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Post Info TOPIC: Would like some ESH


Senior Member

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Posts: 154
Date:
Would like some ESH


My AH and I moved 800 miles away from our parents, siblings, etc  almost 3 years ago.  It has been very difficult for a number of reasons, but first and foremost, due to his active A behavior. Two years ago this week, I threw together an emergency intervention, with new neighbors and friends who had witnessed his behavior (and knew he had a drinking problem before I did) and were concerned about keeping the children safe. I have learned a lot about interventions, and wish I had had more time to organize it, and involve a professional (though I did talk to one beforehand). But, I was on the verge of leaving, and knew he would not listen to anything I said to him alone... that only the input from these other people would maybe cause him to listen.

Anyhow, that was 2 years ago, and I never imagined we would be where we are now. He is still struggling, just going to AA halfheartedly, in cycles that you can imagine. I moved out last July as I could not take the lying, sneaking, and mean behavior. It still continues, with some progress, some backsliding, etc.

Here is my question. Well, its coming after some background. I have tried hard to let his recovery be his. BUT - I feel like he is slipping through the cracks. I worry that there is something else going on, and perhaps finding it out could help him. Like I said, we have no family here. No friends who knew him before we moved here. Our counselor "fired" him (his words) a month or two ago, because she said she was in over her head and recommended he see someone specializing in substance abuse. He has spoken with someone on the phone, but that is all. He had seen a psychiatrist, at former counselor's recommendation. He did not tell the psych. that he has an alcohol problem. He drank one night after starting an anti-anxiety medication, and had an awful, falling down and injuring himself, episode in front of our kids. I believe he has now stopped the anxiety med, as he blamed it rather than the drinking.  He had not been in touch with his sponsor for several months, although he has reconnected in last several weeks. So - no counselor, no doctor, no sponsor in general, no friends, etc.

His brain sometimes does not seem to work. He is "off". I know a lot of that has to do with drinking, but it seems more than that. I worry that he has had some kind of small stroke, or has a brain tumor or something else. And that it would be so tragic is there is something else going on (physical or mental), but nobody to support him in getting that checked out. I also have read that lots of problems come from  alcohol abuse that loved ones would like to blame on mental disorders, etc., but really just stem from continued alcohol abuse BUT.  I look at him, and one side of his mouth curves down a bit. A lopsided mouth. I never saw that before last year. I wonder sometimes if it has to do with something that is going on. Is nobody paying enough attention to see what is or could be going on with him?

One counselor had suggested last year that I give him an ultimatum for me staying in our marriage, to consist of:  1) counseling 2) AA 3) a full checkup from a psychiatric neurologist (who can identify both physical and emotional neuro issues).  I did urge the first two, and he has cycled in and out of those. I never mentioned the third. He is so stubborn, hates doctors, is paranoid, etc!!! I have just not had the stomach to urge this on him. I am trying to separate right now, and let him be responsible for his own choices, but he can't see the chaos, confusion, and missteps he lives within.  

How can I do the right thing, in this situation. If I just end our marriage, and don't urge this, I will always feel like there might have been something we overlooked.   

Really struggling here. Feeling like this is the last and only thing I can possibly be involved with, don't want to meddle or control, but like I said, I worry something might be falling between the cracks, and there is nobody to see except me.  

Thanks.. hope I was clear enough.



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~*Service Worker*~

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You could suggest that he consult a Doctor and explain your concerns. Other than that there is little you can do except attend an alanon meeting and take care of yourself.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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If you have a family doctor and medical coverage I'd use it.  There is lots of support out there which can take the pressure off of you oceanpine   It will relieve him of having to find answers to questions he might not know he has.  Prayers from Hilo...I know what you are worried about.   (((((hugs)))))  smile



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Veteran Member

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Posts: 62
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Agree with Betty and Jerry -

I so badly wanted to figure out what was going on so maybe I could find a solution and it would click with my H and he would see the light... for me I have learned thru this program, sitting in at open AA meetings... they are not done until they are done. Nothing I say or do will make my H see the light, that was between him and his HP. This program has helped me take the focus off of him and put it onto me. It is scary to "let go" who will make sure things are going to be ok, if I don't? Sometimes it is harder to do the second part of that slogan, "let god" I spent so many years forcing solutions and playing god that I wasn't sure it would help me. Once I fully grasped step 1 and was willing to believe I was not god and one of my understanding was there to help guide me - one for me to trust and love... my life did start to have clarity, reality was there for me, the rose colored glasses came off and I understood for me, the greatest help I could be to my H was to let his path unfold naturally. Whatever that looked like for him.

Many good thoughts for you!! xxoo

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Kats

To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you -  Lewis B. Smedes



~*Service Worker*~

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(((Hugs))) - we went through some similar things here - I was hesitant to impose boundaries if there were other issues beyond my knowledge - in our world, it was mental health and/or addiction/substance abuse. I analyzed all of this to death and offered more assistance than necessary because in my world, I was the only one concerned. I had to hurt and worry for a long, long while before I finally accepted that you can not help someone who does not want help.

Do what you can with what you know, and then keep the focus on you and work your program. I actually have a bit of this going on right now and I just keep praying about it and turning it over - I am totally powerless over another's choice to accept help and it's sad to watch but I have to do so from 'across the street'.

Take good care of you...

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



~*Service Worker*~

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I think there would be nothing wrong with outlining your concern and strongly suggesting he seek some sort of help. If nothing else, at least you would feel you'd done what you could. Beyond that there isn't much you can do though. My partner is the same; he doesn't trust doctors or professionals of any kind and it's been as obvious as anything for as long as I've known him that he has diabetes or something very like it. His response, when I tell him is "I'm not being diabetic. I'm not doing needles or giving up drinking". Can't argue with that. He knows. Quite possibly your husband knows too but doesn't want the changes that would go with a diagnosis. So really, finding out that there might be "something we could have done" could also be finding out there was a treatment and he refused to make changes that would go along with it...another potential resentment and another potential thing for you to feel guilty/anxious about. It might not be a simple case of "he gets a diagnosis and life gets magically better".
If he wanted to, he could seek help. People generally know when something is wrong even if they don't want to discuss it or admit it to others.
The other thing is, a lot of the time when a partner or parent etc is always focused on the other's health (or other responsibilities), that person seems to relax and get complacent about it. I came to the conclusion that my He was so used to his mother and I worrying about his health that he didn't need to at all; he maybe felt so closely watched that he knew if anything serious happened we'd have him in the hospital spouting our respective diagnoses to the doctors in seconds flat. Without that kind of fussing, people do take more notice of their own well being, when they realise that no-one else is.

Having said all of that, it's not realistic or fair to yourself to think that you alone are responsible for "knowing" what's wrong or getting it fixed. It's exhausting in fact. He does have his own HP, maybe you could ask your HP to talk to his HP and then let go of the outcome- ha. Someone suggested that to me once and it made really good sense to me.

Hugs.

__________________

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)



Senior Member

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Hello, I just felt like chiming in because you sound so much like me. I have spent so much energy and time over many years trying to find a reason for anything to be happening to my AH other than He Drinks Too Much. Just recently my AH had a major surgery because of a condition which is (surprise!) linked directly to alcohol consumption. He ended up with some really really ugly scars on parts of his body. He's completely freaked out over said scars. He recently got on ME for not researching doctors etc. more before his surgery because maybe we could have ended up with one who wouldn't make such ugly scars.

My response: you have internet. You could have looked it up. (And stopped drinking a long time ago, but we'll let that elephant just sit quietly in the room.)

There will always be something else that one "could have done". Nobody can ever really say that they did it all. At some point, I think there is a great deal of humanity in drawing the line in the sand and saying "I tried, and I'm done", and letting the consequences come as they may.


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Senior Member

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Goodness, where to start... I hope this makes sense as a response to your post, as it is my own esh and what I have come to learn and understand. I do not profess to be perfect (anymore), but I am no longer anyone's puppet and I no longer feel I am the puppet master for others. Naturally I didn't realize it was like that at the time, but I realize it now.

I know for me, I was ALWAYS pushing...pushing my AH to go to the Dr (but never trusting him to tell them what I thought he should), so I had to go with him. And then, pushing him to take certain medications, to eat certain things, to wear certain things, to be the person I thought I wanted him to be. I would even go so far as to have him sit quietly in the Dr's office while I described his issues and symptoms. Looking back, I feel pretty foolish now. I was so negative all of the time and so controlling because he was a "drunk". I emasculated him in no uncertain terms, treated him like a child and undermined his every decision to the point he rarely spoke to me about anything of any consequence.. He let me, of course, because he had checked out emotionally years before, actually before I even met him. (I had no idea of the extent of his alcoholism or of his true emotional distance until just last year).

Though I never denied his alcoholism, I never fully understood it either because I knew just enough about AlAnon from going as a child with my mother (before my father hit bottom and got sober). I never meant harm to anyone, but I certainly did cause harm and now I have to spend my days working to repair the problems I caused. Or, I guess it seems that way, because for my wonderful daughter's entire life I have controlled everything (yet truly nothing). I can see in her behaviors an exact replica of what I taught her and it is very very sad. We are working on living a new way now, but it will take time to change a lifetime of mistakes. I pray she will accept her powerlessness over others before she ends up married to an alcoholic herself.

Just before my RAH stopped drinking, he had hurt himself doing something stupid. Of course he was Drunk. He had started falling from tree stands or tripping over stumps while walking in the woods and his physical health had declined so that his muscles simply would not heal. We went once again to a specialist to deal with a shoulder injury and I, of course, called ahead to have them note his file that he was an active alcoholic. Then, when the brilliant Physicians Assistant prescribed him Percocet and Valium, I immediately reminded him that he was dealing with an active A, who drinks every day and he said it would be no problem to take these meds. Sorry if the sounds like I think I am smarter than a PA, but giving an actively drinking A these meds is INSANE! It is not only that they are dangerous on their own because of the way they react with alcohol, but the "cet" refers to acetaminophen which can be seriously dangerous to the liver of an A. So, I reminded the PA again that he was drinking every day (at least a case), but I was overruled and he dispensed the meds. That was most certainly out of my control and it didn't take long before AH was doing some seriously bad things.

After about a week, I called the specialist again and got in with the actual Doctor. When I told him what was going on, he told me and my AH that he should have just "stopped taking the meds if they were causing problems" (yeah, like that was gonna happen). He then spoke only to me (with A right there hanging his head, sweating profusely, & unable to stop drinking for even a few minutes) and told me that the quantity and duration of my AH's drinking had likely caused him to have a medical condition where his brain had turned to "soggy mush".  It was suggested that A may need to be committed to a facility for the rest of his life. That was quite a blow to hear as AH was still working (although making very poor decisions...especially since being given those meds), and had been somewhat in a state of deteriorating "control" of himself until just after he was injured.

I was now at my very worst in trying to control, but I had honestly "lost it" and had resorted to screaming at the top of my lungs "DON'T DRIVE", which of course was ignored. I had to give up after that. I was done. I had lost all control of everything. I wanted OUT! And, I wanted out now! I told him not to call me when he got a DUI, drove off with my daughter, and silenced my ringer. That very day, he got a DUI and, though he didn't call me, a state trooper didand it rand on FaceTime (with blue Lights flashing, radio noises in the backgroun, and the unmistakable words of an official saying "mam, this is state trooper ---- and i have just arrested your husband for DUI". Nothing could hide this shame from the others students and mothers in the darkened, silent auditorium where pageant practice was in full swing at the high school. Oh how I wanted to turn my back, but I wasn't given that option (long story and not really relevant). I was done.  Even in the jail, he was blaming me for everything, screaming like a fool, and God knows what else. I left. I just wanted peace. 

Unfortunately I had to bond him out (yet another part of the irrelevant crap), but I put him out of the house and I meant it. I had to have peace. I realized I had no control at all over anything and this one was on him. Instead of helping him like I normally would have, I kept the appointment with the attorney that I had set up just before the call came in. This is when I began to really heal because peace meant more to me than anything else. I finally understood that I could not save him or anyone else. I could only help myself.

Alone in a very bad place, he reached out to someone and found AA. Things didn't change overnight and because of work issues he had to detox himself From over 30+ beers a day with more in weekends. It took around two weeks with lots of meetings and some excuses toward the end, but that was over a year ago now. AA is a very important part of his life and AlAnon is a very big part of mine. I'm sure it is obvious that we reconciled after a time and that we are both working on ourselves daily. We both falter on occasion, but each trpies very hard to regroup and make amends quickly. So far, he has had no relapse and I read AlAnon literature and/or this MIP board every day. I have to!

The stress of trying to control everything nearly drove us all insane. I know I was certainly insane.

I only go to his Dr appointments now when he asks (because of hearing issues), but he has to make the appointments, cancel them, follow or not the directions, and live his own life. If he doesn't ask, I don't go.  I don't check up, I don't freak out if a woman speaks to him (yeah I know as insanely jealous too), and I don't worry constantly if he is going to be arrested or run over someone driving drunk. I don't even let myself project (very often) and I try to stop it immediately if I slip.  

Believe it or not, we have been able to take a family vacation and have two more planned.  We have also made several impromptu overnight hotel arrangements just to spend time together, though we still have to deal with some physical intimacy issues. And, I am happier than I can remember being in my adult life.

I understand feeling that you have to give it your all before you give up on you A.  I wonder, however, if I had given up my control sooner if I might have allowed my RAH reach his bottom sooner. It is not for me to judge, condone, or condemn, but I know stepping back and allowing my RAH to face his own issues started a type of chain reaction which allowed him to find the sobriety he never even knew he wanted and me to find relief from my own perceived inadequacies and insecurities.

This program does work if you work it!

Please take what you want and leave the rest. 



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There, but for the Grace of God, go I.

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