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Ok so I have talked to some other people in 1:1 meetings and it seems like there is that opinion that by me not sharing my feelings with AH that I am codependent and just allowing the situation to go on to a certain extent.
Because the drinking has become more frequent and he is definitely trying to hide it more and because it is taking such a toll on my emotional and physical health I feel like I need to have a talk with him where with love I speak my truth and state the observations and show the pictures of the quantities, state the physical obersaions (like hallucinations and tics) and say how concerned I am for his health and the impact on our family.
Now as I gave shared before I have told his sister and now also his father who is in town who are both concerned. So my question to you is how best to do this? Do I just talk to my husband alone or do I have his father or sister or both there for support for me and him or do I have them talk to him about what I have told them? My gut feel is to talk to husband with one of them there because if he yells or just wants to storm out that he wouldnât if one of his family were there and they could encourage him to listen and voice concerns.
Has anyone done this kind of open talk. I donât want to give ultimatum. But I do want the reality check of what I see and how it is affecting me and my concern for his health (he is type 1 diabetic).
So ideas? Suggestions? Help.
Aloha Dancer and welcome to the family. Your love and concern for your Alcoholic is natural and real and a memory of mine in the past when I was married to and concerned for my alcoholic/addict wife and every other alcoholic in my family and surroundings. After being in program for a while and listening and learning to those that came before me I accepted the she and all others of them, including myself, knew there the problem was coming from. Just the cause and effect of alcohol and drunk and illness was known and so I will bet that your alcoholic also knows or has an awareness about the negative aspects of his drinking and or using. All of my qualifiers heard and knew what I also had heard and known with one exception; it pertained to "other guys and not me". What helped me to understand was my doctors and the rooms of recovery which wore down my resistance and denial. Everyone knows and he does also. I believe that only one of the things that helped my alcoholic to stop and consider the suggestions that were running around in her head was the question, "What are you afraid of asked quietly and supportively" and then I didn't hang around to interfere with the process because I didn't know and didn't know I didn't know what the whole thing was about myself. I got into my program and over time learned to follow the suggestions myself.
Seriously the first part of the first step says, "ADDMITTED I WAS POWERLESS"....That is a truth discovered by the old timers I needed to assimilate. And then the second step says I "Came to believe THAT A POWER GREATER THAN (Jerry F) could restore me (Jerry F) to sanity. There are recovering alcoholics in our Alcoholic populations here in Hawaii...they tell their stories about how it was, what happened and what it is like now and never ever do they mention my name in their stories. That is the way it should be. They acknowledge their Higher Powers...I am not one of them.
I do ask the question, "So what are you afraid of"? and leave the awareness to them and God. ((((hugs))))
I'm with Jerry - the best suggestion I've got is to attend meetings and work on recovery. The answers, words and actions that result from this program have given me a 'real freedom' from the affects of this disease. All the talking, coaxing, coaching, threatening, loving, enabling, etc. that I tried before brought about temporary breaks in the disease yet more chaos/drama when it returned.
In my program, I have learned to process opinions as they are - another's view from the outside with no experience in the trenches. That opinion comes from my explanation of the situation and I have no doubt, even when I am trying to be loving and fair, it's jaded or one-sided. I respect that Al-Anon members do not give advice or opinions, but rather try to share about their own experiences to help me explore different choices.
My alcoholics, when active in the disease truly did not concern themselves with my feelings, wants or needs. They just did not have the capacity to do so. The disease takes all their energy and it is what it is. Only in recovery did I come to see and accept that my needs and wants were important to me and my HP and I had every right to use self-care and put me/my health first.
Take good care of you and give recovery a try - it's been a game changer for me. (((Hugs))) - keep coming back.
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
No one knows your situation and what past behavior in regards to your ah and his drinking. You certainly have the right to vocalize your truth as long as you realize you aren't the only one with choices and reactions to the situation. I encourage you to get a sponsor. I am unclear what you mean by one: one meetings and who is relaying this information to tell him. Have you been to an alanon meeting? Worked the steps? Gotten a sponsor? My personal opinion is you might be pouring gasoline onto a situation you aren't prepared for the consequences. Until you really get involved with a program of recovery .. I don't know if any good would come from it. Do you have boundaries are you willing to stick with them .. not ultimatums just your own personal boundaries. Do you have a plan if things blow up on you? You tell him how you feel .. ok .. now what? I guess I don't believe in that kind of conversation with someone who may or may not hear you. I encourage you to check your motives before having that particular conversation. Big hugs .. keep coming back. S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I would go back to expectations. My huge falling block in.dealing without any A is expectations. If you do confront him what do you expect to happen.
I.dont find it that helpful to be labelled codependent. It isn't about healthy versus unhealthy it is about learning new tools.
Many.alcoholics do get sober at all stages of the disease
Some of them got sober after a confrontation. There were other elements to their decision to get sober. In AA they talk about becoming willing.
You are certainly entitled to your feelings and worry.
Nevertheless you have to look at what do you expect to happen. In particular if you involve a lot of people are your expectations going to rise up even more
I have the biggest conflict with understanding how to manage (or not have) expectations. I know I can't change him. But how do I take care of myself, manage my frustrations, anger, etc...when he continues to drink? What I want to is him, to spend time with him and have a relationship like we used to have. So--if I just stay in another room, or go out of house when he is doing behavior I don't like--then I don't get time with him and (as he says) I am taking my self away and not allowing opportunity to be together. I know people say--got to meetings--but I do really need that listening and "advice" (without being advice). I need suggestions on how to manage. I know there are no quick fixes---but how to manage? This last week with him not drinking---soooooo much better I have felt more calm. Biggest anxiety coming from him not talking to me. I'm anxious too for the next week or so--will he drink after his father leaves? Will he drink after the 2 weeks is over and say "see did it" then go back to old behaviors. I really want that crystal ball that show the future -anyone got one?
At meetings you get to see people progress in their recovery
Managing is working the tools JADE one day At a time detaching. There is an arsenal of tools
Managing my expectations is so key. When I am wanting someone to change it is for me a malignant hope. The only person who can change someone is themselves. Some people do change when the consequences hit them.
For me personally change only came when I.could not stand to be in pain anymore. I.certainly didnt want to.adopt a program. I wanted the now ex A to change. He didn't change at all I did.
There are ups and douwns in many relationships. For me the crises the constant trauma the undertow of his friends wanting to take whatever they could as well as his family issues were too much. We all have our evaluations of a relationship.
My relationship had its ups and downs but eventually it was all downhill no matter how Herculean I.was. No tools no managing no denial no loyalty could change the fact the ex A was hell bent on his addiction.
I know that what you must really want, like all of us, is to spend quality time with your A when he is not drunk, or not too drunk to respond and really "be" with you.
Unfortunately, with an alcoholic that's not really on offer. Al-Anon has a saying: "it's like going to the hardware store for bread."
So, sadly, a realistic expectation is that he's not available for that. Having that expectation doesn't let him off the hook. It doesn't mean that you're not justified in thinking a good relationship has to have that. It doesn't mean that you have to be okay with what he is doing. It just means being clear about what is possible.
Then the question becomes: you are in a relationship with someone who can't give what a healthy relationship needs. Then what? As the saying is, 'He's going to do what he's going to do [drink], what are you going to do?"
Maybe that means finding more support and friendship in Al-Anon, with good friends, or going out and doing activities you like so you make good supportive friends, maybe turning to (emotionally healthy) relatives, maybe getting a therapist, maybe going to more Al-Anon meetings, maybe finding a sponsor, maybe deciding that you deserve more and separating from your A and opening yourself to a healthier relationship with someone who can give back. All of these are possibilities but none of them is required. One thing that does help us is taking the focus off the A and what he can't give (even though that problem is still there) and putting it back on us and getting our needs met in a variety of ways in this complicated life.
OK update. I confronted my husband while his father was with us. Went ok . calm. of course he denied that he had a problem and that he "only drank more now because of the football season." I told him no that I had collected and observed since July how much, that I was worried for his health especially because he is a Type 1 diabetic, the example he is setting for our kids and that he can be mean to me when he drinks. Spoke my truth. And I did tell him that I have been so upset it was affecting my health and that I was going to alanon for support. I Asked he not drink for 2 weeks. so after asking my husband to not drink for 2 weeks (which has been so nice and peaceful). He didn't talk to me for a week. Then finally started. We actually started interacting more and we just had a great overnight date. I went out of my way to be intimate with him (which is what his "love language" is) and we had a nice time. Today I know he wanted to watch the game. I know something was up when he texted me screen shots of his most recent labs to show all was ok. I said good when he brought it up. We came home he said he was having a beer, I sat on couch with him and he held my hand. I actually fell asleep against him. Then when I woke up he was still working on his large first beer it looked like. we talked about plans for next day and for dinner tonight. By 45 min later when I came back with dinner he was drinking more, yelling at TV, oblivious to me going in with the food. I had to get right up to him. I still kept my cool. Sat down next to him and ate, He's yelling at TV and texting people about game. SO after I eat then I finally ask him how much he has drank --and he goes off on me (I know I shouldn't have even asked). He says why --I say well he was getting really loud and he just goes off--"what does it matter if I drink, so what if I'm loud, you get bothered by me being loud its not like I'm hitting you or anything, what are you upset, are you going to go to a meeting or talk to one of your alton friends about me now".... SO I got up and walked into bedroom and closed door and started calling friends. He then texted me within 10 min that he was living to go watch game somewhere and he home after--at least he used UBER. So after to talking to multiple friends including one from alanon--I went out with Dog for walk since it was getting close to time for game to be over and stated out for about 2-3 hours. Now that I came home he is asleep on couch in back room. (I hope he stays there). and I just will try to go to sleep now (take a sleeping pill to help). I hope tomorrow he will have a little awareness of how off the handle he went--but I know not to expect it. The biggest question is how to handle him tomorrow depending on his mood. SO since I was sober I still have the anger over what he said--so if he tried to act like nothing happened--what do I do? Play along? Try to forget what a jerk he was. Or if he is mean and says about I overreacted--do I walk out because its wont do any good to talk since he is in denial. Or do I just say my truth--I thought he over reacted to my question and that the comments he made were hurtful. Ugh. We just had such a good 24 hours and I got my hopes up that things were starting to change. Crystal ball anyone???? I would love to know where things are headed.
I lived as room.mates with a man (who owned the house) who is an alcoholic who h as type 1 diabetes among many other health issues. This was not a romantic relationship. His house is very small it is hard to find a place for privacy even within my room. . He made some extremely hurtful remarks to me over the two years I was there (really vicious) . He also did a lot of lashing out especially when I objected to anything he did. I had a lot of reactions to him felt very aggrieved and absolutely over whelmed. At that time I was going through a hard time in other areas of my life including really difficult financial issues . I had to accept how much the alcoholism had progressed for him. I have known him more than 10 years and was somewhat in denial about his behaviors. . I ranted a lot to people about his behavior because it was really antagonistic. That helped but the real help was changing my behavior. His behavior has never changed in fact I think he is in even more denial than ever.
So in the answer to how do you cope it's firstly get support (other than from him because an alcoholic is in denial). Don't argue with him. Practice JADE. Do not justify Argue Defend it argue. The other answer is DETACH. Detaching for me was sometimes actively avoiding him. Avoiding someone in the same house is very difficult and of course in the beginning brings up resentment. I lost friends over this issue because some people didn't understand the necessity of detaching or boundaries. . Empathy can be a big issue because of course I was aware what he was doing to himself. I had to actually do less for him. I was not as available to take care of his animals. The loud yelling at the TV stiff is really hard to take and I xertinly realky minded it. He also did a lot of seriously loud speaker phone calls. It seemed like my roommate did that for days. He bin ge watched TV and drank copiously. The fridge was full of vodka.
Overtime I got a lot better at managing but it was a tall order to detach. I resented him.deeply but out of that anger camw a real resolve not to ley the situation.consume ms When I expressed hurt or dissension to him somehow it played into his need to argue. Alcoholics have almost an obsession with arguing. That fuels their alcoholism
I had to remain on good terms with this man for many reasons but I have to say his behavior was corrosive. The boundaries I had to put up were fierce and rigid. I got very very busy. I also got very angry (which do never exporessed to him except 9ne time when I set up.a boundar he could not cross. Nevertheless that anger motivated me to make a lot of changes in my life. I have to say it that those changes were very beneficial for me. I like the benefits of those changes immensely and they include being far more protective of myself than I have ever been.
I did not have an active blow up argument with him which I certainly have had in the past. Avoiding those blow ups and confrontations was very very difficult. I do not to this say believe this man believes he was exceedingly mean to me.
He totally thinks he was generous and kind and supportive. Your husband may believe his behavior is acceptable. Changing someone else's behavior is difficult changing our own is much more manageable
Of course I know what youbwant to hear is how to get your husband to conform. For me personally I had to find a way to navigate what I considered an emotional minefield. When I did that I was not exhausted and I did not take this man's behavior personally. I was proactive. I was at that time not as active in my program as I am now That would certainly have helped
I can tell you when I am really active in my program dealing with what are very difficult situations becomnes much easier. The change is one step at a time.
There are a lot of ways to be active in a program There are meetings here every day. They are highly recommended There is a lot of literature on all the issues of people pleasing boundaries and more that go into codependent. . There is a tremendous amount of recovery out there and most of all here.
The first rule is to preserve yourself and manage your self esteem. The second is to deescalate when everything in you wants to escalate. The third of course is to trust that investing in yourself will pay off whether your husband drinks or not. Having a sponsor really helps. You might not like what they suggest but they are suggesting from a knowledge base of what seems to work for a lot of people. The bottom line is that none of the program will guarantee your husband will stop.drinking. What it will do is to help you survive it.
No one is going to say this is going to be easy. What I can say unequivocally us whether he drinks or not eventually your life will be far more manageable
Maresie
-- Edited by Maresie on Sunday 7th of January 2018 03:54:25 AM
I totally get you want a crystal ball and a magic wand to say poof all better this nasty business wad just a phase. What you aren't hearing is alcoholism is a life long disease that without treatment only gets worse. It is progressive and only he can decide enough is enough. This disease is not logic based .. so you will not reason his out of it. You didn't cause it .. can't control it and you will not cure it. That's why meetings are so important because it's not about HIS behavior .. HIS drinking. If you are so set against meetings try some speakers on YouTube. I also recommend trying to open your mind trying 6 meetings and then decide if meetings work. Straight up I wad far more stubborn than you lol .. my shrink said alanon and I went to prove to her I didn't need it. After the first meeting I was pissed .. Lol she was right. I cried I just couldn't stop. However it took me multiple meetings like 12 to really feel things shift and i honestly took my stubborn attitude i still get and kept going back because innately I knew this was about me. I was looking for the easy button for the program and there is no such animal or object. So instead of obsessing about fixing him .. fix you at least you know what's up in your head you don't know with him. My cracked crystal ball only served to get me into more trouble. Hugs s :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Alcoholism is a chronic , progressive fatal disease over which we are powerless. No amount of "talking" "arguing" manipulating will change this fact. AA is the recovery program for the person who drinks and simply because living with the disease, many develop negative coping tools, alanon is the recovery program for the family.
It was in alanon meetings that I was able to break the "Isolation " that I experienced because of living with the disease. Sharing with like minded others , keeping the focus on myself allowed me to finally uncover who I was and see the negative tools I was using that hurt me.
Living one day at a time, keeping the focus on myself, trusting a Power Greater than myself, I found that my life changed for the better because I had stopped" Reacting' and began responding constructively to life.
Love the alanon slogan that states: "Nothing changes if nothing changes"
We do not give advice but do offer simple tools that have worked for us and suggest that you try them. Reading the literature and picking up these tools can affect a remarkable atttitude change in us and life improves
Program works
In my world, there have been many stops/starts with recovery/sobriety. Before Al-Anon, I would get excited and unrealistic expectations came forward in my brain. Each time they relapsed, I felt more and more anxious, overwhelmed, sad, mad and more.
When I truly accepted that I was powerless by working the Al-Anon program, I changed. Today, I am grateful for any sober intervals that exist and have no expectations of what tomorrow may/will bring. I keep my focus on me and no longer make plans beyond me. I trust in a higher power for all of us and pray for his will all around.
I don't really know how or why I was gifted with the grace to love my A(s) unconditionally, at times from across the city, yet I feel it each and every day. Al-Anon is the only change I made and it really, really worked for me. I hope you can get to some meetings and be gentle with you. My denial is how affected and insane I was was listed as I committed to recovery.
(((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
So went to a meeting today. Good meeting. I did a tearful share. Talked to some people after the meeting. Always nice to hear I'm not the only one going through the same things. So reflecting on last night I should have not even asked him about the drinking. Once I realized he had drank enough that his behavior was changed and he was not even aware of me being there I should have just gone into another room with out saying anything or just have gone out to gym or coffee shop or anywhere. (one member today told me she goes to a hotel lobby and sits and reads when she has to get out of the house). So hind site 20/20.
So today when I woke up he was already at the gym. When he came back he said nothing to me--just did his own things whistling around the house like nothing happened. So when he came into the bedroom to go to shower, he asked if I wanted to go to church. I said there was a class I wanted to go to and then I left. I was't ready to even try to talk and knew I needed a meeting. So I was gone for 3 hours. My plan was that IF he was not drinking I would speak my truth to him--just a simple that I did not appreciate his behavior last night and felt his words were mean and disrespectful. (and knowing that he wouldn't say sorry --but knowing I need to say my feelings. If he was drinking my plan B was to go to gym or library or coffee shop to do alanon reading.) When I came home he was in backroom with game on--I didn't say hi to him or check on him or see if he was drinking. Just took my lunch in front room to eat and watch TV. 10 min later he walk out and sys he's going out to watch the rest of the game. And he drove off. So there is no beer cups/cans around and he was not boisterous so I don't believe he was drinking. But my guess is that now he has left to watch the game he may have beer since it will probably be a bar he goes to. But that will be his choice.
I didn't ask him to leave, i didn't say anything to him. He had opportunity to make first move to talk to me. He chose to go watch game elsewhere. So I am going to use this time of alone and quiet to do some alanon reading, prayer, cry and reflect.
Aloha Dance and my suggestion is duplicate the going to meeting experience...Glad you liked it and hope you can keep that positive influence. This program works when we work it and that is why we do what we do whether the alcoholic does what they do. Keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
Well 2 days later I asked to talk with him about what happened. I explained how mad I was that I asked a simple question (hind site I should never have asked and just left room/house) and he could have said anything else and in a nice way--could have said "I don't want to count" or " 4" or whatever. His decision to drink and how much. But his snapping at me was inappropriate and digging away at the Alanon support that I need - and that this was an example of exactly why I needed it, was inappropriate. He had no right to make fun or or demean what I use for support. He apologized (seemed sincere). And he apologized that what he did then took away from/ruined the weekend we had been having. I thanked him for apologizing. And we left it at that. He has been nice this week--not overly but better than he has--saying good day, goodnight, a kiss here and there.
So going into this weekend things have been good. But like tonight I find myself so anxious because I came home to him drinking watching the game. he immediately put his beer behind him more out of site. I went ahead to make dinner and had to ask for some help to get it on quicker for the kids and he helped me with the task I gave him and asked if anything else I needed. so nice.
But I just keep feeling anxious--I can tell he hasn't been going to get more beer from fridge --so I guess cutting back since I'm home. And I know tomorrow is a big sports day and I overheard him talking to his alcoholic brother about where we were going to take a friend of ours to dinner---so basically my anxiety is this---is he going to get drunk during day and then be "life of the party mode" at dinner with our senior friends, and will he keep excusing himself to go to bar at restaurant to watch game and down a quick beer or two while he is there. I know I can't ask him to not drink or even cut back because it will make him mad, and if I ask him that if he just stay home if he has to drink (so I don't have to be around him at the dinner event) that will make him mad. And I know that if he does drink during day and at the dinner and is his "jolly self" which others who don't live with him think he is just "relaxing" --I will be just plain upset/anxious. Unless of course I drink myself to try to relax myself or take medication to relax.
So how do I not jump ahead of myself, how do I accept him drinking, and how do I still protect myself and my feelings????
My projection, FEAR and anxiety was improved greatly by going to meetings, getting a sponsor, practicing the suggestions and working the steps. I know for me that the more I focused on what another was doing or was going to do, the larger my mind magnified the potentials and then the cycle of worry, fear, projection and anxiety grew.
I did not have success in quieting my mind and thoughts before accepting I was powerless and actively chasing my own recovery through Al-Anon. So, suggestions from my experience remain the same - program, meetings, support, steps, literature, etc. I never found any short-cuts for my own recovery, even though I tried.
Good for you that you were able to speak your truth. It has also been helpful for me to focus on what is improving or better than what isn't or could happen. (((Hugs)))
__________________
Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Worrying about what they may or may not do simply caused me to go into a tailspin. Stopping and reflecting on what is best for me in a situation was helpful. This year I cancelled plans with my AD and her boyfriend to spend xmas with them as there was simply too much drama going on in their lives and it takes a toll on me and I get sucked into it. Staying home and having peace and quiet although was a bit lonely and very different then what I am used to, was the best decision for me at the time. I no longer try to make everyone happy, and look for all the solutions to every problem. I continue to treat everyone with love and respect and let them be who they are while I focus on myself.
The worrying and fretting is such wasted energy .. if I had all of that back I would rule the world .. LOL .. what serenity has on her profile picture to me is apt .. "Let go or be dragged".
He's going to drink or not .. what are you going to do? That is from the book Getting them Sober, Toby Rice Drew it's a shame we don't talk about that book more on this site because it's wonderfully alanon even though it's not alanon lit. It is a 1,2,3 punch about the codie loving the addict and what doesn't work. Controlling doesn't work. I find I let go when I am ready, I just get tired of picking out the gravel out of my road rash from holding on.
I'm learning to let go and see things as they are right now with many different situations in my life .. it is to much for me to carry alone. I am so grateful for the loving guidance of people who care about me and my HP. Sometimes it's just to much to bear alone. All you can do is what you can do.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
Social ai tuations with tjhe now ex A really sent me on another planet. I was very focused on him. There are other alternatives to opt out get a headache stay home.
I really minded about all the time the now ex A spent with others. It wasn't as though it was really good quality time.
Eventually I got to the place where I wasn't jumping in When he messed up. I have to say it took me great pain to be willing to detach. I also got busy with my own life. I made plans I go t things that worked for me. One was a job that jusdt cane out if the blue
I had to work really hard to set distance from thge ex A
I have to say it worked. When someonbe says things to me now thast used to trigger my trying to fix them I can let the trigger go. .
The best thing is you have awareness. What had to happen is th e focus comneoff him and into you. How will yoiu manage what will you do to take care of yourself. We all have fallken prey to thinking we can control them. Th e irony is that when thgey not8ce our focus us off them thgey have to shiuft. That di want mean they necessarily get sober. What dies hapo an is they stop bringing all thhe drama to you because you are not responding.
For me I had to be in maximum pain to be willi ng to taj e suggestions. Detaching helped. The other thing that helped was being in thhe program. I started seeing other people recover and I wanted that.
