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Post Info TOPIC: Flipped the Script


Senior Member

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Posts: 180
Date:
Flipped the Script


My AW and I are moving towards divorce. I believe it is the best thing I can do for myself now. Last week's incident ( some of you saw my other post) was an extreme display of the constant badness that runs in our relationship. My wife is truly a wonderful person but also disturbed in many ways. She also suffers from a chronic illness which, while not super severe has caused havoc on her physically, emotionally and has insidiously impacted our entire lives. 

In spite of being mistreated, ignored, undermined and viewed with general disgust I tried to hang in. For over ten years so this is not a hasty decision for me and I've gone through heartbreak many times as I thought out marriage was going over the cliff. I pretty much was done when I started Al-Anon this winter and then had even greater understanding of how bad our relationship was. The closest she has come to seeking help was when she went to AA for a few months. She quit and has continued drinking. 

Nothing has changed. I am done and she made it clear she was too. Now she has changed her mind. She is bombarding me with messages of love and reconciliation. She is completely beside herself with fear and anguish over yet another person abandoning her. She has few friends and none that she trusts enough to talk her through this. She keeps begging me not to end it. Asking if I'm sure. 

I'm sticking to the plan but the guilt is building. She is truly like a heartbroken little girl who never recovered from the utter devastation of her own parents' divorce and their abuse of their kids. Even though I know this breakup is the natural consequences of everything that happened before I still feel like I'm just kicking this sad hurt lonely little girl. It makes me sick. 



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~*Service Worker*~

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((Westman)) You have a kind compassionate loving heart. I do so understand your concern and pain. Please keep using your tools of detachment, prayer and trusting HP. One day at a time this will resolve itself.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


Veteran Member

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Hi westman, I have followed your posts and its such a hard time, and you are doing amazing! I am in the process of separating from my AH at the moment too. We have a 3 year old daughter and our marital decline was long and things came to an ugly head for us as well. He is doing everything he can to push for reconciliation- it is painful to see the person I love fighting against the distressing end he created. It is heartbreaking and painful. I try and remember we are driven by the need to rescue and fix - and those feelings, while incredibly strong and powerful are not love! And also, how totally broken things are and how they will never fit back together. I am just sharing that for me, 3 months in, I am stronger and continue to see why I am fleeing my relationship. In time when there are small cracks in his kind facade, my AH reveals that he is the same and simply trying to persuade me and make me believe things are different Without doing the work. Be strong! Either way get some space from the situation, you truly deserve that at the very least. 



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~*Service Worker*~

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(((Westman))) and (((VickiR))) - sending both of you positive thoughts and prayers. That's about the best I can offer outside of what's been suggested - lean into the program and trust your HP/Progress. One Day at a Time is always a god-sent message for me in the middle of the storm.

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



~*Service Worker*~

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I'm sorry it's came to this for you both. It's a horrible disease. I also ended it despite all the reasons why it was such a sad thing for him and there was many. I got to the point where I had had enough. I couldn't live a moment longer with his drinking in the driver seat. I actually felt like if I continue with this it will be the same s*** over and over for another 20 yrs. For What? I couldn't change him or make him better. He was holding tightly to all the sob stories the begging crying etc because all that had always worked. He had such power and when I took the power back wow he didn't like that one but and he pulled out the big guns the old poor me i had a terrible childhood crap in an attempt to get his way. What was his way though? For me it was me giving up any chance of a life with happiness or peace or joy because these things were of no interest to him. He wanted to drink with the least disruption or opposition possible so I was to shut up and get to like it. No. I left and he wallowed for a while then when no-one was around to watch he got sober and has been since and good luck to him. I'm working on my own emotional sobriety so I've got enough to do. I hope you see through the little girl lost act and make the choices that are good for you.



-- Edited by hotrod on Friday 6th of October 2017 08:49:38 PM

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~*Service Worker*~

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I'm sorry Westman, I've seen you trying to hold it all together with kindness and love, that is what I see in your posts. At the end of the day we have a strong and healthy pull to take our own lives forward on the paths that holds positive growth for us. I remember a time when I used to think that my husband had chosen a path that I could not join him on and perhaps it is similar for you now?

This is such a sad disease but well done for changing the script. As for the guilt, whose voice is telling you that you are kicking a sad and lonely girl? I've felt like your wife does and I finally realised that a knight in shining armour was not going to rescue me, it is my responsibility to take care of my 'inner child.' That realisation was a gift that I feel grateful for, despite all the pain, because it taught me that I could take care of myself. I hope the same transpires for your wife. Sometimes I was taking on responsibilities for another person's happiness that were not mine to take and I ended up adding to the disabling of their resilience and coping strategies in the process. It ain't easy, but it is worth it.

Sending huge (((((hugs)))))

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~*Service Worker*~

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Aloha Westman and Ugh I say and I have been there also I say too.  I've divorced twice both from the disease of addiction with the second one being a game changer for me.  I learned a lot because of the program and the fellowship which gathered around me and shared their awesome spiritual ESH and who responded to my questions "Can you please help me"?  as I was taking the Al-Anon suggestion of "If you keep and open mind you will find help..."  I did it program way and not my way  and it was like I was back in NASA working in the next launch...which kinda sorta made sense.  Working with a truly inspirational sponsor who allowed me grace and compassion to do the suggestions the best way I could and then keep coming back for more instruction.  The consequence after the divorce and then the split was my now ex-wife and I were truly in love without having a reason to be married which is where we should have started at.

Ask for help from the experiences of other members...specially guys in the program and see how much you can learn before making the choice.   Good luck to you and your wife...I know how she feels also.   ((((hugs))))  smile



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Senior Member

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I got back from the ER a few hours ago. I had taken my son to a weekly game night at some friend's house when calls started coming through. Cell reception there is poor and I didn't get them until almost an hour later, my mother-in-law imploring me to come home immediately. By the time I called the ambulance was already on the way to the hospital. My wife had gotten drunk and possibly taken pills, most likely benzodiazepines. I went to see her and I could barely stand it. I used to work in that ER. I spent many hours in the same room she was in. Her nurse is a friend of mine. I am only on about 3 hours of sleep in the last 38 or so and trying to speak with him and the doctor I could barely form coherent sentences.

Earlier today my AW's sister called me, concerned. My wife had finally called her and her sister floated the idea that my wife go stay with her for a couple weeks out of state and let things settle a little bit. I was fine with this. I didn't tell the sister anything that has been going on, all she knew was that divorce is impending. I tried to place principles over personalities. My wife messaged me and said she also wanted to take our youngest. I was so tempted. I wanted to avoid conflict or hurting her feelings and just say "ok." My mind gave me several rationales for why it would be ok. She loves the kids, she's never hurt them before, etc. But something inside me clearly said "No." So I messaged back that I was not ok with taking her out of state. She replied with a couple irritated messages but finished on discussing later. I planned to stand firm. No kids leave the state, that is a boundary that I won't back off on until a judge tells me otherwise.

My wife did this with both of our daughters, one of their friends and her mother in the house. My mother-in-law kept the kids safe and occupied with a movie. Now, I must make the s**ty decision to request full custody. I'm not sure what else to do. This endangered our kids and someone else's. I'm going to try to sleep for awhile, your continued suggestions and prayers are appreciated.

-Westman



-- Edited by hotrod on Saturday 7th of October 2017 07:55:50 AM

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~*Service Worker*~

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(((((Westman)))))

Sometimes it feels like chaos seeks us out, however much we are trying to seek peace - ugh! Sleep well, you deserve it. Sending prayers for you all in the meantime.

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~*Service Worker*~

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(((Westman))) - so, so very sorry for the outcome of the evening. Love that you are seeking self-care through much-needed and much-deserved sleep. I fully hear you and I hear compassion, care, concern and logical thinking. Love hearing that your 'gut' helped with the out-of-state decision. Those scenarios in my recovery are the small miracles I found after I began Al-Anon.

I am also sending you tons of positive thoughts and prayers. Breathe in and do what you can to stay present. (((Hugs)))

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



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I hope you get some much needed rest... I'm so sorry to hear of the current insanity in your life, take care, ((((hugs)))).

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Senior Member

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(((Westman))). I hope you are getting rest.

That little voice you heard? That was your HP! Glad you are open and listening... your kids will benefit!

IMHO, your AW will eventually try and manipulate her sister and your youngest may be there unprotected from your wife's alcohol abuse. So stay strong in not allowing them to leave the state! You got this!

Namaste

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Music makes my soul soar!


Veteran Member

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(((Westman))) I could have almost written your post just different circumstances. (See my thread STILL Dealing with Guilt) just posted today. I kicked my AH out after his affair and he's all about singing the "I'll change if you just take me back" blues. I too feel very guilty for not giving in, even though I know I shouldn't! He hasn't quit drinking at all. I haven't found the answer yet for dealing with the guilt. But it helps me to remind myself of all the reasons why I'm doing this. Best wishes.

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Senior Member

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Spoke with my wife by phone yesterday several times. She was admitted to the psych unit. I was so angry. Still am I guess. She's minimizing what happened. Says she doesn't remember. Talks about how much she loves the kids blah blah blah.

I had to fill her in on how she came into the room where the kids were watching a movie and had our 9 year old daughter dancing with her. I was out with our son and didn't know any of this. She then fell over crashing into some stuff. When my daughter was telling me this she then looked at the ground and said "...and that scared me." 

My wife is crying because she feels I'm yelling at her. Maybe I am but I am trying to get through to her how serious this is. 



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~*Service Worker*~

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(((Westman))) - sending you, your wife and the kids more positive thoughts and prayers. One of my sons has been in the 72 hour psych. hold as well as my cousin. It took practice but I used the professionals as a messenger. Told them what they needed her to know and then let it go.

I am hoping you are taking good care of you/kids. She's in good hands no matter what she/you/anyone thinks.

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



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Westman, I'm so sorry for the chaos you are going through. I understand your anger; I've felt the same. I agree with Iamhere to use the professionals as much as possible.

My suggestion is to share as much information with the kids as they can understand. Otherwise, kids can imagine that it's their fault, or have other fears that aren't accurate. It might also help the kids to be able to do something ... maybe make cards for her, or anything where they don't feel helpless.

Are there resources at the hospital to help you plan for when she is released? I know this can be a very scary time. Please reach out for whatever help is available, and know that this too shall pass.

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a4l


~*Service Worker*~

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Sorry Westman. It's a horrible disease for all. I admire your continued compassion hand in hand with strength. My prayers for you, your children and their mother. Take care of you, sleep and eat.

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"When one door is closed, don't you know,another is open?" Bob Marley.



~*Service Worker*~

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Prayers for you and your kids, WestMan.

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Skorpi

If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu



Senior Member

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Thank you for all the kind and wise words. I'm not getting much from the unit. No contact except from my wife. I'm getting a good lesson in being powerless here. She might possibly be released today. I'm super scared about it. I don't want her to come home. I will be filing a restraining order but courts are closed for Columbus day. I didn't like Columbus before but now I really hate that guy. 

My wife told me that I'm supposed to go in to the hospital today to talk to someone. I don't know what about. If anyone has experience with this I would love to hear it. Can I request she be held another day? I was told they may be able to help me with a temporary restraining order but I'm not counting on that. Ugh this is hard but I know some of you have been through worse and made it. 

When I think about this program my heart is filled with so much gratitude that I stepped through that door. I can imagine how much worse off me and my family would be if I didn't have this. I still don't know much about the Higher Power. I've just tried to keep an open mind but I think there must be something to it and the realization is more powerful than this overwhelming situation. 



-- Edited by WestMan on Monday 9th of October 2017 08:30:50 AM

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~*Service Worker*~

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(((Westman))) - I do have a bit of experience. When last my son was held, he was a juvenile so that experience is different as I was legally responsible for him until 18.

I have a cousin who has been help multiple times. Most likely, they want to discuss her discharge plan. I would attend as this is your opportunity to get help from a professional on setting boundaries for you, your children and her. It's also an opportunity to go on record as far as she needs an interim lodging facility as the family home is off-limits until stability is present.

In most cases, you don't have input on her length of stay - that's determined by the facility and the experts. However, these people have the knowledge about alternatives that exist as a step-down between intake/discharge/reintegration with family.

I'm in KS and I don't know how different things are from state to state. I hope this helps - I did get a chuckle out of your view of Columbus!!! Make it the best day you possible can - sending love and light.

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



Senior Member

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I am sorry you are going through this. If you are afraid that your wife is still at risk for hurting herself I would speak to someone where she is at. You would have to talk to a magistrate about a restraining order, I think. You can call and ask anyways. My ex-abf tried a couple of times to overdose. I hope things get better soon.

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Sharon 



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I don't know what to think about her potential actions and that's the problem. She swears that she wouldn't hurt the kids but she would have made the same statement last week and here we are. I'm bushed so I'll have to check in later.

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~*Service Worker*~

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I never liked Columbus, either Although the holiday serves as a reminder to get my dad a birthday card each year, so I suppose it does have its advantages...

I hope you were able to get some answers from the hospital staff, if you went to the meeting. It sounds like the time and space has given you room to think about what you and your kids need. Try to hold tight to that.

Sending positive thoughts for your next steps, post-Columbus day.

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Skorpi

If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu



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Hi Westman,
I have no personal experience with this specific type of situation but I wanted to say that you are handling this so well. What a stressful situation and what a wonderful thing it is that you can be the one to be there for your kids. I am so grateful to the program for that piece. It gives me the strength to keep moving forward and not get sucked into the vortex of chaos with the alcoholic and that allows me to be there for my daughter.

Take it one day at a time maybe even one moment at a time. I find that I have learned to trust that small quiet voice inside me. The decisions I make when I slow down and listen to that voice are good decisions. The loud fear inside me can muffle that voice sometimes but if I can get peaceful enough I hear it.

Sending you strength and positive thoughts as you go through this very difficult time.

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~*Service Worker*~

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(((Westman))) - my biggest obstacle during times of crisis was often 'me'. I do consider myself intelligent and good at reading people and that did NOT serve me well when mental health issues rise to the surface. I have issues with control, rather when I feel I lack it, and crisis just tends to make me go into overthinking, over-analyzing and some reasonably complicated thinking processes. Once upon a time, a counselor suggested to me that I really had to use actions to help me decide best course of action.

Where you all are today is a direct result of an unexpected, unanticipated decision brought about by a sick person. One thing that recovery has taught me is that actions do speak louder than words. I figure if someone is telling me what they are/are not going to do/be/etc. then there is no reason is allowing some time to pass to see if the actions align with the words. She very definitely believes in her heart and mind what she's saying. However, people in crisis don't realize that harm to the children can come in forms that are not direct. My cousin had her child taken twice (he's young) because she was neglectful. She was home with him all the time but not 'present' as she was in crisis mode.

Finally, her child was placed permanently with his birth father who's been in prison since he was born (he's five now). I loved him enough to let him go and have a chance with a parent who seems to love him - time will tell. So - rest when you can, say exactly what you need to/mean and mean what you say while not saying it mean. Mental health patients can be as manipulative as alcoholics (in my experience) so it's overwhelming at times.

Hang in there - sending continued thoughts and prayers your way! (((Hugs)))

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



Senior Member

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The hardest part has been seeing the kids struggle with her absence. They are acting out in various ways depending on their ages. It breaks my heart but I just remember that they are safe. 

As we are apart her disease becomes more apparent. She takes zero responsibility for anything. I've never seen her quite like this but I think it was there under the surface. She is upset after I sent her copies of the forms detailing her behavior. Which is understandable. But she's also begun making low level veiled threats. One friend got ahold of me to let me know she had made some statements regarding my sexuality. This did not surprise me. That is her easy target. 



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hello westman

read thru todays posts and so many things went thru my head in hindsite in my dealings with alchies.   turning 60 dec and lately in a reflective mood.  I totally sympathize with what you are going thru.   I got lost in all the drama for many years.   basically I lost myself.  when I found alanon it was like ppl speaking a foreign language for a while.  looking back now....I regret all the years of my life I wasted rotating myself around alchies......there drama's, taking on most of the responsibilities of their lives, ect ect.....the influence it all had my son....we worked opposite shifts so he had his exposure to it all while I worked.....he ended up being alchie and drug addict and died of it all at 32.  the powerful influence a stable home life has vs an alchie home life.   I never understood the concept of.....no one is safe being around an alchie.....until I was well away from it all.    it affects a person on all levels.....physical health and safety, mental wellness and spiritual well being.   if she wasn't your wife......would you have her around the kids?   alchie is alchi friend, family or other.   she coulda fell over on daughter, fell into something that fell on her and injured her...put her in a car and drove impaired......its hard to step back and see the big picture of it all when in the middle of it all.   I used to point the finger onto the alchie in stuff and reasonably so.....it took some time to see my part in it. for all the dramas I went thru.....I either allowed it, invited it in my life, or encouraged it.....



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~*Service Worker*~

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(((WestMan))) change is hard for kids. I can just hear them asking for stability through their acting out. (Can we trust this stability? Can we make it go away?) I would be willing to bet that they will settle down and settle in when they see that their acting out doesn't rattle you or change things. When they realize this, they will feel safe.

And, in her accusations, I am hearing your wife saying "I do not want this change. This makes fueling my addiction harder."

You are doing great.

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Skorpi

If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu



Senior Member

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Thank you.

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Senior Member

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You all are so complimentary LoL. I look at some of these older posts and I'm all over the place. Doing better today after getting six whole hours of sleep.

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~*Service Worker*~

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(((Westman))) - you are doing great. If it feels uncomfortable, it is ... changing from accepting the insanity of the disease to having sane thoughts and boundaries is hard for others to accept. I know my life would be easier if I could just tell my boys my boundaries and they follow them. Not.So.Here...

I have to compassionately remind them often that my boundaries are because I care - about self, them and the future. This disease places handcuffs on all of us and getting the keys and setting self free is a necessary step for sanity, growth and tomorrow.

My guys here were absolutely sideways when I established boundaries and confidence. I had allowed the disease so much control that I truly was no different than a doormat on the floor. I raised my brows when they broke the law and almost all other behaviors were ignored or tolerated as I had no confidence in how to 'make them' different. That's where Al-Anon became so valuable and necessary for me as it showed me how to change me and not them and gave me back enough sanity to no longer tolerate intolerable behavior.

I used, Say What You Mean, Mean What You Say and Don't Say it Mean OFTEN. When I wasn't certain I could not say it mean, I would take a break. I allowed myself the luxury of processing with my HP to make the best decisions/choices based on where things were at that time. Never perfect, but forward.

Hang in there - keep coming back - lean into the program and you will continue to see growth!! Continued prayers and positive thoughts for all.


__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



Senior Member

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Just took my oldest two kids to their first Al-Ateen meeting.



-- Edited by WestMan on Wednesday 11th of October 2017 08:54:39 PM

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~*Service Worker*~

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Woo-hoo Westman!!! I have faith that they are in good hands. Way to take action that is forward.

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



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Ok I was nervous taking them in but they really really liked it and want to return. We were all so relaxed and even having fun on the drive home.



-- Edited by WestMan on Wednesday 11th of October 2017 11:50:09 PM

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~*Service Worker*~

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That is good news Westman. It makes me so grateful for the power and gift of recovery. Thank you for the update - positive thoughts and prayers continue.

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



~*Service Worker*~

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That's brilliant news, getting your kids to alateen. There is so much hope for your whole family and you all deserve that. It makes me grateful to be part of this fellowship to read posts like yours.

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Senior Member

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That is so amazing to hear Westman! I agree with Iamhere hey are in good hands :)

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Senior Member

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So glad to hear about the kids going to Alateen. I believe they will forever be grateful to you for taking them.

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Veteran Member

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Great News Westman Good Job

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I pray that I may keep my eyes trained above the horizon of myself: I pray that I may see infinite possibilities for spiritual growth. 



Senior Member

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Westman,
You are doing such a great job with your kids. I think change is hard and they might thrive on maintaining what you can of normalcy. I am glad you got some sleep too. Everything seems a little better with a good nights sleep.

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Sharon 

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