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I have been on this site reading stuff and wonder if Alanon can really help me if I am not sure that I believe in God or a higher power. I am not a religious person and tho I would like to be able to believe in God I have never been able to fully do that. I am good with everything except the trust the higher power thing. How do you trust something that you have trouble believing in? How do you make yourself believe something just because other people believe it? This is the problem I have had with these kinds of programs in the past. I don't know that there is anything else out there, but don't know if this is for me, but don't know what to do if it isn't. I've got to do something or I'm going to loose my mind!
Jukuvee alanon sugests that we believe in a Power Greater than ourselves In the beginning of my alanon journey I used the alanon program as that Power Greater than myself.
It sure was then and is to this day. It has restored me to sanity and given me principles to live by.
When I started I was most comfortable with Mother Nature being my higher power. I know I respect the power of electricity too. Now I know it doesn't matter what the HP is as long as you are not the most powerful thing in your universe.
Do you believe in fate, that there is a destiny we all possess that determines our place here on earth? By place I mean our role/reason for all being here, to impact on each other's lives?
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"Forgiveness doesn't excuse bad behavior, but it
does prevent bad behavior from destroying your heart". ~ unknown
As a buddhist who is studying to become a Buddhist minister this question has also been one that I have walked around to look at from different angles. In Buddhism, the deep, connected inner self is responsible for our guidance. We don't look to "God" as a separate entity who is moving us like chess pieces. Certainly no offense to my other spiritual brothers and sisters -- I am first to say I don't have the answers and just know what works for me. So, for me, my "higher power" is that deep sense of connection and compassionate responsibility. I suppose mine would be an "inner power" or a' "connecting power" that helps me open my heart like a lotus to the paths that are best for me to tread to in turn strengthen that connection and compassion. I hope this helps. I know it is the biggest obstacle to many people approaching the program. It has been for me, until I found the conceptualization that works for me. I think the larger group understands this challenge when in the literature it mentions a higher power "as we understand him (it)."
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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it from without. Buddha
My HP could well be my own higher consciousness. I don't really know, I just know it's there, it knows MUCH better than my thinking worrying obsessing mind does and following the steps and trusting in this has changed everything for me. When I began I didn't know either; the first couple of steps are about figuring it out. You don't need to make yourself believe anything; I found as I worked through these steps I stopped worrying about defining WHAT my HP was and just accepted that it IS.
AA have athiest meetings and there is plenty of literature on the topic if you are interested in some different perspectives. There is certainly no one right way to have faith here.
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If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)
I was raised with organized religion, and while I wasn't thrilled with the whole effort as a young person, have come to be very grateful for the concepts entrenched in my brain.
Once I began recovery, my concepts and beliefs changed dramatically about the spiritual aspect of this program, and while I do refer to my HP as God, I think that's just a byproduct of my upbringing.
While I don't consider myself religious, I certainly do consider myself spiritual. My HP is in me, with me, around me and ever present to guide me. I've also heard of folks using the group, the book, the slogans - anything that leads you to doing the 'next right thing' can be considered a HP. When I snap or react, I have a physical and emotional response that feels 'wrong'. For me, this is my HP suggesting I look at what happened and right any wrong necessary.
So - there is no need to believe in God to thrive in this program. As long as you believe in any power greater than yourself to help and lead you to a different way of life, you'll do good!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
I have a lovely, lovely rescue dog - her name is Layla.
I rescued her when she was about 2-3 years old. She's medium to large size - about 60-65 lbs and part German Shepherd. She's got the cutest face ever.
When we found her for adoption, she was calm, serene, peaceful and very patient. She was sitting still while all the dogs around her were at the front, begging for attention.
She was not the cutest and I truly wanted a smaller dog. But, as I watched her she had a spirit about her that I was very attracted to and intrigued by.
My son put a leash on her, and they went to walk around a bit. I started speaking to one of the handlers, and she'd been through so much in her short life. She's been thrown away - literally - in a trash can. She survived that and has the scars and markings of chains on her feet and beatings on her nose.
They nursed her back to health and took her to a local prison for obedience training. She loved being there, learned a great deal and showed incredible strength and intelligence.
We found her in April (don't recall what year) and she'd been available for adoption since August/September the year before. So, this lovely, quiet, gentle spirit had been shown for 8 months and had never been selected. Others were also looking for a smaller dog and often a puppy vs. adult dog.
So, my son and the dog came back and he said that she was the one. I agreed and we brought her home.
She came in and sat. She never barked, whined, cried, begged - just waited patiently for what comes next.
She already knew how to sit, lay, shake, etc. and was potty-trained.
BEST DOG EVER......and I've had many dogs over the years.
She loves long walks, she loves all people, other dogs, etc. Everyone loves her - she is just the sweetest thing ever. She's never snarled at another dog or person - she's just the picture of serenity and peace. So much so that my writing her doesn't do her justice.
She's my idle and my confident. I don't believe she and I met by accident. She has been exactly what I needed so many times during my journey - I can't even count the times or ways. She lives life moment to moment and deals with any/all obstacles with grace and dignity. She's not concerned about what happens next as she's so in the moment.
She has been my HP at times. She has certainly been a great best friend. She is looking at me right now wanting to go for a walk. She's happy to do that or not - she's such a gift.
My HP gives me exactly what I need when I am open and receptive. We are headed out for a walk to start our day. Make it a great day all!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Yes. I firmly believe that. It was for me. The God of your own understanding, not necessarily a religious God. Just something bigger than you because if you dont have that the your it. Your God really and the shortcomings that keep you in misery continue to grow. Before Alanon i was an athiest, whatever that really is and i was the highest power in my life, or so i thought and this led me to believe all sorts of false beliefs. I had a large ego but little self esteem. the fixer, rescuer, martyr, victim all rolled into one person, me. I suggest get yourself a higher power and the journey will begin. Keep a closed mind and find a barrier and your not ready for the journey.
Iamhere...I loved your description. I have an animal sanctuary where I specialize in special needs animals. So many times they have come from the most horrendous experiences imaginable. One of the dogs was thrown out of a moving car, landed on his face and lost all his teeth, his eye, and part of his face. But he is a model of contentment. All my special needs animals show me (a special needs person) that "higher power" is just the beingness of life. Life finds a way. It connects and persists. XO
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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it from without. Buddha
Jukuvee, glad you are looking into Alanon as a resource and sincerely hope you keep coming back.
When I first became acquainted with Alanon, I too had a similar concern. I was raised with a strong Christian God figure and oppressive religious environment, and after walking away from both years ago was comfortable and confident in my decision. I saw in Alanon some very promising and helpful concepts, yet was concerned when I observed many in my first few meetings describe their Higher Power or God in Christian terms. If this was a requirement, it would not be the place for me.
I was soon comforted, however, with the expression in Step 3, of turning our life and will over to God 'as we understood him', and the references in Alanon literature ensuring that religion is not to be discussed; the focus is on the principals and tools of recovery, many of which are practical tools that do not require a higher power to provide some utility.
Attending Alanon meetings and reading the about the concepts daily in the the daily readers (Courage to Change, One Day at a Time, Hope for Today) brought me relief immediately as I learned that I was responsible only for my own behavior and recovery, not the alcoholic's. This despite the fact that I retained my views as an Atheist, do not believe in fate, ultimate plan, or any cosmic intervention in human lives. As the program encourages, I merely took what made sense to me at the time and provided much needed relief and direction, and left the rest. I was yet unsure how I was going to address the issue of God or Higher Power, but I did not let that stop me from using the practical suggestions, slogans, and even the Serenity Prayer (I left out the first word, God, and recited the rest. It still is my Go To phrase).
I attended several meetings a week, read daily from the readers, and began working the steps. When I reached #3, I read everything I could find in the Conference Approved Literature, meditated and pondered on the topic for four months. I worked to identify a concept I was comfortable with, that I could interchange with the word God that I found in the literature and heard from other members in meetings. During that time, I continued to receive incredible utility and strength from the program, and was dealing with my situation dramatically better than without the program.
Ultimately, I identified a Higher Power as it made sense to ME, as the program encourages us to do. I have come to realize that each of us hold a different view of God, even if we share the same religion or faith. We customize it slightly in compensatory or complimentary ways to match what we need or feel. The most important thing, perhaps the only thing really, is that it works for us, that our concept of a HP fortifies our efforts to find comfort, strength and hope...
For some, that occurs with the existing God concept of the religion of their experience, and that is awesome. For some of us, it means expanding our journey of recovery to explore our worldview as it relates to spiritual guidance. The strength of the program allows all of us, despite our backgrounds, to come together and share our experience, what we have found that gives us strength, and our hope for continued growth.
I share my experience because I have found such incredible strength and hope in the program that I wish for everyone who has been affected by alcoholism, despite any differences of beliefs, to give it a shot...Please, keep coming back
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Paul
"...when we try to control others, we lose the ability to manage our own lives." - Paths to Recovery
I'm late to the party but I wanted to share that I am not religious. I am spiritual. But Al-anon really helps me. My husband who is atheist is struggling but he found a higher power in the meetings.
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-- ladybug
We come to love not by finding a perfect person, but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.
I learned in early program that the concept of a power greater than myself was to separate me from the personal control I exercised while living in the disease which caused me so much insanity. Coming to admit that I was powerless left me fearful and confused because while I knew I was crazy I also thought I was responsible to and for the solution to my problems. I was dumb as a stick as I didn't even know what the problem was how to say much less spell alcoholism and what I was in Al-Anon for however I do know that I found the front door of Al-Anon by divine intervention...how did I know that? I called help in Emotional problems first and then the suicide prevention center both of which were not available to speak with me. My finger went from S section of the white pages index to the A section and I called and found someone who would then talk with me. The event is even more involved however that is what happened. I had problems with the "God" and "religious" aspect of the program also as there were so many members with various believes and so many that wanted to enforce their beliefs into the meeting protocols including what was the gender of God and what was God's real name. If I had not understood my own insanity I would not have understood the insanity there. I let the issue drop for me and did not get involved because I didn't need to. My own perception of a God of my understanding was cloudy yet I came to trust that if there was one and one that wanted a relationship then that HP would come part way for me. I was right my HP did and I trusted my mind, body, spirit and emotions over to it and the sponsors it help put me in contact with.
One of my sponsor taught me a perception that I have never let go of especially in matters of making choices for myself. Using the Higher Power concept I use to say when asked if I had one, "I cannot deal with that right now". My sponsor taught me to be honest in my thought and change the response from cannot to will not. I will not deal with that now was honest and it spoke of and to my fears, my egotistical controls, my lack of faith and trust that it would do me any good. I can and could and do have faith, hope and trust that my Higher Power is real and walks with me even now as I share this. This share comes from within the relationship and not my own personal ego and false pride. You're getting to hear from my HP thru my participation in MIP our miracle in progress. The name of my HP? does it even matter to anyone else but myself? I think not.
The program works when you work it...if you don't, it won't. Great post...keep coming back
Al-anon doesn't have a requirement of us all having the same HP, religion or Spirituality. All it requires is to find something greater than yourself and once you are able to hand things over and see that things get better over time in al-anon it becomes easier to keep believing and becoming freer. Sending you love and support on your journey!
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Sending you love and support on your journey always! BreakingFree
Al-Anon/Alateen Family Group Headquarters, Inc. 800-344-2666
" Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."
"Serenity is when your body and mind are in the same place."
BEFORE I came to this board, around 6 months ago, when I started to accept the fact that I needed help, I started trying to figure out how I was going to reconcile the GOD issue and define a HIGHER POWER.
I've written at length in the last couple of days about the anger and rage I have associated with the very words GOD and HIGHER POWER.
So when I started exploring the program, I changed a few things in the literature to suit me that I hoped would solve the problem.
I changed "power greater than myself" to "power outside or apart from myself". I didn't like "higher power" because I thought of myself loosely as an atheist/humanist. We are God in that each of us defines God for ourselves regardless of whether we participate in organized religion or not.
aside: I used to feign Christianity when talking to my father in his waning years to try to appease him so he wouldn't be tortured that his son was going to HELL. We were talking about something and in an off-the-cuff manner I said "You know, I'm gonna ask God about that when I get up there!" He made that kind of "hhpprrrmmpphh", snorting sound, like a horse, that he use to make when he thought something was absurd and he said, "And you know what he'll say"??!! and tilted his head way back so he could stare down his nose at me, and in a deep, authoritative, smart-@&% voice declared, "He'll say 'WHY DO YOU NEED TO KNOW'"???!! I was dumbfounded that I could still be dumbfounded by this man after 40-sump'n years and I thought, as I had before but had never had the courage to ask him, "Holy S-BOMB, Man, Why is your God such a #&@$*&???!!!"
Problem solved. I would find the strength within myself - with the help and support of others - to rise above this illness. There will be no HIGHER POWER, only an EXTERNAL POWER. It be chill like dat. I laugh at this notion now, but at the time it made it possible for me to not reject the program outright.
I spent the next 6 months sinking deeper and deeper to my knees trying different hats on the word GOD.
I can't even tell you how many disguises I tried to put on the freakin' word.
Nature Camouflage, Bruce Willis from the 1st Die Hard, Marcelis Wallace, Weezy from the Jefferson's, Bug's Bunny, Both Hepburn and Tracy at the same time, The Trans Am from Smokie and the Bandit, Burt Reynolds Mustache, Archie, Peyton AND Eli Manning, "The Forest for the Trees", Tinky Winky from the TeleTubbies, 50's Elvis, Army Elvis, Elvis with his DEA Badge, Fat Puffy Elvis, Elvis Costello, Abbott and Costello, Ambrosia with those little Marshmallows, A Vente Mocha Latte with Cream, Glenda - The Good Witch of the North, The Lollipop Guild, The Lullaby League, The Guns of Navarone, A miraculous Beatles Reunion, Led Zeppelin circa 1979, A Bugatti with the brain of KIT from Knight Rider, Oprah on her Birthday, and of course, Chuck Norris (He almost got it done).
Man, It didn't matter. GOD had been defined for me when I was three.
He was a big ol' white guy in white robes, a long beard and looked to be about 100 years older than Jesus, and when his kids acted up he threatened to lock 'em in the basement - FOREVER!EVER!EVER!EVER!
My father forced his god on me, and he was an angry, vengeful god, without a trace of compassion, care, warmth, or sympathy. He was a broken promise and was no where to be found when I needed help. Matter of fact I don't remember ever seeing him. Yet somehow in my mind he remained infinite. An Omnipresent void. And nothing I could come up with could disguise it. Not even Chuck Norris.
So how was suffering, damaged me going to come up with something from my broken life that would eclipse and overtake this void simply with a declaration? I couldn't. Nothing could hide the infinite absence of the God I've never met.
Of course, I couldn't have expressed this then. I could not wrap my head around what was happening to me. Why could other people just declare a God? If they didn't believe in God, how could they come up with something big enough to overwhelm their disbelief?
Finally, I came here.
For the first time in my life, I asked a question about God and something good happened. God showed up.
These are all the characteristics that I've always heard attributed to God but I had never experienced and without any effort I started being able to feel something that I could label God and call upon. With God as I Understand Her finally having meaning, I realized I WANTED a HIGHER POWER!
Here's how I am working it now. My Higher Power is the Self I am striving to be. Someone who has the strength and knowledge to exhibit all the above characteristics both to himself and others. When I feel I am slipping, the first thing I do is check in with the Higher Power and see if he has a better way. But the way I'm working it at the moment, my Higher Power can fall short. He's a work in progress. So at that time, I turn to God as I Understand Her.
hotrod, spookyMulder, Saucy, pinkchip, irish7, likemyheart, fairlee, BreakingFree, Mattie, Iamhere, el-cee, mismeliss, glad, Biglieboo, John, Dowdy-to-be, Linda, Ginny, Deacon, Ken, Sid and a million more I haven't met yet.
If I don't think I NEED a God, at least now I know I WANT one.
I'm so glad it occurred to me to come back and check this post again. I am overwhelmed by the thoughtfulness of each and every reply and I want you all to know how much I appreciate your words. I am still really struggling with all of this but you people who I don't even know are making me feel not so alone. Thank you.
That's what I mean. Understanding, care, concern, compassion, selflessness, sincerity... Feel it? Good. Now call it God and go on about your business getting healthy. Worry about the rest later. Glad you are here!!!
Oh, and another interesting thing, Jules. There seem to be quite a few musicians here. Funny huh?! Representatives of an industry teeming with atheists and addicts!
And as for God - I'm showing her to you R I G H T N O W.
-- Edited by almostThere on Tuesday 2nd of June 2015 06:07:39 AM
-- Edited by almostThere on Tuesday 2nd of June 2015 06:10:12 AM
Another Al-Anon atheist here... I also struggled a great deal with the higher power thing, and still do from time to time.
My first Higher Power was Buffy The Vampire Slayer. I saw her as the embodiment of important characteristics like strength and compassion, and since I knew she was a fictional character I didn't have to bother pretending I believed she was real!
As I started looking at the later steps, I wasn't sure how to "become entirely ready for Buffy the Vampire Slayer to remove all of my defects of character" - so for that type of thing, my Higher Power was the Al-Anon program itself.
Sometimes I come up with other higher powers, or different ways of looking at existing higher powers, depending on what I need at the time. For example, if I I need to "trust that my sister's Higher Power will look after her", neither Buffy the Vampire Slayer nor the Al-Anon program works for that - so then the Higher Power becomes a combination of the treatment services available to her and her own human resilience.
There are all sorts of higher powers you can have. And there is no need to stop at just one. A higher power is about willingness to accept help and admitting you don't control everything - as long as it fulfills those purposes and helps you move forward in the program, it doesn't matter what it is.
-- Edited by atheos on Friday 5th of June 2015 08:33:52 AM
I've come to determine that for me, an HP is not something you assign, rather something that you recognize. It's an open-mindedness that I've never had regarding "god". It's helping me be more tolerant of others and their respective faiths.
I think the next time someone tries to push their faith on me, it will be easier to simply say "thank you, but I have a faith of my own".
If they ask what it is, I'll say "Anonymism. I'm an Anonymist". If they ask the tenets I'll say, faith in God, order from chaos, peace, kindness and serenity.
If they ask who my god is I'll just say "Exactly!". That should confuse them enough to make them stop being nosy.
And Kenny - just bought my son a new J-BASS. He's killing it!
-- Edited by almostThere on Friday 5th of June 2015 09:32:24 AM
I had to come to the conclusion that there was some other power looking over my life, and my wife's life, when I came to Al Anon. It was some outside force that got me there, and it was from ruins that I was able to rise up and get rid of the insanity. I couldn't do that myself, thorugh relying on myself I had gone down the spiral, I figure something/someone else had to be out there to get me back up.
Keep it very simple just plug into it and believe it can happen to you, say a prayer like God if u are real show me something of u in my life. Then count your many blessings and u will realize God was and is there. Xx
You've got some great responses from some really great people! I love that this program doesn't get hung up on one definition fits all for the higher power. Despite my firm belief in the Christian God, my first higher power was the desire to get out of the mess I was in.
One member - David I think, had a great post about the whole higher power thing - how you would rely on people who've been successful at something for advice on how to be successful yourself. My first stop when researching whether I want to do something is the internet, to read success stories and find out what not to do - garnering wisdom from people who have been there and done that.
as an aside, I am often saddened that the God of my understanding has such a bad reputation - so many have twisted His words and concepts.
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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France
First this is an Awesome Thread :) I'm So Happy to See people that Are Willing to ASK instead of Just Cut and Bail when they are Unsure, so Kudos to you for that... Your Doing it ;)
For Me When I Got here, I Honestly didn't have much Faith in the "God of my Understanding" as a Child... So I Too hit a flat spot, but for me when I Ask, I was told that My F2F Meeting could be My "GOD" and for a while I Rolled with that, When times where stressed I would turn to my Meeting Family, and they would Rise me Above the ICK & ISM, and the More I Came in tune with ME, I Realized that FOR ME... The One Person in my Life I Never Wanted to Let Down was My Grandma! I Lost her when I was 13... Still to this Day, I Very Strongly Miss her, and Look up to her, and I Realized while doing my Inventory in Step 4 that SHE is and Always will be "MY" Higher Power and/or God of My Understanding... This Works for Me...
Also, I'm One that Is Truly in Love with Nature, and When I Need Nurtured I Use Nature as that HP or God, There is Something about being in the Woods with All the Wonders of the World out there, making their Noise that Just Brings me Great Peace, and Hope for the Things to Come for my Future...
I'm Not Sure you Realize Just how Many People You too have Helped By Coming here ;) Good for You! Today this Thread Could be their HP...
I Also Want to Add that I have a Program friend that is Atheist and Just Last Month she Celebrated 31 years in Recovery ;) She said Her HP Can Change Daily at times, and Some days its as Simple as her Meditation being her HP, I have Learned So Much from this Sweet Lady, and there has been times where SHE Was MY HP :)
Part of my recovery was lessening the dependency of the disease in my life and the very strong hold it had making up my dependency. For instance no matter how bad or good things were in our life I always felt assured and safe at night holding on to my alcoholic/addict and would sleep soundly. When the marriage broke irreparably I was left living outside of the home alone and one night found myself trying to count the ceiling tile holes in the dark of the night. Crazy making and when I realized it was I found myself asking a Higher Power to come and laydown next to me and hold me so that I could fall asleep. The HP did exactly as I asked and I never had a problem falling asleep again for lack of missing my alcoholic/addict. Program say it works when you work it. That's true. Keep coming back...by the way after I asked HP to do that I could see and feel it laying next to me and putting its arms around me. walla!! (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 8th of June 2015 12:15:35 PM
? How do you make yourself believe something just because other people believe it? (we learn by experiencing it for ourselves; coming to believe it with our own eyes and ears .. that anything can help heal us as long as we try to keep an open mind and admit we're powerless over people places things .. (includes ourselves) <- that we have thinking we can't change .. only my view ..
only my view ..