Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

CyndiODAT · Senior Member

Heard from exBF

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Cynci It sounds to me as if you handled the situation with your ex with dignity and grace. One of my principles is that I treat everyone with courtesy and respect You did that --As for your new friend it sounds as if you had a good time and I am happy for you

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

They do keep baiting the hook. I'm not sure why you would feel guilty - I don't mean to be dismissive - but ending it with someone who chooses to have major problems in his life is not hurting him, it is the reasonable and predictable consequences of his actions. I remember reading recently that women are often put in the role of taking care of men's emotions. As if their emotions are some kind of wild animal we feel we have to take in and feed and nurture (and then the animal bites us and probably has rabies). But the truth is that we can hand their emotions right back to them. (However, I notice that he didn't even outright attempt to guilt you - the guilt assumption comes from you - why do we do that to ourselves?)

Sometimes for us Al-Anoners, being in touch with our exes is like alcoholics walking back into the bar. Like the alcoholics, we tell ourselves, "I'm fine, it would be impolite not to head in for just a minute, I bet I can handle it, I'm smarter now, I ... you're offering me a drink? Just the one? Okay, just put it down in front of me on the table here. I'm not going to indulge, I'm just..."

It took me a while to learn not to walk back into the bar.

Take good care of yourself.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

Cindy - so glad that you are doing self-care and enjoying yourself. I also do the best I can to treat everyone with dignity and respect so would have also responded. It is normal I believe in grieving still for what is no longer - I can also relate to the guilt. It's a part of the grieving process, and in my world, it's gotten better as I've continued with my program.

I practice empathy with my qualifiers and those I care about. I know deep within now that I've worked this program that their intentions are not malicious and the pain they caused is not on purpose. I always hold on to the disease concept, so I don't view reach-outs as baiting. I instead view it as pure and kind, because I view them as kind yet ill. It may be different since mine are my husband and children but I apply this even to others. When I begin to wonder, project or assume I know a motive, it takes away from me, my peace and my joy.

I no longer assume I know what anyone else is thinking or feeling. If they matter to my life, I ask. If they are able to participate in a healthy conversation, I will. If the conversation goes south, I can walk away. I am one who believes in recovery for both sides, and will continue to have hope for change in all I know and care about affected by this disease. I don't view his messages as baiting or see any hidden agenda - I see a person who cares/d about you reaching out as he deals with the end of a relationship.

(((Hugs))) - you sound good!

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

Cynthi you did well, thats all i ask of myself now.

That I act and do whats best, in a mature fashion.

My Heart and soul have their own ideas and they
Need retraining. They are resistant and Stubborn.

I for one am very glad For no contact so i can
heal and keep detaching.

Hugs

((((( cyndi ))))))

lookingup · ~*Service Worker*~

I so relate to this,(((((cyndi)))))). Hugs....LU

CyndiODAT · Senior Member

Thank you everyone for your wonderful words of encouragement. Yes, I create this 'guilt' for myself. For me it was his use of an 'upside down' smiling emoji that made me feel bad - indicating that he was doing 'okay' all things considered. It made me feel like 'I' had turned his life upside-down I guess. I also feel guilty because I am spending time with another male friend. This was not something I intentionally sought out, it just kind of transpired unexpectedly and it is something that makes me smile while I work through things for myself.

I guess time will reveal things as necessary.

Thank you all... I will keep on keeping on, once day at a time!

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

I remember a lesson from an early sponsor and the Al-Anon program I practiced which told me always look at your final response because there in lies the truth...and they were right...what did I and do I do... what part is/was mine? What motivates me or motivated me to respond or react a certain way? I came to practice using my final statement in my inventories and it helped me grow. One thing I learned was that I was far from the serenity and sanity I originally sought from the program and why that was, was because I had not spent near the time working it with the commitment and intensity I needed. I relapsed...an Al-Anon relapse and the merry-go-round made yet another trip with many new people on the rides and only one repeat rider...me. I became ashamed in front of the people I judged and went to camp out on the first step squarely upon the word unmanageability. My Higher Power then used my alcoholic/addict to touch my spirit, thoughts, behaviors and emotions by revealing to me just how committed to sobriety she had become. She and her recovery event is my daily definition of humility...being teachable.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

Having heard the details, I'd say there was definitely a "Poor me, look at me, I am suffering ... [and you caused it!]" in that message. I respectfully disagree with some posters that the A's aren't manipulative - in my experience, being an A is all about trying to manipulate situations, even if they don't sit there and plot it out bit by bit. People used to tell me I was manipulative and I never knew what they meant. Now the way I understand it is that being manipulative is when you try to influence someone by causing certain emotions in them, rather than by asking for what you want. When I realized that, I thought, "You mean there's a different way of getting what you want?" Not in my family of origin there wasn't! But after that I tried to quit being manipulative and be more straightforward. Anyway, in my experience A's are all about trying to get what they want by causing emotions in others: guilt, regret, fear, self-blame... I'm sure ready to pile those on myself even without an A urging me on!

Anyway, just thinking out loud. How great that you were out having a good time with a potentially healthier person. That's what we all could benefit from! Take good care of yourself!

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

Isn't it amazing how differently people can interpret small things. I would have taken it to mean something along the lines of "well, I'm OK but yikes, everything is so different". It's a good reminder of why it's not a good idea to spend time trying to imagine the mindset of others; we just can't know what another person thinks.
I think, honestly, people are vulnerable after a breakup whether they are an addict, or a codie, or the most emotionally together person on earth, and there's nothing on earth wrong with being kind and courteous or validating even. It has been obvious from your other posts that he didn't want the break up so maybe he IS a bit fragile; that's just how breakups are and why they are so difficult.
My baby brother broke up with his girlfriend a while back and she was just crazy about him. I really liked her and had become friends with her and of course she was pretty inconsolable for a while afterwards. When I spoke to little brother about it he told me how he was just eaten up with guilt over how sad she was and "how much he had hurt her". I pointed out to him that she was clearly looking for someone who wanted a deep and lasting love, and that by staying with her, he would have actually been preventing her from having that (since he did not feel the same way). He said he took heart in that and I think it's true; staying with someone when you don't return their feelings is a lot more hurtful than being honest and setting them free, even if they fall in a heap for a while. I think the fact that your ex is finding the breakup hard is just proof that he wanted something that you didn't, and now he needs to do whatever it is he needs to do to be ready to have that in his life (wow, that was a mouthful, lol!)

I'm glad to hear you are having fun, enjoying your freedom and making new friends. That's inspiring, to me

As to the notion other members are discussing, that all alcoholics are manipulative and try to cause emotions in others rather than saying what they mean; that's codependent behaviour and there surely are plenty of codependent alcoholics but there are also plenty of codependent non-alcoholics. I have 2 alcoholic siblings who don't have a manipulative bone in their bodies and keep their disease and their pain very carefully hidden; if anything I think they are overly kind and generous and responsible to try to make up for what they see as their terrible defects. I think that if I assumed that everyone with an addiction problem was irresponsible, manipulative or selfish I'd miss out on knowing some really awesome people and that would be a great shame.

Iamhere · ~*Service Worker*~

I too know various types of people from all walks of like - alcoholic, non-alcoholic, co-dependent, independent, etc. I believe it is wrong and dangerous to assume ALL members of a group are the same, operate the same and are sicker/worse than others. This is a disease and many are affected by it, and not all the same way.

Not all A's are manipulators just as not all A's are horrible parents, jobless, homeless, living in gutters, etc. What if he hit the wrong emoji? I've done this a million times and I also discovered that an emoji on my phone looks like a huge smile but on my girlfriend's phone, it is a nervous blushing emoji. For me, over-analyzing and looking for hidden agendas in other people is not a good use of my time and counter-productive to my recovery.

The differences in humans is exactly why we often do not discuss the alcoholic but rather our feelings/experiences. Those same differences are why giving advice is frowned upon. We've all had our lives affected by the disease and we're all looking for recovery. We recover at difference paces, and heal also at different rates. Accepting others as they are and being able to treat them with respect and kindness is what I've been taught in program.

Spending time guessing his intent is not what the post is/was about. It was about the guilt felt upon receiving the text. It is true in my life that I often hear from my sons when they want/need something, but I've grown to be able to ask what do you want/need vs. assuming they want to manipulate me. We each have to choose our path and pace of recovery and that's the best part of the journey.

(((Hugs)))

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene