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Last night I had this great conversation with my 12 yo daughter about her dad. She has to write a short essay on obstacles she has overcome and chose to talk about her stepfather's alcoholism. It's amazing how much you really don't know that went on when you were gone, out of town, out of the room, etc. to be found out later. I drew her out to think about the consequences to her personally rather than focusing on his behavior i.e. having to move, loss of family income, more responsibilities falling to her, etc. Later I thought about how I have been seeing his disease lately and when we talked again I asked her to remember the good times (she had a hard time) so we went to the normal not bad times. Then I told her to picture her dad and next to him one of those demons that jump inside people's bodies on tv (maybe not the best choice but seemed fitting at the time) and to put it into perspective her dad is the good/ok times person and the evil thing next to him is addiction and that's where all the meanness came from. To try to get her to understand the person and the disease being separate. She seemed to get it and I was hoping that it would help her let go of a little of the bitterness and resentment she has toward him.
My MIL also an A in recovery says it is inappropriate to tell the kids everything that is going on with their dad. That it is a burden to them, etc. I am wondering what the concensus is here about being honest about addiction with kids, especially younger ones. Looking forward to your responses.
What a great topic. I just talked to my 12 yr old the other day about her dad and the mental illness and the addiction and how I don't know which makes him do and say the things he does. I was so scared to bring him up at all. I just don't want the kids to hate him and I'm scared that I am not going to say things right so I say nothing. I have finally said something and I made sure that she understood that I wasn't telling her any of this to make her mad at her dad. I am very interested in hearing what others have to say. I like your explaination. I really don't know how to communicate with the kids about their dad in a healthy way. I have heard at a meeting when I brought up this topic that kids don't need to know the details. Like they don't need to know that their dad is a crack addict. Alcoholic or addict is fine unless they ask. They don't need all the nasty details of what he has done etc....
I am so happy somebody posted this up. Since my A Fiance relapsed monday I have been wondering just this...and getting myself prepared for one day having to deal with this with my son.
This is a tough one. I'm an adult child of an alcoholic-- where my Dad's drinking was never discussed-- and I can tell you I was aware something was wrong at a very young age (maybe 6?). I wish my family had been more open about it at the time-- in terms and with as much detail as I could understand, of course-- because I grew up doubting myself and all my perceptions since we acted like there was nothing wrong.
This is a touchy situation. It makes us a nervous wreck and I don't at all claim to know the answers, but I can tell you what happened with me and my 12 yr old son.
When he knew that Mom was mad all the time, that we argued when he went to bed, that she would ask me to do things that I refused to do that would send her over the edge.... he didn't sleep well, his grades suffered, he had constant stomac aches and headaches. HE was as big a mess as I was.
When we (I) made the decission to seperate, I sat him and his older brother (21) down and explaned that some people can have a few drinks and it's no big deal. But some people get sick when they drink. It affects how they treat other people, what decissions they make and even changes how they see what everyone else is doing or not doing.
That's why we argue, that's why she gets mad at the drop of a hat and why she goes balistic over the smallest thing. That is also why it has gotten worse lately... this gets worse if you don't get help.
I would like for Mom to get some help with this, because it is a medical problem. There are folks out there that can help her, but I can't... and she doesn't want help.
He understood sick, he understood that I love her but can't accept the chaos, for him or me.
He sleeps better, he goes to bed without us tucking him in, he plays with friends again. He has matured and has more self confidence. In 6 months time I can see a huge difference.
I really think he was simply miserable, not only from witnessing the chaos, but from not understanding where in the world all this conflict was coming from.
I agree with Serendipity and what she has heard. Rehashing all the old mistakes and outbursts is not necessary. Kids know sick.
I wish you luck, and you are all in my prayers.
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
My take is that it is important to be honest with kids, but pay attention and take your cues from them. For example, my oldest daughter (L), born by C-section, was 2 1/2 when yougest (K) was born. L knew that the Dr had to cut me to "take her out", but that I did not have be cut for K. She never asked how K came out. Ever. Of course, she eventually found out as she is 12 now and we have talked about these things, but I always thought it was interesting that a child would never ask for an explanation. I just took that as a sign that she was not ready to know.
When my AH went to treatment, I was not sure if we should tell the girls or not. It would have been easy to lie to them, as H is TDY so often, but he felt we should tell them the truth. He was right, it was the best thing. We visited the tratment center every Sunday for the month he was there, and now we go as a family to his monthly AA potlucks, which always include a speaker story. My oldest enjoys these stories a lot, my youngest just enjoys the desserts. She is nine and one night, the speaker started her talk with how she started drinking at the age of 9. Ya should have seen my daughter's face.
Anyway, I think that overall, it is good for them. I don't think that we need to divulge every detail, but we should strive to as honest with them as they can handle.
Before my husband sobered up, I was, I think, nowhere near honest enough. I tried to pretend that there was nothing wrong, or that "all married people fight", thae sort of the thing. When things were really bad, I had no choice but to be a bit more open - "Dad's been at the bar since noon, please don't come downstairs tonight, no matter what you hear." Looking back, that was not a great way to handle the situation but I was doing the best I could at the time. There was a real dividing line between dad drunk and dad sober, and everybody knew it.
When he went into rehab, we were pretty honest. They were 13 and 11, and we sat them down and had as honest a talk as possible (he didn't want them to know about the crack addiction, and I have respected that secret - they know he did drugs, but I don't think have any idea of how bad things were) Since then, I have tried to be as open with them as I can, without trashing their dad to them. I know that he has done the same, though I don't think he ever opens the conversation and I don't know how many questions they ask him - they mostly come to me. I can say, wholeheartedly, that it has done them good for us to be honest, and discuss things with them. When I compare the wrecks they were starting to become, at one point, and how healthy they are now, well, there is no comparison. They have been through, and are going through at the moment, some really horrible stuff, and are still well balanced and happy. I do believe that honesty has a role in that.
I would say a couple of things to remember are - don't trash the A, and don't speak for the A. I say things like "What I think is happening here is ....." and give my opinion, and try to teach some of what I have learned here. If I don't know the answer, or if they ask me what he is feeling or thinking or doing, I say that I don't know, and suggest they talk to him. I think sometimes he would prefer not to have to face the hard questions, but oh well, not my problem.
I think this is not a difficult subject. The children need to know what is wrong with the A parent. But we must remember to use language they can understand, and relate to them only information that is appropriate for their age. Telling a 12 yo about Dad's affairs and dalliances is certainly not appropriate, but telling that same 12 yo that Dad is ill, and that his illness causes certain behaviors is. Remember that the A is also a parent, and children do not like for one parent to be pitted against the other, so keep the tone and the language civil. As the children mature, they will, of course,need and want to know more about the situation. When they ask questions, they are not asking for all the sordid details. Keep the answers brief and truthful. It is not a good idea to ignore the facts or pretend there is no disharmony in the household. It's all a matter of saying what is necessary but not going overboard. If the A goes for treatment, by all means tell the youngsters. Telling them instead that Dad has "gone to Baltimore to fish with his friends" is foolish.And...for God's sake, try to keep the arguing and fighting out of the earshot of the kids.
Diva
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
My AH started abusing drugs and alcohol when I was about half way through my pregnancy with our first child, so all 3 of our children lived with it from the day they were born. They knew no different. When the oldest was 5 and the twins were 4 they didn't understand why daddy was too tired to play, too grumpy to want to be with them or simply was just not home. Not to mention all the broken promises of going to the park or zoo, etc. My 5 yr old (who is my most outspoken one) was begining to feel his dad just did not like them. They all noticed the difference of how I was with them compared to how H was with them. They knew something was wrong, but did not understand what it was. I guess in someways it was natural for them to feel they were to blame for their father's indifference to them. Heck I was an adult and knew it was not "him" but the addiction that caused him to be indiiferent but sometimes felt that at times it was personal.
I knew I could not let them grow up feeling their daddy did not love them or that they had done something wrong that caused their dad to not want to be around. My daughter has epilepsy and the best way we could explain to the kids what was wrong with her was to tell them her brain was sick and sometimes it got mixed up and went to sleep, hence causing her to "go to sleep". So using this as a guideline I sat them down one afternoon and asked them how they thought their daddy felt about them (i.e. do you think daddy loves you....wants to be with you, etc). After hearing their answers (and having my heart broken at some of the answers coming from such small little people) I then explained that daddy's brain was sick, but in a different way than Kristy Jo's. That his brain was sad alot and didn't know how to stop being sad so it would get angry and make daddy be sleepy or grouchy. It made him want to be alone. I also made sure to tell them their daddy did love them very much and did want to be with them, but his brain was fighting with him, making him do things he didn't really want to do. They understood. I was quite proud of myself for being able to explain to them at that age what was wrong with him. After that whenever H was in "a mood" the kids wouldn't get upset, they would simply come over and tell me that daddy's brain was mad again or that daddy and his brain were fighting, lol. When H had overheard one of the kids say that he asked what they were talking about and when we were alone later i explained to him what I had told them. In some ways I think this also helped him. I knew he felt guilty and horrible about how he was, especially when it came to his relationship (or maybe lack of) with the kids.
I found a website that has some incredibly wonderful information, as well as games and kits you can get for free. (I will post the link below) There is tons of info there geared not only to adults but children as well. Some of the things I ordered were a board game called Too Smart To Start, Brain Power, Building Blocks for a Healthy Future (item #MS948) and a Childrens Program Kit (item #CPKIT-D). The kits have lots of activities and things to talk with them about. My kids really enjoy everything we got. Here is the link.......
http://ncadistore.samhsa.gov/catalog/results.aspx?h=drugs&topic=29But I feel that it is important for kids to know what is going on. And no matter how young they are, there are age appropriate ways to explain it to them. I know I didn't want my kids to grow up...even temporarily.....thinking they were not good enough, or that they had done something wrong. I also want to try to do everything I can to keep their self esteem as high as I can (without turning them into egomaniacs of course lol) since many many alcoholics and addicts suffer from low self esteem. I want to make sure their home environment is the best I can make it, educate them about drugs, alcohol and healthy choices and love them like crazy. Genes may play a role in where their future may go but their environment is also 50% of it, so I will give them genes a run for their money when it comes to my children's future lives and happiness. Andi
I absolutely believe it is important to be honest and matter of fact. I have never hid what was happening. I felt my children needed to be informed so they wouldn't be creating Lord knows what in their heads. Not only that, there was a safety factor. My son was told never to get in the car with his father when he had been drinking. If they were out, he was to call me. If there wasn't a phone near he had my permission to refuse. I made my husband aware of what my son was to do.
I did this after they went on a camping trip. My husband got trashed and was driving his truck in a campground with my son in the back. He hit a tree and my son luckily saw it coming and braced himself. That was also the last camping trip they went on w/o me or someone I trusted to care for my son.
Hard telling what could have happened if my son hadn't been aware. My son did in fact call me on several occasions. They'd leave to go hit some balls and stop at the bar and grill for "lunch". My husband always tried to be a good Dad but when it came to drinking and driving he was always "just fine" and I was being rediculous.
Whatever! My son is alive.
Christy
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If we think that miracles are normal, we will expect them. And expecting a miracle is the surest way to get one.
This topic has me remembering my childhood with an untreated alcoholic father. Whenever I came home, I went to the garage (it was a big house) to see if his car was there. I had to know if he was home or not. I used to keep a calendar (so young I didnt always write in the correct days) with a secret code, trying to find the connection between what I had done that day and his drinking. I thought my actions produced his drunkenness. I could have used the conversation youre giving your children that and AlaTeen.
She is nine and one night, the speaker started her talk with how she started drinking at the age of 9. Ya should have seen my daughter's face. 