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Post Info TOPIC: Gaslighting


~*Service Worker*~

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Gaslighting


I've recently stumbled across the term gaslighting. I think this is what happens with me and my AH. I want to find out more about it. Here's my example....the other night my husband and I are arguing and he says "and I tried to be more engaged and stay and chat with your family since you got so angry the last time they were here." I distinctly remember that I did not get angry the last time my family was visiting and I remember because I was using detachment he spent a lot of time in our room avoiding my famity aND i jus enjoyed their company. I told him that is not what I remember and of course it started an argument a huge argument that left me questioning myself. Meanwhile the attention was taken off of his bad behaviour and focused on me. Doss this sound like gaslighting to you? How do you deal with it?

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~*Service Worker*~

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This sounds like interacting with the disease of alcoholism to me . I stopped attempting to "figure out" my partner as I learned to keep the focus on myself.If he stated the above I would simply say ,as you did, that is not what happened and validate the truth.

I found that  responding to the situation calmly with the truth worked . Before alanon, I would "REACT, accuse him. then engage in a dispute and end up unsure over what had happened. I contributed unknowingly to the "Gaslighting" aww.

Keeping the focus on myself, validating my truth not engaging in destructive arguments prevents this behavior.
You were wise to have the awareness to pick this up and to accept the truth. Keep on keeping on KT



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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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Thanks hotrod!

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~*Service Worker*~

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KT2015 - I don't know if this helps or not but I don't try to over-analyze any exchanges with my A(s). In reality, so long as they are active with this disease, it's a pointless activity that serves no value. I can say that they often vehemently disagree with what I think, say, perceive and/or do. I just focus on me and move on.

Part of this is because I spent a great deal of time analyzing before I came to the program, and no matter what answer I came to - nothing changed. I agree with Betty - calmly speaking my truth and not engaging beyond that is the best course of action in my home.

So - JADE is a better tool for me than trying to figure out what's going on in the mind or actions of my active As....

Don't Justify
Don't Argue
Don't Defend
Don't Explain

HTH!

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



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KT, as long as you know what is true, honestly, it doesn't matter. Maybe he interprets If he's actively drinking, anything is possible. The thinking is skewed.  There is an ancronym in the Alanon program. It's not a slogan. It's more of an everyday tool that can help us not to engage when someone accuses us of something we know isn't true. We use J.A.D.E.  It means we don't have to justify, argue, defend or explain.

This tool works well when dealing with other family members too. If they are curious why your husband is isolating and not hanging out with them, they can ask him directly if they choose to. We're only responsible for our own behavior. We don't have to justify, argue, defend or explain anyone else's behavior to other people. I've found it's best to redirect them to get an answer from the person themself. It can be said lovingly to family. We don't have to own what isn't ours to own. We don't need to clean up the messes caused by other people.  We also don't need to take on emotions of shame and embarrassment because of inappropriate behaviors exhibited by the alcoholic.  We didn't cause, can't control it and can't cure it.

KT, I hope you find the strength to continue using the tool of detachment and not engage in futile arguments with your ah.  Reacting just sucks up our time and energy. Wishing you a Happy Thanksgiving.  TT



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Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.



Member

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This kind of exchange doesn't just happen with alcoholics! My husband has never drank and we have conversations like that sometimes. I use what I have learned in dealing with my alcoholic son with my husband a lot.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Gaslighting is a classic characteristic of the disease of alcoholism.

According to wikipedia: Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of
mental abuse in which information is twisted or spun, selectively
omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented
with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory,
perception, and sanity.

I found that when my AH does this, it is to create the illusion
that I have somehow done something wrong, which gives
him all the more reason to drink.

Now when he tries to pull this game with me, I just walk away.



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 "Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it

does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown

Debbie

Sus


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Hi KT2015, Oh my gosh!! Yes! Total gaslighting, its classic A behavior. My ABF does that to me all the time! Tries to convince me that things transpired very differently than they actually did to make me look like I was the problem. I'm so sorry you are subject to this emotional abuse. My ABF is so good at it that I think he convinced himself that his warped perception is the truth. Its very hard to detach from that, but that's exactly what you have to do. Simply don't react and know that this is one of their behaviors

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In my opinion gas lighting is crazy making and goes hand and hand with this disease.Perhaps that is really the way they see the world though, denial runs deep. In dealing with gas lighting I agree with the above posters, I drop the rope. I don't have to be right. I don't have to make myself crazy by trying to analyze why another person is the way they are. If I allow myself to be roped into gaslighting, it will drain me as the defensiveness of the disease will come out in the other person. My inner peace and serenity are my most valuable possession.

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I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive 



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Thank you Iamhere I needed that! (JADE) Had an exchange with my AH tonight and unfortunately did every one of those. Trying so hard to stay calm but he spouted off about his crazy notions about Al-Anon and that it is "driving a wedge between us" . I just went off like a rocket and I know I could have done better.

I don't care if he ever comes to Al-Anon or if he ever "gets it" (our adult daughter is alcoholic also) but I don't want him spouting half truths about a program he knows nothing about!

It is he that is driving the wedge I'm afraid because I in no way will stop going to Al-Anon Have meeting tomorrow-just looking for something relevant in the meantime and I'm glad I saw your post.





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Thorn


~*Service Worker*~

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Wecome to MIP Thorn - so glad you found us and glad you are here....

If you keep reading around here, you'll find all kinds of tools that will help you 'stay on your side of the street'.....Glad that you have already found Al-anon and have attended!!

So sorry about your daughter and her disease. I have two sons and unfortunately they too are alcoholic. I came here a few years ago, and am so glad that I did. Al-Anon has restored me to sanity - at least as much as my HP wants me to have.

We're a fun group with a focus on positive energy and recovery. Glad you joined us - and who knows - maybe you husband will go one day.....never say never!

Keep coming back - we're just a post away!

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



~*Service Worker*~

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Hello KT,

Gaslighting is crazy making - but only if you let it! Once I knew what was going on I found it easier to just ride through it. It is not worth too much mind-space!

I saw a talk on the internet that helped me to just ignore it when it happens to me The speaker asked a member of the audience what his profession was and whether he was married. The reply was 'I am a doctor and yes, I am married with two children.' The speaker paused, sighed, and then said 'I'm sorry to have to tell you this but in reality you are not a doctor and that woman who lives in your house with her children is not your wife, she is simply a lodger.' This carried on for a couple of minutes with the audience member protesting that he was indeed a doctor etc. and, whilst laughing, he also said that he felt quite uncomfortable as the conversation progressed - even though he knew it was just an exercise.

What my husband is thinking may, or may not, be his reality. It is up to me to decide if it is my reality. He may or may not believe what he is saying. Either way, it is abusive to deny someone else's reality and I don't want to be an abuser! I have learnt to trust, and accept, my own judgement - healthy progress really! If I really need to I can double check with a friend. It is, sadly, a process that destroys trust but I did notice that as I stopped trying to justify my position my husband started to question his own reality more - can you imagine how difficult that process must have felt? But it was healthy progress as well.

I chose to accept that AH was speaking his reality as he saw it at the time and I imagine that he felt the same huge discomfort that I did at having his reality denied and figured that he would defend his reality as fiercely as I would like to defend mine. That conversation could go on for ever couldn't it? So now I just validate myself by saying 'I am struggling to see this the same way you do, can we just agree to differ on this one?'

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~*Service Worker*~

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Despite the fact that gas lighting is used by alcoholics and other types of abusers and mentally ill/emotionally immature people, the best thing I got out of program was learning my part in the whole cycle. I found that when he went fishing and threw out a line for me, I would take the bait. This would start the messy merry go round insane arguments and I would come away feeling like I had been beaten to a pulp mentally and emotionally and he would be sitting there beaming as if he had just won the triple crown.

My old sponsor told me: never try to rationalize with a irrational person. I learned the tools from program that many here have already mentioned above. I don't JADE anymore and I have learned to say, "Yep, you may be right" and I walked away and didn't engage further even if I knew I was 100% in the right. I just learned to ask another question I learned in program: How important is it? And, I learned to just go do the next right thing: whether that be to go do the dishes, read a book, go for a walk, redirect my thinking and get back into a positive mental attitude, or take out the trash. Whatever it is, I had to actually practice disengaging and making a concerted effort to NOT take the bait.

Best wishes to you. It can be done. For us, unfortunately, once I started pulling away from engaging with him and getting into those circular arguments our marriage really started to fall apart. Mostly due to his advancing alcoholism and crazy making unacceptable behaviors, but also due to the fact that I no longer allowed myself to be his emotional dumping ground. He saw that as a sign that I didn't love him anymore. And, well, maybe I didn't. But program really helped me figure out whether I wanted to continue to live that way any longer and it helped me make the decision to gracefully exit my marriage and be ready to start a new life.

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~*Service Worker*~

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One of my favorite slogans for when I get in these situations is "I don't have to attend every fight I'm invited to".

Kenny

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~*Service Worker*~

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Thank you all so much. I have found all of your input really helpful. The "you may be right" comment is probably what I NEED to say but it is so HARD. I feel like I am letting him think he is right. I really liked the JADE and the not attending every fight I am invited to is also a good reminder. Thank you all so much for your help. There is so much wisdom on this board.

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