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Post Info TOPIC: I don't understand


Newbie

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Date:
I don't understand


I don't understand how a man can tell you he loves you in Oct, talk about living together, Nov starts drinking and pushes you away, by Dec on a binge then recovery for the 5 or 6 time. Comes out after 5 months while you've waited only to give you a typed letter saying the same excuses he stated in Nov that aren't reality. He behaves cordial one minute and the next aggressive not wanting anything to do with you. Why has he decided to push me away? Refusing to talk like a man. Worse, I'm made to look like the villain and all I want and need is a few minutes. I've been loyal and faithful and I can't get common decency, why?

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Senior Member

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Posts: 242
Date:

I've been loyal and faithful and I can't get common decency, why? 

******************************
my alcoholic brother's girlfriend who has been long suffering with him,  going through ALL what you listed above, only HIS "getting clean" was forced upon him by the legal system, only for him to "chuck it" and go back to drinking...oh yea, I hear ya----the roller coaster rides that make you vomit...the "i love you today--I love you not tomorrow"   behavior and everything you are describing is what my poor bro's GF has been going through..and hes a NICE guy., just an active, sick, alcoholic....

I got a email from our mutual friend only a few days go who stores his tools and he said "guess what"??? I says  "what???"  and he says   "L---FINALLY decided to let R go and find someone she can have an equal--mutual--give and take---STABLE relationship with and shes GONE"  

I was so surprised..she hung in there a long time but decided that (according to our friend) she wanted a home and family and life in general and HE suggested alanon to her quite some time ago and she began quietly going...didn't say anything but went to meets...got some workbooks on steps, etc., and began quietly working her program, unbeknownst to anyone else, even our mutual friend who emailed me....and she finally decided "I'm done"  she sent bro a text and said  , basically for him to have a good life, she was moving on, letting this non productive relationship go and she wished him the best...AND she said she would pray for him to get into recovery so he does not keep losing the good things in life, even his LIFE itself...

I wondered why he hasn't called me this past few days, but that is the scoop on my brother, he just went to the well to many times, pushing her to the edge with his hot and cold , up and down, inconsistent and unstable treatment of his relationship....no surprise, he adores me and can't even be a source of support or friendship with me...he calls when he is sober, he finally got that down, but hes about as reliable as the Texas weather, AND it (phone call) is usually all about him  sooo, I don't EVER count on him or look to him for anything but a casual phone call, and thats it....hes my brother so it isn't as hurtful to me...

I empathize with your situation...And I am so glad you showed up here....this is your first step in re-claiming your life....I cannot tell you what to do, can't advise you because we don't give advice...all we can do is give you love and support and share with you our experiences IF we have had something similar....I just happened to have found out my brother finally got left to his own devices by his GF who is, i hear, in alanon working her program and getting healthier...my hat is off to her...I told our friend, if he sees her or hears from her, to please let her know that I am in NO way mad at her for taking her life back.....

you can too, whichever path is best for you by working this program and ALANON is for US...it is for OUR health and recovery...alanon teaches us how to focus on US...OUR needs...OUR feelings...OUR welfare, etc....it has saved my life from one of insanity to actually being able to take healthier care of myself

please keep coming back.....we are here...we are listening....you are NEVER alone here...



__________________

Rose:

*** KEEP IT SIMPLE***



~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 13016
Date:

 

 

Aloha Parame and welcome to the MIP Family made up of many AFG (Al-Anon Family Groups) members.   Your questioning understanding is exactly the insanity regarding Alcoholism and the alcoholic.  It is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions and if you get deeper into the understanding as I did the understanding becomes more fulfilling.  Alcohol is a mind and mood     altering     chemical which often explains the ups and downs, ins and outs of the crazy shifty personalities of the drinkers and users.  

Our program, like AA's program is a step program and are identical.  The second step of the 12 mentions came to believe that a "power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity".   I knew I was insane.  I was born and raised in the insanity of alcoholism and one of my most constant thoughts like yours was..."I don't understand".

Al-Anon is for people who have been affected by someone else's drinking and using which qualified me more than anything else for memberships.  I have said what you have said here and wondered likewise.  

You will not get all of the answers you are looking for in just a brief period of time as time is one of the tools of the disease of alcoholism (it is a disease recognized by the majority of medical associations) uses to entrench itself into the lives of its victims.  We come over time to understand that it is a "normal" part of life, our life and the lives of others and so we come to mal-adapt accepting insanity as a part of that "normal".

Alcoholics are not sane...The chemical is mind and mood altering and also alters the physical systems it inhabits.  Alcoholism is a fatal disease.  Without help the alcoholic and the victims reach a demise not found anywhere else except in chemical poisoning.  I was a different skin color when I arrived at Al-Anon thinking I was jaundiced and fortunate to find a nurse member who convinced me otherwise.  I don't drink alcohol any more and got my tan back.

  Pardon my higher education I hope not to bore anyone looking for help.

I suggest you stick around and keep coming back as our membership is experienced and wide.  You will be surprised how many here have thought, felt and said exactly what you have first. 

True Al-Anon Family Group Face to Face meeting can be found in the white pages of your local telephone book.  The numbers are often hotline number that give the caller leads to meetings in the area along with the times.   Those meetings are what saved my sanity and my life.  I suggest you call and go get answers to the questions you have.

Today I understand and I wish that for you also.   Keep coming back.   (((((hugs))))) confuse

 



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Senior Member

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Posts: 148
Date:

Welcome to MIP, Parame, I'm glad you've reached out. I'm sorry you are going through this... I can relate to your situation, I've been through something similar. I sometimes still think of my alcoholic ex-boyfriend as if he's two people - the good him and his evil twin... Now I've mostly accepted that he's BOTH, in a way: him + the disease of alcoholism. I'm very familiar with the changing attitudes of "I love you so much, you're the best person ever" and "you're so selfish, uncaring, disgusting I can't stand the sight of you"... I also tried to understand all this, and drove myself crazy... With the help of Alanon I've mostly been able to Quit taking it personally, because alcoholic does what he does because of his disease... I would suggest for you to find some local face to face Alanon meetings and attend. I can truthfully say this program has helped me tremendously already, and I haven't been here for very long... This board is also great, I remember when I first posted here, I couldn't believe how nice and caring people here were, I'd never seen anything like it on the internet before... I send you warm thoughts and cyberhugs, ((((Parame)))). Keep coming back

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Newbie

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Thanks so much. I will definitely seek out a meeting. It hurts my heart that he won't talk to me. He turned 57 this year, is spoiled, always taken care of by family, friends or the women he had relationships with. Despite what he lacked, and I've said this to him, I fell in love with him as a person. Everyone likes him because as knowledgable about certain things he's read, he's in denial about so many more things. He speaks Italian, German, English, Spanish and Russian. He is a manipulator and his lies are his truth. I realize it's not just the alcohol but possibly he's bipolar or manic depressive. I thought he tried pushing me away before I found out his secret. I just don't understand why it's like he wants to destroy me. I was almost suicidal when he text me "stop calling, stop texting, dnot leave messages". Yet before that I was told, oh I had a good day, you were the last person I kissed. I partly think unfortunately he has allowed his brother and other people to get into his head. I know I have to move on but I've been holding on thinking he will wake up. And now because of his manipulation I have had to state that if i go to the restaurant where he works to enjoy myself and the friends I've made, I won't try talking to him because of his aggressive behavior and ignoring of me. When just last week I dropped his books off and he was cordial as we could and should be. He can't handle being in a relationship he says but why treat me like crap when I was there for 5 months while you were getting sober. I'm hurting.

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~*Service Worker*~

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I'm so sorry you are going through this.  The question I finally came to was not "Why is he like this?"  The answer to that was something like: he was brought up badly, he has always used alcohol to cope, and the alcohol has messed with his brain processes which were self-absorbed and dysfunctional anyway.  But the real question I came to was: Why do I remain attached to a person who has treated me so painfully, who has a long history of being unable to give back in a relationship, who only is able to give me appropriate attention a small fraction of the time, and who shows every sign of continuing to be the way he is?  The answer in my case was something about trying to remake the dysfunctional relationship with my sometimes-rejecting parents, with not having developed coping resources on my own, with seeing him as my savior and knight in shining armor (I'm embarrassed to say, but it's true), and with being unwilling to face the pain that came with the realization that he could never give me what I needed.

I hope you'll find a good meeting - nobody should have to deal with folks like this without support.  Take good care of yourself.



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~*Service Worker*~

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I too welcome you to MIP Parame - so glad you found us and glad that you shared and joined right in. As pointed out above, the Al-Anon program gave me the support and tools to better under the disease and how it affects all - the drinker as well as those who live with or love them. It's a progressive disease and while there is no cure, there is treatment in recovery.

Al-Anon saved my sanity and truly helped me heal/deal.....I'm so glad I found the courage to attend a couple meetings (took two places to find a good fit) and they welcomed me and listened without judgement, preaching, etc. We each get to work the program at our pace and we are welcome whether our 'person' is in recovery or not.

You are not alone - keep coming back here and know that there is help and hope in recovery! Sending you some positive thoughts!

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



Senior Member

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Posts: 355
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Hi Parame. I remember one of my qualifiers telling me that he had gotten through life by "always keeping the edges fuzzy". Basically, keeping everything in a mild state of confusion so that he would never have to make a decision or face the consequences of his actions.
My partner behaved in many of the ways that you describe and I came to understand that he seemed to be basically doing that same thing- keeping everything in a state of confusion so that he never had to make a choice he might regret. It was very stressful and I allowed myself to become very sick trying to understand what he was doing and why he was doing it (when he was actively trying to prevent that very thing!!!)
There is a book called "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews that I believe is very helpful with this sort of dynamic. Ignore the title- it's actually an excellent book and I'd highly recommend it. It helped me a lot.

What I eventually learned was that I couldn't change his behavior and I couldn't force him to meet my needs. Al-anon taught me to accept him the way he was (because I just don't have the power to change him) and to find ways to make sure my needs were met that didn't involve relying on someone completely incapable of doing it. That didn't mean I couldn't see him or have a relationship with him, it just meant learning to value my happiness and finding ways to achieve it in spite of my partner's problems. I am a much happier person today because of it and as a nice side effect, other people seem to treat me far more respectfully and lovingly too. I won't tolerate horrible treatment and because of that, people that want me in their lives have had to adjust their behaviour...those that haven't, I no longer waste my time with.
I'd highly recommend giving al-anon a try; it's a life-changer

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Senior Member

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Welcome Parame,
Everyone has written some great shares. My alcoholic ex-bf was moody and I never knew what his state of mind would be. He could be fine in the morning and two hours later he was a totally different person. Sometimes he would say the cruelest things. I became very depressed and had low self-esteem. One day I realized that instead of worshiping a loving God, I was worshiping this man. I decided to start praying that God would make me not attracted to him. It might sound weird, but eventually it worked. I stopped taking his phone calls and disabled the texting on my phone. It was hard but in the end I am a much happier person today. That is why Alanon has been so helpful to me. We work the 12 steps and the second step is, "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. " Sometimes I will read that over and over when I have doubts in my mind. It brings me a lot of peace. I hope things get better for you.



-- Edited by shrnp on Sunday 16th of July 2017 08:09:58 PM

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Sharon 



Senior Member

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Hello and welcome, Parame. I'm sorry you're hurting. Many of us have been in similar situations in some way, shape or form. I recently ended a relationship with my fiancé. I went through several relapses with him and I held on through many ups and downs. It took me a very long time to acknowledge this relationship was not going to be as healthy and fulfilling as I had really, really, really hoped it would be. I did not stop loving him. But I stopped being able to withstand the dysfunctions that come with active addiction and possible mental illness (like you mention). And the lies and deception... were destructive.

I was willing to stand by him while he got help, I was willing to help him get help... and I did... but what happens when the person who needs the help is not helping himself? When he's doing more damage than good for his own self? That's where I found myself.

I'm going to suggest that maybe you don't understand because some things are not understandable. That is, you are dealing with an individual who is not well. Not healthy and not rational. And you cannot expect a rational response from a person who is not sober and/or healthy and/or reflective and taking responsibility for his behavior and the effect it has on the people in his life.

I'd also suggest that none of his behavior really has anything to do with YOU. He is behaving this way for reasons that most likely have nothing to do with you as an individual.

Anyway, the Serenity Prayer has become my new best friend. And the question now, is what are you going to do for yourself? How can you take care of YOU? We do not have the power to change other people (sad but true! and in a way, a relief!!), so what can you do to make life easier and more agreeable for YOURSELF? I hope you'll try some face to face meetings, because you will find rooms full of people who have walked similar paths. There's a lot of experience and wisdom there. It's a gentle program that lets you move at the pace you're comfortable with.  All the best to you.

 

 



-- Edited by Junenine on Sunday 16th of July 2017 09:40:22 PM

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a4l


~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 749
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Welcome Parame. In a nutshell, I believe it is just the nature of the disease alcoholism. Keep coming back.

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"When one door is closed, don't you know,another is open?" Bob Marley.

Bo


Senior Member

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Posts: 222
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Welcome...

I heard, at face to face meetings -- you can't apply logic to an illogical person, and you can't apply logic to an illogical situation or an illogical disease.

That said, I too find that it is simply the nature of the disease. It is an insidious, cunning, baffling, enigmatic, progressive, and decimating disease; and it is one that impacts not only the person afflicted with it, but also the people around him/her. For me, the more I try and figure out why the person did what they did, said what they said, and so on, the more I drove myself crazy, and the more I got frustrated, angry, scared, agitated, and more.

Keep coming back.

 



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Bo

Keep coming back...

God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...

 



Senior Member

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ya know, when I see it called "cunning, baffling, enigmatic, progressive, insidious and decimating" reference to alcoholism, its almost like it has a monstrous life on its own...sort of another personality, taking over the original person.......I am glad I am free of this monster....we used to , as kids, make fun of my beloved Aunt Harriett (rest her beautiful soul) because she would never allow alcohol in her house or around her.....now, looking back...she was the one who was right....My house is alcohol free, drug free, yes, I have my perscribed medication that I have to take, but illicit drugs or alcohol, is not welcome in my home....my cousin who slept over on Fri. night, we reminisced about her dear mom who rescued me from my hell many times...I adored this short, sassy, bigger than life little lady who was fearless....she would come into the hell hold and DEMAND that the freak and the alcoholc let her take me with her....Nobody dared to mess wiht this lady....she was my hero....and she was right abaout staying away from alcohol and folks who abuse it.....Just saying

Please keep coming back...this program is my miracle...it taught me how to keep the focus on me, my actions, my thoughts, my realm of control, etc., I don't try to analyze folks who are not rational....I just send them peace energy and I put serious distance......

__________________

Rose:

*** KEEP IT SIMPLE***

Bo


Senior Member

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Posts: 222
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Interesting perspective mamalioness. While I stopped "trying to figure it out" -- with the it being the disease, the person, why they do what they do, why they said, why they whatever, I still often have to look at a person or situation and have to detach, not enable, say no, whatever the situation might call for. When I do that, in order to make sure my thinking is clear, healthy, etc. -- I look at the person and realize and remind myself -- my step-son is not a bad person...he is just a sick, unhealthy person, who has a disease. When I read the steps, I see the words -- I, we, our, us...not them, him/her, their, etc. While I don't view that as decisive, I do view the disease as something that has already damaged another person's life, and if I allow it, it can damage, consume, infiltrate, etc., my life. It has in the past.

My over-analysis sometimes kicks in and I think about "he doesn't "want" to get better" or "he hasn't hit rock bottom" or "he's still using, so he's decided to not get better" -- and all that kind of thinking. I know it's not a want at certain times. But when a person hits rock bottom, is sick and tired of being sick and tired, whatever the catalyst is -- it is then, when they want, that is when they will make the effort to get better. Other than he doesn't want, I don't know that there is a simple, accurate way to "assess" the other person and what they are doing or thinking, vis a vis getting better or quitting. I do understand they have a disease, a sickness, and that it has "consumed" them at times. I view the disease as taking over their life, because at certain points, in my experience, I've seen the moments where all they want, nothing was more important, nothing -- than that next drink or next hit, needle, whatever. Those moments are so sad because I see my loved one and they do whatever they can -- lie, steal, cheat, hurt someone, etc. -- just to get that drink or drug. I saw my ex-wife do things that made my cry. I saw my step-son do the same. Sad, very sad. I don't know that the disease has a separate life, but in my experience, this disease certainly took over my AEW's life, my step-son's life, and numerous other people I've seen, known, etc. At leas that's the way I view it in my experiences.

Thanks for your perspective.

__________________

Bo

Keep coming back...

God, grant me the serenity...to accept the PEOPLE I cannot change...the courage to change the ONE I can...and the wisdom to know it's ME...

 

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