The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
im new at this whole "spilling my problems" thing, i spoke to a veteran al-anon member tonite on the phone, instead of a meeting, we both felt that this board would work better for now...baby steps.
i grew up with an alcoholic mother, an EXTREME alcoholic. it took me the better part of 26 years to realize that most of my desicions in life were a direct result of my up-bringing, i like to call it "cause and effect"....
upon realizing that i was a "text book" case of a child being brought up by an alcoholic, i immediately changed my life and started "thinking" before i made desicions, straightened my life out.
i never ran to alcohol myself, but always clung to alcoholic or abusive boyfriends, always (without even realizing it) ended up in relationships that were very similar to the way my mother was with me......what a head case!
im 39 now, have been married 7 years to the most wonderful man in the world, and am being forced to deal with the past, something i don't want to...
3 years ago (from the extreme alcohol abuse) my mother had a stroke, which in turn led to alcoholic dimensia...since then, she has become epileptic, diabetic, suffers from hardening in the arteries and wears a nitroglycerin patch for her failing heart.
besides the fact that my entire family is SO in denial about her alcoholism (i guess the yellowing eyes and distended liver weren't as obvious to them) they have shut me out as i have expressed to them the fact that i DO NOT feel sorry for her, she did this to herself (not to mention what she did to me) they think im a terrible person for feeling like this, i can't change the way i feel.....
2 days ago, she was diagnosed with lung cancer, another addition to the numerous medical problems she is suffering with, she isn't even "here" most of the time, there is no way they will treat the cancer, the radiation/chemo would kill her.
the general concensus of the people in my life is that i need to forgive her.....here's the problem, i can't.
it's breaking my heart that she has yet another medical problem, i believe you reap what you sow but come on....ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!
i do love her....she's my mother....i understand that alcoholism is a disease, but that doesn't make it right and it doesn't give me back my childhood.
in order for me to forgive someone, said person must at least make an effort to show me they are sorry, she has never done this, not even once.....
my head is pretty messed up right now, ive babbled long enough...
Lucy am so glad you posted here tonite , you were not babbling you were sharring , am sorry for what your going thru right now . If forgivness is not an option right now try just accepting that she is what she is . and as u said u do love her . for your sake just be there for her ,visit when possible it will make u feel alot better should she pass away trust me what u don't' need is guilt . Perhaps you will never get the apology u deserve , just know that along time ago she lost the power of choice (or thought she had ) this is a terrible disease and nothing else matters to the one that has it . it runs thier life. Your in recovery , with alot of help and support u will recover and that is a gift that you have given to yourself . there is no point in trying to make others understand how u feel and you don't have to explain or justify your feelings to anyone. Al-Anons get us period . Keep calling your sponsor , come here and keep sharring how u are feeling . bye for now Louise
thank you for responding, you make this alot easier...im a national level bodybuilder and am not the kind of person that asks for help or a shoulder to cry on, it's my nature to be tough and strong....
i have been competing in bodybuilding for 8 years now. when i would be going to compete, my mother would (out of nowhere) get sick, when i competed at the world championships, the day i left she asked me where i was going......headgames....
i wish my family was more understanding and would stop this stupid denial game, it's quite tiring. im not "angry" about this, i realize (as i mentioned before) im the product of a enviroment....i think that maybe i just need to hear that how i feel is okay, instead of what a bad person i am. my sisters are considerably older than me (i was a mistake) i don't think she drank when they were young, and they were all married and out of the house by the time i was 6.
it's funny how your mind works isn't it? selective memories, denial.....
Yes, welcome to the board. You're aware and dealing with some heavy issues besides the death of the alcoholic in your life. Nothing about any of this is easy, but keeping your eyes open, accepting where you are in spite of advice to the contrary, is just where you are supposed to be now.
Reflecting on forgiveness . . . for me, an unforgiven person is no matter what, a weight around my neck, keeping me from moving about more freely. However! Forgiveness takes it's own time . . . I doubt you need to "do" anything about forgiving your mother. Since she is dying now, so much is going to go on outside and inside you that you'll need your attention on the here and now. The forgiveness thing will likely take care of itself.
((((Lucy)))) Welcome to MIP. I'm glad you found these pages and I'm sure if you keep posting you will find great acceptance and understanding.
My background is similar to yours, but alas I am not as fit as you.....lol. But I have a fair idea of what you have been through I think. Forgiveness for me to was a real minefield. For years I din't even understand how to forgive, even though I wanted to be able to. I knew I had to learn to forgive so I could get better myself.
Somehow I'm getting there. I now pray hard for those in my life who have...as I see it...betrayed me. I'm done with trying to figure it out or justify it. I just accept that things have happened to me, and now I can be in control if I chose to be. I will not carry resentments anymore because I know how destructive they are to me. I can chose now to live in different ways. I stopped giving my energy away to trying to figure out and understand. I now use my energy for my own recovery. The way I see it is if I give less attention to the resentments they become less important and less of an influence in my life. Then forgivness will be easier. I am conscious every day that I have to work at it every day.
This is just what works for me Lucy. I know we all have to find our own way.I hope you find what will work for you.
You are in my prayers, keep coming back. Yours in recovery AM
Sure, forgiveness would be great - both for you and for her. But, if it's not there, it's not there. What you don't want is to realize, once it is too late, that you acted badly, and caused pain that you now can't make amends for.
So, I'd say some version of 'fake it til you make it" might be in order here. Act as if you have forgiven. Visit her, tell her you love her. Save the reproaches and the "Why did you ruin my life" speeches. If there are any good memories of childhood, talk about them, not the bad ones. If there aren't any good ones, stay away from the subject.
I would not discuss this issue with the other members of the family - there is nothing to be gained, and it could have a real impact on your serenity. They will not let themselves understand, and you don't need to hear their reproaches. It's none of their business how you deal with this, and, remember, it is none of yours how THEY deal with it. At a time of death it is wonderful to be able to heal in the warmth of family, but if that is not the reality of the family you actually have, you don't have to force it. Take them in the size doses that you can stand.
You may be able to find some peace with the actions of your mother, at some time in the future. Right now, I would say just getting through this with your conscience and serenity intact is enough to hope for.
As for the getting the apology - remember that even those of us who HAVE gotten some apology from the A in our lives have trouble dealing with that ("Is that it? 20 years of pain and he says 'I'm sorry' and that's IT?") - in the end, forgiveness has very little to do with them, and a lot to do with us.
Here is my experience. My mother is just flat out rude and nasty but I love her because she's my mother. I could fill pages of this board of the things she's said and done. My mother wasn't an alcoholic. I just feel with my mother "forgiving" her wouldn't do anything because she feels she never did anything wrong. I just hear she did the best she could with what she had....blah blah blah. I just live my life around her now. It wasn't until she shared with family members her nastiness towards me that I had enough. We can forgive on our own without expressing it to them. We just say "I forgive them" and we live our lives happily. Let them live the only way they know how. Now that your mother is so sick just make sure you have said what needs to be said to her. I'm not sure in your case if anything will make you feel better and maybe you are better to just let her go. I don't know. You do what makes you feel better because you are the one that has to go on living. I'm glad your here. :) ^i^
Keep coming back & keep reaching out for help - This site & the Al-Anon program has been a wonderful resource for me to work on recovering from the many ways I have been affected by another person's alcoholism/addictions.
Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
No one can tell you how to deal with your mother. We can tell you how we have dealt with our own resentments.
As for me. I follow the AA big book on resentment. I ask my higher power to forgive them for what they have done to me. It sometimes takes quite a few times before I even start to really mean it, but I eventually do. When I finally do really mean for them to be forgiven by my higher power, the relief I feel when the resentment is lifted off my shoulders is liberating. I no longer have to carry that burden and can progress on my recovery.
The good thing about this program is you take what works for you and leave the rest.
Actually, I RECOMMEND you go to a meeting! In addition to bringing the "human touch" to recovery, it would help you to see what it's like to move AWAY from the pain of living IN alcholism and moving TO recovery! I too am glad you're here. This board will be a great supplement as you begin to feel out your way to al anon. Please know that as your mom deteriorates that we will be there to love you through the heart ache. Keep us posted!
Here's what finally helped me to see the forgiveness issue a little more clearly: Imagine someone owes me money. They're going to pay me back on Tuesday, I ask them about it on Friday, oh I'm so sorry I'll get it to you next week, and this goes on and on and on. Eventually I think, you know what? It's just not worth it for me to insist that I get paid back on this. It's causing me too much grief to have to keep pursuing this person for what they owe me. It doesn't mean what they did is okay, but "I forgive this debt", meaning - I'm no longer insisting that they pay it back. I'm releasing them from their obligation.
NOT meaning the behaviour was okay - the behaviour was definitely not okay. Even if they DID apologize, it wouldn't be "okay". Meaning instead, I am no longer exacting this payment, because exacting it is hurting ME. Hopefully also meaning, I have learned something here about how I might want to act in the future (including how I might want to protect myself), and what my expectations should be in my relations with this person.
I have heard forgiveness as the "opposite" of ANGER - that forgiving someone is actually releasing anger and resentment that is poisoning ME.
I have also heard the idea of praying for those whom we resent - specifically, asking our higher power to give to THEM what we want for OURSELVES. This is very hard!, but surprisingly liberating when I can manage it. "Give her peace. Release her from fear. Bring her joy."
I too feel calmer about these things when I go to a meeting. You don't actually have to speak at all if you don't want to, beyond introducing yourself by first name only. You can always say "pass" if it's a format where people are taking turns. Just listening is a part of healing.
Slight perspective change, regarding "forgiveness", that worked for me...
When I realized.... that the act of forgiveness, was for ME, to free ME from my burdens and weight of whatever happened in the past, so that I could live a better life NOW.... it changed my whole way of looking at things.... The act of forgiveness is NOT designed to free your Mother from her responsibility or accountability.... it is simply a step that you can take, for YOU, that allows you to lose some of the anger and hurt...
Take care Tom
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"He is either gonna drink, or he won't.... what are YOU gonna do?"
"What you think of me is none of my business"
"If you knew the answer to what you are worrying about, would it REALLY change anything?"
Welcome. I sure relate. Am sure many of us do. My husband is A. He had influenced my life since I was 17.
I have found through this whole life loving an A, I go back and forth. They are two or more people in one body. We love one and hate the other. I found, for me, I can love my A very much and hate the disease.
I want to ask you, if your mother's behavior was from a brain tumor all her life, would you "blame" her? I ask becuz to really believe that aism is a disease, we know they did not ask for it and cannot control it.
You are completely valid in how you feel. Of course you are. I don't get when people say you should not feel that way. If ya do, ya do.
I know for me, after educating myself all these years in alanon, I really know, my A did not choose to be how he is. I know he loves me.
I never see him anymore. I don't want to. The disease is too horrible for me to watch anymore. He does not want me to see him like this anyway.
no they do not do this to themselves anymore than you give yourself a cold. There are genetic markers that predispose us to be an addict. Some people have more of the markers than others.
I know you are saying you cannot forgive her. I know for me, I don't use the word can't. I say, "I choose not to." Can't seems so out of control to me. I really do choose to cont. loving my A. However I will not allow the disease to control me anymore.
The disease loves to see you suffer and not be able to forgive your mother. It has been fighting you all its life to keep your mother away from you. I am sure it has done horrible things to you.
It is so horribly strong it makes a mother want it more than a child. Now that is just plain insanity.
Which it is.
I don't want to say too much. Just sharing what I know. The forgiveness of her is more for you. When I came to terms with my A is really sick, that he is being held inside a body that is ravaged by addictions, my heart just aches.
No different than cancer growing in him, I hate the aism as I hate the cancer that killed my dear mother.
Here's what finally helped me to see the forgiveness issue a little more clearly: Imagine someone owes me money. They're going to pay me back on Tuesday, I ask them about it on Friday, oh I'm so sorry I'll get it to you next week, and this goes on and on and on. Eventually I think, you know what? It's just not worth it for me to insist that I get paid back on this. It's causing me too much grief to have to keep pursuing this person for what they owe me. It doesn't mean what they did is okay, but "I forgive this debt", meaning - I'm no longer insisting that they pay it back. I'm releasing them from their obligation.
releasing her from her obligation.....this is the best advice i have heard, thank you for your very well put words. if fact, i can utilize your advice when dealing with my siblings as well. it makes total sense. im NOT forgiving persay, im RELEASING, them and MYSELF from their obligation.....
thank you everyone for your kind words, you have no idea how much better i feel. as far as a meeting, im not ready for that. i am interested in an "on-line" meeting, baby steps.....
