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Post Info TOPIC: I need a push and I'm stubborn as hell.


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I need a push and I'm stubborn as hell.


Trying to get myself to start al-anon.  Facing the same obstacles that I know many have faced and I know my story will be nothing new.

Concerns:

RELIGION AND HIGHER POWER

Yes, I am an hardcore atheist.  Posts by spookyMulder and Enigmatic were helpful in working towards mitigating this obstacle, but it will be a VERY difficult one for me.  
I was reared in, and still reside in a city that spawned one of the most renowned religious shills there has ever been.  
I was force-fed fundamentalist christianity daily, with a pitchfork, in an authoritarian setting by a person who was not in his right mind.  
The very word "god" has connotations for me that result in reasonably strong discomfort and a high degree of distrust.  

(I will spew venom at anyone that attempts to tell me that I just wasn't in the company of "true" christians, so don't go there.  Just don't.)

I do understand that the HP reference is supposed to be devoid of religious meaning, but the reaction is visceral.
Sitting in a room of people reciting a prayer in unison may result in me immediately walking out.  I'm trying to overcome this.

I do understand that there is no single answer for this, but I invite advice from others who may understand the feelings of people who have suffered at the hands of those claiming to be working in "god's" service.

I have always looked within myself for strength and guidance and believe that I have a reasonably strong moral compass by nature, but I in NO WAY consider myself perfect, or believe that I have complete dominion over my actions, reactions or feelings, so I understand the concept intended by "giving it over to a higher power"; but the concept, to me, translates more into simply abandoning the compulsion to attempt to steer and guide the chaotic aspects of my situation, and that I can do.  That leaves no one in control, which is what I believe anyway.
I know that I need to learn how to recognize these attempts and put the concept into practice. (among other things)
I have no illusions that I can do this by myself, nor am I attempting to "fix" anyone other than myself.

At present I intend to use the group and the calming "goodwill of the collective" as my HP and hand control to that.  
I hope to attend enough to be able to summon the strength of all those that have suffered before me, however, the group is still imaginary at this point, so I have reservations.

FEAR, ANGER AND ACCEPTANCE

I have accepted the fact that I have become more ill than I may have already been by existing in the ether of an alcoholic for many years.
I have moved past "her alcoholism is the problem";  I see that the problem is wholly mine.

Remember, however, that I'm at step #0, so my rage is still seething.

There are MANY concrete, demonstrable, life-altering and crippling problems that her alcoholism has led her to create; and learning how to give up trying to get her to take responsibility for any of them (and worse, having to take the blame for most of them as she manipulates all who surround her) will be very difficult.

I fear that if I let the lid to my pandora's box of fury open even a crack in a meeting, I will not be received well.

I have a TERRIBLE potty mouth as an over-reaction to being punished as a child for saying words like "dag" and "crap", so when I express myself, it's generally more colorful than polite society would find acceptable.  
F-bombs and s-bombs are my dearest friends when expressing unpleasantness, therefore, if I have to tip-toe around the sensibilities of those who choose to take offense at such language, I fear that the experience will be less than cathartic and only add to my frustration.

PRIVACY AND PAIN

I can already feel that at my first meeting, when asked to state my name, I will simply burst into tears.
Not that I care who knows I'm there, I don't, and find no shame in going but I am fundamentally a private person, and becoming a blubbering spectacle to a room full of strangers is not a comforting vision.  I know what I will look like that first meeting.  It won't be pretty.  I'm terrified.

LONELINESS

I have been without an emotionally intimate relationship for going on 19 years.
I had more physical intimacy in my 16th year of life than I've had throughout my entire marriage.  
I have never cheated on my spouse.  Ever.  
Practically all our friends are alcoholics, so I have dropped them.  I will not join her at the gatherings I used to rely on for socialization, therefore, I have no friends.

To be quite frank, if I get comfortable in the group and there are attractive women there, I could see myself exploring options.  
I don't want to be some smarmy jerk trying to use the group as a place to scam on women!
But I no longer have a social circle.  I work from home.  I work long hours.  I don't go out.  I work and I seethe.  And at the risk of sounding narcissistic, some women do find me attractive, so it's not a total pipe dream!

IF YOU'VE READ THIS FAR, THEN HIGHER POWER BLESS YOU!  EITHER I'M AN UNUSUALLY ENGAGING WRITER OR YOU ARE A SAINT!  THANKS FOR LISTENING.



-- Edited by almostThere on Sunday 24th of May 2015 10:40:26 PM

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I enjoyed readying your post, Almost There.

I have to admit, I did feel "uncomfortable" with reciting and reading the religious stuff. But since it helps other people, and they are there, I am down with it.

It is like God is this "powerful magic" for some people, and some people need more magic than others.

Reciting the stuff was uncomfortable, but it did not kill me, and if it helped other people, and there is a possibility that I might gain something from it, what the hell?

I understand about crying, and yep, you probably will. But when the meeting is over, somebody is going to come over and talk to you, and that will feel good!

You are not alone.

(((HUG)))

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Carrie



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PS, you are an engaging writer, because I am no saint!

Please keep venting, if that makes you feel better, I know just about 3 days ago, I felt the same rage as you are feeling, and worried people here would find out that I am an awful person.

Then I went to a face to face, and was able to share my anger, and everybody else there, shared that they too feel anger, even after YEARS of being in the program, but they are different because they are using the program to cope with it.

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Carrie



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Thanks! Every nudge helps. I appreciate it very much. I don't know when I'll get the nudge that pushes me through the door, but I need and welcome them all.

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El infierno es la ausencia de la razón.


~*Service Worker*~

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David had a great post about the whole higher power thing - how you would rely on someone who has skydived before for advice on how to skydive. Seethe - been there, done that - was so angry that I had to do the Al-Anon thing when HE had the problem, not me.

I have high blood pressure and I hate taking medicine for it, hate going to doctors, hate doctors, don't trust them because I think they are in cahoots with drug manufacturers to take people's money - but - and boy is this a big BUTT - I don't want to have a stroke, I WANT to be healthier so I do what the doctor says to do despite not liking it.

Sometimes the end DOES justify the means - IF going to al-anon meetings gets me to ______this point, then to al-anon I will go. Getting there was what was important - not my own personal beliefs. My first higher power, despite having a solid God-based higher power in my life, my higher power was to get OUT of the mess my life was in, escape from the mess my life had become. I didn't let myself get hung up on the semantics, because I needed help!

Welcome to the board!

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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France


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Another nudge. Some GREAT points. Thank you!!

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El infierno es la ausencia de la razón.


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Likemyheart, that is exactly what ticked me off last night. Why was I the one going out of the house at 8:00 PM to an AL Anon meeting when he is the one who causes the problem?

I was seriously annoyed when I left the house last night knowing that the AA meeting is in the same building, and HE is the one who needs it.

I had every expectation that the minute I left the house, he would drive down and grab a bottle of booze, and sneak it like he usually does.

But, I can't be bothered to try to find out.

Not a darn thing I can do about it anyway.

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Carrie



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I wonder if it would help to start with an online meeting from this site first?  Then if you find yourself overwhelmed, angry, or too emotional, you can just step away from the computer, pull the plug, or whatever, no harm done. Or just read every other line, or view the screen through colored paper, or whatever gives you distance.

What you will find, at 99% of meetings, is a group of people who have way more in common than they have dividing them.  There are very religious people (of many religions) and atheists, conformists and individualists, right-wingers, left-wingers, middle-of-the-roaders and don't-care-at-all-ers, the potty-mouthed and the prim, and all the variety of humanity there is - because we all share something more fundamental: the need for support and understanding, the experience of loving an alcoholic, the pain and the fear, the hope, and the determination to get well.  What we share is so much more important than the details in which we differ.

As the saying is, "Don't leave before the miracle happens."

I hope you'll keep coming back.  There are wonderful things in store - I can vouch for that from my experience.



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I wish I could say that you wont encounter some religious folks. I also know that some person is going to eventually use that "Oh you just haven't met true Christians" down the line. Try hard to keep an open mind. Those folks are not evil and I guess to a degree they have a point. Most Christians are not evil, but that doesn't mean you need to buy into Christianity. So I would work on tolerance there. It's all about developing some form of faith so you have something to derive hope and a constant source to be able to symbolically "hand over" you problems when you realize you have no control. People in all 12 step programs know this, but some do seem to forget they are not in church at times. That doesn't need to be your problem though. The other things....well, I can see you working through them slowly. It's okay to bust out crying in meetings...even as a man (I am one and have done it). Probably you will be okay with not scamming on women but you can't control your thoughts. You are human. If eventually you are so enticed...maybe that will be a sign to move on from the marriage. Who knows? That's in the future and it wouldn't be the worst thing ever. It's not like you have a pre-planned agenda to go in to the meeting and sex up all the troubled ladies. Just you having awareness puts you ahead of the game in that area.

You do have great awareness. Hopefully when you put yourself out there in meetings, people will respect where you are coming from and not try and sell you anything you aren't ready for. If you are uncomfortable in a meeting, find another one that works for you.

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I found that when the pain of the anger, resentment, self-pity and fear became strong enough and I had no place else to go, Al-Anon meetings, and members opened their doors and hearts and allowed me to walk in--- defects and all.

They suggested that I take what I liked and leave the rest. I was also made comfortable by the suggestions that the meetings were conducted based on the principles of the Traditions and the Steps and that no one would tell me what to do or what to believe. That I was simply asked to respect other members, keep an open mind and heart and keep coming back. This I did and I'm so grateful.

I attended meetings for over a year before I spoke, but I did listen to learn and kept an open mind on all that I heard. My higher power was the group and the philosophy of the program and that worked well.

 

I must note, that I had my own set of issues prior to being married to an alcoholic, and these are the issues that I needed to address by attending Al-Anon meetings. My making myself invisible, denying my reality, manipulating and people pleasing to get what I wanted, becoming angry, resentful, blaming, criticizing others, and reacting  with anxiety and fear are all issues that are part of who I was before I connected with this disease. I needed Al-Anon many, many years earlier



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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


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What have you got to lose? Nothing? I lost my scapegoat, the excuse to hide behind the alcoholic and not take part in life. I lost my worn out roles, victim, martyr, controller, fixer. I had to stop my pretence and self righteousness. It's a big ask. Are you ready?



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THANK YOU ALL!!
More! more! Please! I'm tearing up already. It all sounds too good to be true, which tends to bolster my skepticism, but that's just my naturally resistant nature. I'm not intransigent, so please continue.

I'm not a "club" or "group" personality. I've never experienced a gathering of inclusive and non-judgmental people in my 49 years. I can't imagine it.
I've found all groups and clubs that I've encountered to exist for exactly the opposite purpose.

I'm so starved for love and caring that I feel like I might blow away.

I am aware that I have issues that predate my marriage to the AW, but I felt I was, at the least, taking inventory and addressing them until the insanity blindsided me and compounded them all. I'm not blameless by any stretch of the imagination and I feel duped, stupid, and guilty.  I pride myself on my education and perceived intellect, and the feeling of shame at my ignorance of how to handle the situation has left me questioning everything I ever thought I knew.

As the topic says, I'm very stubborn, but I'm here.  Please, more.

Still almostThere and will be for a while.  If you don't give up, I won't either.



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~*Service Worker*~

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When I let go of my tightly held very old ideas I got freedom and now my ideas and thoughts are based mostly on reality. Letting go sets you free.

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Hi Almost There. The 11th tradition states that our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion. For me this means that if I walk the walk, using Al-Anon principles above personalities, people will be attracted to the principles and philosophy by which I live and that speaks louder than words

I have always felt that nobody could have talked me into attending Al-Anon. I too had attended a few meetings and felt that I wasn't a Joiner did not like groups and left. I was told even then." to keep coming back", and that nobody could or would force me to attend NOR WOULD THEY follow after me trying to force a belief on me. This is because Al-Anon is a spiritual program and we arrive and stay in the rooms of Al-Anon , only when we are ready and not a moment before.

I have found this to be very true after trying unsuccessfully to promote this program to my relatives and friends.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


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el-cee
Thank you. I appreciate your comments.
Knowing and doing are 2 different things.
It's the concreteness of personal experience that seems to have the greatest effect on me.
I'm not very good with the abstract in this realm.

I think this may be the thing most newbies have to overcome.
I tell my son all the time that you have to learn music theory so that you can forget it and emote freely (let go!).
I'm just beginning the theory part of this.



-- Edited by almostThere on Monday 25th of May 2015 09:17:48 AM

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Hi Betty. Thank You for your comment.

That sounds encouraging. It still sounds so foreign to me in my experience, but I'm not doubting your sincerity.

Just to make sure I'm clear, I'm not throwing down the gauntlet or asking anyone to sell me on the idea.
I'm not in denial, nor do I think I don't need help.
I'm just looking to prepare myself for some of the issues that I know I'll face by listening to how others have dealt with similar issues, and your posts are helpful!

I'm hoping to increase my chances for success, not find a reason not to go.

That being said, I still have excuses. But I recognize them as such.

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If I may, almost there, probably one of the greatest gifts I have received from al-anon is finding out that I get much better results from life when i don't plan out everything in my head and try to pre-determine how it is going to play out.
That was pretty much all I did before; think out and plan what was going to happen, and what she would say and what he would say and what they would think and what I would say and then they would do this but they would probably think that and I would....and then talk myself out of doing anything at all so I could stay home and have nothing change!!

I think of those days as "back when I thought I could mind control the universe". And I am a much happier person since starting to learn to let go of outcomes, let go of responsibility for what anyone else says or does and just do one right thing after the other. I bet if you try to stop analysing how meetings will be and just go with an open mind you will be pleased and surprised. If you don't enjoy the first one it's OK, they don't lock the doors or chain you to a seat or anything, you are free to leave. I was super trepidatious about going to meetings and I found a lot of excuses to avoid it until one day I didn't and learned there was nothing to fear and a lot to gain.

As to reciting a few words of prayer during the meeting, you don't have to say them, I am not a religious person but I see value in the particular words used in the meetings and I also know that it gives comfort to some other members that are religious and that's quite OK with me; the words mean something to me and another thing perhaps to them and that's hunky dory because what I think, feel and believe is not their business unless I want to share it and what they think, feel and believe is not my business either! I don't need to worry about whether they believe in a certain God or ideology and it's even less common in al-anon than in every day life for someone to push religion on you to be honest because it's contrary to the whole program to do so.

Anyway I thought the suggestion about checking out online meetings here and getting an idea of the vibe was a good one, if you are't ready to take the plunge and go f2f just yet.


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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)



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Very helpful mismeliss. Thank You.
Although I consider myself to be open-minded (I'm sure everyone does!) I will admit to having a tightly-clamped mind when it comes to religion.
That's been my primary excuse and is one of the strongest reasons I started this thread.

Also I do have a penchant for over-analyzing and planning. Living with alcoholism has made it worse. It's almost a game to see if I can predict the future, and, yes, I do realize that most of the time it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Your point is well taken. I can assuredly predict the future if I do nothing.

I like everyone's notion that allowing others to engage in their religion is an act of kindness. I miss being kind. I used to be; but after being told how mean I am over and over for objecting to irresponsibility, defending myself against invented misdeeds, and daring to point out that my life-partner is an addict, my anger has suppressed my kindness.

I will definitely take that notion with me when I go.

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I can so understand about meetings. I am not a meeting person and avoid joining any group that has to have regular meetings. Usually find them a huge waste of my time.

I am also a person who does not 'do' organized religion. Been there, done that and found it was just too constricted and rule/blame ridden for my beliefs. While I do believe that there is an energy source from which we sprang, I do not believe in God as he/she is depicted in the bible. That being said, I really envy those who have a strong belief and I know some wonderful, caring Christians. So it does not bother me to join in if it helps their journey and no one has ever really pressured me at al anon meetings.

What I did need, and got, from al anon was people who really listened, who really understood, who were non-judgemental and who had walked in my shoes. I got some tools, I got reassurance that I was not paranoid and had a reason to resent alcoholic behavior.

Don't quite get your need to express yourself with I guess you would call it vulgar language. My husband certainly knows the words but never uses them in my presence or in a meeting with other women. I am sure he uses them when he is with the guys but you can control that factor in order not to offend others.

However, if you live and work alone except for being with your alcoholic partner, then you need to get out and interact with others. Otherwise you are stuck in the same loop of thinking and feeling and you will never see an out. Sometimes it is just one little sentence someone utters at group that makes you start to reexamine your thinking.

And as someone above says, What do you have to lose?" Go with an open mind and see what happens.

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Thank you for acknowledging that you found some help in my words. I appreciate that and I am very glad to be of service.

My heart really went out to you in regard to this post, also. Speaking only for myself, I have found that the times I have been as angry and reactive as you describe, it was masking a deep pain that felt like it couldn't be healed. When someone approached me with a topic that garnered the reaction that you are describing, it was (subconsciously) as if they were coming toward a gaping wound of mine with a hot poker. I am touched and encouraged that you allowed yourself to get tearful reading the loving responses. Sweetie, you can cry. You can cry a lot. I have been -- after recognizing I had so much hidden pain and staying in my head (analyzing, planning, etc) was like a hopeless band-aid for my wounds of sadness.

You have countless shoulders here and I just know you will at a face to face as well. Nothing you do there won't have been seen (and probably experienced) before. XO

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Peace comes from within.  Do not seek it from without.  Buddha



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Almost There,
You are not alone in "missing being kind". I was a single and successful woman, parent of three, when my current AH came into my life. I was happy and thought I would never get married again. I had been single for 17 years. I knew how to do be alone, I had my group of friends, and my kids were still living at home (eldest in college and youngest in high school, and my middle one suffers from a genetic intellectual disability, and cannot live on her own ). Our lives were really full and busy, and we were happy. I had many friends and laughed a lot.

Then this gorgeous man came along. He was really, really into me, and at first, did everything right. He swept me off my feet, and we laughed and had a lot of fun together, but I guess I skipped over the fact that whenever he came over, he had TWO bottles of expensive wine. I did not notice that it was him drinking all but two glasses, and that there was never any left, and I did not recognize that he was drunk, because he was still being nice, and all we were doing was sexing each other like rabbits.

He worked out of town a lot, and so the fact is, I did not know him well, when we got married after only one year, but trust me, it was still the glitter stage, and he was still nice to me when he was drunk.

There was still a lot of kindness, and a lot of joy, even though I was seeing that he was drunk nearly every night. But I thought he would stop if I asked him to.

Now, I have a difficult time being kind to him, even when he is not drunk. Even when he is being sweet and helpful. When he is trying to make me happy, I reject his attempts. That is not how I want to be! I want to go back to the days of enjoying one another, back to the fun times and I do not want to be unkind and resentful. It is not helping me feel any better.

Since I do love him, I want to change. He is allegedly trying to change (he has been to two AA meetings and CLAIMS he is no longer drinking-5 days or so sober), but that can not be my issue.





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Carrie



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deacon

Thank you for your response. That's encouraging. Understanding is probably the first aid that I seek.
I'm so tired of being manipulated into feeling crazy by crazy people and then retaliating by trying to manipulate them into recognizing that they are delusional.
It's such a pointless waste of energy and spirit.

I can understand that the language thing is difficult for you to understand.
A part of it may be gender, to which you alluded, but the rest is a part of a hard reaction to my upbringing.
When you get pummeled daily as a child and adolescent, you learn to push back - HARD.
I was just coming to terms with the idea that everyone in the world was not out to injure me when I married the AW.
It set me back to square one.

Also, I have a degree in literature and have found that punctuating well formed language and reasonably correct grammar with a side of "street cred" really takes someone off their feet.
It's all a defense mechanism.
I have this notion that people who choose to take offense at the language aren't listening to the message.
They are looking for an excuse not to listen and trying to find reasons to be offended.
It's a test of sorts that gauges how invested someone is in listening to my message.

I'm not saying this notion is correct or proper, only explaining the reasoning behind it.

I feel this way about people who assume that southern or urban accents and dialects render a message valueless.
I can curb it in most situations, and will try to, but when it comes to the expression of anger, it will be very hard.
When I go, I'll probably just listen for a while and take my cues from others in the group.

As far as getting out into the world, it's difficult as someone who's hobby is music.
There are bars and bands full of alcoholics and drug abusers, or there are religious gatherings or non-secular bands and shows.
One I'm trying to avoid and the other I don't enjoy.

I do fear that I'm so needy that I'll be trying to use the group as a source for new friends only to find there is no other real connection.
But that's over analyzing isn't it?!



-- Edited by almostThere on Monday 25th of May 2015 12:34:18 PM

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spookyMulder

So sweet! What a doll. You remind me of my sister. She has dogs and an AW too! They seem to manage ok. Thank you for your kindness. Your kharma bank must be overflowing.

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Saucy

Thank you! Amazing what we've chosen to ignore isn't it. It's like I was temporarily blinded to the color red.
I hope he follows through but moreover, I hope you do. Kindness and joy are distant memories for me.
I hope you can resurrect them.

My situation is that I no longer want to be with her at all, but our finances are in such a shambles that I don't see any other way.
Also, I still have the last of four at home - age 15. I am trying to keep the rug from getting pulled out from under him.
He knows what is up. He knows that when he goes, the house and marriage go too, but I make sure to tell him that his mother isn't bad, but simply an addict and that he should love her all the same.
I also make sure to tell him that I'm to blame for the things I have done in reaction to the insanity.

He has seen addiction in other family members also, and understands that she has to go it alone to find her own way.
I think he should get counseling, although there has been no acting out of any kind and he seems very grounded.
But I can't imagine what would happen if I told the AW that I thought he needed it.
She will ask "why?" when he shows no signs of struggle, and if I answer "because of your addiction!" then all hell will break loose and I'll be accused of "trying to turn the kids against her" (something I have never done and will never do).

Thank you for your kindness! I'm rooting for you!

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Language doesn't need to be an issue.
A lot of folks in al-anon have been bullied and abused physically and emotionally, and sworn at, called names; knowing that using certain words is likely to be triggering and upsetting for people is enough to remind me to keep my language "respectable" in meetings and online al-anon discussions. Like you I thoroughly enjoy language and swear up a storm in arenas where it is appropriate. But it's not hard to not do it either.

It took me a long time to realise that I didn't need to "project a persona" in al-anon. I thought I had to make everyone laugh all the time and I also needed to be thought of as clever and different.

But in very much the same way that al-anon helped me to realise that people need to be who they ARE and not who I want to make them be in my mind, I also needed to give myself a chance to be who I am and not who I was trying to make myself be...does that make any sense? It was cool, actually, kind of like meeting myself for the first time and discovering that I was OK without the personas. I am enough. So are you.







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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)



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You're right mismeliss.

I'm caught in a cycle of "mutual disrespect".
I need to separate who I am from what I do and what I feel.
If I ask myself "Who am I?", the first answer is "I am an angry person."
That's my fear. That's my perception. That's my identity at this time.
That's what I will have a hard time not projecting in a manner that is disrespectful to the group.
Not to say that I can't, but as of now, when it flies, it flies.

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(((HUG))) You need a good hard hug, my friend! So consider yourself hugged, and do not apologize for your anger.

It WILL leave you, for a few fleeting hours, at least. Just by talking right here.

And then, when you are ready, you can take more steps toward learning about Al-Anon. I am finally ready, and trying to learn. I hope, being a newbie, that I am not over-posting since I really have no idea what I am talking about.

But, I totally relate to you.

I also wonder about taking your son with you to one of the meetings at some point? I wonder if the meetings are only for adults? Maybe there are other type of meetings for kids?

I have no idea what the thoughts are with Al Anon and kids, I am new at this.



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Carrie



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There is Ala-teen for kids, if down the line that looks like a good option.

Take good care of yourself!



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Thanks Carrie and Mattie.

I haven't even gone to a meeting yet, so I don't know what might happen. As far as my son, after I get entrenched, I'll approach him. I'll let him know he can go in there and get things off his chest about her AND me! If he's interested at all, that might do it.

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Well, there is a meeting tonight. It's a 10 minute walk. There are only 4 groups in this town.

This particular meeting is at the hospital where my AW works as a psych professional. Yes, that's right. She's a psychiatric nurse case manager.

So, if I go, there is a fair chance she will be exposed at her work place. If not tonight, then eventually.

They of course would not know it was her that prompted me to go, but they might figure it out after a while.

Part of me says "too bad" this isn't about her.

Another part worries that if she figures it out, it will start WWIII because I will be accused of going there simply to be vindictive. (She is still DEEP in denial).

Still another part says I should pick another. The next is Wednesday and then there are 2 on Friday.

I'm ready to get started. Today.

Not sure what I will do, but thinking through it, the fallout probably won't be worth it.

I'll probably have to hold out until Wednesday and hope I haven't changed my mind.

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They spoke about that in the meeting I went to. They talked about how we must respect one another enough to keep what is said between us, because only then, will we feel free to share.

I really believe every person there is sincere, and has enough integrity to follow that rule.

You could be there at an AL ANON meeting for many reasons, a friend, a relative, but I do not believe it will be shared.

Now, the home fallout, I cannot speak to that. My husband is aware that I speak about him, and how his alcoholism is hurtful. I know that must be hard for him, it has to be. It has to be hurtful, because I truly believe he does not intentionally hurt me. He is ill and needs to deal with it, and I am sorry if he does not care for the path that I am choosing.

But he gets to decide things in this marriage far too much for my liking, and therefore, I will not allow him to get to decide if I am going to get help for myself.

I just do not want to cover his "dirty little secret" at my own expense if that makes any sense at all. But, that is just me, and I have to admit, I usually "engage" in arguments (while he is drunk) and am far too combative for my own good sometimes.

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You can always go and not say much - that's often the case at our first meeting.

Many of us eventually find that the A does give us push-back about going to meetings.  Because the alcoholism will do anything, anything, to keep itself going, and it sees any change as a threat.  And whenever people change, the people around them who are invested in the old ways try a huge "Change Back!" campaign.  It is out of fear, and it's not amenable to reassurance.  They know they're on shaky ground with their addiction - they know it causes problems - and they've built a fragile structure of denial which they're always vigilant to defend.  So when we change, they will try stuff to see if they can get us to change back.  Since A's are good at being out of control and having extreme reactions, anger and guilt and manipulation are often their tools of choice.  They act like the world is going to end.  In other words, as if their addiction is threatened.  Which is not actually the case, oddly enough.

The great thing is that Al-Anon gives us the tools to let the anger, guilt and manipulation slide off, and to take care of ourselves, and to do what's right for us.  In time the A's see that Al-Anon is not all about controlling them, not at all.  Some of them even come to welcome it because we are no longer on their case and trying fruitlessly to control them.  Some of them welcome it because they see we're getting healthier.  Some of them even come to welcome it because they're inspired to get healthier themselves.

Take good care of yourself!



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Thanks Carrie and Mattie.

It's not that I'm worried about AW getting angry at me for going to a meeting.
She'll just laugh at that because she is so in denial.

I'm not concerned about the others attending the meeting. They can blab all they want.

It's more the fact that the people who work there will see me entering and exiting the meeting.

If you don't think hospital staff talk about the people they see going in and out, you're mistaken.
I'm not saying they talk about it outside the workplace, but they sure discuss it within the workplace and this is part of her workplace.

She'll go crazy because I'm going to THAT meeting and will declare it a deliberate attempt to sabotage her job.

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I cried my face off at my first meeting. Let me put this in perspective: I do not cry in public. Not at my beloved father's funeral, not during a wretched divorce, never. But the relief I felt in hearing that there were other people who understood what I am going through was what led to the tears. They hugged me and told me they loved me and gave me such a sense of hope. I'm also not much on the religion, but I had the gift of desperation. Meaning, I was in so much pain I would try anything. My HP isn't the stern catholic God I was taught growing up; he is loving and forgiving and wants me to be happy. Give it a try-- maybe you could try an out of town meeting first?

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Thanks Irish7

Yeah, you sound like me. I'm there. I can feel it coming. The floodgate will open.

There are 3 other groups in town. I'm not worried about the other people in the meeting, or necessarily even in town.

I wouldn't really even care if her workplace did find out. My concern is the appearance that I'm TRYING to out her by going to this particular place.

I guess I'll wait until Wednesday, but I've been kicking this around for 6 months, just joined this board yesterday and all the support has prepared my to make that move and I want to.

Now I'm faced with this dilemma and am questioning myself as to whether this is just another excuse.

The meeting is in a combined in/out patient drug treatment facility that is adjacent to the unit that she works on, and the 2 work closely together.

I might be able to slip in and slip out unnoticed. Maybe this time, maybe next time. But I'm hard to miss. I stick out like a sore thumb around here.

Wait **idea** I have a step-daughter that is in recovery and everyone knows it because my A blabs everyone's private business so no one will focus on her.

If my A gets nervous, she can just say I was there because of the step-daughter.

Problem solved. Meeting in 40 minutes. I'll just have to go for an evening walk!

Getting really nervous now. No more excuses.

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I certainly do know about the compulsion to have things all figured out. I have always tried to keep everything up in my head, where I try to control everything and I know that it became a coping mechanism as a kid, when I was surrounded by addict/alcoholic/out of control adults. Just last month a friend invited me to come be a student in her martial arts class, since I was just too devastated to teach my own regular class. I walked into the dojo (practice space) and suddenly dropped to the floor sobbing. I curled up and bawled for an hour straight. It was like my life crawled before my eyes and I cried the tears for all the times I held them in because someone else needed "more support" was "sadder than me" -- whether my mom, dad, cruel friends, kind friends, lovers, wives, students... I had never cried like that ever -- not my entire life. Snot, spit, tears, bloody nose, splotchy face, animal noises... It was the best thing I ever did for myself. A friend held me in the floor the whole time and the other students held the class, patiently checking on me and stopping instruction because they knew it was a big deal. They knew I was a sensei and strong person, and I think it was good for them to see me vulnerable like that. I know now it was the best thing I have ever done. I finally broke through that "intellectually based" coping mechanism. It doesn't work for me any more.

Sending love, my brother.

Dawn

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Thanks Spooky. That sounds so painful, yet so liberating. I don't feel strong at all. And I don't have anyone. Don't mean to sound so pitiful, but it's the truth.

Staring at the clock. Out the door in 6 minutes. Don't know where it will lead, but it's a step away from where I am now. And all of you here have played a part.

Already crying.

Thank You!!!



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(((HUG))) One more hug before you go.

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Carrie



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Please do let us know how it goes. Proud of you for taking such a big step!

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I hope you went to the meeting. ((((hugs))))

Thank you for your words. I left my AH about 3 weeks ago with my 17 year old (now 18) daughter. The final straw was how awful he was to her. She's his step-daughter.

Your words have given form to the nebulous angst inside me..the random anger...the loneliness... I'm struggling to find a voice in the confusion of it all. Today, I felt like being holed up at my temporary refuge (lovingly referred to as my "park bench") was getting to be too much, and went online looking for somewhere to attend an online meeting and found this site. I'm not ready to sit face to face with anyone, but recognize that sitting alone is stagnant and I need growth to propel me through the "leaving him" phase.

I fought with myself for about 2 years. The voice in my head sounds like how you write! I'm not ready to talk but I am ready to listen. I know I at least need to show up, and i suits me to do it from a remote location

FWIW, I'm proud of you for having the 'nads to physically go! I wish you a powerful first meeting!

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