To serve or not to serve??? That is the question. - Al-Anon Family Group

carolinagirl · ~*Service Worker*~

To serve or not to serve??? That is the question.

Dolphin123 · ~*Service Worker*~

(((CG))),
ESH on your situation, I don't have any.

Prayers on the other hand, I have plenty of, so you are on my list :).

Maybe make a list of all the pros and cons, like you did in your post. And see which one has more pull for you the pros or the cons.

Yours in recovery,
Mandy

carolinagirl · ~*Service Worker*~

Funny, ever since I posted that several bail bond agents have been calling repeatedly one was him calling directly thru the bail bond agent. It's like he senses it or something. Freaky!

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Carolinagirl!

I have been a case manager at an ATV program and a drug and alcohol (substance abuse) behavioral health counselor and It always concerns me that on the advise of professionals a victim will pull a Protection Order and then violate it themselves. This is not a put down but a indication of my fear. One of my past clients recently shot and killed his partner after she went to see him so that he could see his son. He killed his partner in front of the 2 year old son. I almost cannot breathe thinking about that.

By the way it also freaks out Family Court and you should be aware of what their ideas and attitudes are regarding the situation. If it has gotten bad enough for you to apply for and get and order for protection ... obey it yourself. If he follows thru on it and you don't you can be arrested for violation of an order. I don't apologize for my fear. In the disease of alcoholism and drug addiction I have seen way too many deaths of innocents. When the order expires you may want to see about getting it extended. Once he has crossed the line and physically broke the taboo of males don't hit females, and the consequences were none to light he has no reason not to the next time. If you extend the TRO you and he will decide in front of the judge about visitation with the children and the judge can order supervised, non supervised, none or others. If you feel powerless about him being able to just take the son...than you need to use family court. If its an order from the court and he violates that order (and you too) he goes back to jail and maybe one step closer to his bottom and sobriety. By the way has his addiction be mentioned in proceedings? If they have that needs to be part of separation and visitation.

If by saying you have the order available to be served you mean it hasn't...have him served in jail and have it extended. It is no good not served and if something happens you are not his victim you are your own victim. Have it served on him in jail.

"Kicking a down dog" and thoughts about how he might feel if you did or didn't do a thing are enabling behaviors. It is exactly like having and order for protection against him and going over to be with him. (Not scolding speaking from experience cause I know how that works cause I did it also until I woke up to what I was doing to me and to her. I drove her crazy with the dual messages of "get away" and "I need to be with you.) It doesn't matter what he thinks or feels...you are powerless most over what others think and feel even before the drinking/using starts.

If you haven't already get to open, face to face meetings and get Conference Approved Literature to read.

I am concerned and no longer fix. Good luck. (((((hugs)))))

Tiger2006 · ~*Service Worker*~

This is far, far, far from CAL, but the song that occurs to me about your situation is "Red High Heels." It's about a woman who's ending a relationship, starting her life, and is really trying to fake her courage, because, after all the relationship that she's ending is all she's really known.
But what occurs to me is that not 3 months ago, you were so upset, shocked and outraged (quite rightfully so) when you found out he had broken into your house, you had to be like the woman in this song when you went to file the paperwork for whatever protection you have. You were the classic "fake it till you make it," and we (me, if no one else here) were so proud of you. You were taking such assertive action, sending a definite message.
It's okay to send that message again. It's okay to file the paperwork. He could be in Maui, Mainland China, or Rikers Correctional. It doesn't matter where he is; where you are emotionally, spiritually and physically is really what's at stake here. And already, like you've observed, he's started to hang himself with a length of rope. When you shared that he beat up that poor woman my first thought "Oh dear god..." I couldn't bear to think what would happen if he came back into the house--what if he lost it, took it out on the kids? on you? Already he had no compunctions about breaking into their house; what about breaking the bond of love that exists between parents and children? spouses? My stomach felt so sick when I read that line.
I also agree with Jerry. It wouldn't hurt to sit down with the lawyer and to figure out what holes are existing now with the protection order and where they need to be closed. The legal profession has opportunities for families to visit with one another; perhaps a guardiam ad litem, or a mediator, someone could work with the court on the child's behalf, and totally take this responsibility out of your hands. This way, you can focus working your program ODAAT (which you're doing great at, BTW--the step work is showing through loud and clear). Additionally, these "officials" the court has at their access can make educated observations and access programs for the children; I'm sure as a social worker you have personally helped children in these situations, speaking up for them as a neutral advocate so that the parties involved in these heated insanity debates don't strain the child anymore than they already have.
It's worth thinking about. And, one more thing, and I know you've heard me say this: I've listened to alot of AA leads; I have heard 100s of them go "When she filed for divorce, took the car, the kids, the house and all the money, I realized I was in deep. That's when I thought maybe my drinking was a problem." I have never heard an AA lead say "When she let me back in the house, I realized what an a** I was, I got my sh** together, and got sober." Never.

maresie2 · ~*Service Worker*~

I think battered womens' service might be able to help you. they have the restraining order clinics. Generally they have the knowledge of what's what in terms of a restraining order. They can be difficult to negotiate.

On the custody thing if your stbx husband takes your son and is homeless I doubt that would go down well in the court. There are places though that you can talk to about custody issues. There are also places that write reports up on what kind of access a father should get and what is involved. Presumably he'll get some kind of visit even if he is supervised. If he continues to act out though he is likely to lose even that. If he were to take your son and be homeless I doubt that would look good.

I have been in the merrygoround of chaos many a time with the A. He's put me in some very difficult situations. I try these days not to enter into them. I think that's very difficult when one has been enmeshed. I think its also difficult when rescue has been a theme in your relationship. In so many ways this relationship has bottomed me out on rescue. I was really hooked into it before.

Obviously when an A is acting out there are a lot of feelings up. For me personally I have to deal with those feelings. I can't stuff them, I do stuff them sometimes. I have to speak personally to others about how I feel about them, the kinds of double binds I feel and what I am doing to take care of me. When the A is in crisis I feel it. I used to be in there totally over involved. These days I pull back. I don't get in there over involved anymore. I can't say it happened over night. I can say this room helped me.

Sometimes for me when the A was acting out it was very hard for me to learn what the line was between over react and under react. These days I don't walk around on eggshells. I do keep an eye on him and watch for change of moods. I also keep a distance. I no longer am in there trying to control him.

I can't imagine how exhausted you must feel with this crisis. I know living in crisis with the a for years I got totally and absolutely exhausted and there is no question at times my health was totally compromised. For me keeping a distance from the A is a health measure among other issues. When I am around him too much I feel absolutely exhausted.

Maresie.

carolinagirl · ~*Service Worker*~

Thanks for the support. I did indeed call the sheriff and ask them to serve the old restraining order from Nov. when he broke into the house. He should have it by friday if he's still there then. As for other stuff...

#1 I don't have a lawyer, NC requires 1 year separation and signed sep agreement (which I can't get) to file for divorce. The protection order gives me automatic custody until that is resolved. I don't have the money for a lawyer, I can't even pay the regular monthly bills so honestly not sure how that's going to work out.

bobump · ~*Service Worker*~

Here is my esh on TRO's. For me the sooner served would have been better. I had a domestic violence call to my house. I was given papers that gave me the right and the info to file for a TRO.

A week or so later, my A attempted suicide. I saw no use in executing the TRO while she was in the pysch unit and detox. Child Services was not thrilled to have her home, and she stayed away. She went into rehab and was released early (insurance ran out). By her own admission she was not ready for release, she had more work to do. The kids told me they weren't ready (tho sometimes they thought they might be, at least two of them were).

I got a call that she was enroute from the rehab in PA. I went to finally get that TRO.

I was denied the TRO based on the fact that there was no recent violence. There was no recent violence because she was not home.

I did not want to needlessly escalate the situation with my wife. Part of that was not wanting to kick a dog while down, part of that was, I saw no point in making things worse to gain something I already had.

If I had it to do over again? I'd file earlier rather than later.

Bob

emma · Senior Member

I've read and re-read your post ... and I think you know the answer:
"Now I hate to kick a dog when he's down but it seems like an opportune time to get this over with. It's just hard not to think how he'll feel ...."
combined with
"Problem - the kids that are involved and his seeing of them. Another issue and this is the biggie for me. Since he won't sign a separation agreement regarding custody it is open right now and he could -if he wanted to- take our son and the protection order would give me temporary custody of him."
So, my question to you is how would you feel if you did not file the TRO because you did not want to 'kick him while he was down' and because of his feeling about it all but then if he took your son?
It also crosses my mind that in Al Anon we all learn that it is not only OK, but it is part of our recovery to (with pure motives) put ourselves first in terms of taking care of ourselves. Not that we don't care for others, but we learn that we can't really take care of others until we take care of ourselves. So, wouldn't Al Anon support you setting what boundaries you need (based on past behavior) to protect yourself and your minor child?
I, too, was once faced with a similar choice and I did not act to protect me or the kids, because I was believing his words and not accepting his actions, because, in part, of his feelings. I made the wrong choice.
You know in your gut what to do, I can feel it in your post. Trust your gut.
Take what you want and leave the rest,
Yours in recovery,
emma

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.