the law.
There are also boot camps, ranches and other places they can go to get a lifestyle change to see if it opens them up to want to live.
Sadly if they are an addict, it is not that simple. not that it is simple.
The quicker they get miserable from using the better. I can tell you right now, if a parent gets into keeping an addict kid home, feeding and caring for them, they will cont. to use,plus, they will never grow up and be there until they die, or until you do.
When we take away all their chances of learning to do for themselves we are not being a parent.
Hey I wish it were so, that all we had to do was love them, feed them and make them safe. It isn't for the addict child. Just like the addict adult loved one, no difference, the disease is the same, has the same symptoms.
It tore me apart to send my son on the back packing thing. It tore me up to send him out to grow and use what he had learned.
I had faith in him. And today he tells me alll the time how he was glad I did it.
He is proud of his accomplishments. Is he an A? I believe he has some or one of the genetic markers. Thank God I am not an A.
If my A's mother would have said NO you cannot come here, maybe he would have gotten into recovery again. But she helped the disease to cont. If an A cannot find anywhere comfy to use, they either live on the streets, or they find someone to use, and thank God some get so tired of it they walk/crawl into AA.
What is this, it is better to keep them semi alive than give them a chance to spread their wings and learn what they need to?
tough question. But for me, I cared more about my son than the pain I felt.
"When we take away all their chances of learning to do for themselves we are not being a parent."
Perhaps you misunderstand the point of my post Debilyn...I never meant to infer that parents must take away all their childrens' efforts to do for themselves. Far from it. But, teach...TEACH them the right way. The teaching should not be left to some outsider. I have heard so many horror stories about boot camps and ranches that I would never consider sending my kid to one of those. I am also not necessarily saying the kid should be kept at home; but as far as is possible, they should be.
Addicted children are going to be miserable from using whether parents turns their backs on them or not. And parents can continue to have faith in their youngsters without abandoning them to fend for themselves.
Maybe I sound like a person giving advice about children who has no children. because I do not have an addicted child. I simply feel that at times, the advice I read here on the subject runs amok.
Love to you and all the furbabies,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I have some pretty strong feelings about your post. I was an enabler to my children. They were both addicts. I did learn and try to follow the principles of alanon. I was never told not to feed them. I was told not to give them money. Not to do for them what they could do for themselves. To detach with Love. Difficult, but not impossible.
I tried everything I could think of, and my best thinking landed me here. I will tell you that my son took so much meth he was psychotic. I often wonder now had I not changed my ways, if he would have killed himself with his drug use, or worse ended up permanently crazy. What ended up working for me was he showed up here broke, with no place to go. I told him he could not stay here. I would though give him a ride to a shelter or a rehab. Thank HP for a backbone that day. He went to rehab. He has had a job and as far as I know not touched meth for over 2 years.
Giving advice is dangerous, that is why alanon asks us to share our experience, strength and hope. What works for one, doesn't work for another. I also truely believe that unless a person walks in these shoes they can't have a clue. Watching my son and daughters drug use was the worst thing I ever hope to go thru. I remember thinking over and over again this is killing me...considering my health at the time it more than likely was...
By the way, an interesting side effect to my sons time in treatment....he came home for a visit after a while and it was mothers day. He looked so handsome and was able to carry on a real conversation..I was so grateful...My daughter showed up a mess...drugged out...She was jealous of my son...it was a Saturday...On Monday she called...She was in rehab...She wanted what he had...So that backbone went along way for both of my children.
These suggestions sound hard...but ya know what..When u are dealing with a drug addict..they are only one high away from an unintentional overdose anyway. I waited awake for the call many nights, believe me.
For those of you dealing with an addicted child...( I know I sound like a broken record here) Get to meetings, Get a sponsor (someone to help guide u), and Take care of yourself!
Thanks for your most sincere reply Carol. I have not advised anyone to do or not to do anything. Simply stating my opinion, which, as far as I know, is all right to do. I wonder why some youths become addicted and others do not. It is a mystery to me. Perhaps it is genetic; perhaps not. Must be a truly awful thing to have to deal with, and I have great compassion for those who do it with successful results..
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
My friend and her husband are wonderful parents with a hugely successful daughter and a drug addicted son. They went crazy trying to "help" him in the beginning and to no avail...he's lied, abandoned his infant daughter with them, stole their furniture and more. They finally made the decision to let go and let God. Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten bad enough for their son as he still struggles.
But they've done an amazing job raising his daugher and enjoying their own daughter's children. They grieve for their son. But I think they know, as we all do...the three C's.
I guess the point is..."good parenting" isn't a guarantee to keeping your kids off drugs. They encounter so many outside influences that we we as parents can't control.
I don't know the answers as far as kids go. By the grace of God my 3 haven't gone there.
I do believe I am among the the parents that would leave them sit in jail. In fact I have told my son if he would get picked up for doing anything , he better take his toothbrush. I have seen the results (my neighbor) of constantly making sure they have a soft place to fall, rushing in to save and rescue, never allowing them to hit bottom.
The post I made a few days ago is about a 30 yr. old addict/daughter that has been coddled since she was 15. Her rehab has been pd. for over and over. She's been in jail and bailed out numerous times. She has a child to be responsible for, but isn't. Grandma works about 60 hrs a week and cares for the baby too. It's just insane.
I do believe unless an addict hits some form of bottom they will continue to do what they are doing as long as they can get away with it and still be accepted by their families. I don't mean that they should be shunned. But what is going on across the street from me is the outcome of "helping". Addicts seem to quit when they have lost everything and have nowhere else to turn.
just my .02 cents luv ya Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
I wonder why some youths become addicted and others do not. It is a mystery to me. Perhaps it is genetic; perhaps not.
I sometimes wonder why anyone would become alcoholic or addicted? The answer I usually get...Not worth the brain space..Wouldn't change anything anyway.
hi again, yes Diva there are some awful ranches and boot camps and survival experiences. We need to be very proactive if we choose that route. There are many ways to check them out first!
There is NO question that being an addict is genetic. All you have to do is go online.
Ask any doctor, researcher. Just recently they can not test you to see what your genetic code tells them about you. It is like there are now tests to see if you have the gentic code or codes for different kinds of cancer!!
Pretty scarey as I think I told you on a program on tv they were talking about how they can tell so much from just a baby in utero. And they were discussing people could choose to abort if the baby would get a certain kind of cancer, and they mentioned addiction!
It is a tough one when it is your child. hard enough when it is an adult! NO worries we are all talking about our experience.
However alanon and AA stand behind certain beliefs. A major one is not to enable.
Again how horribly difficult that is when it is your child who is your child all your life!
i honestly know in most cases it has nothing to do with parenting. It is a disease, same thing they did not choose it.
A hard one diva, thank you for bringing it up.
you know what is sad? A BIG majority of babies and kids from here and other countries are fetal alcohol affected, other drug effected and addicts. I am talking these beautiful babies that seem normal that people adopt!!!
All the feather, fur, hair faces are wonderful,thank you dearest. i want to say I am glad for parents who never have an a child. Very much so.
I feel very compelled to respond to your post. I have a 20 year old son who has struggled with addiction, been in a couple rehabs etc. As parents, we never dreamt we'd have a son with an addiction problem. So I guess if you've never experienced it first-hand, it is really tough to say what you'd do. We've never stopped loving our son or supporting him, but only with his recovery. We did not support him in his addiction. Like Debilyn mentioned, they could die "using" or getting behind the wheel of a car while impaired, etc. We too worried we may get a call saying our son died from an overdose. And if jail is part of a consequence of the drug/alcohol use, we would not bail our son out. Addiction affects the entire family in a negative way. We had to ask our son to leave our home, although he had no money, no car, no phone, etc. But we also have younger kids in the home and it was not fair to them. And we as a family needed some peace. That didn't mean we loved our son any less or would not support him in his recovery. We have spent a lot of money on rehab, medical problems, ER visits, etc. etc. Most of it money we were glad to spend. Sending him out on his own was the only thing that finally made him decide to get the help he truly needed. If we'd let him continue to live here, we would have been enabling him, and I'm sure he would have continued to use. The decision to ask him to leave was one of the most difficult and painful things I've had to do as a mom. But thank God, our son chose to get help and God has changed his life. I certainly don't think it was giving up on our son when we asked him to leave......I see it as helping him reach his bottom. We never gave up on him, we always had hope, even in the darkest of times. Our faith has sustained us and we've seen miracles!
Thank you all so much for your thoughts. I am still stumbling back and forth between the philosophies, but am hoping that helping him to reach his bottom sooner than later is going to work. Buying groceries, paying rent, buying his children's clothes, paying bills, etc., must have been enabling. But once we stopped because of financial issues of our own, the family degenerated rapidly. So was that helpful or not??? Reading all your thoughts is very beneficial. Thanks.
I don't think helping feed your grandchildren is enabling your son. I think if you support his drug/alcohol habit, that would be enabling. If you know what your are giving is going directly towards the bills and groceries, then you are helping your grandchildren. Our children need to learn responsibility, but they won't if we as parents prevent them from suffering the "natural consequences". Very hard, but necessary. It'a all about loving our children, and hopefully making them to be responsible for their choices. May God Bless you ataloss in a very special way. My thoughts and prayers are with you!
Thanks to all of you who responded to my post. You have given me an insight that I did not have before. You have all made good points, some of which I had not considered. I realize it is easy for me to say what I would or would not do; I do not have an addicted child. But the pain of it must be excruciating. To all of you suffering through this terrible ordeal, I send prayers and positive thoughts for hope. For those of us who do not, I am thankful.
As always I offer my sincere best wishes to all,
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
Hi Diva, I'm actually really glad you brought this subject up .... I didn't think I was (lol) until I read through the responses.
I too am a parent of drug addicted, mentally ill, and alcoholic children; and you are right~~~it is more painful than any can know. None of mine are in treatment.
It would be so nice if there was one pat answer that fit all categories, but there's not. What does work for one, doesn't another .......... just as with everything else in life. The only answer I know is HP (to me God), and each individual has freedom of will.
But, ya know what? Every A and every drug addict..etc, had a mom and dad!!! So that goes back through all history ....kinda like the chicken and the egg.
I don't have any answers, but I sure enjoy and need the encouragement I get from MIP and al-anon ...that we can all agree on.
If you keep coming back, keep an open mind, listen at face to face meetings and follow the suggestions the understanding widens. I was pretty closeminded when I came into the rooms of Al-Anon. I thought I knew and then knew I knew little. I didn't listen and accept what I was listening to very well and then decided that college would have the answers to my dillema with the disease of addiction to alcohol and drugs. When I graduated I instantly realized that the people in Al-Anon knew and knew that they knew and I had only just arrived at where they were at. Trusting others helped me learn.
After graduation I went on to be a substance abuse behavioral health counselor at a large recovery program with adolescents and their families. When the young addicts and alcoholics "get it" such as the messages about their disease and what they have to do to be free of the disease and are willing to do all that, they recover in spades whether they have enabling parents or not.
Enabling parents are as much a problem in this disease as the alcohol and drug dealers who keep the adolescents supplied with the chemical. When willing adolescents breaker from their dealers and enabling parents they recover more quickly than adults do because they don't have the time and investment in the disease that adults do. It is remarkable!! However for those that are unwilling and oppositionally defiant? They will use every opportunity, person and thing to keep going in the addiction whether they are loved or not is not a concern. Getting and staying loaded is of primary importance and should an enabler give them every asset they have whether mind, body, spirit or emotion the disease will use it until there is no more and then go find others who have more. This disease is insidious. How it stops is when all players in it stop playing their rolls. I have seen this disease kill the enablers faster than it can kill the addicted person.
The choices we have in Al-Anon to the disease of alcoholism is no different than the choices to the alcoholic. Either we arrest our participation and support of it and find serenity or we go insane and die. I have personally witnessed these.
ataloss mom, Welcome to MIP...I always gave my kids food...no money though...seems they lost their hunger for food as soon as they had $$$ in their pocket and it was off to the dealers house. You have come to the right place. Try to hit a face to face meeting and get ahold of some literature. The program is worked in steps and it is one baby step at a time. Makes sense, it took a while for me to get here. Try out the chatroom and meetings here too. You will find alot of ppl you can relate too. God Bless, Carol
