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Post Info TOPIC: Alcoholism and hoarding. how do I get rid of the clutter


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Alcoholism and hoarding. how do I get rid of the clutter


i have  always been a bit of a clutter bug, but never to the extreme that my AH has taken it. He has managed to trash our entire house and yard except for a few small areas that I rule like the portion of our yard where my koi pond and chickens live, my side of the bedroom and the kitchen, and he refuses to let me get rid of anything and throws a huge fit whenever I even mention trying to get rid of stuff or the need to get rid of the mess. The garage is a complete nightmare. I am drowning in stuff and it's making me crazy. I don't know how to get through to him. We are musicians and I used to work at home for my day job at my previous employer. I lost my work from home job 5 years ago and recently decided to change my home office into a music studio. He was all for the idea and started moving tons of his stuff into the room and has now completely taken it over and trashed it and I am livid but anytime I try to mention anything about cleaning up the mess he throws a hissy fit and goes off about how he's busy doing other projects for me.

I have not one place in my home where I can go and not be in a chaotic mess or close the door and not be interrupted so I have made a decision to get all of his stuff out of the studio and turn it back into a personal space for me and put a futon or day bed in there so that I have a place to sleep when he makes that impossible in our bed (which is frequently!) my dilemma is how to tell him without sounding like a selfish bitch. Part of my plan will requir that the garage be cleaned up so that I will have a place to put his stuff. I don't know how I'm going to accomplish all this without his help but I'm hoping to either get some friends to help me or hire someone. He used to have his man cave out there but has let it get so piled with stuff that you can't move in there. If anyone has any ideas on how to approach him about this please let me know. I am afraid to mention it till after our weekly gig this Sunday but I hope to get up my nerve and start making it happen next week. 



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~*Service Worker*~

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I have no experience with this type of dilemma. I must remember that I am powerless over people places and things and that taking the action and letting go of the results works.

I know that there are professional companies that will gladly come out and help you. I might research them, discover the costs and then bring up the subject with my partner.

Good luck

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


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I have never been able to relax with too much "clutter" around me and I clean up constantly because of it. Otherwise we would be in exactly the same place right now. Lately, however, I have been pulling things out and selling them at a local "consignment" type store. If they don't sell quick enough (like when I tried online), I am going to have the auction guys pick them up and see what I can make ff of them.

Here, there are two different types of resale stores. One is for the little "junk" and the other for antiques and curiosity pieces. I'm still working on pricing and listing the "junk", but have taken most of the better things on to sell. The money is a nice motivator and I find I am more willing to let things go if I am being "paid" for them rather than simply throwing them away or donating (although I do donate to people or organizations I feel inclined to...just not some of the ones that are out for profit).

Perhaps hubby will be encouraged to sell some of his collections if he has a place to sell them... It's just a thought....because I am thrilled to have some of my junk gone and I find I am much less willing to buy more junk when I have spent so much time cleaning out what was already here. You would be amazed at what people will buy...of the price is right.

Good luck!

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There, but for the Grace of God, go I.



~*Service Worker*~

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Juku I relate to this very much. My a would fill a room with junk, then move on to the next and constantly complain that "he had no space in this house for himself!" which was ridiculous as he had filled each and every inch of space with his junk. Boxes and cases and bags of his "stuff". There was not a single place in the house not filled with his garbage; I hated it!! I once had a look in some of the boxes that were filling our dining room. One of them contained only a solitary old holey sneaker, a broken electrical cord to nothing and a dead spider. Each and every box and bag was like this...just mountains and mountains of literal garbage that needed to go onto a bonfire.
It was very hard to address this with him as he too would have a hissy fit "you don't want me to have ANY space in this house" he would cry... but in the end I gave him the option...choose which rooms you want and which are mine to use and stood my ground. I did have to do the entirety of the work myself moving all of his "belongings" to his space and then making mine my own but it was worth it and I rejoiced in my own space when it was done. And believe me it was a monster of a job, garage and all....UGH.
Hugs and affirmations from me...you can do it!



-- Edited by missmeliss on Saturday 27th of June 2015 07:13:39 AM

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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)



~*Service Worker*~

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I am the professed pack-rate in my home and my A is a pitcher. He will throw away anything that he perceives is in his way - without looking in the box. He discarded his Grand-mother's china doing this as well as some other items stored here that belonged to family members who have passed.

I have a terrible time letting go of stuff. Like DoingMyBest, it is easier if I am able to sell or re-home. I've been slowly working through my home which is 3 stores and 4 garages.

Because we have so much space, we're not super cluttered. I am strategic about my clutter - LOL. But, it is an issue and we can't downsize (my next big project) until I do something. So - my efforts have begun. We too carved out space for my A husband, and I do not put anything of value or anything of mine or my boys near his area. He has respected the boundary for the most part.

I don't live with clutter around 'me' - everything has a place - but I gotta lotta stuff in a lotta places. A few garage sales, Craigslist, Ebay and an estate sale are all options for items you want to sell or as above, local consignment stores.

Like all things recovery, I had to become willing to see the 'stuff' for what it is - 'stuff'. But the 'stuff' to me has an emotional attachment. It's possible I have a box with one shoe, a cord and a spider - I hope not, but the 'stuff' in my home is not just mine - it's also my AH, my 2 ASons, 3 dead relatives, 2 dead g-parents and then my parents, who downsized.

It's a process and I chose progress - not perfection.

Great topic and I will follow this thread as I need more guidance!!!

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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



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Hi Jules. You're a creative. Creatives are messy people. We surround ourselves with half-finished projects, tools and materials that we envision as future works of art, aesthetic or functional improvements, or maybe just expressions of ourselves. Healthy creatives just clean up every once in a while. He's a creative too, or used to be.

My experience with my A is that I always thought we would make decisions together as partners about our surroundings, but while I entered into this with the mindset of "nothing is done until we agree", she does not have that mindset and has always done things however she wants regardless of my objections or input.

WARNING - POSSIBLE BAD ADVICE TO FOLLOW

As difficult as it was, I finally started doing the same thing (after 15 years). I don't do things spitefully, just to get back at her (I did a few early on), but if I want something handled a certain way, I just do it. I've found that, there are a few things that we just silently battle back and forth about (how the kitchen is arranged, how the laundry is managed), but I do it my way and she does it hers; but I've also found that, on some things, she eventually gives up, as I used to do. She doesn't want to discuss it because she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

So what I'm getting at is if you want the studio, just take it. If he says anything just say "I'm making a studio" like a stone-faced robot. He'll move his stuff in, and you'll move it out, and vice-versa, just don't give him the fight he's looking for. J.A.D.E. - Don't Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain, just say "I'm making a studio" over and over, and he might eventually give up. As usual it's more work than you feel like you should have to do, and you're right, you shouldn't have to. "should, shouldn't, would have, could have" doesn't change anything. If you want it for yourself, you have to get it for yourself. When you live with an A, they just make it a little harder (and yes, sometimes impossible).

Anyway, don't know if it'll work, but it has worked in part for me.



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El infierno es la ausencia de la razón.


~*Service Worker*~

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I'm thinking of the phrase "say what you mean, but don't say it mean" - "I want to turn the studio into a girl cave, you have man cave space and I realize I need/want a girl cave". It might mean you have to do all the cleaning out work yourself because of his resistance, and you can even assure him he won't have to do any of the work, one box at a time is sometimes all we can do. For me when I'm working on redoing a space, the process of cleaning it out gives my mind time to work on the future possibilities so there is value in me having to take my time.

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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France


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Thanks so much for all of your thoughts and suggestions. I went to another face-to-face meeting today, but then when I got home I had a conversation with my A that has just devastated me. He finally admitted to me that he hasn't quit drinking at all, he's just cut down quite a bit, and he thinks he should be able to just do that. He's been sneak drinking and staying up late so he can drink while I sleep. He looked me in the eye a little while ago and told me that he truly believes that he doesn't have a drinking problem. Now he thinks he just has anger issues. He does have anger issues, but I think being an alcoholic is a huge part of that and now he's telling me he doesn't think he's an alcoholic. Never mind that he's been drinking 12 to 18 beers every single night for the last 22 years pretty much. How much denial can one person be in? I'm not sure where we go from here. He just went to a party where I know he will be drinking and I told him not to bother coming back tonight if he was going to be drinking. I guess we'll see what happens.

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~*Service Worker*~

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(((JuKuVee)))

My wife said the same, except she thought it was me with the anger problem, and before AlAnon, I sure DID have an anger problem!

She has been sober for almost two weeks this time, and is still denying that she needs AA, although she claims to go to meetings. I am trying to keep my calm and let her do her thing, while I focus on myself and my own recovery. I used to think that it would be enough if she stopped drinking, and now I am pretty sure that it is not.

Good for you for telling him not to come back if he has been drinking. No reason to ruin your night with that.

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Skorpi

If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu



~*Service Worker*~

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(((JukeVee)))

So sorry for your situation.

This just points to how cunning, baffling and powerful this disease really is. I am sending hugs, prayers and positive thoughts your way.

This type of situation, before program, would have made me withdraw, isolate and dwell on all that is wrong with my life. The program tells me I have choices and can choose peace and actions that are for me and my betterment.

May you find some peace today and use a few program tools to help you realize you can and will thrive with or without the disease in your life.

Hang in there and keep coming back!

__________________

Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging.  Pause before assuming.  Pause before accusing.  Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret.  ~~~~  Lori Deschene

 

 



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Wow!  I have the same problem with not having any space of my own in the houseit is frustrating.  Though I have to say my situation is very similar to Skorpi- I have a hoarder and a dumper.  And its funny because Im blamed for having more stuff (which is not true- I have a lot of stuff, and trying to get it organized once I have some space).  And I have things that I just used thrown away- countless things from kitchen gadgets to teaching materials, to food I just bought to clothing I wear weekly.  However, I cant throw her stuff away because its so valuableThats a gift I got that cost them $300 and its an original.. blah blah blah.  I dont careits been in my closet for as long as Ive had the house and this is the first time its seen the light of day. 

 

I think hoarding for some is part of the addictive disease of not wanting to deal with issues but instead hiding under things and with my spouse, also alcohol.  It is insidious.  My A doesn't want to deal with life and the responsibilities that it holds. I think they can go hand in hand.  Its a lot of work for me to clean up after my A.and my spouse also seems to collect trash.  Its maddening!

 

So, I told my spouse that Im having a garage sale, and that I am organizing it, but if you want stuff in it you put it here or here.  And also price things. My spouse gave me the (foolish) permission to put any clothes in the garage sale that I havent seen her wear in 2 years.  Wow, that is easy.  Yes, it should be her responsibility, I know.  However, if it gets stuff out of MY closet and creates room in hers so I can get her crap out of my space, its freedom for me.  Of course, Im sure in the next breath shell say, That cant goits an original and cost $5,000,000.  I keep saying the same mantra: we have a small house and the clutter is overtaking it. Plus, she wants to get a dog, so I tell her, until this house is manageable, its not fair for an animal to be in this tight space.  Unfortunately I have to do that.otherwise nothing gets done.  Painful for her means something of some sort will get done.  So far, its being agreed upon.  Now, for a weekend that doesnt get rained out, then I can finally have that sale!



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Butterflies can't see their wings.  They can't see how truly beautiful they are, but everyone else can. People are like that as well.  Anonymous



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Sorry, I meant Iamhere's situation is similar to mine. As far as the admission of being an alcoholic, my A is deep in that denial, and will "cut back" because in her opinion, a little alcohol is not bad to unwind...not to mention she likes the taste. As far as with Skorpi, I am the angry one too, but whenever my A does in fact get angry, again, complete denial. Partially narcissism being brought up in a A family and it ran rampant with the booze. It's exhausting.

Hang in there JukuVee. Part of the hoarding is also a musician's trait (as I am one as well). But you don't have to live that way!

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Butterflies can't see their wings.  They can't see how truly beautiful they are, but everyone else can. People are like that as well.  Anonymous



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Wow, I've missed meetings lately and just happened upon an open tab on the computer today to this group. I SO NEEDED IT!!!!! As long as I've been with my husband there has always been clutter, not dealing with things immediately ... i.e., pile up mail on desk then another day finally take a whole day to get through it all with the filing part of it. He would justify that it was better use/ more efficient way to use his time. After reading this ... now I just see what this has really been IS a part of the addictive personality. The bad part is, over the 25 years I have gotten so tired of always fighting against the mentality and being told I expected too much with regular weekly cleaning, filing, and getting rid of "stuff" that is never used. Well I got to the point of so much anger, resentment towards him for always making me feel like the bad guy and feeling like I'm fighting an uphill battle without any help that I just gave up too. Now the house is trashed IMO because there is SO MUCH clutter throughout .... because when we do work or have projects we approach it from completely different points of view. Not to mention I felt like a failure when I have so many neighbors and family who have kept a house in order, meals, done things with the kids .... and I feel like a failure cause I can so not do it all, let alone do it at all well. It feels like an uphill battle I don't know how to get through without yelling all the time because I'm angry and mad at the lack of follow through and help.

But reading this has helped me to see things more clearly with not personalizing my husbands mess, lack of responsibility ... and the comment of A BOX AT A TIME .... if I can hold myself accountable to that ... makes it achievable .... trying to get it all in order overwhelms me and makes me shut down and not get started. I am splurging and having a lady come help me for a few hours to also get some perspective and another set of hands to help me get started at least. I'm tired of being embarrassed by my home, my garage and our kids not being able to use the whole house to have friends in to play or to not be embarrassed. On occasion, my daughter has asked to not go through garage to get in the house but to come in front door with friends as she knows their garage is used to park in not as a dump zone!!!

I'm grateful for your sharing and my ability to have access to a place to not feel alone, crazy .... and be able to understand my frustration or get perspective. I hope to get a box done to day!!!!! Thank you so much and I hope we all get a box done and out of the way,


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You know, if you think about it, clutter really is putting off what you don't want to deal with. With my recovery, I'm starting to deal with some things and learning to let go of my clutter. I am starting to deal with things that in the past I would sweep under the rug. I'm just as guilty as my A (I may not have AS MUCH clutter, but I still have too much stuff, too much baggage that I'm holding onto white knuckled). I think getting rid of things I've had for over 30 years is a huge step. And I'm starting to deal with things around the house, my upbringing and codependency issues from my childhood, trying to make amends with my father before he passes away, and the hardest part, dealing with my spouse and the reality that our relationship isn't what it should be. That is the hardest step for me. My HP I know will make it happen in the end. My spouse is covering up years of hurt with alcohol and clutter and sarcasm. I feel for her, as in a way, I'm dealing with some of those hard life lessons, too. I have a long way to go. But I have a lot of clutter emotionally and physically I need to let go of. Physically also for all of the weight I've put on, too (I have binging problems with eating- I'm no better than my spouse). This post is so consistent with what I'm dealing with in my life. Thank you for it. I hope it's helpful for you too.

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Butterflies can't see their wings.  They can't see how truly beautiful they are, but everyone else can. People are like that as well.  Anonymous



~*Service Worker*~

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I have been dejunking my home before i move wow what a
Lot of junk. I have only lived here 15 years. I left the cellar
And shed for xah to deal with.

I am the culprit i might need it or do not know what to Do
with it. Most of my stuff and business paperwork went to
The dump. It has Been around long enough. Some went to
Thrift shop.

I can not say it felt good but it was not bad either. I know
I have these issues of not getting rid of things. I am saving
Some stuff i wish i had not. Maybe i will change my spots
With alanon. There is always hope fir change:)



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Member

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My god I thought it was only me. My AH is a severe hoarder and a reverse-politics one as well.

Meaning, anything someone *else* (me) has is junk and is in the way, but HIS stuff is important and vital and should be preserved. Meanwhile I can't use any of my upstairs rooms because his boxes and heaps and extra clothes he'll never wear are stacked everywhere. I make a point of telling him each week when I take another big bag or box of my own stuff (because I am determined to declutter and have been working at it steadily) to Goodwill, but he just congratulates me and then moves his own stuff around to different spots and fills up whatever space I have cleared. He is also a former musician so we have five or six non-working banjos, a boxful of harmonicas, drums, recording equipment from the early 20th century, and boxfuls of music newsletters that will never be looked at again. I want to scream.

I would quietly dispose of lots of it but he's such a fanatic, he would notice and then ask "where his stuff went" so that doesn't work. And I really don't want to be rude and dispose of anything that has sentimental value; but he's a hoarder, no question, and I don't know how to manage the situation.

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