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I moved in with my GF 9 months ago and it looks like I have picked another alcoholic AGAIN. Hell, at least this one is kind and generous to me, but it is still affecting our relationship. BTW I am a gay female.
I am Blonde, but not a dumb-ass, as a matter of fact I'm working on my Masters Degree. But please answer this for me so it will validate what I feel.....Is consuming 1.75 liters of vodka in 4 days too much. I'm not good at math however by my calculations that equates to 10 (1.5) shots each day. BTW this is an ongoing thing......Thankyou for your help guys.
-- Edited by Raven_x on Tuesday 12th of May 2015 12:11:21 AM
The way I always defined "too much" was in a different way (although I love math). As a spouse, when I told my husband how much his drinking was impacting our marriage and I asked him to please just ease up, and he chose to ignore that and eventually shift into just lying and hiding the amount he was drinking...then there was a problem. Someone who is not an addict would be more likely to listen, comprehend, and be able to 'cut back' without it being an issue. As a matter of fact, many people who are not addicts regularly monitor what they drink. Most of my friends who drink socially do not have more than 2 drinks in one sitting. There is not a need for more that than...they have relaxed and enjoyed a drink. There is not a need to be wasted. I hope that makes sense.
Agree with sookie. At the least you are talking about someone binging and abusing alcohol and likely it is alcoholism. Now the focus in alanon is what are you going to do?
I also had 2 masters degrees and it didn't stop me from getting with multiple alcoholics and then also degenerating into one myself. I learned that, when it comes to me, I kind of am a dumb***. I need to have meetings, fellowship, a sponsor to run things by, or I tend to muck it up. I'm smart about all kinds of things, but I need help with my life in the program to stay focused. It's better that way and it's okay.
The only two people who can define too much are you and her, and you may have differing opinions on the matter. It sounds like you think it is too much. Is this because it is affecting day-to-day life for you? If it doesn't now, might it in the future?
Does she think it's too much? Would she be willing to cut down? Can she? Can she do it for longer than some set amount of time to "prove" that she can? My experience was once my wife and I started talking about these kinds of problems then she was headed down the alcoholic spiral already.
Thanks guys....Pinkchip you made the statement: "I also had 2 masters degrees and it didn't stop me from getting with multiple alcoholics"......I realize our degrees don't always equate to wise choices. I was making a stab at sarcasm, which is one of my specialties, I suppose one develops it when living with an alcoholic.
Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post. Btw I must be a Dumb### because this is my 3rd alcoholic. The drinking isn't affecting our day to day life as it did previously with other partners I was with, but I do believe she is drinking way to much....well to much for me! And the TOO much drinking brings up dejavu which increases my fight or flight response and my anxiety level peaks at around a 10. (Today she drank 2/3 of a liter of Tequila)
Talking to her doesn't seem to do any good. She drinks less for a while then goes back to her regular amount. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt; her 18 year old daughter moved out in January and they haven't spoken except by text and that hasn't always been pleasant. Plus the daughter graduates high school in 2 days and is then moving 4 hours away. Her daughter has always lived with her and is now a 18 year old know it all and thinks life with dad is going to be so much better. All of this has broken her heart and she has cried so many tears....yes most of them sober.
This amount is more than average for her so I'm willing to be patient because she deserves it and I love her very much. However I have told her and am very serious that I won't live this same life over again. Yeah threats are useless, but this one was for me.
-- Edited by Raven_x on Tuesday 26th of May 2015 02:35:48 PM
I am new at this stuff. So my opinion is not an educated one, take it with a grain of salt.
But 10 shots a day?
Personally, I would be impaired with 2 shots.
My AH was drinking way too much when we were dating, and I closed my eyes to it. We were in the glitter stage and madly in love. I am also educated and a professional person, but that did not stop me from being in denial, and thinking I could change him.
And, back then, his drinking did not bother me, either because I was seeing sparkles or he was.
Well, that crap wore thin. It gets old sitting in a room with a drunk person. I think it must only be fun for other drunk people?
He used to promise to "slow down his drinking". His father told me that only alcoholics make statements like "I need to slow down my drinking". His father has been in recovery for at least 20 years and attends AA meetings at least 3 times per week. My AH's Mom died at 47 years of age from liver damage, because she one of those small (flat shaped) bottles of vodka each day.
Thank-you Saucy for your response; I agree with you, 2 shots is plenty for me. BTW I didn't need and educated opinion, I just needed someone to confirm what I already knew, 10 shots is way too much. Hell this morning she drank 2/3 of a liter of Tequila.
You are most likely right, I assume the glitter clouded my vision while we were in the dating stage and I moved in too soon. I am deeply in love with her, but I love myself too. I'm middle age now and won't let another alcoholic rob me of a few years.
Yes, it is way too much. I will venture that anyone who would drink that much on a regular basis is almost certainly an alcoholic. When we're used to alcoholics, we lose perspective on what is normal drinking. Normal drinking is none to maybe two to three drinks per week. Your A is over by a factor of about forty. Plus not letting up is a mark of alcoholism.
We all have trauma and sadness in our lives. Responding by drinking is an alcoholic thing. Non-alcoholics respond in other ways. So the idea that "she is just moved to do it because of this sad thing..." - well, we all have a sad thing, but we don't all drink in response.
Remember that alcoholism is progressive. It gets worse.
There are so many alcoholics that very many people will find themselves together with an alcoholic. That is not the mark of a co-dependent. What happens next is what separates us co-dependents from other people. The other people leave. We co-dependents stay. Then we ask, as I asked many times, "Why is this happening to us?"
It took me a long time to see my own addiction to the addicts. The focus on them kept the focus off myself. That had an up side (in the short term) and a down side (in the long term).
Haha, I am always good for an uneducated opinion! LOL! I even had to google some images to find out how much a liter bottle is.
I am sorry, Raven. It is hard because, here we are! We love people who are flawed, and the next thing we know, we look in the mirror and see a flawed person looking back.
Here is an interesting point of view: I was a very flawed person before I ever met my AH, only I did not realize that I could use a good long look in the mirror. Otherwise, I would not have overlooked the obvious, which was that I would never be able to change him.
The great thing, is loving him has led me here. I have a lot to learn. And today, that is exciting for me.
Yes, it is way too much. I will venture that anyone who would drink that much on a regular basis is almost certainly an alcoholic. When we're used to alcoholics, we lose perspective on what is normal drinking. Normal drinking is none to maybe two to three drinks per week. Your A is over by a factor of about forty. Plus not letting up is a mark of alcoholism.
Thanks Mattie; you are exactly right, this amount is beyond excessive!! Thank-you for your comments.
Hey Raven X! I too am a gay woman and have posted here extensively about my relationship with my ex AW. Maybe it would help to read them..? I am happy to PM, too -- so much of what we all have in common as people loving alcoholics is exactly the same and has nothing to do with class, race, gender or sexual orientation. I do think though, that gay folks have some different pressures (especially since even a generation ago the only real place to meet were bars, and because of the shame, loss of family, and not fitting in anywhere, a lot of people turned to alcohol). So please do write if you feel like it -- I think we could help one another.
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Peace comes from within. Do not seek it from without. Buddha
I do think that we can, after a time, become desensitized to how much is too much. The thing that is especially concerning to me is the drinking in the morning. I have seen a lot of that over the years. It actually became so normal, that I stopped thinking about it as being unusual or different. And, when someone starts drinking in the morning, when does the drinking stop? at night? I have wasted too many of my days with a wife who does nothing but drink all day. Weekends, Holidays, Working days, etc. Looking back, I wonder how she convinced me that it was normal to drink in the morning?
Last night, my wife opted to walk to the liqueur store and purchase a 750 of vodka instead of buying toilet paper, since we still had paper napkins and paper towels at home. (Thank goodness for separate bathrooms!) This morning, she stated how proud she was of herself for leaving a few shots left at the bottom of that bottle. To me, that is too much vodka for a Tuesday night. For her, she is doing great and drinking MUCH less than usual.
And, welcome! Glad to share the journey with you.
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Skorpi
If you are depressed, you are living in the past. If you are anxious, you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present. - Lao Tzu
You already have many good answers here, but I'll chime in.
It's rarely the amount of alcohol, it's the relationship with it. Does she control it, or does it control her?
And, as mentioned, Al-Anon is about the understanding that you don't have to drink it for it to control you!
Second-hand alcohol is addictive, or can be.
If you are addicted to :
trying to create order out of someone else's chaos; hurting yourself and others by trying to stop another from hurting herself (and you!) without recognizing that you can't; the pain of letting yourself be abused, lied to, lied about, manipulated and injured (somehow you think you deserve the pain?); the fight and struggle for vindication and the need to prove you are RIGHT(and the occasional feeling of control you get when you experience a fleeting victory)
I am addicted to all of these behaviors (and more). I am powerless over alcohol and I don't even drink it.
The way our society has abused, degraded, punished, persecuted, mangled, torn down, stripped, vilified, and even killed people that are born homosexual is enough to make ME want to drink myself into numbness. I'm surprised all of you aren't addicted to alcohol and worse. And it makes it so hard to find healthy partners because so many have been harmed so badly simply for being born and wanting love. And I'm sure it makes it hard because each of you knows where the other's pain comes from, and you want to heal it. You want to fix it. Here I go. I'm going to cry again. More power to you! Best wishes! Good Vibes! Love, Hope and Respect! Keep calm, stay strong and carry on!
It did contribute to my alcoholism, almostThere. It also contributed to me finding alcoholic partners, as gay bars are one of the limited places for meeting people. However, I didn't know that recovery would change everything for me. I am a victim of nothing now. Including my sexual orientation. I will say that it means the world to have empathic straight allies such as on this board. When I got married to my husband a year ago (yes, gay wedding), all the folks changed their icons to church hats to celebrate with me. Very blessed here.
That's great pinkchip. Congratulations! What my fundamentalist Christian parents did to my homosexual sister should be considered nothing less than criminal. Glad to know you've found comfort. I'm still searching for it.
Aloha Raven welcome back to the board and my experience in recovery suggest that you read your opening post as if you were someone else which might help you arrive a more clearer picture of where you have place yourself and what will be happening next. Your post seems to be trying to justify living your life continuing to voluntarily have a alcoholic partner. "...because this is my 3rd alcoholic" "this is an ongoing thing" etc. I relate to the talk cause I did the same thing more often until I found out that one of my correctible problems was I hung out with and dated from the alcoholic gene pool. I was doing what I was born and raise into alcoholism so I married the women I drank with. You do what you know and I had to change what I knew and give myself other options I would enact with a ton of courage cause I didn't know how the future would come out. The math is flawed once you come to understand if you wish and for yourself what alcohol is and how it works. I went to college on the chemical and the disease. I don't drink any longer and never had a reason other than "I could" when I did. It almost took my life. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
I too am gay and I'm happy to see I'm among not just the al anon family, but family as well! I treasure everyone's advice here, gay or straight. We are all going through similar things, though I agree, the gay spin makes it trickier for some of us. My AW has been drinking very heavily especially in the last year, as she is trying to decide to break ties permanently with her mom and sisters because they no longer include her because she is gay. It's difficult to watch her go through it, but I in a way understand because of my dad in the same way. And I have drank when my dad gave away my now sister-in-law but refused to be at my wedding or give me away. It's a pain that is deep...but I really don't drink. For me, I had a couple of shots my sister gave me before the wedding, then realized what I was doing...numbing the pain...I stopped. My A can't. In fact, the drinking in my opinion has been way too much in the last year. She's been hiding it better, though, but there were times that 2/3 of a bottle of gin would be gone in a night or Jack....the big bottles (and expensive, too). Now it's the gallon jugs of gin that are gone in a few days that really concern me...most of the drinking is done out of the house, so I know drinking and driving is involved. I try not to worry, but it's hard. I have also worried about health issues, and illness. I know she has to have liver damage, but she claims she's healthy as a horse...but hasn't been to the doctor in years and refuses to go. I think she knows her health is going downhill. I focus on myself when I get into the worry. It has helped me. I work the steps....I'm constantly on step 1, and working on 2. It helps my focus. That's the key, really. What am I going to focus on- the drinking, the lack of trust, the worrying, the bottle checking, etc. Or do I work on myself...my dreams, things I want to accomplish, things that I have control over, etc. That is helping me. Please keep coming back....it works if you work it! :)
Gabigail
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Butterflies can't see their wings. They can't see how truly beautiful they are, but everyone else can. People are like that as well. Anonymous
Sorry to hear about your pain. As I mentioned before, my sister is gay so I have a special affinity for gay women, although, I have a look, or a vibe or something, because when I used to go to bars, and there were gay women, I swear, they hated me. Without even talking to me, I'd swear they were giving me the evil eye. If I did have to interact getting a drink or something at the bar, they were RUDE! It was a running joke - I love gay women and they hate me! We use to laugh about it. I didn't take it seriously, because I know enough gay people that I love and that love me. Wasn't like that with the gay guys. I'm actually the only person in my family both nuclear and extended that knows my sister is legally married to her partner. They couldn't tell anyone else.
But what I started writing about was the guilt I feel every year when my AW gets a checkup and her blood work comes back clean and healthy. Don't get me wrong, I don't wish more illness upon her, but damn, can't we even get a warning sign? Some precursor? Instead, it's just a license to keep it up.
I hope that for my A....a clean bill of health. But there has been some weird stuff like these lumps that appear on the right side and disappear. Very strange. I keep telling her to check it out, but nope! I kept getting sick this spring and she hadn't and I swear I was getting her illnesses and I was exhibiting the symptoms...I don't know if that can really happen, but I wouldn't be surprised. Anything with this disease I'm not surprised about anymore.
Almost there- I like you...maybe they thought you were a chick magnet and was just jealous!! :) Lesbians can be that way! Some were jealous with me and my AW and would treat me that way... if only they'd know the mess they'd be getting....ha!
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Butterflies can't see their wings. They can't see how truly beautiful they are, but everyone else can. People are like that as well. Anonymous
HA! Thanks gabigail! I don't know. I vaguely remember at least thinking that I might have been a magnet of some kind (delusional) a long, long time ago, but I've been chick repellent for so long now I'm not sure how I ever got married to begin with! Oh yeah, that's right, She's insane. Explains a lot!
Seriously though, I've been repellent to humans in general, including myself for a long time, and that's another of the many things that brought me here.
I also suffer from RBF (Resting B###h Face). And while I'm sure I still have it, these last few days I've caught myself smiling on the inside. Didn't recognize me at first!
I am a double winner (AA & Alanon) so can share what I've learned about Alcoholism first...
If she's using alcohol as a tool, it's probably an issue in her life. Based on what you wrote regarding her daughter, it sounds like she's numbing her pain. From personal experience, I can share that the pain doesn't go away - it just gets pushed down and will stay there, waiting and festering until it's processed. For me, when I got sober, I had so many things that bubbled up - it was extremely strange....hurts from childhood, hurts from adolescence, etc. I was like - WTF - ? I'm 26 and am have feelings about 'events' from years ago? So - it certainly is a temporary solution - a damaging one for most.
As an Alanon person, I too will say, "What are you going to do?" I applaud you for posting - and I applaud you for realizing that no matter how much you love her, you don't want to devote years of time to another A. Kudos to you for the self-realization that you are IMPORTANT!!
The best gift of Alanon for me has been the steps and a sponsor. Meetings also are great and between all of this, I have learned how to set boundaries that 'leave no dead bodies'. Before Alanon, I would set boundaries (ok....give ultimatums) that were mean-spirited, unattainable at times and certainly selfish. I didn't think they were so one-sided at the time, but I've since learned 'better'. Detaching with love and setting boundaries along with the other items I mentioned have helped restore me to some level of sanity in spite of what is going on around me.
I would be uncomfortable in your situation, based exactly on what you've drawn upon - past experience. So glad you are here and hope you realize you aren't alone!
Make it a great night!
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Practice the PAUSE...Pause before judging. Pause before assuming. Pause before accusing. Pause whenever you are about to react harshly and you will avoid doing and saying things you will later regret. ~~~~ Lori Deschene
Thank you all for posting insights from experience and your Heart.
I am new to this forum and community but can already tell how supportive and giving you all are and I'm very glad I found this site. I actually found the site before, but never chose to share my life and struggles. I am glad I did; I have read all of your post a couple of time each and I appreciate everyone' perspective so very much.
I am really on the fence trying to determine my GF's relationship with alcohol. On one hand it seems so familiar and I want to stamp her forehead with a BIG A.....but I am hesitant just yet. Given my past It all feels so familiar. She is drinking TOO much but I am still willing to take a step back and wait and see. Yes, she is definitely drinking too much to dull the pain with the events over the past few months with her daughter. Thankfully her daughter graduated HS today and is moving to be with her dad. She is 18 now and suddenly thinks he is "super dad".....this has crushed my GF who has genuinely been a great mother to her.
There is so much different about my current GF than past A's I have been with. I want to say my GF drinks in the morning because she works 12 hour shifts and gets home at 7am and wants a couple of drinks (strong ones) before she goes to bed. She truly loves and treats me better than anyone ever has, she really is a good soul, she has given me so much and I love her with all my heart. She is working full-time and overtime while supporting me as I finish my masters in Theology.
Some of you mentioned it's not the amount she consumes but how it affect her and our relationship. The bottom line is I don't like it, but she doesn't have that Jekyll and Hyde personality like my last GF. I'm not sure if I'm rambling here, defending her or trying to analyze this, but hopefully I will sort it out in time.
We had an argument 2 days ago that ended with me simply saying "you make your decisions and I will make mine." Meaning if I can't live with this, then I will have to leave no matter how much it hurts.
In the meantime I plan on taking a good look at myself and actions. I am going to do my very best to stay focused on myself by continuing to work on completing my degree along with other projects for my future. I truly hope my GF is part of my future, she is a kind, sweet and Beautiful woman with a very good soul and I love her deeply, but as I told her the other day "I love you, but I love myself too."
Thank all of you again for taking the time to sit at your computers and make a post. I just got back on this site tonight and was blown away at how many of you were willing to share your time and advice......God Bless you.
-- Edited by Raven_x on Friday 29th of May 2015 11:00:38 PM
-- Edited by Raven_x on Friday 29th of May 2015 11:01:14 PM
