Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Asdfghjkl · Newbie

My wife is in recovery and I work at a brewery

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Well, asdfghjkl, I have experienced some similar stuff from my a partner. Although her never got into any kind of formal recovery, any time he decided to 'quit" drinking he would expect me to do so too, and give me holy hell if I didn't tee-total right along with him. Until he decided to drink again and then, I was expected to drink with him. It was pretty frustrating. I feel you.

Al-anon tries to go very lightly when it comes to advice. Basically we are about learning to detach from the alcoholic's behaviour so that it doesn't make us miserable/crazy/angry/etc and instead focus on ourselves and our own serenity and confidence. I found that after spending time going to meetings, posting here and working through the program it was a lot easier to let my partner's behaviour stay with him and make the decisions that were right for me without second guessing myself or buying in to manipulation. So the best I could suggest would be, attend some face to face meetings, read some literature about al-anon and see if you think it might help. I'm willing to bet it will

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP It is great that your wife has found sobriety and unfortunate that the arguments over your consumption are becoming so destructive.

AA is the recovery program for the person with a drinking problem and since living with the disease (as you have found) is destructive to family members, Alanon is the recovery program for family members. Face to face meetings are held in most communities and the hot line number is in the white pages.

Alcoholism is a 3 fold disease that affects the mind, body and spirit of all that it touches. Stopping drinking addresses the physical component of the disease and practicing a recovery program helps to address the spiritual and mental aspects .

One of he basic principles of recovery is that we are powerless over people , places and things. That keeping the focus on our behavior and living one day at a time helps to build a healthy life. Your counselor is correct in stating that your wife is required to focus on her own behavior and not yours.

I suggest that you search out al anon meetings and attend I would not negotiate any further deals until you have had the chance to learn a little more about the disease. Your job is not the cause of the problem!!!

Please keep coming back -- There is hope

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello asdfghjkl - welcome to MIP....so glad you found us and glad that you shared. The disease of alcoholism affects way more than drinking/abstaining from drinking. An alcoholic is also affected mentally, spiritually and emotionally. So - removing the substance from the person and the daily habits is the first step to recovery. Embracing the program and work the steps will help with these other areas I mention. For those who live with the disease, recovery is hard to understand and watch. Denial is a huge element of the disease - for both the alcoholic as well as those who live with the disease.

What I can share is that trying to have a normal civil adult conversation with an alcoholic is difficult. This applies whether they are or are not in recovery. Studies suggest that for one who abuses substances, their emotional maturity stalls from the time they begin to over-indulge. What happens is we end up with adult folks and maturity levels in the early/middle/late teens often. My best solution in trying to manage these dramatic situations was to embrace Al-Anon. Al-Anon has given me a deeper understanding of the disease and the diseased. With a new level of knowledge and awareness, I can then detach from the disease while still loving my person. I also can set boundaries that allow me to step away with grace and dignity when there are chaotic moments.

I have learned that I only have the ability to look at and change me. How I act, how I react, when I engage and when I walk away or suspend a discussion for a later time. I know today that I can not compete with the thoughts of any other person, and I don't have to. I also no longer need to be right, I would rather be happy.

So - we do not give advice in Al-Anon. We do share our ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) with others so they may find their own path to peace. Accepting that I had no influence over the choices, actions, words, etc. of another person was very freeing for me. The one exception about advice is when there is abuse - we are more likely to give advice if one is in danger. My best thought is if you know she leans towards aggression when there is a dispute, I would put boundaries and Plan B(s) in place ASAP to stay safe.

Glad you are here - keep coming back!

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm sorry there is so much stress and difficulty in your household. But happy that your wife has 18 months' sobriety - that gives you both something positive to go forward with.

I want to suggest something for you to think over.

You say you become verbally abusive when you argue, and I want to give you enormous credit for having awareness and owning that and wanting to change it. So often we aren't aware of our own contributions to problems and then it's incredibly hard to make progress. You've made a great contribution to better ways just by acknowledging an imperfection. Which, let's face it, we all have.

You say that your wife was married to an alcoholic who would abuse her. People tend to pick very similar partners in subsequent relationships unless they've done a lot of recovery.

I wonder if this might be a time to look at your own drinking.

Brewery culture normalizes drinking a lot so it can be hard to keep perspective on how it's going. I understand that at work, it could be awkward to say "No thanks, none for me" if everyone else is drinking the home product. I do notice that while your wife was away, you drank at home even though you'd given a promise not to, and you were deceptive about it. I'm guessing you would say, "She put me in a position where I had no choice but to be deceptive!" Unfortunately, I imagine we've all heard that argument from our alcoholics. It's a little bit of a classic.

You say that you don't have many drinks every day, but you did find it so hard to keep from drinking at home (even though you weren't surrounded by work culture there) that you did it - that has some hallmarks of a compulsion. And your drinking is such that a promise not to drink for 30 days now seems unrealistic to you.

One thing we learn to do in Al-Anon is to ask "What's my contribution to the situation?" Your wife is having trouble keeping to her side of the street and not focusing solely on her own sobriety. Maybe she could benefit from Al-Anon too! But I wonder if you might apply the Al-Anon tool of looking at your side of the street, which is that your own drinking may be a little too active for things to be peaceful in your home. You shouldn't leave your industry for her - but I wonder if you want to consider leaving it for you. I know that from what you describe, you're not falling-down-drunk or drinking-12-at-a-time. This may be early in the process rather than late. But your post boils down to "She wants to me stop drinking and I don't want to, and I won't and haven't." That rings some alarm bells for me. Remember that if you decide to tackle your own drinking (through a solid recovery program - not just white-knuckling it - you've already seen how that doesn't last) - it is not for her benefit, although your marriage may well benefit. It would be for your benefit and healthier living. I don't know any more about your situation than what you've said, so there is that. Just something you might consider.

Take good care of yourself.

Thorn · Veteran Member

Hey there Asdfghjkl...welcome. When I met my husband (1988 wow) he was in recovery. I was actively drinking and enjoying that. He never asked me to stop but was clearly uncomfortable when I did and was uncomfortable in the nearly all social situations at that that early time in his recovery. We left parties and weddings as soon as politely acceptable and had a lot of movie dates because that was the one thing we liked that didn't involve drinking.

I began to cease my drinking and never drank around him. I would go on a night or weekend tear when he was working and I could spend time with my friends, all active drinkers. I felt like it was a double life in some regard. As we began to get more serious, I felt some guilt when I drank when he wasn't around. I wanted it to "work" and I wanted to be supportive of his sobriety because I knew his life was really a mess when he was drinking and using.

I started to attend some open AA meetings with him and after just a couple of meetings I learned that normal people don't vomit every weekend and don't black out and don't get belligerent with friends and family. They don't give their favorite bartenders every single penny of their paycheck and then borrow some 'till their paycheck.

I came to AA out for support for him and curiosity about how it helped him stay sober, and BLAM I get socked between the eyes hearing stories that I well could have told by the speakers at the meetings. I did all of the above and more and it never dawned on me that I could have a problem because everyone I knew -all my family and friends drank this way.

I just knew it would not work out (our relationship) if I kept drinking, and stopping was a great deal harder than I thought (for someone without a problem-lol) and I still to this day believe that. I always say I found out I was an an alcoholic "by accident" as a joke. But what I have come to know is there aren't any accidents at all, just my HP's plan for me. I've been sober since and life's been good. My husband has had a few brief periods of active drinking in our 27 year marriage but has been sober since 1996.

I've had many discussions over the years about what's happening when one partner drinks and the other is sober. It makes for lively conversation but all of us with sober marriages/relationships cannot imagine it any other way. It is amazing how all relationships (even difficult ones) stabilize in recovery. Today I really rely on Al-Anon's program as my obsession with drinking is long removed. It a lifeline for me--you're in the right place!

Peace to you.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Step 1...We admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable. Welcome to the board Asdfghjkl, I hope you are willing to sit down and listen and participate...your situation isn't that rare...I have seen and heard it before.

My own sponsor (someone who assists us and guides us in recovery) at one time managed a winery. His wife was alcoholic. I won't go any further with their story you and your wife have your own.

Alcoholism is a fatal disease so part of your wife's concern is about keeping her life from getting swept into the garbage. Anyone's drinking threatens that for her and she may be fighting cravings while her spirit is screaming "Don't...Don't ever again". I am also a recovering alcoholic and my former wife was alcoholic/addict you might have the range of intuition and compassion to imagine what that was like for us. She use to chase my drinking...try to drink as often and as much as I and it almost cost her life as it almost cost me mine. Alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical and not a food or nutrition source. From college I learned it is the most altering chemical available to the human being and then I learned acceptance of the deaths of family members, friends and associates who also drank.

At one time I would never give up drinking in favor of the peace of mind, serenity and happiness of a spouse...alcohol was much to important to my ego and self esteem...I was remembered for what and how much I drank. More friends and family members remembered the negative consequences than any positive ones and I could not remember any positive ones. Would I quite drinking in favor of my wife...rarely. Would I make promises that I could not and would not keep? you know the answer to that one. Over time and in recovery I would come to understand how alcohol controlled me and not the other way around no matter how I spoke. I was chemical free for 9 years before getting into AA which came after an assessment that told me the next time I drank I died. That assessment came years after my last near death alcohol event, one called toxic shock (my third one) where without warning alcohol robbed me of my conscious and subconscious facilities. It was for the voice of a spirit which was with me at the time that I learned about having "the one ounce too much". There were other factors such as the urine yellow green color of my skin which caused me to wonder and still not stop drinking. How important was booze to me? I would sacrifice almost everything to it willingly.

I came into Al-Anon as a result of been affected by the drinking and using of my former alcoholic/addict wife who unlike your wife wasn't clean and sober at the time. I came to understand and added college to help me do that and then 9 years later AA after a formal assessment while I was employed as a therapist in a rehab. It was that assessment which got me into the doors of our "other" program AA.

I've been in recovery 37 years; half of my adult drinking age. It hasn't been more than several days that this disease has called me out to drink again. No I didn't while I step up my practice of the 12 steps of recovery especially step one I mentioned above. Your wife knows that step also...intimately and her anger reveals that she doesn't want to loose her life to the disease in favor of your judgement. She wants the ultimate respect for her new desire to live happy, joyous and free. it causes you to fight which is proof that you love each other and the fear is trying to rule you both. Fear of what? You both have to inventory that to come up with where you are at and what must be done in order to make each other and your marriage more important than mind and mood altering chemical you may otherwise be in love with also.

I hope you keep coming back and reading. Grateful for your courage and honesty here. Keep on coming back ((((hugs)))) smile

Fooled · Senior Member

Mattie that was a very good share as I was thinking the same thing. Its amazing how far I have come with the board. Awareness and the willingness to accept that awareness is the key. As much as my years of qualifiers effects on me, my father, my grandfather, my sister, exah, my RAH, my AS, you would think I would never want to touch the stuff. However, one of the resentments I had to own up to was I cant have my favorite bottle of wine in the house at all times. It made me examine my own habits and perhaps I was relying to much on that glass of wine "to help me deal with my A" When I started to think about stopping off at the local winery while he was at work or at a meeting, the awareness set in. The alcoholic mind is a tricky one and often the "holier than thou" attitude is common with the non-A. Often when I cant get to an on line meeting, or my weekly face to face, I watch you tube AA and Ala-non speakers on you tube, one that stuck out at me was the husband who accompanied his wife to her AA meetings as his way of "helping" , he went to so many AA meetings he became an alcoholic. LOL asdfghjkl the counselor is right, how I came to this board was my anger at being told to stay out of my husbands sobriety. As I started working the steps and turning the attention to myself rather than him, it is then when I was able to gain some perspective. Even though we are married, all of his business is not all of my business.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene