The material presented
here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method
to exchange
information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal
level.
I have been in deep thought about my relationship with the abf. We have a house together and I went and got an apartment, as a plan B. I still have not moved any of my belongings into the apartment from the house. What am I waiting for? He has now been sober for 10 plus days and says this time, he is really done with the drinking. I want to believe him but its the same pattern. Goes on a major bender and gets sick as sick can be..near hospitalization and then sobers up, gets a job and stays sober and then starts drinking again and loose the job, and all hell breaks loose again. I then am feeling trapped and scared. Now that I have my apartment, I see that he is trying to get his life back on track and making an effort to stay sober. I should be happy that he is trying but its the same pattern that I have endured for over a year now that we lived together. I had an apartment prior but gave it up last February and moved in with him at the house. I feel uncertain and scared that he will start up again. I have talked to other al-anon members and they said to move things into the apartment now and see how things go with abf. I have boxes at the house ready to pack up my belongings with but I have not made an effort to put anything in them. I am doing the wait and see game. I am feeling so undecided and scared about the what if, what if...I know the future is uncertain, but I have fears of what if he starts drinking what will I do then? I know I will be packing pretty fast. He is such a great guy when he is sober and I love him but when he start drinking, its 24 hours a day, non stop talking to himself. Its brutal. I feel like when do I know when its time to pack and leave for good? I know this time, I will not return to the house or the relationship if I leave. I just know it in my heart. I do not know how long this sobriety will last and my thoughts are what if he starts drinking and its winter time, what are you going to do? And then I would be angry at myself for not taking actions earlier. I keep hearing in my head, he will go back to the drinking, he will go back...its a matter of time. He had sobriety for 14 years prior and says this time he is done, but is he really done. Then my other thoughts say, maybe he is done with the booze this time, and a miracle can happen. Its back and forth..yes/no, yes/no. Then I go what is love? Do I love him or pity him or feel sorry for him? I know when we are together and he is sober, it feels so right, like this is where I am to be. What is keeping me from taking action? I am so confused with myself. Why can I not make the move to my apartment and take my things there? what is holding me back. Am I being realistic? Sane? What is holding me back from taking action?
What is wrong with you??? You, my friend are a victim of a disease called alcoholism. What I see is growth in yourself and in your program. I see a person getting stronger and listening to that little voice within and I'm betting it keeps getting louder and louder. I believe this voice gets louder as we learn how to listen to it (and to understand the feelings inside).
Your concern over your A's behavior is well justified and reasonable. Perhaps you could give yourself a nudge and just pack a few clothes and deliver one box at a time. This way, if you have to lead in a real hurry, you will have clothes to wear. Then perhaps some other supplies like cooking and bedding, just in case. One box at a time, unless YOU feel like moving more. If your littles voice starts screaming, don't close it off and smother it, listen and listen closely. This is the voice of reason especially when we can't come to a decision on our own. If violence eruptes, it is imperative to go immediately and you could I likely be in serious danger if you try to pack and move then.
I am not saying to leave him, that is something only you can decide, but I do wish you would begin considering moving a box or two. If asked (and you were uncomfortable saying why you decided to pack), you could simply have "decided to declutter" and remove lesser used items to somewhere "out of the way".
We have all had to make "the decision" with our A's at some point. Perhaps this is your point of decision.
For me this is the obsession. The drinker is obsessed with the drink, like a constant dripping tap that increases in urgency and we are the exact same, we are addicted to the person. Addicted to trying to control and change the facts of our lives with them. What are you waiting on? what have you always been waiting on? For me, I was waiting on it working out my way. Stubborn, yes, immature, yes. I wanted it my way. I wanted him to get sober and we would live happily ever after, a complete fairy story. This was my denial.
So hes sober, is he in a program addressing the underlying issues of his disease? if not then of course its a matter of time.
I got to the stage that I believed that even being in his life in the smallest way was enabling. When I walked away not for punishment but for my own life and when everyone else decided it was too painful watching him slip away he got the empty space to practice his drinking to the max and live fully with those consequences without anyone interfering, reprimanding, helping, give sympathy etc and that space let him decide for himself that he didn't want that life. He has been sober ever since. He knows his drinking will be a lonely road because Alanon gave me and in turn our adult children the courage to do what is right for us. We will not take part in his self destruction.
-- Edited by el-cee on Friday 26th of August 2016 04:03:01 AM
I am a similar situation, so all of your words are so good to hear and just a sign I need to spend more time on this board. My a is extremely functional, so many people would be so surprised. After years of fighting it, I made the decision it must just be me. I stopped reading all literature and going to mtgs. His family Ives far away and all drinks so no one else had an issue with his drinking, so it must be me. I was tired of thinking I might leave so settled into a long denial stage. He would get verbally mean when he drank, but I could handle that. Then when we got home from a recent vacation, my 20 year old daughter poured out to me how she had caught her dad drinking while driving when they were driving 70 miles an hour on the way to vacation. She poured out several accounts of her interactions with him. The killer was her saying "Why am I not enough?". It made me realize how it was a family disease that had affected all of us. My youngest is a senior so I am trying to hold on until the end of the year but making plans. This time I haven't discussed it with him and am just slowly working the program. I was doing well but last night had an out burst with him. Today I am calling a therapist so I have a place to put my anger . I am hoping that I get strong and the path becomes clearer. It is hardest for me not to get angry that I am not enough even though my intellect knows better than to think that way... So much anger.
This is the way I look at it. The overall condition we have is addiction. I mean those of us who know we would be better off leaving, who have endured a lot of pain and chaos, and try to leave, and yet still don't leave. But what is addiction? I think it is overwhelming emotions. Like: if you just sit and think about leaving, really doing it, what emotions run through you? I'm not saying to say out loud here, but just to try it and think about it. When I used to try it, over and over, I'd feel cold and extremely upset and horrified and terrified. Really hard-to-endure emotions. I think those are the same emotions alcoholics get when they think about a day without alcohol. They drink to numb the emotions. We stay with them to numb the emotions.
So one way to proceed is to tough it out with the emotions. But that's the hard way and it makes it all too likely that we'll go back even if we don't want to.
The easier way is to do the work to change those emotions before they happen. To get lots of support, so there won't be the "I'll be alone! No one will help me!" emotion. To challenge the ideas that provoke the other emotions, like "I'll never find anyone as good as this" or "If this doesn't work out I'm a failure" or "He's the only one who can save me" and all those ideas that have gotten implanted in our heads. When we go into recovery and work the steps, those ideas might still be there, but we can detach them and see them as F.E.A.R. = False Evidence Appearing Real. And even though we'll feel the emotions, they won't control us.
Maybe also we can take baby steps. I spent some time apart from my A before making the final break. That time was so peaceful and relaxing that I lost some of my negative emotions about being away from him.
The abf sound bipolar on top of things. That type of srinking coupled with the it being round the clock and psychotic rambling....dead give away bipolar. Maybe you feel sorry for him cuz he's sick. I dunno? Sounds scary though.
Joker, you will be in my thoughts today. I struggle with the same things. I'm leading my F2F meeting tomorrow. Today's CTC is about denial, always timely and especially applicable to me, so I looked at other denial passages to share in the meeting.
June 28 had this at the end: "My life is too important to waste waiting for someone else's choices, even when it's someone I dearly love." This really resonated with me today.
I hope you find peace. Hugs and blessings. You are not alone. --Cathy
(((Joker))) - perhaps, instead of asking yourself why don't you leave? What's holding me hear? Turn those around. Ask yourself, "Why do I stay?" and the like. In early recovery, I tried to over-analyze the disease, how it affected me, etc. Instead now, I try to examine me and why I react the way I do towards my qualifiers and the disease. More often than not, when I am stuck, it's fear-based and I am projecting the outcome.
For me, many of the fears I had and many of the 'stuckness' I felt changed drastically by working through the steps. I was able to let go of the alcoholic, the unknown future, the projections and the fears by working the steps. I learned to live in the day and to be grateful for them, the disease, my path, my HP and my journey. It took me a while to realize that my HP does not want me unhappy, miserable, withdrawn, isolated - he truly wants me happy, joyous, free and of service to others. It is my will battling his will which causes me the most discomfort.
I came her addicted to my qualifiers and how they lived and what they were/were not doing. Today, I live for me, my HP and peace. I have learned in the program that discussing them and what they are/are not doing or blaming the disease for my emotions blocks me from the sunlight of the spirit. I can truly live my life today and let others live theirs - letting go.
You have come a long way. I believe having a sponsor is so helpful for where you are as mine was able to point out to me the progress I was making and remind me it's a journey, not a destination we seek. A peaceful journey is what we seek, no matter what the future destination looks like. I had that way backwards when I arrived, always living with If this.....then that. I was focused on the end game, not realizing the journey is the true gift.
Keep coming back and keep working your program. The answers will come!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
There are no guarantees in anything in this life and definitely no guarantees of sobriety.
Moving to an apartment on your own doesn't have to mean slamming the door on the relationship. You can still have a relationship with him if you want to and take it one day at a time.
Whether you live with him or separate from him, alcoholism as you know can be arrested but not cured. The chance of relapse will always be looming in the background. If accepting that kind of uncertainty feels very frightening, it could overshadow your ability to stay present and accept him which includes accepting that alcoholism is going to be present in your life with him always in some form. It's not for everyone.
If you move, it allows you to create some physical space between yourself and him. There will be time to yourself to consider what you really want for your own life. If it feels so good living alone that you feel afraid to ever trust living with him again, well.... that's what feels right for you. What's the alternative? Live with him in fear every day? Sponsors have been known to help pack boxes as a way of being supportive of their sponsees. ((((hugs)))) TT
__________________
Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.
I will be going to my morning meeting shortly and going with gratitude that I came here first; to the oasis of ESH which I need to live in daily. Waking up to the JUST FOR TODAY pamphlet reading and then the recovery exchanges in our family. My morning prayer quite always is "Place me where you want me...tell me what to do" HP loves that prayer and so answers it for me. Mahalo to this Ohana; my family for the guidance. (((((hugs)))))
Hey Joker,
If you use the al anon principle of keep the focus on ourselves What do you need? What is best for you? What effect would living with him if and when he does drink again have on you? Keep it simple and take care of you. you will never know if he will finally become sober this time but you have options and choices for yourself. Do what you feel is best for you? Leave the sobriety questions up to him and his HP because they are the only one's who can decide and change it for him. Wishing you all the best I know it's not easy.
One reason we keep the focus on ourselves is it can prevent enabling. And enabling is actually working AGAINST the A's best interests. It could be that, if you leave for good, he will finally realize that you can't be enticed back, and perhaps, just perhaps, he will finally seek the help he needs. Or he may not, he may just sink lower and lower. Nevertheless, when I don't enable my wife, I feel it is an act of love. In fact, when she is in a right place in recovery, she will actually call me on it if I start to act like I would be enabling her.
I love, "Place me where you want me....tell me what to do." That prayer alone, is probably the most powerful tool we have. Whether it is for a decision, detachment, or handing over what we just can't seem to deal with in the moment....it works when we get still and listen for the answer. We wish it would come with lightening bolts to get our attention, but the message does come and the certainty we feel is usually pretty strong.
You nailed it for me 100% El-Cee, thank you for your honesty. I have been holding on tight for too long and finally now after years, I see clearly all the denial I was drowning in. Thank you for your words that match my exact feelings I could not express.
-- Edited by Nikki2beach on Friday 26th of August 2016 04:57:32 PM
Welcome to MIP Nikki2beach - glad that you found us and joined right in. Keep coming back - tons of great people and shares here!
You are not alone - there is help and hope!
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Joker--I can completely understand and sympathize/empathize with you. My AH is a binge drinker and is a great guy when he isn't drinking. When he drinks, he doesn't stop until he is ready to stop. It can last from days to weeks. I have thought many, many times about leaving. But, like you, I love my A and keep praying that maybe THIS time really will be the last time. Unfortunately, I have been saying this for almost 7 years. He just quit yesterday after a binge and I thought I would have sobriety for a while......he just came and told me he was going to get a small bottle. The miracle hasn't happened yet.
Only you can decide what to do. I can say this.....there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with you for hoping and praying that the miracle happens. This site has taught me once again that there is nothing I can do to stop his drinking. The question is, can you deal with the bad times? Are there enough good times to make it worth it. Honestly, there have been many, many times I wished I had left before we got married or too deep in the relationship.
I pray for you and all of us that have to go through this crap day in and day out because we love our A's.
I think living with alcoholism places us in reactive mode and it becomes habit. If this happens, then I'll do that, if that happens then I'll do this. In relationships it becomes easy to think if he/she stops drinking then all will be well, if not I'm a fool. I've thought like that and it ties me up in knots. Its faulty and learned thinking. Another thing is adrenalin from being in fight or flight mode for years.....when you combine that with the constant thinking, you get tired, really tired. Tired looks for the fastest rest, right now there is latent but no immediate danger.
Have you considered just taking a one week vacation in your new place and seeing how it feels? Might help with your process. Take care.
I don't remember when I knew that I was ready to end my 20 year marriage. But when he said to me 'if I quit drinking will you stay', I knew then that I still had to go. It was so much more than his drinking problem by that point. I needed to leave for ME. I needed to get whole again, be happy. I WANTED this for myself. It was time for me to move on down my path - without an alcoholic husband. I was tired, but once I made the decision - I was energized. Was it an easy thing to do - heck no! I had three kids to consider. When I moved into my new house, the kids would go to their dad's for the weekend and it was just 'me'. Alone. I had nothing to 'do' - it was shocking to me, this realization that I had filled my previous days with obsession and ruminating and fixing and care taking of my husband, my kids... now left with myself, I had no idea what to do! But we start from where we are. So I did that... one day at a time. Now, 6 years later... I don't even recognize the woman I was 'then'. But I view her lovingly and with compassion, and gratitude.
It is easy to be caught up in the NOW... but believe me when I say this.... there is so much more goodness and amazing life ahead of you that you can't possibly envision for your self at this moment. But believe me, it is THERE waiting for you. The next step on your path may be to walk through the threshold of that apartment and see what 'peace and quiet' might feel like. There is nothing to fear... it is so worth taking the step.
Hugs,
Cyndi
__________________
"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
just pack a few clothes and deliver one box at a time. This way, if you have to lead in a real hurry, you will have clothes to wear. Then perhaps some other supplies like cooking and bedding, just in case. One box at a time, unless YOU feel like moving more. If your littles voice starts screaming, don't close it off and smother it, listen and listen closely. This is the voice of reason especially when we can't come to a decision on our own. If violence eruptes, it is imperative to go immediately and you could I likely be in serious danger if you try to pack and move then. 
There is nothing to fear... it is so worth taking the step.