Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Flipped the Script

WestMan · Senior Member

Yesterday the day started with a flat tire during the morning commute. Changed it and was only 30 minutes late to work. Then found out the weird little bump in my daughter's mouth actually was an abscess. Now at the dentist getting that taken care of.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm telling you there are days .. there are days .. I am so sorry about the little mishap with the tire that is so not fun. I really hope your daughter gets her tooth dealt with mouth pain is totally NO FUN.

Hugs S :)

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Oh.....bummer.....Westman! So glad that tire didn't cause a crash and you done good - 30 minutes!!! So sorry about the bump/more than a bump - I had one of those earlier this year and it was painful! You're doing good - one step at a time, doing the next right thing...(((Hugs))) - thoughts and prayers continue!

WestMan · Senior Member

Yeah it was all ok. Just highly distracting I guess. My work is suffering quite a bit. A friend wants to hang out tomorrow and I'm so starved for adult social interaction that I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure out how I might make that happen. I have no family nearby and haven't established a sitter yet. I guess I need to get that on my list of things to do so I can get two hours outside the house.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Westman)) Good idea. Adult company is a must

_bunny_ · Senior Member

(((WestMan))) I know for me it can be a bit lonely being the primary caregiver to the children. Mine are just barely toddlers so Ive had to get creative when Im in need of some adult interaction. Ive hired a college student that still lives with her parents in my neighborhood to come over during nap time or after the kids are in bed, she loves getting paid to study and I love getting a mommy time out for an hour or two. Ive also kid swapped with a few play date parents, Ill take their kids for an afternoon and they return the favor by taking mine. Thats the wonderful thing about Alanon, no situation is as bleak as Ego would like us to think, I find if I keep an open mind I really do have choices. Thank you for sharing and Im sending prayers your way.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Westman - I recall those challenges when mine were younger! There were times when I would just invite folks over if I could not find a sitter. Sitting with an adult for an evening helps even if I still have to be mindful of my kids. Positive thoughts and prayers continue!

KT2015 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hey there Westman,
You're doing great. I have a close friend who is a single mom doing it all on her own because her XAH can't take care of the kids. She has similar challenges. I go to her place on a regular basis in the evening when the kids are going to bed. Then we have a few hours while they are sleeping to chat, socialize and have a good time. She also found a regular sitter as well and having that option she says really helps her maintain her sanity. Make sure you take care of you!

WestMan · Senior Member

Life marches on. I'm now in a routine. Things are fairly stable and good in some ways. Not so good in others. I've been feeling more at peace and like I'm healing. My kids are really struggling though and while I'm doing better I'm still edgy at times and have low tolerance for the things that kids do normally. Like leaving anything possible on the floor, table, counter, shower, car, you name it. Drives me nuts. And certainly kids need to learn these lessons but I have to rebalance as I've ridden them too hard. Have to be more careful about which things I'm going to point out and when I do show patience and compassion. This is tough for me.

My XAW has moved into another part of rehab program. It's less restricted and has more free time. The plan is for her to be there through January sometime. She had been in some sort of rehab honeymoon phase that appears to be ending. There is some bitterness about her situation now that is seeping out into our conversations. She is feeling like I have pushed her out and want to keep the kids to myself forever. I feel like she is slowly trying to manipulate me. She'd like to forget why we are where we are and would like me to as well.

A couple comments bothered me tonight. She's been in contact with our daughter's teacher. She says for something that has nothing to do with our daughter. Which is weird but whatever. After a busy week and guests over the weekend our girl didn't turn in her homework. She is very forgetful in regards to homework. And I haven't been helping like I should.

My wife casually said she'd just let the teacher know what was going on. I became defensive and made it clear that conversations between the teacher regarding our daughter need to include me. This bothers me because it's one area that I'm really slacking on. But how she just kind of nonchalantly tried to insert herself felt inappropriate. Perhaps I'm overreacting due to my feeling like I'm not cutting it here.

The other comment was regarding the custody. She tried to squeeze some information out of me last weekend on the subject and I said I didn't want to talk about it then. I later told her that whatever happens with custody that I'm committed to having her in the children's life. She has now twisted this into "You want me out of the picture." I was stunned. She says I said things that are far beyond misinterpretation. I made the mistake initially of trying to defend myself and explain but it quickly became apparent that this was the wrong approach.

She finished the conversation off by saying that I should be more sensitive to her position because of how bad I felt when she talked about taking the kids away in the past. What...The...what?!

-- Edited by WestMan on Thursday 16th of November 2017 07:53:03 AM

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Westman))) - Great share and great awareness. It's so good that you are feeling settled and moving forward. I hope you continue to lean into the program and use your tools - they seem to be working well for you. My best suggestion is all about using that Serenity Prayer as best you can, putting a QTIP in your pocket (Quit Taking It Personally) and keep doing what you're doing - focusing on you and the kids.

There is a ton of discussion in recovery (AA side) about the pink cloud. It can be very difficult and is one of many reasons why early sobriety is hard. Yet, we (family and friends) have our own healing/dealing to do and while it would be nice if we all recovered in the same way at the same time, that is just not realistic.

Yesterday at my meeting, another person shared that her child was almost 90 days sober and he'd come for a visit this past weekend. She suggested she could 'see' her child returning - kind, loving, communicative, etc. I am usually genuinely happen when I see joy in others I care about in recovery. However, because I've been distracted by events happening in my Al-Anon group, I immediately went to sadness as mine are in recovery and they are still stubborn, angry, self-centered young men who ignore me often and it hurts!!! So - for the first time in a long time, I was competing and comparing with another member of our program whom I love dearly - urgh!

I share so you know that we are all human and there are days and moments in days that are better than others. I know for me that the holiday season does bring about anxiety and a bit of sadness. It is way better than it used to be, yet it is still 'here' at times. I also know for me that I can reach out to others, share where I am, select some tools and do something different and find my joy again. So can you - in spite of what she or anyone else is doing!

I am back to the surrender mode this morning - I am reminding myself again how powerless I am over other people, places and things. Being gentle with me and trusting my HP and the program is my goal, just for today. Thanks for the update and for your honest share! Keep doing you and be gentle with you.

PosiesandPuppies · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Westman)))

Great share. Great awareness on your part! I know that one of my biggest "failures" was to take my frustrations of my AH out on the small things that my son would do (or not do). Al-Anon helped me to really see what I was doing, make amends to my son, and then tools to help me stop doing this unpleasant and counterproductive behavior!! Perhaps write a list of the things your kids do that really bother you... then take some time to really think about those things. Which of those could you let go of? Completely. Which of those are important, but you could lighten up on (given the circumstances)? This kind of thing really helped me see what was truly important. I found that almost all of them - for me - weren't important enough for me to be raising my voice! It took me using the tool of "Practicing the Pause" to help me see this, though! What especially helped, was before I opened my mouth, I mentally said "Pause." This allowed me to not react to whatever thing my son was doing that annoyed me, and helped me to address it in a gentler fashion.

BTW, I have found that my negative behavior was a direct result of learning to REACT. I was always REACTING to my AH's chaos... at times I have to admit even OVER-REACTING. This was a serenity- stealer for me!

" I feel like she is slowly trying to manipulate me. She'd like to forget why we are where we are and would like me to as well."

I must give my own ESH on this sentence... b/c I feel it is important. I believe this was my AH's downfall to his past rehab/program/self. Once I allowed him back into the home, he first gave up on the meetings... then came meeting the sponsor... then calling the sponsor... finally, he would severely chastise me for not supporting him and "HIS" own program by accepting that he wanted to forget all about his past with his DOC. "I just don't want to look back at that time in my life." "I am embarrassed about it, it makes me feel weak, and I never am going back there again, so quit harping on it!" I still remember that conversation, word for word... mainly b/c it made me feel about an inch tall for doubting him and his resolve to get better...it made me forget my boundary. Also b/c 7 years later, here I am at Al-Anon again, and he is in rehab... again.

Now I know that addiction is a life-long struggle, and that an addict (no matter what the DOC is) must "work" their program daily. Usually for the rest of their lives. How they "work it" is indeed up to them (not us), but to have no program and to want to deny it ever happened, or that they even had a problem is a red flag IMHO.

You sound like you are finding your serenity. Keep at it. With your guidance, your kids will find theirs as well!

Peace

2HP · Senior Member

Wow, amazing progress. Keep in mind we all project outward whatever thoughts are prevalent in our mind. That is why our 12 steps guide us to make conscious contact with God... so that we project God (peace, joy, love...) instead of fear, which is what she is projecting onto you. She can't hear your words when her mind is convinced ( and projecting) some other outcome, and there is nothing you can do about that... except not allow yourself to get hooked by it. When someone is acting crazy and I argue that they "shouldn't"... it only makes me crazy.

as I was going through my divorce, a thought came to me during a meditation -- He was as fearful as I was. When I saw us as "equals" and not me vs. him, or right vs. wrong, or good vs. evil, etc., I had more compassion for us both being consumed by the real enemy, fear. His fear had the power to trigger fear in me and now there were TWO fearful people in the world.

As for the kids, I so remember my need for perfectionism from them back then and so wish I could go back and let them feel my acceptance and love because they were being affected too. Today my kids are adults and I try to amend my wrong by constantly telling them I have confidence in them to know what they need to know, they don't have to be so hard on themselves (perfectionism) and it's good enough. My memories of what I was like with my kids back then is what I regret most. Indeed, I had become sick, affected by alcoholism, and didn't realize it. my life with an alcoholic husband made me feel life was spinning out of control and I often took it out on them, frustrations coming out sideways at the wrong people.

If I could go back... I'd focus more on creating energies of peace in our home... letting go of appearances and illusions....

My sponsor often asks me, "Does it bring more peace? or more stress?"

I didn't know how to do it back then. Thanks to Al-Anon, I can forgive myself. (((peace)))

WestMan · Senior Member

Once again, Thank you for your replies.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Westman)) I admire your courage and clarity Sending positive thoughts and prayers to you and your family.

WestMan · Senior Member

I got a sitter yesterday and for six whole hours I went and did things for me that I enjoy. It was the best day I can remember in a long time. I didn't explain anything to anyone other than making sure my kids knew when I'd be home. Many of my problems have come from my waiting for someone to give me permission to do what I need to do.

Aline · ~*Service Worker*~

Congrats on doing you! Glad to share this journey with you.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

That's soooo huge and really great self care GFU .. it's just good to get out and not have to shoulder everything.

As someone who has raised one and currently raising another not having a partner to co-parent with I learned to take the break where I could. I was blessed to have fantastic friends over the past 7 years who have taken my kid/s both or individually to give me that much needed aha moment .. I love them for that, and I will always love them for that because it kept me sane. It wasn't every week however just once a month was a HUGE thing.

It's overwhelming to carry that kind of weight on your own and be left waiting for "my turn", I had to creatively find ways to make it my turn. It worked out as it needed to.

Hugs S :

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Rock on Westman - good on you for a break and some fun! I love that you can even 'see' what a welcome change it was - and gave yourself permission to have fun. Give yourself an 'attaboy' for self-love! Keep doing what you're doing - looks great on you!

WestMan · Senior Member

As time goes on I'm learning more about what has been happening. Alcohol was definitely part of the problem. But there's also a mental illness piece that is significant. The rehab she's on feel like I now know why her telling me she was alcoholic just never felt quite right, like it wasn't the whole story. I still don't have the whole story but it's helpful to know that my feeling was correct.

But it's still scary. I take the kids for a visit tomorrow and I still get anxious about it a day or two ahead of time. Her final couple incidents before she left shook me terribly and now when I'm going to have to be with her for visits it weighs on my mind.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Westman))) - I believe that feeling some anxiety based on what's happened is perfectly normal. I know that I too have some of that and I do not think it will ever go completely away. For me, what has changed is I feel it, process it and don't allow it to consume me or control me as I did in the past. That's where I feel gratitude for being able to use the program - feel it, process it and then place it where it belongs - on a near-by shelf to learn from.

I am one of those 'root cause analysis' kind of people. When I still worked for others, I was a process person so it's very natural for me to over-analyze a problem to find the root cause to change the process to avoid a repeat error. However, I've had to really accept that people are not processes and I am way powerless over what's going on, especially in the mind/heart of another.

At various points in the last 12 years, both of my boys have been diagnosed with MH (mental health) issues. They also self-medicated extensively. I spent many years focused on the 'chicken/egg' scenario - what came first, etc. What I've come to realize is that it really doesn't matter what came first - it just is what it is. I understand addiction way better than MH issues and have had to truly let it all go as they are adults and truly deserve to travel their own journeys - no matter how different it is from what I wanted/thought. Both of them are currently sober and just for today, I'm grateful for that. I also find comfort that they both do know how to get/seek help should they need it.

I hope you all have a pleasant visit and know that I'm sending you positive thoughts and prayers! You're doing awesome!

Aline · ~*Service Worker*~

Good thoughts your way, Westman.

WestMan · Senior Member

Well I went and angered my STBXAW. I've been bringing the kids for a visit every weekend since the beginning of October. It's a lot of driving and we are always on the road after dark. I haven't had much time to socialize and some friends want to gather the evening of the visit and I want us to go.

So I told her I needed to leave by a certain time. I understand why she's upset. Wants to have as much time with the kids as possible but I'm just so tired. I want to do what's best for our kids but that also means balancing the visit time with other activities.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

You did not anger her. She became angry all on her own by every day grown up people parenting issues. Try not to own her mess. You even empathised with her...

WestMan · Senior Member

True and I do try not to own her issues. At the same time visitation is at my sole discretion. I get to decide when/if she will even see the kids. I have to make these decisions while still getting over my own hurt and anger. I think it's important to get the kids to see her.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree Westman- I see that you are examining your motives and attempting to do the next right thing-- Good Job . Keep the focus on your own needs as well as the children's and enjoy the Holiday- As others have suggested -make new memories

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

I have seen and found that a set visitation that works within my own schedule is what is right for me. So if it is every other weekend and one day a week then I set the schedule. That's what I tried to do it is about what is best for all involved and if I am the one doing all of the caregiving then it's about me.

It is not about anyone else and their issues are their own issues, if it's good for me it's good for the whole. The only time I find that not to be true is if I am being selfish in my demands.

Hugs S :)

PS - I am glad you are doing what is best for all of you .. however if you don't take care of you and your needs it winds up in resentment and frustration which then gets transferred to the little people. I encourage you to do what is right for you and let her deal with her recovery and the visitation will get sorted through. I bet she is angry that you are living your life .. that's not your issue and her response to poor choices that have direct consequences.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Continued thoughts and prayers (((westman))).....what I have recently became 'aware of' is the old habits I have to work on regularly exist in my sons too. When I don't go along with what they think they need/want, their tendency to try and manipulate me or to react is also just below the surface. We are all (AA members & Al-Anon members) working to improve and some things change slower than others.

We've had some flair-ups and issues recently. My oldest who is 60 days sober has decided he needs to move as he can't afford his current apt. I give kudos that he's found someone to take over the lease already and it's a signed/done deal. However he thought he was going to be able to move back in here (with 2 kids half the time) and I had to put the breaks on. It isn't that I am unwilling - it's the timing of it all. This is my busiest time of year and my parents are coming and I just know that we're like oil/water and it's not optimal.

He then assumed he could move into my rental home and that was also rejected. I heard a bit of anger, disappointment, drama and chaos and then I did offer to help him pack for his move and the like. He calmed down and accepted what I was willing/able to do. It's been a sloooooowwwww process for us to get to a point where it doesn't become a total meltdown for him (he's still young, younger with this darn disease). He interviewed for an Oxford House last night and is moving in there instead.

The statement in my signature stays there for a reason - I need it daily ... sometimes more than once!! I need to remember that we are all 'growing up in public' and old habits die hard at times! Good on you for committing to a social outing - you deserve a shake-up as do your kids!! You're doing marvelous!!

WestMan · Senior Member

Still here. Still trying to work this program but haven't had much time to get to the face to face meetings. Hopefully next week.

Apparently my XAW is planning to come back to town. I don't know her plan exactly but she has no interest in coming to our house. I'm a bit disappointed. She had entertained moving out of state, had even asked me more than once if I thought she should. I held my tongue but privately hoped she would move. But it's her life and she has to figure it out.

I now fear we may end up with a custody fight on our hands. As time goes on I feel no more assurance that she is safe for our kids. The only way I know to best ensure their safety is with full custody. I know she won't like it and am uncertain as to what she might do when faced with this prospect. I try not to fret over it too much but I am tired of uncertainty.

She's also started a new thing where she makes these little sideways comments. Insults that leave you wondering if you were just insulted. This has been a disheartening development. Her mother is horrible with this kind of thing and we both agreed for years that it was really toxic. Now here we are. I usually let it go and if I do say something it's a light response such as "thanks for the vote of confidence haha". That one was in response to a comment about my "difficulty" making decisions without taking time to think about it. Because I wasn't immediately changing my schedule when she told me last week that she was coming to town today. When I said that, her response was straight from her mother's playbook, feign ignorance, deny anything was meant by it, play innocent. It was weird. She really sounded exactly like her mom.

As for me I'm developing a relationship with someone special. I guess I don't like things being simple ha. We are trying to take it slow. She is somewhat in the know about this stuff. I recognize that any kind of romance could be problematic right now. I believe I need to continue putting the focus on me if I'm to be successful in a future relationship. She's also been on a similar path. I think we are both looking for something good in our lives right now and are just trying to enjoy the company. It has been good. I'm proceeding with caution.

-- Edited by WestMan on Tuesday 12th of December 2017 07:51:40 AM

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

((Westman)) Missed you and am happy to read that you are moving forward and keeping the focus on your happiness . Remember to not project and live one day at a time . sending positive thoughts your way

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Hey there (((westman))) - it is good to see you again and glad for the update. Good on you for also having/making a new friend - we need fellowship in our lives and there's no harm and no foul in new friends/relationships. You've done such a good job in embracing this program, just keep doing you...I am a firm believer that more will be revealed and I just have to do today, this one day, to the best of my ability.

I too am sending you positive thoughts and prayers - for all of you. Keep coming back!

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Keep doing you, I found relationships while in the throws of a lot of drama can be complicated to say the least.

If you go in with eyes wide open then at least it is what it is and there is no harm no foul. If you are going for custody as a cautionary tale while most States do not view adultery the way they used to I will warn you that introducing your current flame so to speak to your kids before anything is settled is a big no no at least in the state of both IL and TX. So know that can get really complex really quick in that regard. It can drag innocent parties into a big mess. So be aware of what the boundaries are in your area and do not cross them at this point.

I think there is a lot of projection that comes out of those side ways comments and letting them go unless it is completely inappropriate has been my choice. One or two times where my X has made comments that I have fully called him out and usually I did the sorry you feel that way retort to end it. That one was a closed statement and ended whatever was going on.

Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way .. I agree more will be revealed however don't make things harder than they have to be .. just my opinion.

Hugs S :)

WestMan · Senior Member

Just gave my Mother in-law 30 day notice to vacate.

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

Good for you. Major step! I have been following your posts since the beginning. You are making some great positive strides. Prayers and positive thoughts.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Good on you Westman. Self-care and care of those children appear to be your priority and there is nothing wrong with that. I agree with Jen61 above me - great positive forward movement - also sending prayers and positive thoughts.

SerenityRUS · ~*Service Worker*~

Keep moving forward :) Good for you!

WestMan · Senior Member

Thanks. My MIL had been asked many times in the couple years she's lived here to not leave candy for the kids. She always does it anyway. Then the kids hide it from us and it causes problems. Almost immediately after my wife was out of the house she started doing it again and I asked her to stop. It seemed she had.

Then a couple nights ago my four year old gets a little tummy flu and is throwing up. Then was very upset and say she had to tell me the truth. That she has been being given candy by her big sister everyday.

When I asked big sister she was very distraught to the point that I became concerned that there was more to the whole thing but she wasn't saying much. Of course this is grandma leaving the candy for them. There's a little mini village set up in her room where "fairies" leave treats for the kids. So the girls don't actually know it's her.

I've explained to the girls before and again with the older daughter this time that the fairies don't follow the rules. Then she told me the piece that clinched it. She has written letters (plural) to the fairies asking them to not leave candy. But, they keep doing it. So, her grandma is doing this against both me and my xaw's wishes and repeated requests to stop and now against the requests of the grandkids she's supposedly doing this for.

And here's the icing, the older daughter is allergic to dairy but the candy that is left is chocolate much of the time. So, she can't even eat it but has tried to take responsibility for rationing it to her sister in a somewhat reasonable manner while also trying to get it to change.

I was pissed. Spoke with my son, the oldest, who also opened up and told me some other stuff. I knew it was time. Ive been fortunate enough to find a couple therapists for the girls so tan it by them. The older daughter's therapist thought it was probably a good idea to ask my MIL to find another living situation.

So I gave notice. Got a call from my Ex who's still in rehab. I didn't explain any of my decision to her or her mom. I know that just opens the door to BS. She's upset of course. Thinks I'm being mean. I may be being mean. Not purposely but just because it's Christmas, she's old, etc. But I can't have this going on. I'm a single-parent now and will not have another adult living in my house manipulating and undermining. She's made a stressful situation worse for the children, she knew what she was doing and that there would be some sort of consequence.

I'm thankful that I've followed my instincts thus far in not trusting her alone with the children. That I found this out before it escalated to something worse. That I have other support for us.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

((Westman)) You are indeed a great dad Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Good for you westman - there is no shame EVER in enforcing your boundaries. In my world, there are guilt trips at times when I do, yet I know deep down that the support that's most important is reminding me that boundaries are part of self-care and should be honored and respected.

So sorry that this is added to your already full plate. Keep doing you and keep trusting the program and process! I agree - you are a great dad! (((Hugs)))

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

just wondering brother...How are the face to face meetings going? Hear anything new and useable lately? Those are the tools that really saved me from myself and handed my ass back to me too. Let us hear. (((Hugs))) confuse

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene