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I haven't posted in a few days as I was doing well and I was still doing well.
For those having read my last thread, it ended (I think) in the fact that my recovering husband had a small seizure whilst we were getting ready to swim with the girls for the first time in a long time and everyone was very excited. He hadn't had lunch, it was get mid afternoon and he had been busy all Saturday trying to be 'a good guy'. When he doesn't eat and rest properly. Seizures can happen but it also had another effect on him. He became depressed, confused, tired, sad and went very quiet and kind off went into himself.
I took him to the train station the Sunday after making sure the Saturday was still a good Saturday. He had to help his mum get her flat ready for the builders who are doing her bathrooms and move them both into AirBnB accommodation. My husband was quite on Sunday but seemed more upbeat. He was rather quick to get out of the car and into the train. He was ashamed he had the seizure and didn't want them to happen when he was rebuilding his relationships with his family (this is what he later said).
Nothing on Monday after a week of him phoning every evening and us having good conversations. Nothing on Tuesday or Wednesday (I knew it, it was so obvious) in couples counselling on Thursday he said he relapsed on Tuesday and expected me to be angry. I wasn't angry, it was his choice and after the seizure and his behaviour following the seizure it was going to happen. He hadn't contacted his sponsor, hadn't gone to AA meetings.
The new counsellor was great, the session with my husband was bad. He didn't have a clue what I needed from him when he was asked to be me even though I had him down to 't'. Even though he was supposed to spend last weekend with us again, he didn't come on Friday. I discussed it with my therapist on Friday and she said some things that I am still pondering.
Am I prepared to do this for the rest of my life? The fact he has no clue about finances and creates debts everywhere. It's teenage behaviour. With his drinking starting age 13 and his frontal lobe brain damage he might never mature to an adult. He might always behaves like a child when it comes to arguments and solving them, finances, etc. It was not something I could answer there and then, but now half a week later things are starting to become clear.
While I was at dance classes with the girls, he arrived at the house and mowed the lawn. I got home and instantly saw he wasn't not well. His pupils were small, his behaviour aggressive, defensive, 'not there', really not good. He admitted to drinking on Friday but not on Saturday. Nevertheless I sent him out and he went back to his mums but not before he had a bottle of vodka on the way (no surprise there either). His mum was home and thought he fine (seriously?!)
I decided to phone him on Sunday evening. He was full of self loathing, depressed, unhappy, disappointed in himself. He'd been inside all day. His knuckles had been bleeding and he didn't know why. He thinks he must've gotten into a fight (not unusual when he is drunk). He had spoken to his sponsor but he didn't seem to think much of it. I listened and let him speak. He apologised and knew that drink didn't agree with him, it doesn't work for him or with him. He couldn't remember anything. It's all just a blackout. He couldn't remember the abuse he shouted at me on Saturday, the cupboard he slammed, hit and kicked. It was all a blank. Wonderful!
I suggested that maybe, even though he doesn't want to, it might be a good idea to see a 1 to 1 therapist, who like our counsellor is a recovering alcoholic with a counselling degree, and who could teach him how to deal with his emotions. It was a suggestion. A thing where I think he goes wrong in. The pressure of dealing with his mums bad builders, reorganisations and the politics that come with it at his work, insecurity about himself and where he is in his recovery. And maybe he got stuck in AA I don't know, I could be wrong on that one.
He seemed open to the idea, would phone the insurance so I left it at that and continued with my life. Again Yesterday there was no word.
Today he did phone but again did not sound clear. His speaking a bit 'thick'. He asked the same questions again and again, there was no asking after the girls. Only 'business talk'. He said he had a lot of sh@@t going on but never wants to tell me what it is or just goes round and round in circles. This is wrong I thought. Then he got his suspicion on....he thinks there are some people in AA who are trying to make him do bad things like beating people up. Do they honestly really do that???? It would be sick in my opinion and he would need to get out of that AA group asap. He said he was migrating to other groups but he was getting fed up with AA. I mentioned the 1 tot 1 therapy again but was this time met with aggression about it and when I told him I did an interview for online teaching he flat out told me that he told me before that he didn't want me to do it!! And that it was stupid!! That I was doing it so I could prove I could support myself and that we'll pay twice the taxes. I defenced by saying that as long as he kept spending stupid money and kept getting us into trouble which means I can't go to Holland to see my family that a little extra money can't hurt. I also am not able to work prime hours because of the girls but evening only and hopefully weekends if he is here and well. I didn't expect that reaction. I thought he would be supportive.
I felt that the conversation needed to be brought to an end as I didn't want to be spoken to the way he was speaking to me. He said he needed to have a long hard look at himself. I agreed with him and said I would see him at counselling tomorrow evening.
I don't feel bad, I don't feel hurt, I feel quite calm and I am fine. He is not here so he can't hurt me that much but maybe, just maybe, even though we've had two great weekends. I may have to think about different solutions regarding his 'recovery' and my life. I will be here and in this house until this school year ends so I have a little time. But at the moment things don't look very good.
I'd like to hear all your thoughts. Massive thanks as always!
You will know when you know and I just encourage you to base your decisions whatever they are as you work your program based upon what you want long term.
A happy caretaking parent means happy kiddos. I can seriously tell when I'm not taking good care of me based upon the insanity that starts going on with mine.
The other thing is .. don't base your choices on what he is or isn't doing .. that all changes .. I wish I had been less obsessed about what mine was or wasn't doing and put that effort into me.
Just keep coming back your answers will come .. big hugs .. I understand none of this is easy and there is no right answer or wrong answer .. it's honestly the answer that is right for you.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
(((Dutchy))) yes, as Serenity shared, keep the focus on you. Maybe he resents AA because others are getting well and healthy, maybe he just doesn't want to go, there are so many maybe's but trying to fix him will not help........my guess is all his problems and stressors are the exact result of his drinking and a huge red flag went off when he said AA wanted him to beat up people.......he's either becoming quite delusional or just isn't ready. Alanon and AA are so much alike. I'm a double winner and the meetings are so similar to what we learn in Alanon.
I remember going to a counselor with my ex gambler/alcoholic. He simply told him to come back after he had a few months in AA and the fog lifted, then he would work with us....me.....him......
He has to want to stop bad enough to actually take that action. No amount of reasoning will work. Boundary's for you are the best thing you can do for him. And also as Serenity shared, you will know when you know. HUGS!!
Aloha Dutchy ...welcome back and after reading Tude's response to you I acknowledge her response as very nearly my own and maybe because I am also a double, and practicing member of both programs. He has got to want sobriety more than anything else in order to get honestly well. I will speak my intention for him with my Higher Power and for you both. ((((hugs))))
Oh definitely. He has got to want it and has got to want to work for it which is why I told him he is not coming back into the family the way he is now. A very different person from 3 weeks ago.
I am definitely doing me, protecting me and the girls. We are ok, he is not and I don't feel that is my problem. 2 things annoy me. His mum still not having a clue (or denying) and his lack of financial awareness. But those things I can't change so I don't stress about any of it.
It's nice to just get things on 'paper' and having your opinions. It shows I am doing the right thing and he is oj a downwards spiral but not in my vicinity.
Good moves, As. Taking care of ourselves. Some people talk about the breathing bag in a plane- put it on first.
But in the drinking situation- it is like the plane has blown up and everyone is free-falling...
...the thing is to pull the rip-cod on our own parachute- before trying to grab someone else. Makes a lot of sense- but not in a panic situation.
I am more or less doing Step 12. Every one of us approaches the steps in their own way- in my early days we had members who could neither read nor write. So we just learned from off of each other. I used the word- osmosis- to describe this one... ...
but we are all born survivors. i used to view the steps like the numbers of the clock. And Step 12 sits right next to Step 1.
So when you came along i was seeing this group as a stand-alone Alanon group. Not necessarily a staging post to a f2f group. Or any other group.
And I saw you as a prospective member... so long as you need us...
i have sat in meetings for 37 years- and I have seen and heard it all. But, more importantly, I have bin there, and here, for myself.
Without our members there is nothing- just a blank void. Pain and suffering. Anger- grief... the lot!
At our closing we often say: "You may not like all of us, but you will come to love us- the same way we already love you.".
That says a whole lot. This is what i received- and this is what ah has now.
We all come from different walks of life. Outside of the rooms we are anonymous individuals. We would walk past each other in the street, 19 times out of 20.
But there you are- this is the miracle, the magic. ...
Each person who come into the rooms, or the space capsule, is a treasure. Your presence brings us back to ourselves, and to our first moment of confusion.
To have AlAnon is a miracle in itself. It's a lifesaver for me especially with husband going downhill but luckily not in the family home anymore so it's much easier to jsut enjoy my day without having to see him or deal with him. If we weren't born survivors, we'd all have a problem I think. Thank you as always DavidG
Sounds like the merrygoround is still turning. Have you read the merrygoround called denial? It's online it's alanon. It helped me to see what was going on. The whole king baby thing. Hes got your attention big time. He's got 2 mummys looking out for him and watching him scolding hum when he needs it and praising him. Looking for all the reasons to avoid responsibility like the builders are in the stress of moving poor him. The best thing I could suggest is read and read alanon. Get to know this disease. Its cunning and baffling. It makes a martyr controller fixer out of us and a manipulative immature child out of them. It's the same disease and it dances around all of us. It's got the power here. Learn about enabling find out if your doing that or the mother is because while that's happening there is no chance of recovery. It could be time to let go of him. Think about your responsibilities they are to you first and foremost then your children. What's best for you? It's a hard road we walk until we surrender.
Brilliant message el-cee.
I haven't read it but I will now.
I said in couples counselling that I refuse to enable my husband and according to him, a recovering alcoholic and sober for 25 years, I am not. His mum might be. She is new to all of this. I have built a stronger life with him not here and have strong boundaries. I offer support or a listening ear and then let him deal with his stuff. Unless he is willing to do whatever needed to get out of this he is only just half committing and that is not good enough.
I hope to get my mock teaching sessions soon and start teaching soon, if they like me (lucky kids get to watch a lot of movies).
Still doesn't get me to see my family which sucks quite a bit but I am not going to add to the irresponsebility. I have the profit of the sale of our previous house in my account which he can't access so at least a really big chunk is safe.
It might indeed be time to let him go. He seems good today but God knows about tomorrow.
Thank you El-cee (((hugs)))
(((Dutchy))) - it's so darn difficult trying to determine how an alcoholic can/can not 'fit' into the family. For me, I truly had to focus and exist in this day - staying present and letting go of the past and avoid projecting into the future. It did not come naturally and it was not easy at all. In reality, I am certain I said the Serenity Prayer hundreds and hundreds of times per day as well as pulled out any other program tool to help bring my mind back to the here and now.
It helped me to focus on what was improving in my life instead of what was unknown or still broken. It helped me to pause often/always before I spoke or reminded or suggested or expected. I truly had to practice how to really let go and let God for a long while to be free from my own self/thoughts/obsessions. It was exhausting and overwhelming to feel as if I was playing a waiting game to live my life and letting go gave me the freedom to be and live my life with self-care, love and respect in lieu of what others were/were not doing.
I had a nudge from HP when I woke up one day, questioning what was it about me that was more concerned about the future, health and well-being of another than they were? This helped me change what I considered being of service vs. 'helping' or 'enabling'. I can love another deeply and want the best for them - that's healthy. Yet, when I am obsessing or worrying about them more than they care about themselves, that's not healthy.
Keep doing you as best you can and consider what is truly important to you and your day. I needed daily meetings, a sponsor and all the tools available to change me, my thinking and my obsessions. Accepting that I was powerless over people, places and things is frightening, yet freeing and powerful at the same time.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
((dutchy))) Yes, the immaturity.......my AF who lives on our property got me back in here. Thank God she did! She's doing so very well. She picked up her 5 month chip, is living the program and yes........she may never fully mature due to brain deficits, possibly by the alcohol induced seizures? I don't know. She came out here after she was found unresponsive over 2 1/2 years ago......due to alcohol....
In the meantime, this program has saved my life. AA most likely saved hers. For my own sake I had to totally shut her out of my life for a long time. I learned to do that in love in this fellowship. (Please don't mix my dates up, my dates/times are always mixed up and off.) After about 2 months I tried letting her back in briefly. I lost all serenity and I was the one not strong enough. She wasn't working and living her program yet. At one point I had a weak spot and offered for her to do a load of wash........big mistake. She did her passive aggressive, overloaded my washer to the tune of 11 jeans, shirts, PJs, you name it all in one load. Fast forward to another month and a half etc....I did a load of wash for her and set it literally out the front door for her. Oh, and I did ask her if she had food at one point. She is now slowly back in our lives, she is living the program, making friends and not fully in our lives. We visit off and on briefly and all she talks about is the program and I talk about my own.
5 months is still early. I realize that. But I am oh so grateful for these programs and giving me my own life back. I mentioned that we were going on a fishing trip soon and we do have someone to tend to the place, but if she wanted to try again to housesit, after much prayer and only after she talked it over with her sponsor ( I wanted her to know she could say "no" which is a huge issue in most areas of any recovery) if she wanted to to earn some extra money. She spoke with her sponsor and her suggestion was to write all down in GREAT DETAIL for her.
I'm sharing this only because the brain/immaturity issues. There is hope. But all in all from the support and what I have learned in here, it's still the same thing. Take care of me. Keep those boundaries set for our sake and theirs. This time we have a backup if things go wrong when we go away. I love the "how it works" in the BB. Even those with severe mental etc there's hope with honesty. (paraphrased)
Dutchy your doing great. Your sharing honestly setting boundaries that are good for you. When I suggest letting go it doesn't have to be a physical separation as such. To me it's in the mind. It's about getting the focus back on you. He will drink or not spend money or not but its about you doing what you need to improve your life and that only happened for me by detaching with love. I was obsessed with the drinker and firmly believed that our family's security happiness finances wpuld all get better when he stopped drinking so I lived for years waiting and waiting. Getting older all the while. That as a great few alanon tools that help like the just for today card where you get to focus on one thing each day or where you turn your mind back to the moment each and Every time you think of him. These things helped me and the leaflet called detachment was my go to for a long time.x
Thank you El-cee. I thought I was doing well on that front. I am happier, calmer, the girls are too, I enjoy my things, my baking and cooking, reading, my routine. The challenges that were put in front of me yesterday have thrown me and maybe shown me I am not doing a well I did or should be. I am takong things one day at a time. I find it hard to look further ahead than that these days or to plan for long term or try and see the future.
Still the challenges of 'just cut the cord, go to Holland it's better for ypu and the children' from my daughters therapist and my own therapist asking if my timeline is still in place (which it is and I told my husband that last night).
As a former anorexic I sort of know the metal battle he goes through and I know he can get himself well. I don't think he is doing everything. I refuae to be his helper, hiis mother, his enabler, his organiser any longer. I can support and listen and that is as far as it goes when it comes to the alcoholic disease.
It's not the money or getting a job or finding somewhere to live that I find hard when I leave him. I have my family, we will figure it out. My mum retires in November and all she wants are her grand children and so does my dad (he worked a lot when I was little so mum could be a stay at home mum which means he lost out on the ages all his grandchildren are now and he enjoying doing it all again)
More meditating and work is needed to ponpoint my emotions. My therapist will request some sessions but I won't get many more.
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