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I think I must have a sign that says 'if you are alcoholic, I'm your girl!!!' Or maybe a t-shirt that reads, 'Kiss Me- I'm a Codependent!'
I say this with a sense of humor but the reality is - why do I continue attracting these sorts in to my life? I have been spending some time with a guy friend that I dated briefly a few years back. He is the sweetest guy, gentle, compassionate. His ex wife is an alcoholic/drug addict. He is raising his two teen daughters. He is not Al-Anon. I do not know if he is an A or not. But I know this... every 'date' we have had so far (I'd say 6 or so), has been in a bar. He drinks Canadian Club whiskey straight on the rocks. I've seen him drink 5-6 of these in an evening, in a tumbler glass...which seems at least 2-3 'shots'. Well last night, he was settling his tab and couldn't read something so he asked me and I happened to see... 12. He had TWELVE drinks - I think he got there around 7, I met him around 8:30. We left there at 12:30. He was buying drinks for people but I know for a fact he was the only one drinking straight whiskey. His sister is my age, and we get along really well. But she sits and drinks with him too. And then they all drive home. After many, many drinks. I always have my car so at least I don't have to be 'along for the ride'.
He never 'acts' drunk. It is very strange. He is always 'the same'- easy going, mellow, quiet, cute. I adore this guy - I don't know, it's more like a friendship than a romantic thing. He doesn't seem to have the 'typical' A traits or accompanying personality disorders. But of course, I only 'know' him as he is when he is drinking. I clearly see that I can not have a committed relationship with him, so at least I have that awareness NOW, and not 3 months from now when I'm 'in love' with him. He has a successful career and works very hard - both at work and at home and raising his girls. He is very fit, he goes to the gym almost daily. He told me his doctor said his potassium is extremely low so he has to take this giant potassium pill every day. I went online to read about this and the only 'cause' of this that would fit is... you guessed it... excessive alcohol intake.
This is not going to translate into anything long term with my friend. In fact, I did also have my first 'online' date with someone completely new since my relationship. And we only had one drink over an hour and 1/2 of good conversation. It was very 'different' (in a positive way) than the usual 'type' I end up meeting. So I AM encouraged that I seem to be getting closer to the type of men I would like to meet and get to know.
I would love to stop attracting big drinkers into my life. I enjoy drinking socially and limit my intake because of my health needs. I would like to go on active dates with people. To the theater, a movie, a nice restaurant, a bike ride or hike. Where ARE THESE PEOPLE?
Thanks for 'listening'. I'm still a work in progress
Cyndi
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"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
I used to wonder why I ran across so many alcoholics, and then I read the statistics for alcoholics. I just read them again - 9.2% of men in the U.S. have "Alcohol Use Disorder" (=alcoholism) according to the National Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism. And 24.7% of US adults report binge drinking in the last month. (http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics). Since I'd think it very wise to steer clear of a potential partner who binge-drinks, that's 1 in 4 men!
So the good news is, it's not us - they're out there all over the place. And since I'd wager that alcoholics' relationships aren't as stable as non-alcoholics, I'd guess that a greater percentage of them are single and available than emotionally healthy men. No wonder we stumble over an alcoholic everywhere we turn.
The other good news is that there are a lot of women alcoholics out there too (sadly), so when the sober men find the sober women, they're equally delighted!
My guess is that also, someone you hang out with in a bar is going to have a higher-than-average chance of being an alcoholic.
You did the thing that the healthiest people do - you said "No thanks" to the experience of being involved with another alcoholic. It looks like life is going to give us lots of chances to say "No thanks" to alcoholics. So getting that skill to be automatic is a great and useful accomplishment.
I've heard that the places to find lots of available men are hiking and outdoor clubs and political campaigns. Don't know if that's true, but you could check it out for us!
Aloha Cyndi and good to hear you continue to post and ask...I suggest you reread your post as if you were some one else and see what you come up with in feelings and thoughts. I've done that practice myself and learned much about my own attitude regarding the chemical and the use and the users. If I continued to do the things I was doing I would continue getting the things I was getting. I have had more alcoholic/addict relationships than I care to count even when I learned that "the only problem was me and my only solution was God". How did I cause myself so much problems that only God could straighten me out...God and Al-Anon.
Alcoholism is a compulsion of the mind with an allergy of the body and that doesn't go for "them" only. One description of our part is that we are "Co-"dependent so I am as much a part of the problem ("the" no his or hers only ..."ours"). I "enable" the condition. Once it is planted...I water and fertilize it.
Yes there is a sign on our forehead as much as there is one on theirs. I have played such a sad part in this disease in my life and I am so grateful for the programs of AA and Al-Anon and Coda and others. I have a chance. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
I found that needed to be honestabout who I was and what i wanted it cleared the way. I would advise them that t I did not drink and hated bars and the drama that goes along with it. The men who wanted a "drinking partner: did not return those that wanted to date by going dancing or the movies, the opera , or the ballet returned. It was a gift i gave to myself I gave up alcohol and it was so worth it.
In my heart of hearts I know that I need to stop going to bars. Maybe I need to stop drinking altogether . I don't think less than 4-5 drinks a week is a problem ... but to stop or change my social life - well... between women friends and men, everyone drinks .... a LOT. I can limit my own boundaries right now, because of my heart 'stuff', and therefore I drink very little (maybe two drinks in one evening and only on the weekends. But to not go out and not drink at all would mean .... completely changing my friends and social life.
Things to think about for sure. Maybe it is gradual shift to new friends and social activities. Funny - Even though I am a personal trainer, who works out regularly (modified now because heart thing) , love to run races (5K's etc) - I do not have any 'real' life friends who enjoy these things. All of my 'running' and fitness friends are through Facebook groups. Virtual friends. I need to find the 'courage' to join a local 'live' running group. I am 'shy' at first and also, not confident in my ability enough to just show up for a group run locally ....
I need to do a Step 4 on this.
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"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
This is a great awareness Cyndi It could be gradual change. Finding like minded friends would be a gift you give yourself. My family still drink like there is no tomorrow so I limit my visits. Good Luck
Sometimes changing your social life and meeting new friends is good. I, like Betty, reached the point of developing strict boundaries with dating and drinking. Anyone who drank more than 2 drinks in one night...buhbye. And that can only happen 1 or 2 x a week. Period. No exceptions. Pretty easy to rule out alcoholics that way.
I am the daughter of an alcoholic and have married 2 alcoholics. I think I have a sign on my forehead too. If the time ever comes for me to date or marry again, I have hopefully learned my lesson and will not date or marry anybody who drinks at all.
Way to go on the awareness, and pulling yourself back from that. That's a great step in the right direction.
Separating yourself from your social circle might be hard to do. I know that once my AH decided to stop drinking, almost two months ago, we stopped going to our "regular" places, where we would socialize, eat, and drink. We have stayed home a lot, which hasn't been a bad thing. We have also been immersed into the baseball season, which takes up a lot of his time, in the evenings.
I miss a lot of our friends that we would see out and about. I'm sure we will come to a point when we can see them again, without drinking being involved. Until then, we are keeping busy with other things.
I hope you are able to continue with your search, and stay true to yourself. You're doing great.
Thank you everyone. I truly value all the ESH in this group.
I have decided that even though my 'friend' was a fun 're-bound' thing for this past couple of weeks, I need to move on from this situation and focus 'forward' and away from 'doing the same thing'. Reflecting back over my evening, there was some conversation and behavior that made me uncomfortable, and I suspect this would only be the beginning. I was hoping we could just be casual friends but even that seems a waste of time at this point and counterproductive to some of the changes I am trying to make for myself.
Onward and upward as they say
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"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
I know that for me, being a people-pleasing, compliant doormat was like wearing a sign on my forehead that attracted personality disordered control freaks who emotionally abused me. Healthy people were repelled by my lack of boundaries and an identity of my own (understanding my part). In fact, it was one year ago yesterday that I was finally able to say for the first time (and really mean it) that I deserve better.
I general never recommend books to people, or feel weird recommending ones that are not Alanon related here. BUT that being said I came across a book called "women who love too much." It spoke to women (or men) who choose partners with addictions over and over subconsciously and I must say I found it pretty dead on. If you ever want an interesting read.
As far as alcohol, I can't say I have healthy ideas of how much drinking is ok. I pretty much panicked when my non alcoholic fiance had 4 beers in one month! But Don't rule out stopping or decreasing drinking due to your social standing. You can always nurse a rum and coke with out the rum. No one bothers you if you have a soda in your hand instead. You can always just not drink. Even when around your friends.
Cyndi - great post and great thread.....being around 12 Step recovery for a long, long while, the best of intentions are just that - intentions. Countless program friends from both sides have set up boundaries, and walked into relationships knowing what they do NOT want. Knowing what they want is harder to define, so the 'not want' helps define what is workable.
One challenge I've seen over and over and over again is those of us with addictive tendencies (both sides of the table) are always in a hurry. We want answers now, we want a partner now and we want serenity now. Most of us lack patience to hold out to 'see' 'what unfolds. I have been this way my whole life and it's only in Al-Anon that I've truly found an ability to listen to my inner voice....before, I honestly thought it was my crazy brain telling me things, and now - if my gut says....wait a minute - my mind and heart know that it's OK to stop, look and listen (told this in kindergarten but 48 years later it sticks).
I have a couple friends and many family members who most likely qualify for AA. I do not share with folks beyond 'need to know' that I am in recovery. The only time I felt the want to do so, it's been to excuse myself from bad behavior so my friends know I don't drink but they don't know why. If I am asked, my typical response is I don't like the way it makes me feel - which is very true. Over the years, I've been very clear to all about calling/texting/stopping by drunk. I don't mind being around people who are drinking - I distance myself from drunk people. If my radar gut goes off, I step away and process with my program and sponsor.
I am fortunate to have stayed in my marriage and avoided the dating scene. I believe it would be very challenging and frightening. I was single for 8-9 years before I got married, and truly decided to just have fun and not worry about the outcome. I met and married someone in AA with a good program who was awesome and sober 6+ years. I thought I did everything 'right' and ... he relapsed 3+ years into our marriage and never returned to recovery. So - with more knowledge than most, facts, statistics, and carefully selecting my mate, it still went different than planned.
I know others who've selected a mate who doesn't drink. But after a period of time, the reality is they have a pill addiction and/or a porn addiction or an injury leads to pain medication or ... - my point is we never know more about another than what they are willing to share. Alcoholics are not bad people, they are sick people. This for me has been why I am so grateful for Al-Anon - my happiness and joy and peace are my responsibility and I do know now that no matter what life throws my way, God will lead me out of it if I get out of the way!!
Your journey and growth just since you've been here is inspiring! I fully understand what you are saying which is why I was single for a long while. It took me a long time to 'see' that I tend to attract needy people beyond mates - I do it in friends too.....that is my personal addiction to being 'needed' and I've had to look deeply at me to see what I 'show' that attracts 'them'. Keep working your program - your awareness at what you don't want/can't live with is your program protecting you - I believe.
I love when Jerry says when I got here, I didn't know anything and what I thought I knew I didn't know.....that is 'me' to a T. I thought I knew what was right/wrong and what I wanted/needed, etc. and what I've come to learn is I know nothing and when I wake up each day and work to be the best version of me, I am pleasantly surprised at what my HP puts in my path.
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I second the book women who love too much and the daily reader that goes along. I also recommend working the alanon program, going to meetings, getting a sponsor and working the steps. A lot of people either grew up in codependent homes or around alcoholism so finding someone who doesn't drink isn't easy.When I met my current husband we met in a bar, his family drinks and he drank. I went along for the ride and sometimes I drank a bit too. I joined the program almost six years ago, because my life was insane. We fought all the time. I quit drinking right after joining the program and he quit drinking a year later. We had to find different playgrounds and playmates. We don't have a lot of friends that we go out with. I have a program though, so I have friends in the program. The main thing was getting the focus back on me. I joined a gym, learned all about weight lifting and got into shape. I got another part time job. He was no longer the sole focus of my life, but we still spend time together and our life is good now, not perfect, but definitely 90 percent better. After all this time we occasionally see our drinking friends and family. We go early to events and leave when people start getting drunk. I use my program to stay sane. You sound like you are very intelligent,you know that this can't become serious with him drinking like he is. If he cares for himself he will get sober and get a program. I love this program it gives us choices ;) blessings ;)
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I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive
I enjoy this friend's company so much, but I also believe I need to keep my heart open to new opportunities and friends as well. We spent time together this past weekend and I drank more than I am accustomed to. I am beating up on myself because I CHOSE to do this, and I have health considerations that should be top priority for me. I feel like I am distracting myself from something, I'm not sure what. This kind of reminds me of how my life went after my separation/divorce 6 years ago. I went out a lot, dated a lot, drank more than I normally do. I am slipping into that pattern again, but awareness is good. I broke up with my boyfriend recently because of his 'unhealthy' lifestyle choices, and now look at me - spending time with people who drink too much. Because I have no other 'options' right now, and being 'alone' is not so appealing to me. My physical fitness passion is very challenging to handle right now, post heart attack - progress is good, but slow- I now realize how much my body craved and needed that exercise 'fix'. Now I am seeking that 'fix' in other ways I believe. Ironically, being 'alone' right now is probably exactly what I need.
I will keep plugging away at this, one day at a time. I am always grateful for awareness.
Hugs,
Cyndi
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"There will be an answer. Let it be." ~ The Beatles
Awww Cyndi, I'm sorry you are finding yourself back in the same crappy situation. I know a lot of people when first hanging out or getting to know each other may have a drink over dinner. But his excess is a warning sign to me. Nope, I wouldn't go there. If he does that NOW, I can only imagine down the road. I think you have the tools to get out before you get in over your head. I have never been a drinker, honestly I went 20yrs without a drink. Then when I got divorced I did kinda make the rounds at bars with some friends drinking. After about 6 months any drink I had made me sick (even wine) so I no longer drink anything again. YUCK So although I am still with my current bf of 4 yrs and he is attempting to be sober (he is doing better, but it will be a long road for sure) , if I was single and dating, the guy better be limiting his drinks to like a beer with dinner or maybe with a friend and that's it. And if they didn't drink at all, that would be 1,000x even better. Lots of guys into fitness don't drink.
I swear, I have the same problem attracting-in alcoholics. However, I know that my attraction point is steadily getting better because the men I've been meeting lately at speed-dating events have been sober AA members. (and speed-dating events are always in bars for some reason :-/ )
I don't drink because I'm histamine intolerant and alcohol could literally kill me (I have an epi-pen for it). In my experience, meeting non-drinkers or conservative drinkers has been pretty easy. We usually find each other through online websites or in groups of friends. Once someone hears that I don't drink, word gets around and I end up meeting someone else who is a teetotaler like me. We exist! We're out here. BUT, non-to-low-drinkers usually only come out of their hiding spots if you're brave enough to proclaim "I don't drink!" It's not a very popular stance to be a teetotaler -- especially since drinkers can get intimidated by non-drinkers to the point where they make fun of you or pressure you to drink -- so that's why I think people would prefer to hide it.
Anyways, I wish us both luck that we'll meet good men and continue to work on ourselves and our codependency! :)
