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I love that alanon is a place where there is no gossip. No going behind each others backs and bitching away about each other for whatever reason. It means we can relax and feel trust here maybe for the first time. Gossip was a big part in my life before but I always had a feeling that it wasn't quite right and if anyone bitched to me about another person then I knew I was also being bitched about so trust is gone and there is a barrier to that relationship. Thanks for reading.x
Hi LC Gossip was my "go to" mode of conversation prior to program. It kept people from knowing what was going on with me, and made me feel better about my life. When I found someone that I could judge and find lacking I felt better.
Alanon's principle of no gossip or criticism helped me to take the focus off others and place it on myself where I could shine a light of understanding and compassion on myself and change the negative tools that I had developed. I announced this position at work one day and I was amazed that others respected the boundary and no longer brought rumors or gossip to me.
Today I find gossip , judgment and criticism a complete waste of time and instead focus on what is lovely, and beautiful in the world-- what a difference !!
I don't gossip and I'm very loud and proud about it. In a small group study a year/so ago, we got into a discussion about what is and what is not gossip. The example - I had been in a small fender-bender. Essentially my care was in need of extensive repair and the air bags broke my thumbs....the biggest pain was I was getting ready to get on the highway to pick up my mother who was flying into a city about 2.5 hours away.
I reached out first to a fellow program person who was retired. My need was to get my mother picked up - and I needed a car, a carpool or ... She was committed and could not be of service. My son did return my call and he, his fiance, their baby and I made the trip, got my mother and all was good.
Before I could get this day complete with the travel and pick-up, the program person had gotten on the phone and shared. Before I got to my next face to face meeting, it was as if I were badly hurt, in need of medical attention, etc.....drama & chaos. I also got a phone call from one of my aunt's who was angry that I had not called her - she had heard that my mother and I were BOTH in a wreck and needed a ride back from the other city.
Any ways, I am a reasonably private person and so I tried to tell the program friend that my life events were not hers to share, tell or discuss. She suggested it was not gossip as it was not behind my back. I disagreed and discovered she could not be a trusted program friend as I respect my own privacy and that of others. I knew the family drama was well beyond my scope.
Another incident - my sons both assumed that in Al-Anon recovery, we sit around discussing our qualifiers. They made it very clear to me that their lives were their story to share/tell if/when they wanted. I sat with my sponsor, my HP and my truth and discovered they were right - 100%. I try hard to only disclose what happened so as to explain what I feel and how I feel and take great care to never bash, put down or judge them - as they are also children of HP and only on loan to me.
I consider gossip any discussion of another's life, doings, etc. I wasn't huge on it before, but did participate at times as it kept me from looking at myself. When I spend time judging, discussing and obsessing over others, I am in an Al-Anon relapse per my sponsor and my program. Because of who I am today and how I am today, those closest to me know I can always be trusted with what they share. I look for the same when I consider who's in my inner circle.
Great Topic!! Great shares....my brain is far less cluttered too now that I just walk away from anyone who is sharing beyond themselves. Love the mental freedom of only owning my stuff!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thanks for your feedback, I agree about the clutter. I also communicated via gossip, I think I felt uncomfortable in silence so I would use info on other peoples lives as a way to fill any silences, I suppose its linked in with self esteem. I never ever thought of it as gossip or that people had a right to privacy or anonymity until Alanon, it can be a bit difficult to get when you have never really lived with it. Its so good to have a cleaner conscience these days. Im trusting myself more and more with other peoples lives, including my own.
Now and again I can get the feeling that people have been talking about me, it could be me being completely paranoid or there may be some truth in it at times and Im glad that I can let it go and know what others think of me is none of my business and who the hell do they think they are to judge me anyway? lol. I just think keep on with the judging because for every one thing you find wrong with me then there are a bit more for you too look at yourself. What a program this is.x
Sometimes I struggle between what I think is maybe gossip and me choosing to live in isolation. I simply don't feel comfortable when people ask me about my AD and how she is "doing" unless they are program people. I have always felt that they are just being snoopy and looking for info to gossip about and I refuse to engage in that. My response has been maybe you should ask her, its her life and her business and not for me to report if they push past the initial response that she is doing ok. Some people are very persistent though and I don't always handle it the best and get quite irritated.
Great topic, gossip is one of the obstacles to success in Al-Anon but it's an illusion to say it doesn't happen in Al-Anon because we are not perfect. I moved to a new area and it's riddled with gossip, shocking when I first saw it. But my recovery is my responsibility and I must choose the proper environment for me to grow. I put lots of miles on my car to get to healthier meetings.
@Serenity, your response to those asking about your daughter is perfect... You are being direct (which is what gossip avoids) and you are practicing boundaries by staying in YOUR business, even though they're in yours and inviting you to go into your daughters. It's not your story to tell and you know it, so you're pointing them in the right direction... Looks like recovery success to me, I am celebrating!!!
I used to think I owed everyone an answer to their questions. NOT SO! There are people out there with no boundaries (and I used to be one of them.) I'm going to keep coming back.
It is a gift. I also remember feeling i had to tell the full story regardless of who the story belonged too. I think your reply is spot on and ive been in that same postion myself with my own son and its noones business.
el-cee - I too used to tell the full story.....others would ask how are you and I had never truly considered a one/two word answer. I expanded on me, my boys, my AH - etc......I never considered sharing about my boys - good and bad - as gossip until they set me straight. I think the way I answered before speaks volumes to my degree of insanity. I honestly did not know how to share about me without sharing about them/others involved. It's a huge tribute to growth that I can actually answer, "How are you?" without bringing others into it. I see it as healthy attachment.
Serenity - I've started to focus on what I know that's good about my sons. Like you, some ask because they are prying. Some ask because I was an over-sharer before recovery. And some ask because they genuinely care. I tend to be brief like you and if they push/pry - will suggest they ask them or I'll say, "He's still got his job and recently got promoted." Or "He's still in school and is a great daddy to his boys."
I tend to prefer to put distance between myself and gossipy folks. I have no patience for attention-seeking, prying, blaming other persons any more - I just prefer to hang with winners. I will always honor my program principles in meetings and help those wanting/willing to be helped but there are too many in this world that want to make everything about them and I've grown beyond it now.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I agree, in fact this is where i see hoe ive grown. When i can do my gratitude list and its not dependant on anyone being sober or drunk, i can see the good in my life and it doesnt revolve around others, in fact its often revolved around nature, isnt it funny, i couldnt see the wood for the trees before.x
el-cee - I too have found a whole new appreciation for nature.....My dog walks me (we walk together) each morning and I talk with God....I love it when our timing aligns with the rising sun - just brings me a new level of peace each morning...
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Interesting topic! This is something I was worried about before my first al anon f2f meeting. I'm relieved there doesn't seem to be any gossiping in the group. I observe how much better I feel when I don't gossip. This has inspired me. I'm applying this to other interactions outside Al Anon. Trying not to participate in gossiping, gently steering conversations in a different direction.
I used to gossip too. I never gave any thought to it being a nasty thing to do. It just seemed the normal way to be.
Fast forward to now, I am just not able to do it. You know how things get so ingrained in you. Also I will get up and move away from others doing it. It is so boring as well as nasty.
I am quite surprised I am like it now, to be honest. I thought I would always enjoy a gossip. It wasn't a trait I consciously asked to be removed, it just went gradually.
I used to gossip too and coming to al anon and changing that behaviour has been a big adjustment for me. I never realized how much I gossiped and was probably known to be a gossip until I tried to stop. Suddenly people would come to me with something or another and I wouldn't be responding in my usual way. Some of my work friends changed or the friendships adjusted but it worked out well for me. What I love is that I don't do it much any more and if I find myself gossiping I try to stop ASAP. I believe I have developed a much better reputation in a short period of time by changing this behaviour alone. I think my motivation for gossiping was trying to persuade people to change things without going to the person directly. Now I am much more comfortable addressing things directly with people even if it is hard or deciding "how important it is" and letting it go. I'm not perfect but I'm really happy about the progress I have made in that regard.
I had someone from work approach me to gossip today in a fairly public venue. It was tricky but I think I managed to navigate it well, move it towards a more positive discussion. I felt better immediately when the conversation was over. That is how I know it was the right thing to do. when I gossiped before I used to feel awful right after and not know what to do about it. My face to face group really models this well for me. I feel like I show more respect for others and I have more respect for myself.
Many thanks for the mention of over-sharing! Putting my hand up to this, blushing a little!
I don't do it now. Just a general short answer is good. Feels comfortable too.
As also mentioned, there is still ongoing issue sometimes when someone I have over shared with in the past expects me to do the same now. When I don't they sometimes push it a bit. I use my toolbox and change the subject.
I really had no boundaries in the past and would tell anyone anything!
I have actually just stopped conversations and suggested, "I am not comfortable with this discussion." If someone asks why, I may share I feel it is gossip or I may just say I am uncomfortable. You would be surprised how often the offender either jumps to immediate justification or explanation without asking my reason. If it's a program person, I have no issue adding to it that I feel it's gossip. It's easy for me - any share about anyone else without them present is not acceptable for me any more. I also don't accept anyone projecting what another person's agenda is - this to me is projecting and crazy-making, pot-stirring and attention-seeking.
My sponsor worked hard with me to stop and hear what was coming out of my mouth. Each time, I would call in crisis and start spewing, "My alcoholic made me so mad or hurt me so much because.........." She would walk me through it and then insist I restate with I statements. I am so angry, hurt, disappointed because ..... This really helped me be accountable for my emotional state, my emotional reactions and to understand I had choices always - to stay/listen, to leave/avoid, to react in kind, to not react at all, to consider the words for a lesson on growth, etc. Most importantly, it empowered me to be who I need to be and to do whatever I need to for my own peace of mind.
My serenity and joy are threatened when I am inconsistent - I try to use the same principles in all my affairs - meetings, home, softball, etc. I felt I was a chameleon for the better part of my life adjusting to each/every setting to fit in and belong. All that changes are the faces, players, locations. It is freeing to be me and authentic in every situation and I treat everyone with the same level of courtesy and respect. In my world, that means saying, Excuse me, turning my back, and walking away if I feel that need.
One of my biggest character defects was patience. I was impatient often/always. I wanted what I wanted when I wanted it. I finished other's sentences, rushed to ASSume I knew what they were thinking, feeling, plotting, scheming. With that and my incessant desire for others to see my way as the best way, I was a train wreck. In working the steps and seeing how these defects, gossip, and others robbed me of myself, I work hard to not return. A gossipy self-serving, attention-seeking person is a trigger for me in many way, and I'll do what I feel makes sense for me to be away from their toxicity. I see today no good use for gossip and love that Al-Anon addresses it straight up in the opening. And again - I am amazed that those who came before me were so intuitive to put together a comprehensive program that works so well when we work it!!
Great thread el-cee and great shares everyone - I again love how much alike we are no matter what/who brought us to recovery!!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
There is something in the way you have described how you work it here that has helped me understand a little more about the nature of this thinking disease i have. Practicing a new way of thinkjng that makes life easier. I like how your sponsor suggested making the statements i statements, almost like training or retraining your thinking to not be full of self pity or victim playing. I think im mostly out of that kjnd of thinking, cant say never but it doesnt seem to be my go to anymore, you know my first thought process in any given situation was about how it was a shame for me because they did .... whatever to me. I felt the whole world did bad things to me. That thinking is not my norm anymore thank God and its through the awareness and knowledge of this type of thinkjng and being entirely ready to let it go and nourish and grow other ideas that counter the victim tginking.
It struck me from what you said about inconsistency and using your program i all your affairs. Its such a committment to yourself, its like living with real life dignity and character, where you can respect and honour yourself. Im still inconsistent, i havent fully committed yet, i commit when it suits me, i use it like a good dress, taken out for special occasions or something i pay lip service too but i look at my days and every day i see the childish attention seeking me. Im working the steps, im not emotionally sober. I think you are and i like how clear and committed you are about it. Like for you it just is. I want that instead of oh yeah im worki g it can you see me working it, right now im not. Lol i know progress not perfection and i am making progress and i can see my lack of progress and i believe thats a good thing, well much better than thinking oh yeah i got this. I dont have it, i have a tiny little bit that makes me want more.x
el-cee - for me, when I got to Al-Anon, not only was I broken, angry sad, hopeless, etc. I was a recovering A. I had 20+ years of recovery by which those who came before me suggested, "To drink is to die" - and that slogan was always present because I was at a place where I wanted to die - not drink. I had so much shame and guilt for not being able to fix my loved ones - very hard to put into words.
I then got confused as the programs aim different elements of this disease. As one who over-analyzed EVERYTHING, I would try to determine which step within what program applied to the right here and now. It was mind-numbing and such a waste of emotion and energy that I did not have. I am fortunate to have found a sponsor who is also a counselor (now retired) who is also a double-winner with more than 40 years in both. She's so filled with grace and honesty and program and has more humility than anyone I've ever seen.
I am sure I wore her out on many occasions - I was a handful++. No matter how many questions, crisis, complaints, concerns, etc. I had - she was consistent with her love and responses. She has never gotten frustrated with me even when I fought everything and everyone. I am blessed to have her and she's been my guiding light in changing who I am and how I act/respond.
As a double-winner, I have to be consistent. Speaking only for myself, any inconsistencies in my actions, thoughts, deeds, etc. affect me - and can have devastating results. I do not believe I can return to my black hole of despair as I will not be able to get back out. I do not view any aspect of the program as optional any more if I truly want peace of mind, joy in my heart and to live.
I will readily admit that with each decade, my maturity and ability to let things go seems to grow. I can't explain it but today, in my 50s, I truly do love myself and do not concern myself with others' opinions of me. I find peace sitting at home reading a book and I find peace going to softball and playing multiple games. I have finally found the ability to live in my own skin calmly and with grace (most of the time).
I believe in my heart that my HP truly wants me at peace and filled with joy. I believe he wants us all to have a happy life, and to manage exceptions when they happen. I had it turned around before - lived in chaos, and managed joy as an exception. I will do all that I can in program, with HP, etc. to keep the current status quo!
(((Hugs))) to all - for me, finding my boundaries and my values, and using this program as best I can to be consistent has been the key...
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
That is amazing (((IAmHere))). Thank you so much. Much of your post resonates with me. And I will keep the thought that my HP wants my natural state to be peace and joy and choas to be the exception and managed thusly. That's a nugget of solid gold wisdom. Much respect and hugs to you for your courage and caring. Let it begin with me....happy Saturday kids!
