Welcome to MIP, Gailstewie!

Alcoholism is a deadly progressive disease if left untreated, and the effects of living with alcoholism are pervasive. My grandfather was an alcoholic who thankfully found recovery before my birth. Although my parents did not drink and are not alcoholics, the impact of growing up in a household impacted by alcoholism is very apparent in the actions of my parents and in what I learned as a child to consider "normal" - don't upset the person who screams and slams doors, don't focus on your own needs, etc. I discovered a need to work through a lot of these learned childhood behaviors in order to have a positive adult relationship with my wife. (And wouldn't you know, I chose an alcoholic to marry, and her alcoholic behavior seemed normal to me...)

I can share a few things about my own experience that might help you think through your situation. You will know when you are ready to make a decision, one way or another, and you will know what the right decision is when you are ready to make it. I am by no means saying that my experience is the right way to be, it is just my experience.

My wife and I have often discussed counseling. Usually when I am ready to give up on our relationship. She agrees to go as a "ultimate gesture" to "save our relationship" but never follows through. And, I mean I have set up the appointments, gone to them, and she hasn't shown up. More recently, she initiated the going to counseling discussion. I declined many times over the course of several months to go, but finally agreed to go if she sets everything up. That was 9 months ago, and there has been no appointment yet.

I lock my phone and computer with passwords that my wife does not know, because I need private space and what I do on my electronic devices is not something for her to worry about or control. She can trust me or not, but that is my boundary. She does NOT lock her devices because she wants me to be able to access them and prove that she isn't doing anything wrong. I have never looked through her phone or computer, because I know I am likely to misinterpret things there taken out of context. And, I do not want to get into the business of monitoring her behavior. I know me, and I know I would feel responsible for her behavior and any negative consequences if I knew about it, so I don't get involved. That same mentality applies to our finances - I separated our finances a few years ago, and that is the way it is. She gave me her passwords, and I do not look. She does not have mine. We do not talk about financial issues, because what she does is her deal and what I do is mine. (I know this sounds odd in a marriage, but it is what works for me, and there is a reason I landed on this arrangement for my own sanity.)

My wife has done things that have made me not trust her. That trust is not coming back. But we were able to build a different kind of relationship. For me the trust issue is not a one or nothing, but a "I trust my wife to..." For example, I trust my wife to care deeply about me and my well being. I do not trust my wife to make logical financial decisions. I trust my wife to not go through my belongings. I do not trust my wife to drive any vehicles registered to my name.

I wonder if it would be helpful for you to think about trust in this way - what do you trust your boyfriend to ...? What do you not trust your boyfriend to...? And, are you willing to accept the not trusting things in your relationship, or are there deal breakers for you in there?

You know, one thing I heard early in my AlAnon work, when I was trying to decide whether to stay married or file for divorce, was "You know, deciding not to make a decision yet is also a decision." It was very empowering to me to know that I could each day decide: I will stay married, I will not stay married, or I will not make a decision about this today because I am not ready yet.

Keep coming back to MIP, and face to face meetings as well. There is a lot of wisdom in the AlAnon program.

Welcome to MIP. I have major trust issues with my spouse. I have told her if she doesn't lie to me for a year I probably could start trusting her in the areas I don't. I think Skorpi shared important info about trust. I do trust my spouse in a couple areas, but certainly there are many I don't.

In the spring, when my A drank and drove, I just said I had it, and without her getting serious help, I was done. She finally went into addictions counseling, and part of that is she and I going together. I don't know if we can mend our damage, for it's so much over so many years. But we are finally talking about the hard issues with a neutral party. I did not give her an ultimatum as such, I told her however, that her lack of seeking help would allow me to make a decision for myself. We have a long way to go. We have been together for 26 years. But we have taken a step forward. We both need to forgive the other and that seems like a monumental task. Keep coming back, Lyne

Hi gail, 

Glad you've joined us for recovery and hope you'll keep coming back. Trust is a very important topic in the Alanon program. Lots of Alanon meeting and working the steps really can be a big help with this. From my experience, I had to get good with myself. Basically, I had to truly get to that place of trusting and honoring what I was feeling and myself. I came to Alanon as a people pleaser. It was so deep rooted that I often ignored what I was feeling and took on the feeling of the other person in my relationships and put their feelings first and catered to their feelings and ignored my own. Rejecting people was something I simply didn't do. I had experienced it through being raised with an active alcoholic parent and knew what it felt like to be rejected. I learned in this program that "not now" is acceptable. Telling another person that I need to step away from our relationship and take time to process how I am feeling is a way of honoring my own feelings. "Waiting" is a topic in Alanon. At times there was a little voice inside me signalling me that I didn't trust what someone was telling me or I didn't think they would be a good person to have in my life. When I ignored those feelings, there were reasons I did so. Sometimes I ignored the warning signs because I was attracted to the person either romantically or i admired characteristics they had and wanted to be around them, to have them as my friend. The program helped me to look honestly at myself and my motivations for inviting certain types of people to into my life. Some were seemingly charismatic, self serving people. They were poplular, everyone wanted to be around them. Oh if they would just let me stand next to them and breathe their air, I could be someone too.  I got my feelings of self worth through my association with people like this. Time and time again I threw myself under the bus for people like this. I showed love to just about anyone more than I showed love to myself. Other people I attacted and invited into my life were people who felt they were victims of their alcoholic history deserving of pity. Who could understand them more than another child of alcoholism. Who could love us more than one another because our wounds matched. There seemed to be a desperation on my part to always make it work and do more than half the work to make the relationship work. I had the skewed thinking to believe you could always resolve issues if you just worked harder at them. Today, I know not only is that not so, but healthier relationship really don't require so much work. Working the program thankfully has helped me to patch up and heal the wounded child who at times was either looking for valiation through other people or calling to other emotionally wounded children and sitting in our sickness together. I'm grateful for recovery and a loving higher power that is guiding my life toward greater and greater love of self. I put myself at the top of my Step 8 list, forgave myself for not taking better care of myself in relationships. I just didn't know better didn't fully feel worthy of deserving the best I could give myself. I am very capable of forgiving others and at times even move forward with those people still in my life. The difference today is that I know what my boundaries are, honors those boundaries and when necessary make those boundaries clear to others. I know the god of my understanding is working in my life because dis-ease surfaces again when I don't honor my own boundaries concerning my relationships. When I'm exercising my will rather than my higher power's will for me, I know. I know because I begin to feel emotionally, physically and spiritually unwell. I take that as a sign from my hp that I need to let go and risk to trust that the god of my understanding will continue to care for me and show me better ways of to care for myself to trust and seek mutually respectfully relationships with others. Someone in the program offered a suggestion when I was experiencing an unbalanced romantic relationship. They asked me to think of a person with whom I felt safe and imagine myself in the company of that person feel that sense of safety. They said, "TT that's what love feels like, love isn't desperate." That statement has helped me concerning people I invite into my life today. I'm a safe person, a person worthy of trust. I deserve to be on ther receiving end of that as well. I hope something here is of help to you. It's just my experience. You deserve the best you can give to yourself. You're worth it. (((hugs))) TT

Welcome,

Glad you are here and hope you will keep coming back. I am sorry for your frustrations and pain.

My X grew up in an A home as well as his own addiction issues, one thing that rang so true for me is that when someone grows up in an alcoholic home the secret keeping that goes on both to protect the A as well as oneself seems to abound. My X was very much like that, very guarded and so on. He was also doing things he should not do. You know I did the same thing and it was because I didn't trust people in general.

It's so important in a trusting relationship to be transparent actually in any relationship because when it's out there .. there is nothing to hide. While I believe in personal privacy I have learned the most damaging thing even if it feels justified in the moment is to snoop and I bring my own pain on myself during that time.

My X still does this behavior though with the kids, in the don't tell your mom ways and I hate that because it teaches them not to talk about things we need to talk about such as their feelings and so on.

I think as I have grown with the program it helps to realize that whatever my X was doing wasn't about me and it wasn't personal .. it wasn't the kind of relationship I wanted to have with someone. I am currently in a relationship with someone who is not secretive and selective about sharing .. it makes a huge difference in my trust levels because I feel safe. Which is what anyone really wants to feel safe and accepted, neither of those things my X was able to give and at that time I couldn't give those either. So in my healing I have found a healthier relationship.

Hugs S :)