Hi Curly,

My experience was that talking to my husband about his drinking did not change anything, until he had hid bottom and was ready to make amends to me.

One time, before things had gotten bad, he actually asked me if his drinking bothered me. I told him it made me worry about his health. He heard me, but nothing really changed. I honestly didn't realize at the time that some of his troubling behaviors had to do with drinking ... I was clueless.

Later on, while he was recuperating from a horrific medical crisis, I spent three evenings at dinnertime sharing my feelings ... crying, explaining how I was so stressed, at the end of my rope, couldn't bounce back any more from these events, etc. He listened patiently, and after the third evening, he said he didn't want to talk about it any more. As I later realized, he couldn't fix my feelings in any case ... I was the only one who could fix my feelings.

One thing that did work, though, was talking about specific behaviors, not about drinking. Two things that bothered me greatly were that he'd play music too loud and not listen to requests to turn it down, and that he would get argumentative with family and be rude to the servers in restaurants. So I found a way to tell him calmly that those specific behaviors bothered me. He came up with a code word that I could say if he was doing these behaviors in public. And he did, indeed, stop doing those things.

Finally when he had become gravely ill and had talked with a therapist, he sat down with me and asked me if his drinking had bothered me. This time he really listened. I had "moved on" mentally -- with the help of Al-Anon -- although we were still married and I made sure he was being cared for. I honestly don't know if he drank between that time and his death a few months later, but I do feel that we both redeemed ourselves by speaking honestly to each other.

Hi Curly,

I too struggle with wanting to let my AH know what he said and did after the fact. I know nothing sinks in while drinking, but I  thought if he heard it while sober, he would understand how hurtful his words and behavior can be. Even if he lets it in and sincerely apologizes ( it's usually met with denial and finger pointing, though) it only makes an impact for maybe a day or two. 

The addiction/disease is too strong; the compulsion to drink is beyond any words, tears, threats, anything we can say or point out how they act while drinking / drunk.  It makes no difference. None.

I also can tell as soon as he walks in the door. He doesn't have to say a word; the aura is different. I have pointed out that I am not fooled, but he doesn't really care. The disease is bigger than us and our qualifiers - our words don't change anything. The desire to beat it needs to come from them.  That's why interventions don't have great success.

I totally get where you are coming from, though. It takes some real effort on my part to not bring up what happened last night  or to re-hash past behavior.  I like free-time's idea about a code word....that might help, but it puts the burden on us to police behavior.

This is my experience anyway.  It is so tough to seemingly ignore bad behavior, but it is tougher to keep getting nowhere no matter what we try. Better to develop alanon tools to help ourselves stay sane admist the insanity.

(((Hugs)))

Ellen

-- Edited by El on Saturday 15th of April 2017 01:58:26 PM

Thanks everyone for your shares. I know I have a long way to in finding my path. And how to function in this strange relationship. One day we a "normal" functional couple....next he is drunk and moody. I have become more aware what and I say when he is drinking. Most days I feel like I live with two men. At times I feel like I have to be different depending on who shows that day. This time I didn't really talk to him much about it. I did go into the room and laid on my bed (it's my bed too!) And just simple said "you're an a$$$$$$, you know that right" laid there for a little while longer then told him my plans for the day. Which didn't include him unless he choose to join. Leaving it at that. I felt good. I didn't need to relive his behavior for him or me. I've come to accept that nothing I say will ever flip that "magic switch". For me there will be days where I don't "need" to talk about it. And I know that somedays I will, as long as I say what I mean, mean what I say, just don't say it mean.... As I learn more about me and my recovery I'm sure this all will become less as well.

Curlyblu wrote:

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For the longest time, the morning after my A had been full out drunk, I would go in before he crawled out of bed and have this huge heart to heart about how I was feeling. Sometime repeat the mean things he had said. Because often at that time we would end up in a full out argument. Since finding this group. I've detached from that. Not that I ignore it I know is drunk, I don't engage with him so we don't argue which to be honest is a relief. But now there is no acknowledging that he was drunk at all. But the elephant is there taking up space. Part of that makes me mad (mine to deal with). I want him to know he's not fooling me. The minute he walks in I know, I can tell. And I hate it. Why do I want him to know....I thought it was about him, it's about me standing up to it setting my boundaries. Speaking up about his drinking to him is my voice that I'm getting back. ESH please, do you discuss the drinking with your A?

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What do you want to do? To say? Anything? You want him to know that he's not fooling you?

"...it's about me standing up to it setting my boundaries." The voice you are getting back? If the elephant in the room is there -- what about you? This is about you? What do you want to do? Talk to him? OK...check your motives. Why? To what end? What do you want to accomplish?

Curlyblu wrote:

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For the longest time, the morning after my A had been full out drunk, I would go in before he crawled out of bed and have this huge heart to heart about how I was feeling. Sometime repeat the mean things he had said. Because often at that time we would end up in a full out argument. Since finding this group. I've detached from that. Not that I ignore it I know is drunk, I don't engage with him so we don't argue which to be honest is a relief. But now there is no acknowledging that he was drunk at all. But the elephant is there taking up space. Part of that makes me mad (mine to deal with). I want him to know he's not fooling me. The minute he walks in I know, I can tell. And I hate it. Why do I want him to know....I thought it was about him, it's about me standing up to it setting my boundaries. Speaking up about his drinking to him is my voice that I'm getting back. ESH please, do you discuss the drinking with your A?

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Aside from checking your motives -- which is very often not easy, and your sponsor and objectivity can and will help -- I really feel that "no acknowledgement" that he/she was drinking, drunk, etc., whatever they were, is about expectations and desires. Why acknowledgement? What am I really wanting, want to accomplish, what result am I wanting, and so on. I think it's about -- I want to be right! I want what I want. I want him/her to admit it, promise they will not do it again, apologize, admit it and take ownership. All of that can happen...in Fantasy Land! LOL. When I went through this, my sponsor asked me a lot of these questions. When he pushed me, and held me accountable...we then went on to the next discussion...what did she want, what was she saying she wanted, what was she doing, and so on.

She will not quit drinking...UNLESS...and UNTIL...SHE wants to. Period. So here I am wanting all these things -- acknowledgement and all -- and she wasn't going to meetings, wasn't wanting to stop, wasn't looking to live a life of recovery...Now she said all those things...but she wasn't doing it. She made it clear.

So, what's the answer? Here it is...this is about ME.

Lee51 wrote:

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I'm only two weeks new to AlAnon, going to meetings twice a week. What has made the biggest impression on me is that Al Anon is about ME, not my AH. After years of guilt and shame, I am finally willing to give in to the ideas that I didn't cause his drinking, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. I hope he will get treatment, but I am trying to live in THIS day, and let go of the "only ifs." Reading about detachment has helped me a lot. I'm in a place right now that my meetings and spending some time each day reading and working on the steps are my priorities. I'm thinking in terms of alcoholism (or living with an alcoholic) being a disease that needs treatment as much as diabetes, cancer, etc. I can choose to get treatment for myself, but I can't force my husband into treatment. That letting go mindset is hard to grasp for those of us who have spent so much time trying to "fix" something we just can't. I hope you'll keep coming back for support and attend some meetings to gain insight to how others are coping. Peace.

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Two weeks? And you have an excellent handle on the fundamentals of this program, and you are beginning to make change in YOU. You are focusing on YOU...which is the very first action step in getting healthy, getting better. Congratulations! You've let go of the guilt and shame -- and keep doing that -- and you've gotten a handle on what I feel is the most important foundation and the very first step in getting better...ACCEPTANCE. Keep doing the work. You are well on your way, and again, congratulations.

One other thing -- when you are ready, comfortable, after a period of time, when you become a seasoned member of this program...and this is very important...please give back, pay it forward, please be there for someone new, someone in trouble...like someone was there for you.

(((Curlyblu)))
I too struggle with the elephant in the living room. I have found that there is no way to "talk" to my AH about his episodes and get anything I need back from the conversation. Usually I am subliminally wanting him to say "Oh my gosh, I had no idea I was treating you so poorly last night! I am so sorry for hurting your feelings that way and I will do my very best to never let that happen again." The fantasy can then go on to him admitting he has a serious problem with alcohol and vowing to get in to some form of treatment right away. If I am really swept away, it can continue with a trip to the antique store where he buys me something old and beautiful to show his sorrow and repentance. Then I wake up!! :)

I guess for me, having an outlet at my Alanon meeting to share my feelings and be heard and understood is the lifeline I cling to. I can't cling to my AH for my emotional needs. I am working very hard to find my own ways to meet my own emotional needs. And the elephant will have to stay around a while longer I guess.

It is a difficult path we travel. Not for the faint of heart.

Blessings to you!

Bo wrote:

 

Forget about WHAT you want to say...my question is WHY do you want to say it? Because it is for me. For me to say what needs to be said. Why does it need to be said. Because of the relationship we have always had..........we talk about everything. He says I'm not a mind reader you have to tell me what's going on. So if I'm annoyed by something to he did or said.....drunk or sober, it's up to me to decide if it something I need to talk about. Check your motives.Yes there was a time that I hoped that my talk would find that magic switch, I've accepted that and that it does not exsist. He/we both know it is up to him to decide if this is how he wants to live. He has been through rehab once before. He fully remembers it. I don't need to remind him of that. That is not in my control. He knows and I know that I can do anything that will make him anything about it. People often look at the slogan/catch phrase -- does it need to be said, does it need to be said now, and does it need to be said by me...my point is WHY? It doesn't always need to be said....I look at what he said or what was behavior.....did he just come home and we watched tv or he just went to bed......I don't need to say anything. Reminding him of how he behaved the night before? Why? To make him wrong? To show him, prove to him, remind him that he was wrong, that he did something he should not have done? If he came home home and choose to be rude, did his daughter hear the things he said? Then probably yes I will say something......he talks to her all the time about bullies......when she looks at me says "mommy daddy tells me not to be a bully to anyone, but he is being one to you" then yes I will say something to him. 

This is exclusively about YOU. If you want to get better, this is where you need to do the work, on YOU. Focus on YOU. 

For me, this was always about boundaries...and I focused on doing the "I" part of the boundary...and not saying anything, pointing out, pointing the finger, etc., at the alcoholic. When the alcoholic did _____________ then I ________________ and I focused and made sure I did the I part. Now, this doesn't mean I ignore what happened. It doesn't mean I pretend it didn't happen. I didn't overlook or forget about it. But I focused on me and looking at what I needed to do. These "she drank again" incidents kept happening. For me, this is what I need to do, not everytime he is drunk. When my gut tells me, I often listen. It's now about how I say it and what I say. Before I didn't care if I said it mad, rude or hurtful. That wasn't helping me either just created more anger within me....because he wasn't hearing me. Now I really do think about I speak....and yes even when I said "you're an a$$$$$$, you know that right" it sounds like I was being mean, I wasn't, he knows exactly what that ment without me saying anything else. In that moment I didn't need to go any further into the night before. There was nothing else I needed to say. That was enough for me, and I was able to move on and have a great day. 

I felt like I was giving a never-ending supply of one last chance...and I had to ask myself...is this the way I want to live my life? 1 month? 3 months? 6 months? 1 year? 5 years? 

 By talking to with him, I'm not giving him one last chance to do anything, he will do what he will do. I'm already 11 years in. I chose to stay for my own reasons. Now I'm just learning what works for me. If that means talking to him about it the next day, then that is what I will do, if I feel deep down it is something I need to do for me. Maybe in time I won't need to....that I can't say. For me this is my process......most definately isn't perfection.

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I'm with Serenity - while recovery is a WE program, it's also about a personal journey. What makes 12 Step recovery so successful is that nobody outranks another and those who work the program offer ESH instead of advice and direction. Working the steps was what helped me see what made me 'tick'. I was able to identify that when my A(s) raised their voices, a part of me felt instant fear. I then raised my voice not to compete or even to be right but to defend my self/honor. What I had to learn was I did not need to defend my honor - my HP did that each time he carried me through another debacle caused by this disease. When I stopped reacting, the 'game' changed. My favorite line now when any of the 3 come at me insanely is a simple, "Are you done yet?" I respect them enough to allow them to carry-on and then vacate as quickly as I can with dignity, grace and self-respect. My struggle of recent is some verbal assaults when I was not reacting or responding - they love to get a rise out of me. I am becoming aware that I need to change up some boundaries again - my children tend to get verbally abusive when they don't get their way and mother or not, I no longer find this remotely tolerable.

I love considering JADE in all my affairs. If I am invited out and don't want to go, I can just say, No - thank you for the invite. I don't have to go on and on with an excuse or reason. Those who love me respect my answer and accept it as it is. The reverse is true too - my sponsor just texted and asked if I want to golf tomorrow. I am hurting right now because of this disease and wanted to say No. Yet, the program has taught me that isolating when I am affected by this disease is an unhealthy choice, so I just said Yes - I will be there unless you tell me different.

The program for me is about me becoming the best version of me in spite of what anyone else is doing around me. It's about stepping out when I want to stay in and cry/isolate. It's about being of service so I am not alone with my own crazy brain. It's about this one day and setting aside my ego, pride and fear long enough to recognize my HP has it all under control....even when it doesn't feel like it.

I'm still with my AH and he's still drinking. I no longer concern myself with that - instead I focus on what's good about this god-given day and how can I be the best me no matter what else is going on. Step work is where I learned how to truly identify my motives. Before then, it was hard, confusing and I had many uncertainties. This program is about progress always....never perfection. The longer I am in recovery, the more I find that I can work on, look at, reconsider, etc. We are always Works in Progress and if/when I believe I am 'well' I am gently reminded by reality that's not the case.

Do you; just do you each day, trust the program and process, and lean into your HP. More is and will always be revealed....For your actual topic question, my sponsor has suggested I can only talk to my qualifiers about their disease in statements that are about how it affects me. I love them all very much and after I peel back all the insanity, I am ultimately fearful of loosing them to the disease. So - that's one of my go to statements I am allowed to say, "I am very concerned about your health or sanity or life or future...." I statements when I feel the need to have discussions have certainly removed a ton of tension in my home - starting anything with a You or When You is a straight-up attack - nobody wants to be 'there'.

You are doing awesome - keep learning, growing and anytime you find yourself focused on him, redirect as best you can back to you!! That's what was suggested to me and it did help tons!! (((Hugs)))

It's going to get better because you are going to get better. Progress not perfection. You said something interesting .. something to think about .. "We can go 3 to 4 days without a drink". My ex got a dui and I drove a couple long timers here crazy .. Not crazy however the forehead slap.. lol .. I kept calling it "our DUI". I haven't had a dui I don't plan on one.. It was totally my ex's DUI. I needed to take ownership for some crazy reason .. I can't tell you why .. Lol. You qualify as an Alanoner .. HE can't go without a drink or drunk. Yes .. You can and there are people out there who stay with the active A. They live fulfilling lives for themselves. Big hugs .. Keep coming back.