The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
The word disease means - dis-ease, literally, it is not healthy, homeostatic or balanced. Is alcoholism a disease like any other mental disease, absolutely! That is the cornerstone of the 12 steps - just like sex addiction, work-a-holism or any other compulsive and out of control behaviour that leaves a person feeling guilty & worse about themselves later, yes of course that would be a disease to me. It's just denial to think of it any other way & that is also our first step, IMHO that we have to work through to get anywhere in recovery, to focus on our own lives & let the A's live theirs too.
I also believe in many ways, we are more sick than the A's are, being set up as an enabler & learning to overcome that is a one lesson in love after another, we have a love sickness. I sure know I've felt guilty for focusing on loving myself & not the A's but that goes away after lots of practise in loving our own selves & not looking to anyone, just our hearts & a personal exp w/ HP/God.
John Bradshaw sd, ' "We are the only ppl in our lives that we will never leave. We are born alone (singularly) and we die alone." ' ~ At least we can be 'alone' together.
There are many bitter pills for us to swallow, getting through denial is only the beginning. Hearing that we allow others to abuse us, is another. That's especially difficult b/c a lot of us were born into abuse - nontheless, as adults we can choose to tolerate the way in which we will allow others to treat us through our personal boundaries.
The Program is a lot of work & it's a personal/spiritual journey of human growth. Funny how no matter how much experience we have with expressing our emotions, it never gets any easier, less intense or real. Expressing human emotion is relatively taboo in USA, that's why most of us are coming from abusive & dysfunctional, broken families.
I guess we are the trail blazers, those of us expressing ourselves emotionally in today's society, I certainly do it on purpose, even though it makes other 'uncomfortable'. That's only b/c it makes them aware of their own feelings, that maybe they've been stuffing under the rug for 20 yrs. Besides, emotional congestion will only lead to other health problems - the mental ones are enough! So watch out, as long as I'm alive, I'll be opening my mouth, sharing my ESH & working to be an emotionally balanced human. - tyVm
-- Edited by kitty at 06:30, 2007-02-09
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Light, Love, Peace, Blessings & Healing to Us All. God's Will Be Done. Amen.
"The word disease means - dis-ease, literally, it is not healthy, homeostatic or balanced. Is alcoholism a disease like any other mental disease, absolutely! That is the cornerstone of the 12 steps - just like sex addiction, work-a-holism or any other compulsive and out of control behaviour that leaves a person feeling guilty & worse about themselves later, yes of course that would be a disease to me. It's just denial to think of it any other way..."
Kitty, when I use your words above and apply them to cancer, HIV, tuberculosis, heart disease and other known diseases, I am afraid your description just doesn't wash. To call it "denial" to "think of it any other way" is ludicrous. And I get a little tired of hearing that we are sicker than they are...I believe those to be words of convenience in most cases. Of course the actions of an addict can adversely affect us. No question of that. But I object to all of us being tossed into the "sicker than they are" barrel. If we think about it long enough, every one of us in the world could think of something about us that is not "healthy, homeostatic or balanced." Fortunately we are not all diseased. God help the criminal justice system as the concept of disease widens, which it seems to do every day.
Kitty, I, in no way, mean to offend you. I respect your thoughts, and thank heaven you can write them down. I just don't agree.
With best wishes as always,
Diva
I, as always, send best wishes,
Diva
-- Edited by Diva at 09:35, 2007-02-09
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"Speak your truth quietly and clearly..." Desiderata
I do agree that addiction is a disease, however, I cannot compare it to diseases such as cancer, etc. As far as I am concerned, addiction is a disease of choices.... When an addict knows that their behavior is damaging and continues it anyway, that is a choice. I often think this program has a great deal of irony, if not out right hypocrisy. After all, we are supposed to learn that there are always choices... just not always good ones. Does that not apply to addicts as well? Of course it does.
I also object to the being "sicker" philosophy. This is something that nobody has been able to explain to me just yet. Sometimes I wonder if it is the invention of a severely codependent personality....."you're sick? Well I am sicker than you.... and you made me that way!"
I have a lot to still learn about this program, so by no means do I think I am an expert. Just my thoughts......
"So watch out, as long as I'm alive, I'll be opening my mouth, sharing my ESH & working to be an emotionally balanced human."
I am so glad to hear it!!! Good to hear from you! We've missed you.
Emotions are tough for me. Can you imagine a new Alanon comercial....
Living room in middle America, 8 guys watching football. During a lul in the game one of the guys shares how he has really been sad lately, it seems that he is stuck in an emotional valley and he is having a hard time getting out of it. He cries and after his pals offer words of encouragement ... he says "Thanks, I feel much better now. I appreciate your support... what's the score?"
Yea right!!!
I am slowly being more honest with myself and my emotions.... but it is going to be a long haul.
So glad you are here!
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I don't want to hijack Kitty's post, but I will give you my 2 cents on the sicker than they are. I don't know if I would say sick"er" as a fact for me.... but very very sick for sure.
When my son (then 17) was in the worst of his binging and raging, I felt so confussed and so hopeless that I contemplated suicide to "make it stop". I felt like a failure as a parent, and was was trying to make sense out of nonsense with him for years. I just flat couldn't take it anymore.
For whatever reason he calmed down a bit and I had a little break from pure chaos for long enough that I lost interest in that option. Then my wifes disease started to really get bad.
I hit that point again, the day I bothered to look up the location of a local Alanon meeting. For me I was very very sick and couldn't find the door by myself. I can't say that of others and it's none of my business. But I understand where the phrase comes from. I am not sure I would be typing today if I had not gone.
Just thought I would share since you stated that you had never had a good explination of how that could be possible. I think everyones experience is unique and likewise the way each of us choose to deal with those experiences is unique.... so there is no one phrase that fits all.
Like they say... take what you like and leave the rest.
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I have to say that I am not sure that I believe that it is a disease like cancer per se.
I do, however, believe that once you are in the throws of your addiction that you lose your power of choice. I think the craving for whatever it is you are addicted to is way more important to you than anything else.
I also believe there is a biochemical side to it also....like the addicted persons brain does not have everything it needs. For example...I am addicted to food and emotional eating. If I take a pill that takes my appetite away...I am out spending money more. It is like you search for something to give you that "feel good" feeling.
There are many times that I am trying to abstain from sugar and white flower. I can be tempted and this fight goes on in my head whether I am going to pick up the donut or walk away. Unfortunately...picking up is usually what happens...before I even realize. The craving is so strong that I have to act on it. I didn't want to do it but I couldn't help myself. I keep promising myself that I will eat this donut and then...."that is it...no more"! Ha...that just starts the vicious cycle again.
OK...giving away a little too much information here but that is why I have so much compassion for the A. I think it is just the same with them except a different substance.
Love...Gail
ps----I am in therapy to deal with the A in my life and to deal with my addiction to the A and to the food.
Hi, I just wanted to talk a little about being "sicker then they are". I will really try not to make it too long.
About 5 years ago my A was hooked on porno. If I found something, he would get rid of it, then act like it was never there. This drove me crazy and I became obsessed with catching him. It wasn't hard, everytime I turned around, he was hiding something. As you can imagine, this began to tear at my self esteem. He would constantly lie, make empty promises, become angry... he was indifferent. I felt useless, helpless, unloved, unwanted, unattractive; just basically nothing. Worse than nothing and I wanted to kill myself but couldn't, then I felt worse because I couldn't even do that. I remember this feeling in my stomach, like I swallowed a rock. I would look in the mirror and not recognize myself, my eyes were red, my face was worn and everything about me seemed broken. I would say I was sick as a dog. And he was fine. I didn't know about enabling or detaching or pretty much anything. I sought out support for sex addicts (and the wives who love them), and while they helped me pass the time, I didn't get the support that alanon offers. Or maybe I wasn't ready. I am better now. The porno thing didn't go away, he just got better at hiding it and other things filled his addiction void. I don't check anymore. I could, because I wake up at night and he is not in bed. I could sneak up on him and catch him, but why, when I could be sleeping? If someone today said that I was sicker than he was, I would resent it. But I know that there's room for possibility. Thanks Jamie
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I'm like a pinch of tea...put me in hot water and see how strong I can be.
Well I can only speak for myself. I think on some levels I was sicker than the A when I came here. I felt lost, angry, bitter, deeply depressed and I was non functional. I could barely get myself up and I could barely put two thoughts together. My train of thought was all about the A and what he had done to me.
There as definitely a progression for me in the relationship. I started the relationship feeling pretty strong. I had a good job, got paid well, my self esteem was higher than it was before. I also felt cared for, loved and wanted. That was one thing that attracted me to the A he was affectionate kind and interested. I am now beginning to see the A was at the same point of desperation I was. He was reeling from having had a DUI, in fact his license was suspended when I met him. He drove on a suspended license. He hid all that and it is only beginning to come out now. It says something for my recovery that I don't obsessively research what exactly happened, who was involved and what the A did. I don't need to know. I would have in the past to try to control it but I can't.
I was on my own desperate plateau when I met the A. I had done years of work on my childhood and was at a place where I dreaded doing anymore. So I didn't. I just jumped straight into the relationship with the A. At that time I had a well paying job and so did the A. We did not appear to be "problems".
Over time of course living with an A and with all my suppressed childhood stuff there the union exploded into recrimination, screaming matches, show downs, manipulation, cajoling and more. I am so glad to say that now I don't do any more of the screaming. I have not for months and it is so great to be able to say that.
For me the disease comes from growing up in a dysfunctional alcoholic, abusive home. That set me up to be drawn to unavailable men. I also got set up not to be able to self care, focus on my issues (I had to suppress them after all to survive) and more. If I don't deal with my issues in time they explode. That is my own particular process.
I don't actually presume that anyone else is sicker than the alcoholic. I was. I became non functional. The A, no matter what, seems to be able to re-group. There were times I did not re-group. There were times I simply could not function at all. The A unquestionably brought some of this one but on some level since I was not dealing with my issues, I had that ticking time bomb of stuff inside me that I had no dealt with. In so many ways dealing with an A day in day out I have been able to process a tremendous amount from my childhood. On other levels I also deal with this chaos and his dysfunction and that holds me back (no matter how detached I am) from my own life process.
For me personally living with an A brought out the worst of my charactor defects, raging, grief stricken, frustrated and totally stagnant with blocked emotions. I was tremendously difficult to be around which is why I was so struck by working with a co worker recently who was sick with rage and resentment.
I know that this isn't a one size fits all program. Not everyone has a background similar to mine. I would not dream anymore of suggesting someone has (I used to do that all the time in my intrusive controlling past). I also wouldn't presume to wonder why someone stays with an A. They have many redeeming qualities. Some of us have made tremendous commitments to our relationships and they don't end over night.
Nevetheless for me personally I'd have to say by the time I got here I was very very very ill. I was lucky enough to find this place and if I hadn't I am sure I would be moribund by now. Maresie.
Well, all I can say is that I had no idea how difficult this disease is to understand and deal with. I would say oh yea, I am an adult child of an alcoholic and I am married to an alcoholic. It has impacted every aspect of our lives and our children's lives. His disease and my disease have brought this marriage to it's knees. It is all consuming and cunning and insidious as they say. And I think recovery and coming out or denial has been equally difficult. But there is always hope!
