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My A is trying/pretending not to have drinks. It's been almost 2 weeks now, and there has been one time that I'm 99.9% sure he had drinks before he came home. At home he doesn't....there's nothing in the house....he drank it all when he went on his full drunk that lasted days.
I'm finding I don't know how to talk to him. He just sits and watches whatever it is he is watching on TV. Usually sports. I feel like I'm more on ego shells now than when I know he's drunk.
The day that I was 99.9% sure he had drinks outside the home, he came home with all kinds of stories to tell me. He wanted to laugh, tickle me, joke around....but I couldn't. I was able to use a tone that didn't set him off. He thought I was enjoying his "teasings" like I normally would. But I wasn't I was mad.
The following night he hadn't had anything. And again I find I'm mad. What is going on??? Mad when he drinks....mad when he doesn't.....am I supposed to be sympathetic when he's not drinking because he's in pain, probably physical pain too?
When he isn't drinking/drunk...I want to talk with him. Not about this stuff....life stuff in general. But he ignores me a lot. Or has 0 interest in anything I want to talk about, will snippy with replies to suggestions I make about home improvements I want to do......I don't get it.
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When it Rains, Look for Rainbows. When it's Dark, Look for Stars-unknown
Hi Curly I so understand Working the Steps helped me to let go of my residual anger and resentments so as to be able to live in the day and in the moment. Recovery is a process.
Today's reading in the ODAT is a powerful reminder . Paul just posted his thoughts on this subject to the MIP Board.
For me it seemed to all make sense when I learned about the nature of the disease. I learned its not about me, its his, all of it, it belongs to him and he will or wont. My own anger and resentment was mostly due to me taking his drinking personally, I believed he was choosing drink over me and the kids or I thought he was trying to pull the wool over my eyes and his sneaking about and other behaviours were all a personal insult to me. I was wrong, it was never about me, it was always much bigger and more powerful than me. I cant cause this or cure it. I learned to also not judge the person either. If Alanon teaches us this is a disease then why would we punish or scold or ignore? Why not make him a cup of tea. It doesnt mean we need to engage too much either in terms of unacceptable behaviour we dont accept it. We remove our bodies away from it. Its a hard road but without Alanon its impossible.
Hi Curly,
I live with an active AH myself. I can completely relate to your post as the scenario sounds similar to mine. Detachment helped me a lot with that stuff. For me, I realized that I was walking on egg shells constantly or trying to anticipate his mood/needs/behaviour so I could fix it change it or make things smoother. It never worked though. It doesn't matter what I do or don't do my AH is going to drink because he has a disease that compels him to drink. My AH also tries to hide his drinking from me. He has a bad day and comes home from work early and has a bunch of drinks then only drinks one drink in my presence. Last night I went out and he drank a whole lot of alcohol and then when I got back he was drinking water. He was stumbling and fighting to keep his eyes open but trying to give off the impression that he's only drinking water. This was so sad for me to see but I realize I am powerless over it. Talking to my AH when he is drunk OR in a very bad mood never works for me. I have worked at building up other support systems in my life with friends and some family members that I can lean on when I need support. There are times when my AH just can't give me that support. And I have learned to accept that, detach from it, seek out support from other people in my life that are willing to give it. This has made a huge difference in my happiness. My AH has been in a particularly bad space lately, his drinking has increased, his anger is off the charts and all seems to be directed at me. So instead of sitting around trying to resolve things with him which is pointless and making myself miserable I spent most of the weekend doing other things. I got some things organized in my office, had lunch with my mom, watched a movie with my daughter and connected with some friends. This morning when I had something big at work and told my friend she was excited for me and I realized I hadn't even told my AH because we aren't speaking much right now. It made me sad for a moment but I didn't dwell on it like I would have in the past. In the past I would have let that ruin my day or ruin my excitement over it. I might have even called him up and told him how he ruined my day for me lol that's when I realize how much I have grown. What are some ways you are able to detach and put the focus back on you?
I heard around the tables that it is harder to deal with a sober drunk than an active one .. biggest reason at least when they are drunk you know what to expect. I'm really referring to the dry part of the deal. I began to anticipate the other shoe dropping and it made it really difficult to deal with because I was always in wait mode .. it's like being at war with an enemy you can't see, feel, or touch, I left out smell for me I could always smell the alcohol or the pills don't ask .. it's a weird thing. It's like smelling death to me. There is an odor to it.
I really struggled with how to talk to my A .. my bigger issue was I don't deal with drunks .. that's just a fact because they don't remember from one min to the next what you have discussed and recalling the conversation is near impossible if they have been drinking. I didn't know how to be kind to him at that point so again it was not going to be a nice conversation .. I really learned to just remove myself from the situation. I was accused of being cold. I was just to new into the program and the lack of logic for me was always a struggle and still is .. sometimes the removal of the alcohol doesn't make the person any nicer they just happen to be a sober jerk. This has been true in my case of dealing with my X .. hence he's an X for a reason, just a season that stayed to long.
I agree the less I made it about me the easier it was for me to see my truth in the situation and leave him to his.
Hugs S :)
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
I too can relate to what you share. When I was just starting out, it was a challenge to keep the focus on me, keep my mind from wondering and/or projecting. What I came to learn with the help of others who came before me was small things could help change my focus for increments of time and I felt better when this happened. It was a mental transition of sorts to go from being consumed with fear/more about what they were doing and the disease and the using and the ......................... to being distracted by something for me.
Taking a short walk gave me distraction and peace. Bathing the dog gave me distraction and peace. Cleaning a closet - same. Program literature - same. Calling a program friend - same. Changing what I was physically doing was very helpful for me to change up what my brain was doing.
Detaching for me wasn't a thinking process by itself - it was a conscious decision to do something new, different, productive for me and the mind followed.
My qualifiers tend to suggest I am annoying when I talk to them and/or ask questions. So - as I worked the program, I decided that I would let them start conversations unless it was mission critical. This was hard as I had self-appointed me as the house manager, the PIC (person/parent in charge), etc. Yet, I practiced keeping my mouth closed and just going about my day. I stopped asking what time they wanted dinner and what they were in the mood for, and instead selected what I wanted and announced when it would be ready. If they joined, great - if not, I enjoyed and cleaned up.
Small changes in how I went about my day and who I considered first helped me learn to detach. Over time, things calmed down as they came to realize I was moving on daily and I was at peace and happy. I still get sad that they are stuck/sick/active, but turn them over again and again - asking God to make their journey as lovely as my own.
Change is difficult and it got a bit worse before it got better. Just keep doing what you are doing and trust the process!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
From all that you all have shared, that seems to be where my issue lays...with the detachment part. After all these years of doing the same thing day after day. Any amount of change to that routine my A figures something is up. Even if I do something to remove myself from the area, right away he figures I'm mad, ignoring him...so much so if I move over to the other side of couch and not in my wore in spot beside him....he thinks I'm in a bad mood. One time I came home he was passed out on the couch. My daughter and went to watch TV in my room...he woke up came bursting in, mad, because I wasn't in the living room. I truly feel damned if I do...or if I don't.
Ha! I've come home to the glass of water trick numerous times. Like I'd never know.
Yes I to wonder if a sober drunk is just as bad sometimes. For his mood is far less predictable.
Defiantly feeling lost lately. Thanks for you shares everyone. Helps to know others have been in this boat.
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When it Rains, Look for Rainbows. When it's Dark, Look for Stars-unknown
You are not alone curly. I can relate exactly to what you describe. For me I see it as the unhealthy attachment that occurs as part of the disease. I used to live for my AH. I didn't do it consciously but it was a series of unconscious behaviours that added up to a whole lot of unhealthy behaviour on my part. Instead of focusing on myself and what I needed and wanted my whole focus was on him. We were so enmeshed I couldn't tell you where he ended and I began. It wasn't until things got really bad in our relationship that I felt the need to detach and take care of myself. And my AH responded in a similar fashion as yours which signaled to me how the dynamics in our relationship were skewed. He could be as moody as he wanted to be but not only was it not ok for me to ever have a bad day and need some space. A tiny little change in my behaviour such as reading instead of watching tv with him caused upheaval (now I can see how much fear he has of me changing/leaving/being angry with him). When I started to detach it was a bit of a rocky road for us. I just tried my best to be as honest about it as I could. I would tell him I just felt like doing X tonight. If I was having a tough day I would just say "I'm having a tough day I just need some quiet space". He couldn't really argue with much of it. He would accuse me of being angry or mean or rude but I knew in my heart I wasn't doing that so I just let those accusations lie on the floor. I didn't pick them up and engage in the argument. I went about my own business when I wanted and needed to and I spent better quality time with him when I actually wanted to instead of feeling like I had to all the time. It goes up and down but I find by withdrawing and giving myself space when I have a hard day he does the same more often and doesn't blame me for all his bad feelings, moods etc. It's not perfect but it's a lot better. I had to be able to tolerate the turmoil for a while and have faith that things would get better if I kept the focus on myself. It's been a slow process and that is the magic of the program. It happened slowly I changed slowly but over time it added up to big positive changes for me. I say this often but one of the best things I learned in the program was to ask myself what I need right now and then how can I give it to myself. My part of the disease seems to be I lose focus of what I need and get overwhelmed with other people and what they are going to do. Those two questions centre me. Keep coming back the program really does work if you work it. HUGS!
I also can relate to this topic. Like those above me, any slight change to the "routine," be it where I sat or what I did caused my AH to be sarcastic and accuse me of all sorts of things. Even if a change wasn't in direct result to not wanting to be near him......perhaps it was because I WANTED to read, or talk on the phone or whatever it was.....it was met with anger, accusations, and negative messages. I was also accused of being in a bad mood and trying to ruin our night....because I simply pulled out a book! Insane. I used to JADE ( justify, argue, defend and explain) till I was blue in the face, so I decided to not JADE anymore. I simply stated: "I want to read." That was it. I eventually started giving myself permission (can you imagine that.....a grown adult having to tell myself it was OK to not just sit there and watch him watch TV?) to do other things that interested me. His comments decreased....but of course it always depends on his level of intoxication. Without being sarcastic myself, I just state that this what I feel like doing. No more lengthy justifications.
This is work, no doubt. However, I feel much less resentment when I know I am honoring my own needs instead of just going along to keep the peace.
wow El I can completely relate. I feel the same way "imagine a grown adult having to tell herself it was ok not to just sit and watch him watch TV". This post has really been helpful for me. Thanks for posting Curly and to all of you who responded.
Even once my A got sober I found that I was so resentful and mad at him. It really took a lot of inward reflection to see how sick I was and my part in making myself miserable. I can relate to your post. I thought once he got sober all would be great but it took me over a year to get back to a good place with him. My trust was also shot so I just didn't trust anything that came out of his mouth. It won't get better over night but slowly you do start to change.
I want to be really clear about something .. bad behavior is bad behavior sober or drunk it doesn't rationalize away what is going on.
I am only responsible for my part in the situation. I do not have to be responsible for my qualifiers behavior. It is important to realize that rationalizing, justifying the bad behavior is just as sick as demanding the other person change (I was totally guilty of that one .. LOL). So I am responsible for what I say and do I am not responsible for how the other person responds. This doesn't give me the right to be a jerk in the situation either.
Some people lack the ability to see abuse for what it is and for me in my boundaries I do not do abusive behavior towards me or from me. I remember my first X who was a drug addict hit me (he beat me) my mother and father's response they have not been together for over 40 years I think at this point .. anyway, the response from them both on different time tables was .. he only hit you once what's the big deal. Umm .. no. NOT.OK. My daughter can tell you her bigger concern would be hiding whatever firearms are in the house vs being told it only happened once whatever. LOL! Do not let my son be the aggressor that would be a totally different conversation.
My total point is bottom line bad behavior is bad behavior and if it doesn't change it will get worse, that's statistically proven. So for those in abusive relationships please get help, it is not healthy for bad behavior to be abusive. This is more than an alanon issue.
I just remember my highly abusive XSDAD who also was a drug addict as well as alcoholic (this was a generational issue) demanding my mother sit and watch tv with her this included times I was physically in danger and waiting for a ride because of being broken down in a parking garage, I was 17 years old. Anything that I do that is a detriment to my kids or me is something I need to address specifically when it comes to being in a relationship of any kind friendship or romantically.
Drunk or sober an A is responsible for their part .. while I am powerless to control others .. I certainly am powerful when it comes to my choices.
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Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
This detachment part is going to be a huge struggle for me. At work I receive a text....he's been drinking. My stomach is in knots. I have no choice but to go home. I have kids! Knowing he is more than likely drunk. All I can hope for is he will go to bed before I get there. If not he will sense my annoyance. No matter how hard I try to detach he will sense something. That confused feeling I had when he was "dry" is now that sick feeling feeling knowing I'm back on the merry go round. This time though I'm not in denial (well not completely) I know he is an alcoholic. I just don't know how to live with one. I had been been for 10+ years.....now I just don't know how to do it.
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When it Rains, Look for Rainbows. When it's Dark, Look for Stars-unknown
There is most dfinately more tension within myself this am. Do I go in and talk with him about his behavior. What's the point, I have time after time. Yes we cried, I felt he really heard me. But the disease takes over and he goes again. Do not go in at. He will assume I'm mad because I'm not talking to him. Well she's mad again....use it as an excuse.
If go in like nothing happened, am not putting blinders on......Oh you can be a jack.... but today is a new day it's okay. I need to detach, it's from the disease I need to get away from. Not him. My head hurts from all the thoughts floating around. Trying to make sense of it all. Maybe it will never make sense.
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When it Rains, Look for Rainbows. When it's Dark, Look for Stars-unknown
I can relate to your recent posts. I remember feeling that way and walking on eggshells all the time, its horrible and unhealthy. Whether or not he senses anything isnt really your business. With alcoholism the goal posts change often, do you stay away from him - he might get mad, do I talk to him - he might get drunk. You are powerless!!! you cant cause this and you cant cure or control it so if your holding on to the idea that his drinking is hinging on your response right now then you are still in denial.
It doesnt matter what you do or say if he chooses to drink and find a way to blame your behaviour then that's what he will do. Its the nature of the disease. He wants someone to blame, its easier for him to start again, he wants you to be mad because then it can all begin again because 'you were mad,' again its all your fault!!! in his sick mind. Its all lies that you cant change.
How about taking it one step at a time and doing what makes you comfortable. You are powerless over this disease so your behaviour, attitude, feelings, vibes cannot possibly cause this, ever. Your not that powerful. So, you as a seperate human being not responsible for this other adult human being has many many choices all about you and your life. Whats going to make you happy today? Make a list of things you want to do today and do them. If you come into contact with your A say morning and concentrate on you and your list, make it all about you today. Think about getting off his back and out of his mind. Its a dead end and fuels your own sickness and get to alanon meetings as often as you can, get phone numbers and talk to these people they will sort you in no time and your whole family will benefit.
You were not put on this Earth to live for him. Your sole responsibilty is to you and your children. Full stop. Hes a grown man who has the right to make his own decisions to drink or not too.
I have the one who likes to "joke around, tickle, talk" etc when he is drinking (but is not like this AT ALL sober) And it is annoying trying to even remove myself from the room! Sometimes he follows me jabbering away, or wants a hug or wants to show me something completely odd (you almost want to laugh at stuff like this if it wasn't so serious)
But then He will think I am in a bad mood when I don't respond much or just sort of ignore him, or say that no one cares about him. I don't know how he thinks I can't tell that he has had a drink (he is 7 months at AA). And next day he doesn't mention it at all. Like it never happen. I still have a long way to go in other areas, but one part I did finally get down pretty good is the detaching. It took awhile though. But now its almost second nature. I really do leave the room, go in the bedroom and close the door and just do stuff on my phone. Or if its is earlier in the evening I go drive somewhere and get something to eat and read my book in my truck for awhile. I don't even think he knows when I'm gone! When I come back in he acts like I was gone for 10 mins.
-- Edited by Aerin on Thursday 16th of March 2017 11:07:42 AM
I think for me it is partly because we have melted into one person. Meaning we used to do everything together. Other than for work we were never apart. At one point we even travelled to work together. Neither us have a active social life. He does so volunteer work. We go grocery shopping together. We often go to bed at the same time (on his dry days). So when I say he will notice a change in my behavior, it's because my life has become so routine, my own kids notice when I do something "odd". A couple years ago when I was truly angry all the time, I didn't sit beside on the couch (beside isnt you and your end me on mine...it is itterally can't wedge a piece of paper between us)....he will notice.
But then I'm not supposed to care what he thinks right. His issue. My issue worrying about what he thinks and clearly so much more.
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When it Rains, Look for Rainbows. When it's Dark, Look for Stars-unknown
Curly .. big hugs and that is the dynamic for a very codie relationship .. you have to have outside interests as well as things you do together.
My current boyfriend and I do a lot apart and I'm ok with that because I have my own interests and my own friends. I am concerned he doesn't socialize enough with others and I do not want to be relied upon as his source of entertainment. When we come together and have dinner, I see him at work a lot over weekends .. we have a great time together. We have stuff to talk about outside of the everyday stuff.
My X and his current wife this is what they do .. ALL THE TIME TOGETHER .. to the point the kids have not seen their father alone since he told them that he was getting married he is completely void of any original ideas .. LOL! I laugh because I can't imagine living like that .. at all.
My girlie made that comment over the weekend that she admires the fact that I still put my girlfriends first and I still make sure to have time with them in social situations. I have come to realize I need more than a romantic relationship to feel whole.
Marriage is a weird paradox .. it is a very personal relationship that shouldn't be taken personally .. romantic relationships or any relationships shouldn't define who I am they enhance who I am because all relationships are based upon a give and a take in a healthy world. What others think of me is none of my business was such a foreign concept of my marriage after all of course it's my business it's my marriage .. it took me a long time to stop taking my marriage personally and start thinking more individually in terms of what I wanted to do or go or whatever.
Hugs S :)
__________________
Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism. If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown
"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop
