Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Aerin · Senior Member

He just threatened me in restaurant

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so sorry. How alarming that he has been violent. Do you have a way home or to a safe place? Can you get a cab? Please don't put yourself in any danger. He sounds hostile and I'm sure it will get worse tonight before it gets better. Remember, there is hope with the tools of Al-Anon. But for this terrible situation, just take good care of yourself.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

I am so very sorry to hear this Please do take care of yourself.

Aerin · Senior Member

:( no one else has a comment

El · ~*Service Worker*~

Good for you for not bringing your daughter into a living situation with someone who is physically violent. The physical stuff is what is so concerning. I would make sure I always have a plan B; a safe place to go if need be. Please don't think you have caused him to lash out. You haven't caused it.

El

Freetime · ~*Service Worker*~

I believe you are right that it is not okay to be treated like this. As others have said, the most important thing right now is to take care of your own safety.

Geraldine · Member

YES! I have a comment! Get out of that relationship. How dare he do that to you. Even though I don't know you I do know that you and your daughter are worth so much more. Why are you with him in the first place (a question I've asked myself in the (only) four months I've been with someone with a drink problem). I'm furious, on your behalf. Why do it to yourself when there are so many good men out there who won't behave this way. Mines only started getting abusive by text but it's unpleasant enough and instantly makes you wonder if it's your fault - it's NOT you. I've had enough after 4 months and you've done 4 years. He won't change. It'll get worse. (sorry if I'm being too blunt on here!)

maryjane · ~*Service Worker*~

Sure, I will comment. This is a progressive disease. If he was 80% nice and 20% horrible a year ago, it will soon be 50% nice and 50% horrible and then 40% nice and 60% horrible.... You are right in keeping your daughter out of this.

And (ask yourself) why does he want you to move in with him? So he can come at you more often? Yell at you more? Or does he need a maid and a cook? Need someone to make him look better? If he hates you so much that he would give you the finger in front of the world, why does he want you?

Be very careful.

Keep your distance and take care of yourself!!!

Aerin · Senior Member

Thanks.. I do appreciate blunt comments. I need that! He says I am the best thing in his life ever and that he doesnt mean those things.. he was just drinking and got out of control ( but does blame me for "making" him angry) My ex husband of 15yrs never did that and he had anger issues (not due to drinking or anything) and honestly I have never had any man yell at me in a public restaurant loud enough for people to look! I keep giving chances because I feel bad for him uggg. like he is trying. but truthfully he has been doing this for 4yrs. He says he is entitled to drink like lots of hardworking men do. he still doesnt see how mean he gets. He has custody of his 10yr old son. I said I cannot stop you from drinking around him but I can never allow my daughter to live with someone who could come home and say unpredictable things to her! she is 14. He feels Im full of it and his reaction is to squeeze my head ir neck while telling me to shut up. Tomorrow he will be fine. I stay out of gulit

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

I too am sorry that you're in this position. I am on the bandwagon of you deserve better. I remember early on people said to me that I teach people how to treat me in my actions, words and deeds. It made me angry, but I found it to be true. As long as I am willing to settle for less than I deserve, and as long as I am willing to accept unacceptable behavior, I am showing others that their actions and words are just fine and dandy.

No man should ever lay his hands on a woman. Every young boy, irregardless of their upbringing has been told this by someone, many someones. What also needs to be taught at a young age is no woman should ever allow a man to put his hands on her. As I got stronger in the program, I created a boundary of One & Done. I bailed each of my boys out of jail one time - and clearly told them....One and Done.

Nothing changes if nothing changes. If you can't separate for you, consider a change for your daughter. Kids see and know more than we ever realize. If I were where you are, I'd whack him with my softball bat....

Take care of you. Just for today, do the best you can for you. You are not alone.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aerin his disease is no justification for violence; aggressive or passive...you need to have the police attend this and not be with him the rest of the day. Alcoholism is a fatal disease (I say this so often) and that doesn't mean only the alcoholic dies from it. I am a former family alcoholism/drug addiction therapist. If any of my clients made the report you just did the client would be in jail and then court. We don't have trophy's for martyrdom...stop yourself now. Your choice, your consequence. ((((hugs))))

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

You write "he still doesnt see how mean he gets," but I suggest that he doesn't care how mean he gets. What is the evidence that he wants to see?

You say that you stay out of guilt. The A's always seem to pass on the feelings they should having to us, don't they? They should be feeling responsible, but instead we feel responsible. They should be feeling guilty, but we feel guilty. They should be feeling pain, but we feel it. It's like they go off and do whatever and we take over all the emotions for them. It must be great to be able to outsource your emotions - I wish I could do it!

I wonder what you are feeling guilty for? Not for you to answer here, just something to think about. If they really would be devastated if we left, wouldn't they take better care not to mistreat us?

Sometimes I thought I was staying for my A, but in reality I was staying because the emotions of leaving (pain, fear, regret, anger) were so great I was afraid to feel them straight on. The chaos of being with him, and the tiny hope that things would change, kept me distracted from the feelings. The trouble was that I wasn't getting rid of the feelings, only avoiding them.

I hope you'll take good care of yourself.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

He does have a right to drink. But you have a right to not put up with it Aerin. You even had a right to dial 911 right there, you had plenty of corroborating witnesses.

I understand why you don't want to expose your 14 yo daughter to him, why do you love and value yourself any less? Violence from him could make you unable to take care of your daughter.

You are a valuable person and don't have to take risks like this. Please rethink even talking to him tomorrow - or ever.

Value and be gentle with yourself.

Kenny

Geraldine · Member

You said that you stay 'out of guilt'. Why?

I bet you feel rotten, sad, upset and exhausted this morning and he feels hungover and apologetic.

I agree with Kenny, don't talk to him today, tomorrow, next week or next year. Improve your life just by not answering his calls. Do it for yourself and your daughter.

This will get worse it won't get better and do consider why you are with him in the first place. You deserve better! Imagine if he takes this violence to the extreme - what happens to your daughter, then? Life is good, it can be so much better for you. Don't feel guilty for someone else's bad behaviour. Don't listen to his excuses. Look to the future - your future with your daughter who you love and care about. Do you see him in your future? How would it be? You've wasted four years - he should feel guilty for doing that to you.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Good for you for getting out of there and for getting alanon. Your safety and your life are the top priorities. Please have a plan b always for this dangerous guy. If he can hurt you this way and you don't live with him imagine the damage he could inflict if you did and your daughter watching all the while. Keep going to meetings, get a sponsor and you will be free soon x

El · ~*Service Worker*~

I like IAH's "One and Done." Perfect.

My statement to anyone I was in a relationship was/is: "if you ever decide to hit me, make it a good one because it will be your last!" Thankfully, no one ever took me up on that. lol. However, it was made clear right from the begining I wouldn't stick around to give one more chance.

I agree that your daughter probably knows more than you realize, and she also needs you as her role model on what not to accept in a relationship.

Please take good care!

El

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

Dive into face to face alanon meetings
That is why people go so we can Get
better, you can not fix the alcoholic only
Yourself. HUGS

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I think domestic violence support is also in order. Yes, alanon is amazing but his violence is totally unacceptable. Alanon will help, but domestic violence counseling is really what I would suggest in addition.

Doingmybest · Senior Member

Hello Aerin,

I sincerely hope this morning finds you in a better place (in so many ways). I just saw your post....I have unfortunately fallen asleep just before seeing it a couple of times. :(

I want you to know first that I will not judge you, but that you must be there for your daughter. She no doubt loves you more than anyone else in her life and has obviously had to deal with alcoholism for at least some of her childhood. My own daughter is now 16, soon to be 17, and is just starting to really accept the changes that I have made since starting back with AlAnon.

I will not criticize you for not stopping the abuse, but I will tell you openly that you are teaching her in every moment. She is learning how to let a man treat her from you.

You really must consider getting the help you deserve, and you do deserve to be happy. Alcoholics have a great power to convince us things were our fault. I used to do the same thing...all the time! Mine escalated to violence three times, once prior to us getting married (about 23 years ago) he grabbed my arm and pushed me down on a couch and I (having been in a really bad past physically abusive marriage) punched him in the face. It so stunned him that he slapped me back and my nose was bloodied. I lost it completely screaming for him to leave, but later took him back, of course, despite refusing to speak to him for a month. The next time was trying to get him to listen to me while he was watching TV and trying to ignore me (perhaps 14 years ago). Of course he was drinking and he shoved me backward again to the couch. This time I told him he would never touch me again or I would have him locked up. We played that game for a while where he withheld physical touch as punishment for me making him push me...you get it I'm sure...he was teaching me yet again that it was all my fault and that I deserved it. Things always progress with abuse and alcoholism. Nothing changes until someone changes,

Somewhere around 5-6 years ago, we were having a very difficult time. I was certain he was cheating, he was denying, and I was a horrible nag. I will never know for certain and it no longer matters, because I had to make a decision to accept this situation or not...and true acceptance took many many years. We began arguing (as usual). I was jealous and he was doing everything in his power to make it worse (I say this in complete honesty and only because he has told me now...in sobriety...that this was the case). I picked up his work cell phone and started to look at it and each of us was trying to get the phone. It progressed pretty quickly with me grabbing and screaming at him and him shoving and pushing me into a wall Trying to get the phone. I am disabled you see, and any injury (like a fall) could result in paralysis. Looking back I can see clearly the stupidity of both of our actions, but despite all of my part, I do not blame myself for his violence.

Everything became clear to me, as if looking on. When he thought he had cleared the phone, he handed it to me to keep me from making him leave. As it started to come back on, he realized it wasn't cleared and he snatched it...this time I was shoved into the dresser. He then started to dress and said he was leaving. I calmly told him he was not going anywhere but to jail, called the police and had him arrested. Unfortunately my family did not support me and I was horribly treated, but I pushed on....until I realized that we both played a part in this disaster. He did have to live somewhere else for a while and, after a month of hell for everyone, I let it go and had the charges dropped. (Please don't judge, this is ESH only)!

Naturally, we did reconcile, as most alcoholic couples do, both of us still very sick in our thinking, but he was no longer interested in fighting and pushing since he came very close to loosing his job, career, family, and everything he had worked for....and I came very close to loosing all respect for myself.

The next four years were the worst of all, with the ups and downs of an ever drinking alcoholic. It was one beer after another, morning to night and stupid behavior compounded itself more everyday. He grew sicker and sicker and drank ever more. Having gotten out of yet another problem (with my help, of course) he acted as if he were "above the law" so he drove wherever, whenever he wanted...always drinking. Approximately 18 months ago, I took my child to practice. He was standing under our garrage, leaning on a lawnmower for supper and rocking unsteadily from drink. I naturally had given up screaming don't drive many months ago because he just said he had to leave because he couldn't stand my bit**ing anymore. The last words I said were "don't call me if you get a DUI". I actually decided on divorce that day and found a lawyer while out. Just a few hours later, however, I received a FaceTime call from a state trooper. Blue lights were everywhere and my alcoholic was in route to the county jail. This trooper was a truly great man that I will forever have respect for!

I won't go in to the rest of the drama, but after literally being forced to bond him out, I finally admitted I was powerless over him, his alcoholism (as we all are), and his decisions. No amount of screaming, crying, begging, demanding, or anything else you could imagine was ever going to bring back the man I so desperately loved. I started to live for me. Strangely, the alcoholic (no longer enabled by me) found his way to AA and to complete sobriety. Though he struggled to detox at home by drinking less and less every day for at least a month, he reached his goal 16 months ago yesterday. He is a very active and very greatful member of AA now, with a sponsor, and now a sponsor himself.

I tell you all of this not to say your situation is like mine exactly and certainly not to tell you what to do (though physical violence never gets better). I tell you because no matter how you are pressured and how you are blamed, his choice to drink is not your fault. His behavior is his behavior and he is responsible. You are not! You did not cause this and you can not control it. You can not cure it! Only he can do what he needs to do to be sober and nothing you do or say will change him. He must find his own way and you must live in freedom of fear of physical violence for you and your child.

It is not too late to teach her how to live free of oppression and violence. Nor is it too late to reach a place of happiness for yourself.

No matter how things ended last night, assuming you are still with us, I truly believe you get the chance to start fresh again. Alone may seem like a terrible thing, but peace is a precious gift that you deserve. You do not deserve to be hit or punched, threatened and scarred, or even embarrassed by the behavior of another. People don't look at others in restaurants when they see this kind of behavior and think "well she got what she deserved". They dont stop to question "I wonder what she did"? They think....WHAT A JERK! And often they think and say to their partners, "she doesn't deserve that...nobody does. I hope she gets out before it is too late". Many times they stop to thank each other for being kind and loving and they wish to help the victim, but are afraid to get involved. The alcoholic in this situation is an obviously violent person and they don't want to be hurt or killed for stepping in...so you are left alone in your sorrow. AlAnon will not make you face this alone. We will take you in and help you.

I hope I have not crossed any lines here. I truly hope my ESH has something in it you can use. If it does, please take what you like and leave the rest. I wish you peace my friend, you do not deserve to be in pain.

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

We don't advise people in Alanon but the one exception is that Alanon suggests that "if you're in a violent situation to get out."

You wrote

"But at time I wasnt learning any AlAnon tools and stayed, feeling because I was arguing at time, I caused him to lash out. sigh sigh sigh I have no other words. This cannot be okay"

So now since Alanon, you know you have choices now.

As awful as his behavior is, in my humble opinion is a waste of yours and your daughter's valuable life to focus on what he's about and whether there is hope of him changing for the better. Falling in love with his "supposed" potential could be a dangerous thing for both of you. He may never be any more than he is right now.

We say, "Keep the focus on yourself" in Alanon. Aerin, sometimes we hear women in the program ask why they keep "attracting" alcoholics, unhealthy partners etc. My feeling is that there are all kinds of unhealthy people out there including ourselves. We work the program and we grow. From what you concluded at the end of your share you're working the very end of the Serenity Prayer - the wisdom to know the difference. Are you questioning this new wisdom, this self knowledge "This cannot be okay."

As far as his alcoholism, his violence and this projection of blame, the 3Cs come to mind. You "Didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure it."

We become what we believe. Working Alanon steps 4 and 5 with a trusted sponsor can be very empowering. You're worth it. (((hugs)))) TT

savingmyself · Veteran Member

There have been so many responses filled with pretty much all I would say and more. I suspect everyone in your life has told you the same things many times, but being a battered woman, you have yet to leave. I will add a few things as a man angry and nervous on your behalf... He doesn't believe you are the best thing that every happened to him. I can all but guarantee it. Perhaps he loves you, but not in any healthy way or way that does anything substantial for you. Additionally, I commend you for not moving your daughter into his home, but you should know she sees that you stay with him after he is violent and abusive. She sees and she learns that it's acceptable. I know it doesn't seem simple from the inside, but it is. Violence is never acceptable and won't stop. Be safe and best wishes.

PatG1025 · Veteran Member

The one, among many things, I've learned in Al-Anon is to take care of myself and not let others abuse me. I don't project how a person will act in the future, but in the present someone shows me violence, abuse, demeaning words, belittling behavior, etc. then I can decide to leave that and take care of me and my child.

I've learned that I'm a valuable person, I'm entitled to be treated with love and respect, and I will not settle for anything less.

I've learned to love myself.

I've learned to respect myself.

I've learned that I have a right to be treated with love and respect, and this is a right that all humans have. I cannot mistreat someone, and I am learning not to mistreat me, and definitely not allowing anyone to mistreat me either.

Al-Anon doesn't advise but it has a lot of good sayings and good comments about taking care of ourselves. Life is precious; I am precious, your child is precious.

When we learn to take care of ourselves and treat ourselves with love and compassion we learn to expect that from others who are close to us. If someone doesn't treat us well, I can release them with love. I don't have to accept their behavior to me if it is disrespectful. I can accept that they are violent or angry, but I don't have to have it near me.

Take care of yourself and your daughter. You are both precious and deserve the best.

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

Great share i have traveled that same road and it will not get better
Without both parties really working hard on themselves. HUGS

LinSC · Senior Member

Hello Aerin, Alanon is certainly the way to go now that you have found yourself in this situation, find meetings asap, and literature to help you through this. What does it mean when you say you stay because of "guilt" ? Sincerely Linsc

Aerin · Senior Member

I just wrote a long reply and it didnt post.. so if for some reason it pops up later I apologize. I just want to make it clear that my ex-husband and I share our daughter 50-50. I do not see my boyfriend when I have my daughter. she has no idea of his drinking and violent tendencies. we have done some family outings over the years with his son and some friends but she has never seen him the way I and his son have seen him. my boyfriend is very upset that I will not live with him and I have told him many times that I cannot put my daughter in a house with an alcoholic even if they're just binge drinking one or two days now. ( instead of the five days he used to do when I first met him) I guess the reason I feel guilty is because I keep thinking he is trying to stop, he is under stress with money lately, he says he is praying for guidance, that he is not a bad person and he apologizes and says he's sorry and that he knows he's wrong but he's not perfect. I did stay at his house last night I slept on the couch with the plans of leaving in the morning. around 7 AM he comes up to the couch (he had passed out in his bedroom right when we got home) and I thought oh here comes the apology but instead he actually asked if I wanted to have sex! WTH? I told him to leave me alone which he did and then I got up and left. I know I have questioned that this cannot be a normal way to live and someone did point that out and said that I am noticing this is not what a real relationship is about. despite the good side of him I really don't think I deserve to be humiliated in public. it honestly never crossed my mind that I could be killed? I always thought no way that'll never happen to me I could fight the person off. how could I be blind to that? Im 45 yrs old!

tiredtonite · Veteran Member

Just wanted to give you some extra support with a big hug ((((((((((Aerin))))))))))) TT

savingmyself · Veteran Member

Aerin, It is so hard to read your posts bc of the fear I have for your safety. I will reiterate that I believe your 14 year old knows. You had broken ribs... Even if she didn't, your posts are those of an all too common battered woman. I agree with everyone that Al Anon would be very helpful to you, but first you need a domestic abuse counselor and to leave a violent situation. No question. I am fairly new to Al Anon, but I believe violent situations are the time that a program allows us to offer advice. I am strongly urging you to get the help you need. There is a saying in AA, "What happens when a bike thief gets sober? He becomes a sober bike thief" (paraphrasing). Look at what your boyfriend showed you when he came to you for sex, with no apology. It's not an easy truth to swallow, but look hard. I wish you safety, courage, and peace.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

(((Aerin))) - you are not blind or dumb. It's a part of our disease to believe them when they say they will get sober and to accept unacceptable behavior. That which we 'see' as abnormal when we enter recovery appeared normal or at least normal for us as a byproduct of the disease and the way it affects our thinking/views. So - don't beat yourself up - just realize that you are also affected by the disease, and this is some of the ways it affects those of us who live with or love an A.

Also, he's not evil, bad, mean or anything but SICK. Abuse is not always a part of the disease, but it's common enough that we hear it, see it and certainly advise to keep one safe by any means possible and necessary. I also realize that you are a great momma and are working hard to protect your daughter. I just have a feeling that perhaps she hears more than you think and the young son may talk to her as a resource as he's living with the disease.

I've heard story after story about how we think we're not affected or our children are not seeing/knowing, etc. to find out - yes...they knew. Remember that there is ACoA - that's for all the Adult Children of Alcoholics who grew up with the disease present. Not all of them saw their A falling down drunk, etc. - most were left with examples of how it is - the walking on eggshells, the uncertainty of what's normal, what to expect, etc. While being within the disease, it's so hard to see how deeply and widely it affects a family. It's in recovery that I have peeled back more and more of the disease and it's damage/affects.

As I said, he's sick. To him, 'everybody' drinks and get's drunk and happy. You are correct that he doesn't see how he is under the influence nor would he believe you if you told him. If you video'd him and showed him, he'd say that's just one time. The denial of the drink/drinking is huge - bigger than we can understand or even try to explain to another. I can tell you it took me almost 10 years in the AA program to realize that normal people do not drink like I did - I truly thought all people drank to get drunk and why would you only have one/two? The normal drinking to me was a waste of energy/time/money!!

So - that's why we suggest in Al-Anon to keep the focus on us. The steps, slogans, serenity prayer and daily readers help us to see that we only have control over us. We can never change, cure or cause another to be sick/well. We can hope for them and we can pray for them and we can detach so they can find their own journey, but we can't fix them. There is no guilt in staying or leaving - trust the process, stay safe and work on you - the path which you should be on will become clear!!

(((Hugs)))

LinSC · Senior Member

Be careful Aerin, alcoholics will make you feel sorry for them because they have bills or theyre trying to do their best etc, etc, 8 out of 10 times its a manipulative ploy so you will feel sorry for them and have guilt feelings so you wont leave or ask them to leave, its all part of the disease. Take care of yourself, you are on the right track, keep up the meetings. Remember actions speak louder than words.... Talk is cheap. linsc

Doingmybest · Senior Member

Please keep coming back and keep reading the posts of others. Each will help you see clearer and every day will help your eyes open just a little more.

I am certain you are a very good mother and that you are trying to protect your daughter in every way. I am also certain that this manipulation will not end until you end it, because that is what alcoholics do. They promise and beg, apologize and even cry...but just as soon as you give in, the sound of a bottle/can opening can be heard as loud as a bomb in your head.

Please, please, please be careful. I do honestly believe you are in real danger and your daughter needs her mother alive and happy. She does not need to grow up alone, wondering and thinking she could have done something to prevent loosing you. Children almost always find a way to blame themselves for actions of others. We AlAnon members are often like that in the beginning. We blame ourselves because we didn't (fill in the blank with any word you want) or because we (fill in any action word here) and that MADE the alcoholic react as he did. If we had just (fill in the blank), then everything would have been ok. We do this over and over until we feel at fault for everything and we feel responsible for the happiness of everyone but ourselves. It is a sad pattern, but one we CAN learn to overcome! We are not responsible for the behavior of another person. Taking the blame and accepting responsibility for another's actions actually demeans the other person and keeps them from facing consequences. It says to the alcoholic that we accept their lies and they should not feel bad for what they have done because they are not good enough/smart enough/man enough/woman enough/ or kind enough to be held responsible. It prevents the alcoholic from learning what happens when they "break the rules".

Aerin · Senior Member

I am crying you guys :'( Crying because all of you make sense. Truly I didnt see it. I was going to try and learn to live with it, but now I see that I cannot. I cannot wait any longer for him to see what he is doing to me and his son. He sent a text tonight saying "He is sorry the night was ruined and turned bad. But that I forget that I fuel the fire" This is coming from a person that I stood by for 4yrs thinking I could help somehow by yelling screaming explaining begging and then praising him when he didnt drink, saying he was doing better. (then soon as I said that he would celebrate with beers) I dont see this cycle ending. My mom grew up with horrible alcoholic parents, they died young (42 and 56 from liver failure). My mom then also started to drink. But i seriously had no idea as a kid because she was super quiet drinker. She stopped when I was about 14 and hasnt had a drink since. My brother and I are not drinkers at all. I cannot drink anything without getting sick so I dont drink (i was always the designated driver!) my dad had anger issues (never hit anyone though), my ex husband has anger issues (never hit me though) and now look, I pick someone with anger AND drinking issues. I know I must go. I am so sad to do it, but this is too toxic. I have never been so constantly angry and anxiety ridden with anyone in my life. I know he thinks the situation wasnt as bad as it was. I dont think his recall is normal. But this cannot be my problem anymore. This is easy to type but will be hard to tell him. Anyway, I am still going to stay on this board to learn about myself. And I am sorry for typing so much. Its just that no one in my family or even my few friends know about this. I have never told anyone. And you all can relate so thanks for listening xoxo

LinSC · Senior Member

BE STRONG Aerin, just like the lion in your avatar.... linsc

Doingmybest · Senior Member

I'm so happy your eyes are focusing. Alcoholism is the "elephant in the room"... Meaning...when we are too close, we can't see anything but gray. This is why you could not see for yourself...because you are too close to the situation. Others can see because we are strangers (and because almost all of us have lived some sort of abuse...even if only verbal or emotional). You have been in the dark and the light will shine if you let it.

Just remember another of the AlAnon slogans: JADE. Don't justify, argue, defend, or explain/excuse (forgive me because I can't remember which one it is right now and they both fit...it's 4:00 am here...lol).

Also remember that "No" is a complete sentence. I pray you will continue to be a part of our community and will keep coming back. Local meetings really do help and can help take some of the sting out of this process for you. You may even find out that you make a few really good friends in the process. :)

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

((((((Aerin))))))

The behaviour that you describe is abuse and it is dangerous, both physically and to our self esteem. Aerin, you are a wonderful person - it shows in your posts here at MIP.

Abuse is insidious. It crept up on me in my life. I came to feel less than, not important, that I must have done something to deserve the bad treatment that the man I loved was dishing out in my direction. But here's the thing for me - it was only in my direction - he had the restraint not to abuse others, so why should I be accepting less than them? My word, I even took it as a compliment for a while - he must love me, because he wouldn't treat anyone else that badly!!! How crazy was that?!!!!

I do matter. And life does not have to be this cruel. It is not loving of me to let someone else put my life and well-being in danger just so that they can feel bigger and better about themselves (like that would work??!!! Really! What was I thinking?!!!).

I deserve better and so do you my friend. Abuse brings shame on everyone concerned but we don't have to accept the abuse and we don't have to accept the shame it inspires either. We didn't know what we didn't know. Then we start to see and we learn to do things differently. That is a joy in my life.

I love that lion in your avatar and I believe you chose him for a reason!

As Doingmybest says, there but for the Grace of God, go I. So I can't help but want to support you in anything you do. I know that you will take the best care of yourself and your daughter and I suspect that you will come to realise that you do, in fact, make the world a better and brighter place.

(((((Aerin))))) I'm so pleased that you shared your experience here with us. I have been away for a few days so only saw your post this morning. My thoughts are with you today.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aerin this isn't just His disease. It is your disease...the disease...you need to know your part is your disease. This could not be happening without your permission and you need to know what and where that is. It is progressing because Alcoholism is a progressing illness if not fully arrested by total abstinence and that doesn't even mean just the drinking cause we have a disease of the mind...the body...the spirit and the emotions. You didn't think your way into this and you will not think your way out...you need to change your thinking, feelings, your intentions and behaviors or else get more of the same. There is hope...there always is hope and that is why we at your MIP family are here with you. We found the way out in the Al-Anon Family Groups. Keep coming back (((((hugs))))) smile

Aerin · Senior Member

Jerry, that is where I am lost.. I don't know how I cannot put into action what you say. I am almost as bad as an alcoholic..denial that its not that bad. That I should love someone faults and all. In my mind I keep thinking that I am part of blame for his anger by forgetting to use my AlAnon tools when he is drinking. He says I expect a perfect person and He wants credit for cutting back from every day binges (beer is his only drink) and that now that its down to 2 days, I should realize he is making progress. yes, thats better than it use to be but still....(you all know the bs) I will bring up some small thing from the past that still makes me mad, and yet the physical issues that appear now n then, i actually forgive and forget.?! How do I do that? What is wrong with MY brain? He texted today "not sure if you care, but I went to church today". I agree with everyone that nothing will change without me changing and trying to figure out WHY I dont see what everyone else sees. I almost want to defend him even though I started this whole topic! But I feel bad for him because he has this disease and is struggling. (I feel like freaking Khloe Kardashian who keeps helping Lamar) D*mn it. I know no one can give advice and I am sure a lot of you are shaking your heads that I am even typing this. Although I think I am safe in saying how I feel to people who can understand the confusion I have.

a4l · ~*Service Worker*~

I really like what pat g said. I've found it to be true. And others too, like milkwood on the effects of violence to personage. In alanon I'm learning to love me. Intimate partner violence erodes self worth. But its never too late to reclaim it, however you can with what you have. A lovely daughter, your own living space, a supportive community. Keep coming back.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

I understand Aerin, I'm nodding in recognition of what you are describing!

For me I was having a quiet afternoon, sitting in the sunshine doing some needlework and thinking about me rather than my husband. During that time I was remembering myself as a young carefree girl, what my dreams were and what it was that I enjoyed about my life at that time. I also gave some thought as to why I felt it was my responsibility to make other peoples lives better for them. I came to the conclusion that I do like to help people but I could see that I sometimes took that too far for my own well-being. I came to the conclusion that I would protect the young girl in me and that my route to doing that was to take care of my self-respect and to embrace the things in life that made me feel good. I also decided to reject things that made me feel 'less than'. Those things were poison to me. It was a change in me - I didn't look to others to affirm me. I started to affirm myself. I made a list of things that I was proud of; I wrote down positive comments that I had heard people say about me. And I read that list every day for a week. I rested and I found things to bring play back into my life. And if someone wanted to have a hissy fit, I didn't need to 'make it all right'. I didn't complain, I just walked away from that type of behaviour. If I needed to say anything it was usually just 'I'm sorry if you are having a bad time.' Once or twice I added 'you know I can't help you with this.' I love the Alanon reminder to keep the focus on me, that has been a really powerful tool for me in recent years.

Sending (((((((Hugs)))))))). Be gentle with yourself.

LinSC · Senior Member

Pity, feeling sorry and enabling never got him or me anywhere, it just prolonged the misery, I had to let go and let him hit bottom. i had to do the opposite thing I learned as a woman, the coddling, holding his hand. I had to let him stand up on his own two feet and face life. Linsc

Doingmybest · Senior Member

Mine only ever drank beer too! But, he was drinking 30 + a day by the end...and that was for a long, long time.

There is s much information flooding in at you at one time. Please just breathe, just for a few minutes, or an hour if that is all you can do right now. His "I when to church, if you care" is alcoholic manipulation. He went to church to make you feel bad. Otherwise, why tell you if he went for himself? If he wanted to express his happiness at going, he would have done so in a very different tone. Please try to let some of the "smoke settle" and just breath for a little while until it clears and you can see better.

There is no need to defend him or to defend your actions. AlAnon is not about judgment. We understand because we have all defended, lied for, covered up for, made excuses for, or accepted responsibility for behaviors that were not our responsibility. Some are just a little further along the path than others and I promise, face to face meetings will help (when you are ready). Don't be surprised if you only sit in the back and cry. I did for a long, long time and I still "hated it" because I was not able to let go of the thought that I could "help" him. I purely hated the smiling, chatting women. How could they chat and laugh when life was so horrible?

It actually took four long years for me to get down from my high horse and drag myself back "for real", but the things said during the 6-7 meetings from that first attempt stayed in the back of my mind and slowly grew. I think one of the ladies I disliked most (because she was so darned happy) is the same one I asked to sponsor me. It's like that because I was honestly (and secretly...even to myself) jealous because she was happy and I was living in Hell! Just taking the time to open my eyes and stop judging her made me see that she is the person I need...and honestly someone I LIKE. I think she will be good for me as a sponsor and hopefully a future friend. I could certainly use a positive, happy friend because I haven't had that in as long as I can remember. Perhaps because I was so negative, condescending, and caught up in myself and MY addiction to my alcoholic.

Please keep posting and feel free to start a new thread, as many as you need, with your questions or concerns. We will not forsake you and you are not alone. You are simply a person who has been "damaged' by the horrible disease of alcoholism. Fortunately, any damage inflicted upon you is completely repairable and you have the power to repair them by simply reaching out you hand and taking the first step.

Please read the first step and really, really think about it. I honestly believe it may help.

Peace to you and please keep posting.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene