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So I haven't seen my previous A bf in weeks...I ended a 7 year relationship because I just wanted to focus on me and my kids rather than the antics of alcoholism.
After an encounter at Target...go figure...Last week my post told about a date I went on with an man I have known for years . I didn't know he was an A and has been sober 2 years now, still working a program. That date has lead to more. In just a week...we've met for coffee , lunch, and tomorrow he has invited me to join him for the Superbowl at his sponser's house.
He is smart, attentive, charming, funny, and talks about his AA meetings and feelings about his program a great deal. And I enjoy the sharing...but at certain times he seems angry at the world. Indeed, he has all the pressures that would stress the normal non-alcoholic enormously.
He has his own business. His son has autism...I can tell this weighs heavy on his mind. His divorce is only 2 years old, which I think he lost loads of money there. He is a hard core fitness enthusiast...and says he takes fitness supplements...but it seems like they make him hyper. Lot's of reasons and A can give to drink. So he goes to meetings often...especially when he is feeling this anger. They seem to make him calmer.
I enjoy being around him, but I find myself looking for the "bomb". I know I need to focus on myself.
I'd be interested in hearing from someone who is with a recovering A. I don't know what a recovering A is supposed to act like. I haven't had the pleasure of being around sobriety for years. I just don't want to miss red flags.
I am not currently around a recovering a so I'm not sure if my opion will have any merit with you. The red flags I would be looking at are: (1) he is still feeling anger over the divorce; (2) he has an autistic son that weighs heavily on his mind; (3) he is taking suppliments that are making him hyperactive; (4) he is going to lots of meeting and discussing them with you -- which tells me that he is not far enough advanced in his recovery for you to be feeling calm and confident about his dedication to the fight. In my opinon 2 years is very short-term. (5) and this one is the biggie: he has an addictive personality. RUN.
But, again, that is only my opinion. Take what you want and leave the rest.
Your guts. Love your guts. Gut instinct is usually a right one. Red flags have gone Up UP UPPP in your head. We (codependent types) are consistently brushing warning signs off, but progress tells us to SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW down. Pay attention. Address the fears. Analyze the facts. Develop realistic opinions. Make concious decisions. Extra-especially when it comes to a partner ---- another person that has potential to be taken into our hearts and minds.
anyway, it takes guts. it takes guts to listen to your guts. it seems, at least for me, that sometimes the line gets cloudy between LONELINESS and DISCRETION.
much love and courage to you cj
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time to stop going to the hardware store to buy bread.
Before I met the A I went out on dates. I met lots of men who were newly divorced. Generally most of them were angry. I think it takes most people a while to go from grief through the process.
I think for me in making friends recently I have not been so wary of the red flags. For me after a while certain core issues come up that make them obvious. I have had to look at what I can live with and what I can't. I think for those of us who come from dysfunctionality we are often walking on eggshells.
Some people like Terry Gorski (an addiction specialist) recommend taking time to watch your potential date, how do they interact in public. Are their boundaries good. I think that is one sure issue for those of us in 12 step meetings. I don't know many who have good boundaries in the early days. I know I certainly didn't.
I also think that it very much depends on what you are looking for. Someone I met last November has become a very important friend to me. I used to speak to him every day. He is someone who is a recovered alcoholic (although he did not do AA). I see him in some ways a model for future relationships because honesty and candor is pretty important to me. I wouldn't say this man is the model of functionality he has his issues like the rest of us do. I also woudn't say he is the model for what I would want in a husband either. I used to screen people out for that reason (I was also very very comfortable with dysfunctionality hence my relationship with an active A). These days I think for me at least having an emotional partner is huge and I have found that in my friend. I also find challenge and authenticity.
For me at least relationships take a while. I know in the first rush of a relationship everything can seem perfect then reality sets in. For me in friendships (and I don't have many at the moment) commitment, support, caring are important. I have not yet worked out what is really important for me in a romantic relationship because my own defintions of what love is are somewhat skewed (as I am codependent). I know some of it in the future (and these days I do have a future) will rely on lots of thought and experiment. I have to try to make friends and experiment and be willing to be disappointed which as a codependent is pretty difficult for me.
I'd say slow down. Two years is still very early sobriety, he is still mostly focused on his own recovery, if he is doing the right thing. If he is doing the wrong thing, he is focusing on you to avoid dealing with his own issues. (Unless you are very young - maybe it would be different if you were in your teens or early twenties, but for older A's there is a lifetime of bad habits to unlearn, and a lifetime of growing up to do). Ths doesn't mean you can't enjoy this man for what he is, but you need to look at yourself, and what your expectations really are - are you focusing on HIM, in order to avoid the work you need to do on yourself? Only you can answer that, but it is important to remember that a recovering A is still an A, and will probably revert to the behaviours, if not to the drinking, when under stress. If you don't feel strong enough in your own growth not to be pulled into his sickness, you don't want to get heavily and deeply involved with him so soon. If it's right, it will still be right a couple of years from now, when you know him better, and you both know yourselves better.
Well Kicky , don't waste your time looking for red flags all a's are different and hyper is the norm , my husb has to be doing something all the time seems to be his nature I used to take it personally that he was just busy to not have to spend time with me,not so he simply needs to be busy ,period . I hope your going to Al-Anon meetings for yourself , drinking or not he is still and alcoholic that dosent go away . this disease can be arrested but never cured. good luck Louise
Thank you all for such strong responses. Once again, I realize I have lots of work to do on me. Today, I will focus on me, my kids, my health. Tonight, I'll go to the Superbowl party with him with no expectations. I'll just enjoy myself and let my Hp handle the rest. I will make all efforts to attempt not to mold this into what I want it to be...and just let it be.
Like all recovering A as well as us Alanoners, there is no cookie cutter science with their behavior. As someone whos degree is in human behavior, there are patterns. But nothing is set is stone. There are some people who are dry drunks. There are some who never do the AA thing and have years of sobriety behind them. The anger he may be feeling, may come from his divorce vs. the dry drunk syndrome. I can't tell you how he will react because I don't know him. But as my for my A (9months sober) he's not a dry drunk. He has his moments when he gets cranky because his sleep schedule is a mess and they are tweaking his meds. It has very little to do with the fact that he's sober. It does help a great deal mind you. It's the same way with our recoveries. Right now, I'm not doing what I should be doing, for whatever reason. I can see it. My reactions to him have not been what I normally expect from me. But I am also dealing with some inner deamons that seemed to have surfaced as of late. But your recovery may be going better than mine.
Keep in mind that we are all human beings with all the joys and foibles that go along with it. Trust your instinct, and HP. They will guide you where you need to go. Most important: HAVE FUN!
Love and blessings to you and your family.
Live strong, Karilynn & Pipers Kitty
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It's your life. Take no prisoners. You will have it your way.
(((((Kicky)))) First off, I think you should be giving yourself a pat on the back that you are aware of all the things (red flags or whatever they may be called) you shared in your post. Awareness makes everything else possible. What Maresie said really struck a chord with me. I have learned that I need to slow things down ... and when I pull myself back from that luscious adreneline rush that I let lead me into relationships in the past, then I can see better what is going on. I've learned that anyone who wants to spend lots of time together early on (whether a friend or more) is a red flag. This was the case with my now ex (a poster child for dry drunk behavior, including his charm), both in terms of our early relationship and quick proposal, and it was interesting to "see" his behavior (rather than experience it as the target) when he was focusing on his current wife. I try not to close the door on a friendship just because we really enjoy spending time together, could be just fine, but I slow down so that I am not responding to the adreneline rush ... I look and see how this person treats me and others. I catch myself before I explain away their behavior. I do not expect perfection from myself or from others; I have come to expect respect and progress. And the only way I can see progress in myself is over time. I can't really see progress in myself each day, but I do see progress from where I was 6 months or a year ago. IF I'm going to give myself that much time, I want to give it to others also. I've learned that I made bad choices when in the throws of that luscious adreneline rush, and I certainly did not see clearly. I've learned that good folks will give their friends time; and so if someone expresses anger or irritation that I won't dedicate significant amount of time with them, well, that is important information for me to have, and quite likely it is a red flag. I've learned that who I was naturally attracted to was related to my experiences in my family of origin, including loving the feeling of that adreneline rush which I often thought was being "in love." So, given the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result .... and given that my best thinking got me here .... I'm now trying giving myself and others time for us to get to know each other, and while, by definition, this takes time, I've got to say my life is better, and the people in my life are more loving and supportive than at any other time in my life. As always, take what you want and leave the rest. Thanks for the post, it helped me think some things through. Yours in recovery, emma
