The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
My A is my husband - been married almost 23 years. About four - five years ago I started to realize he had real problems with alcohol. I've done everything I can think of - yelled, cried, badgered, reasoned, been compassionate... You know what I mean - we've all been there.
Sometimes I think if he "just drank" it wouldn't be so bad. He doesn't go to the bars - drinks on the sly at home. The problem is he has never once fully admitted he does this - he is in such deep denial it's scary. However, he is now getting mean, agitated, belligerent, paranoid, etc. It's this mean behavior that is really getting to the kids and myself.
I've been going to Al Anon off and on since August and logging in here when I can. (I recently had surgery and am doing physical therapy 3X week, so I just can't get out any more than that.)
Anyway, I wonder if my staying - helping to provide a good income, taking care of most of his needs, allowing him to be with the kids as much as he wants - is this a type of enabling? He really has no consequences for his drinking as he hasn't missed any work EVER for it (I don't think he drinks during the workday) and has never had a DUI.
I'm considering a separation wondering if this would shake him enough to get help. There is no other "bottom" I can see happening at this point. Or is that just too manipulative? The other reason I'm considering the separation is he and my sixteen-year-old son are constantly at each other. This is beyond the usual stuff - my son is really angry about the changes he has seen in his dad, his denial, etc. It has become physical a couple of times, and my son has expressed wanting to live apart from his dad.
I am really confused (can you tell?) at this point. I know I should get back to the f2f meetings, but right now it's almost impossible.
First Welcome to MIP. Sounds like you are already familure with the program, but I am sure glad you found us. This can be an invaluable resource.
In my opinion, staying (in and of itself) is certainly not enabling. I went through the same thought process recently and the one thing I had to give myself time for, was the motivations for whatever action I decided to take. Taking any action for the express purpose of getting him to do something will likely lead to more resentments.
Now in my case, I didn't want to seperate. We have a 12 year old son, and her behavior towards me and around him just got so disruptive and abusive that I decided that "I" didn't want to live that way. So we did seperate 3 months ago.
I have been very clear with her that if she decides she wants to get sober and stay that way that I will be more than ready to work on all our other issues. I need her to be firmly planted in reality before I am willing to expend the energy on our relationship. Before I was really sure that all of those things were what "I" wanted.... I just kept hitting meetings and working to understand my needs.
Getting in touch with my own needs was much more of a chore than I could have imagined. I was that much of a mess. But it was well worth it. I now realize that I have still just scratched the surface.
I hope you will continue to post here, this is a wonderful family.
Take care of you!
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"Good judgement comes from experience... experience comes from bad judgement" - unknown
I want to know that answer too. I was told to work the program for six months before making any decisions, so I am giving myself six months. My reason for staying with my A is that I am scared of the choices he will make (and the consequences) if he doesn't have me to depend on. My goal right now is to get to as many meetings as possible, on-line or f2f, so that I can stop focusing on HIM and start looking at what is best for ME and my daughter. I can't believe how hard something that sounds so easy can be. Take care of yourself. I will be watching the responses to your post, just as closely as you will likely be. Thanks for posting!
For me I left. I had to. But Iam not married and have no children with him so some would say that makes it all easier!
I saw him slip to the chronic stage of his disease. I went through all the dramas, traumas repeatidly. Looking back I'm amazed I endured so much. Anyway eventually, I left. Maybe I reached my own rock bottom.
He's still drinking as far as I know.
I know I cannot advise you Fozzie. What ever you decide to do has to come from yourself. And you will make the decision thats right for you and your life.
But I do know that it is not wise to give him an ultimatum that you do not intend to carry out.
I believe that the A will do whatever he is going to do...regardless of what we say or do. If he is going to get sober...he will do it with or without you. You have no control over this. You know this already anyway.....
You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't change it
We would mostly say, here, not to leave if you are leaving in order to get him to sober up, and not to stay if you are staying in order to take care of him. In other words, make your decisions according to your own needs and desires, not because of what you feel the effect will be on him. As others have said, this is easier said than done - most of us have spent so much of our lives revolving around the A, and others, that we don't know how to tell what WE want. That is why we advise getting really into the program for 6 months - by then you should have some idea of what you want. For your son- I have teens myself, my son was 13 when my husband sobered up, my daughter 12, four years ago - please know that the saner you get YOURSELF, the better for him. If he is willing, and it is available, alateen works. If he isn't, you might want to look into some form of counselling, for him to learn ways to deal with this. Just having a safe place to vent his frustration and anger would do him good. If you can keep yourself grounded, you can be this safe place, if he will allow it. Neither of my kids wanted much to do with alateen, but they have always, and continue to, talk to me, and are doing OK. I see the effects of their childhoods in them, but they seem to be finding ways above and around it. There IS hope, just take it easy, try not to let the A influence all parts of your life.
HI Fozzie, Like everyone else, I can't really tell you if staying or going is right. I know that I was ready to leave a year ago. I had finally fully accepted that this disease would kill him and I did not want to be around to watch. I decided that leaving was the best thing I could do for me. Then something changed. So I stayed instead. 3 months later my AH created a crisis for himself and was told he had to go to treatment or lose a stripe. He went, and by the grace of God, embraced the treatment and AA program. He will be sober 6 months next week, and I am so grateful I stayed.
Whatever your decision, it has to be made because you believe it will be right for you. If you are staying to take care of him, you are probably enabling. If you are staying for your own reasons, then I would say you aren't.
Good Luck, I am sure you will make the deciosion taht is right for you.
I can only offer my opinion to your question(s). I would have to say that staying is no more enabling as it is controlling simply because neither course of action is an act to do what is best for you. There are so many factors that go into making that type of decision. I would also suggest that your choice doesn't reason around what is best for your son either. Again the decision is best made looking only within yourself. The reason I say this is because if your son picks up the disease (and they can and do) would staying with your son be enabling? I have found that working the program helps me to better know how to communicate my boundaries and look at what changes are necessary in my life that is within my power to change. Our slogan "let it begin with me" implies that changes within the household can many time begin with the change in ourselves as we take the focus off our alcoholics. We are glad that you are here and are asking questions! Keep coming back!
if you have some al-anon books -(Courage to Change, One day at a Time in Al-Anon) maybe try reading some of pages on enabling - these may help you know what you feel may be enabling behaviors for you.
Glad you are here with us - hope you heal quickly from surgery
Progress not perfection, Rita
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No matter what me and my God are going to be ok, even better than OK -
I had left many time in the hope that it would jar him into stopping. note I said many times. Usually I was back within weeks, hoping it had worked this time. Once before it was four months and I filed for divorce and got hooked with the jealousy angle. Now, it has been almost 6 months and I don't see us getting back together anytime soon! He's tried the jealousy angle, the custody angle and now it just is what it is. When I left this time I didn't leave with the hope that he would change, I left with the certainty that he wouldn't. I got tired of living my life based on the hope that he was going to get better someday and decided I want to live in reality. It's harder, I'm broke but I have NO chaos in my life now and I have 3 kids so that's saying a lot.
Well for me the staying or leaving is irrelevant. The A is just one part of the huge codependence issue for me. Certainly I have a plan b and someday I will be able to execute it to the end. I am in phase one at the moment. The issue for me even in being in plan b and not being so obsessed with the A behavior is not to let my whole focus be "it". I have to live in the interim!!!!
There is a suggestion in Al anon to not make any major changes while we let the program seep in. For me its been more than a year of program to start even visioning how far my codependence goes. I have made changes lot sof them in how I deal with others. The A is just one among them. The issue for me is "me" not him. He has a substance abuse issue I have my own. I can't focus too much on what he does although I certainly acknowledge it. I also acknowledge that my issues (with controlling martyring, perfecting, obsessing, people pleasing) fits his irresponsibility, cheating, sneaking, knight in shining armor for everyone but me stuff. Changing me has affected the A he is better but not that much better!!!! I'd like to wave a magic wand but he has his own path.
I once lived with an alcoholic husband who went to AA after I left him. I know my leaving him had very little to do with his going to AA. He has not spoken to me since there were no amends nothing. He has a functional life now from what I can tell my leaving, staying or whatever had nothing much to do with his decision to get sober. I choose actively not to engage with him for many reasons. I only very very recently did the necessary 4th step work to work through much of the stuff I did in that relationship that contributed to my seething resentment that nearly choked and killed me to paralysis for years.
Hi, I don't believe staying is enabling unless you get to the point where you believe it is.
I've stayed with my husband who is a dry drunk. It has made me stronger in that I've learned not to allow anyone to abuse me in any way. I don't accept verbal abuse or emotional abuse. When my husband begins to verbally abuse me, I say "stop" and walk away.
It hasn't always been that way. Years ago, when my husband looked like he was going to physically abuse me, I did leave him. I shouldn't have gone back at that time, but I did because I wasn't making ends meet financially. I stayed away as long as I could and he kept begging to come back. That took care of my fear of being physically abused and I've never again been afraid that he will physically abuse me.
I try to live one day at a time and I decide each day whether or not I'll leave or stay. Financially, I'm in better shape now and could get by.
The more I live and let live and stay out of his business, the better it gets. We live like brother/sister, but we get along okay now. I'm involved in activities and live a pretty good life.
If I ever do leave, it will be for me, not him. He's going to do whatever he wants to do. My motto is "if it's good for me, it's good for him (or anyone else)". Thanks to Al-anon, I'm taking better care of myself than I ever have.
