Do I confront him on ths or will it do me no good? - Al-Anon Family Group

Mapper · Veteran Member

Do I confront him on ths or will it do me no good?

Skorpi · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Mapper.

I feel like I have been in your shoes. I am at work, or mowing the lawn, roasting a chicken, or whatever, and I THINK my wife is where she ought to be. Later, I find out that she didn't lie to me, but she wasn't honest about what she was doing, either. (lies by omission she calls them, when she thinks I am not telling her every aspect of what I am doing.)

I made myself crazy trying to make sure she was at work, where she was supposed to be. (For a while, that work was at her mom's business. And even then, my wife managed to figure out a way to be at the bar drinking before and after work, without her mom or me knowing about it.)

For me, I had to give up that control. My wife knows what she ought to do. She has a way to do it. The decision to do what she should, or to go drinking is hers. And I have to work, too. I cannot make her do what she should do, because that keeps me from doing what I should do.

I guess, you know what your husband is doing. What are YOU going to do? Live your life, or try to control his? Me, I would worry sick about my wife, but I now (thanks to alanon) I do go about my business. Contacting my wife when she is drinking and trying to get her back on track is pointless. She isn't going to do it, and I end up looking unprofessional when she shows up S§$% faced at my places of employment. And, I end up losing pay when I have to leave early to get her out of there, least she embarrass me further.

For me, I had to stop worrying about what my wife was doing. I couldn't control it anyway, and it made me sick trying to deal with it. Her actions are her own responsibility. For me, I need to let them be what they are: hers to deal with.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

What I learned early on and then over and over until I got it was "The program works when I work it"...not my program...the program of the Al-Anon Family Groups. It was astoundingly crazy for me to keep doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. In fact that was programs definition on insanity. Sanity is the last word at the end of step two. I wanted sanity so badly that it became one of the driving forces getting me into and keeping me into program. I stop reacting to her life and went on about mine. Keep coming back ((((hugs)))) smile

Mapper · Veteran Member

Yup just been verified. Logged onto his bank account and see he just made a purchase at a pizzeria about 20 minutes away. Sure enough, 7PM he comes through the front door. I say "I was expecting you." He goes "Aw really, why?" I tell him about the package being delivered after he left. He starts lie after lie. "Oh I thought it got delivered at like 1:00", I just went for a while" Never specifying he went to WORK, just that he "went" rather than stand around. Whatever that meant! Oh but he picked up his guitar that was being fixed while he was out. So you were gone for at least 4 hours why??

pamala · Member

Yes, checking his bank account confirmed what you already knew, but at what cost to you? Checking, verifying and investigating another person will drive you more crazy than you already feel. Been there, done that. You confirming you were right doesn't change what you already knew. I have found if I just stop looking... if i just stop having to prove I am right...then I feel calmer and more in control of myself. Ultimately, you cannot make others do anything they do not want to do, so the less you try to do that the more peace you will feel.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Someone once suggested i read my own post as if it was someone elses, it was useful, i could see some truths i didnt know were there. One symptom of alcoholism is obsession. Being obsessed with the alcoholic is the insanity part for me. I was obsessed, i could recognise it a mile away. You are obsessed, sorry to put it bluntly. I couldnt see it either, i remember thinking but hes dojng this or hes doing that. I couldnt take my eyes or my mind off him long enough to consider that i was insane.
Alcoholism in the alcoholic is a set of typical behaviours that we all recognise, any one of us cohld have written what you just have. The surprising part after 20 years of this for me was finding out i was obsessed and i had my own set of symptoms that i hadnt a clue about. I was and still am amazed. I was suffering from alcoholism, the family disease and it was cunning and baffling and telling me there was nothing wrong with me.

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Forgot about the good bit. You can get better, free from this constant never ending merrygoround. Im much better, free of this and its throguh working the alanon recovery program in every way i know how.

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

Mapper, I'm so sorry you are hurting so badly.

I don't do very well at NOT giving advice. It will probably be the hardest part for me.

I want to HELP... that's my way.

I don't have a lot of ESH for you on this one but I have some questions.

So you checked. Now you know. NOW what? what will confronting him do? will it change him? probably not. Will it make you more crazy? yep

do you have ANY control over him? NO. ONLY yourself. so do the serenity prayer... God, Grant me the serenity to ACCEPT the things I cannot change.

That is all you need.... you don't need to go further... YOU cannot CHANGE him.

all this checking and verifying and worrying is not going to fix this or change this or help you....

OK I lied I do have ESH:

I started Al-aon about three months ago. I walked in angry and frustrated. I knew that I had no control over him. I knew that his disease had progressed to the terminal stage if HE did not fix it. I knew I could not make him fix it or make him WANT it more than I did. HE had to want it. I wanted to figure out what were the right things to say to him to make him want it. I wanted Al-anon to tell me WHAT to do to make him want it. I wanted Al-anon to help me help HIM fix the crazy.

What I learned from meetings and from USING the tools the MEETINGS give me is that FIXING MYSELF does help him. AND even if it does not I feel better.

My husband has said to me that when he was drinking and I would go upstairs to not be around him that he would drink more because I abandoned him and he was angry with me for leaving him to drink alone. He was angry I did not want to be with him when he was drinking. He was so mired in his disease he could not understand why I didn't want to be with an abusive drunk. He TRIED to blame me for his drinking more.

Nope... sorry.. NOT My CIRCUS NOT MY MONKEYS.... NOT MY FAULT.

NOTHING I do is what causes him to drink or not drink.

all I can do is work my program and take care of myself.

learning loving detachment was the hardest part but once i got it, I had peace and he learned that his behavior had consequences.

Now that he's a dry drunk I am no longer afraid to walk away from him (if he was drinking and I tried to walk away he would come after me) when he gets verbally abusive and calls me names I say "this conversation is done you can't call me names" and I walk away. WHEN it's happening it's bad.

BUT what I am seeing (in the long run) is that by standing my ground, setting my boundaries, not engaging with him in bad behavior and giving him NO REWARDS (positive or negative) when he's "misbehaving" my peace is intact and HIS behavior is magically (not really) improving.

WOW... by my taking care of myself it impacts on him. and guess what, if it doesn't no biggie, I'm not around his insanity and it can't hurt me.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

My Ex-A went through this routine too with his job. It was ironic because he was whining and crying that work was "a prison" to him and the longer he made excuses and maxed out the FMLA, the more he built up his job to be this evil, awful, nasty, torturous place. So, my Ex-A also go out of the hospital (only I had him committed for about 2 weeks after trying to kill himself while drunk and taking all kinds of pills) and that is when the act really amped up. I don't know that I obsessed on it like you are, but it irritated the hell out of me. He would whine that work was "like a prison" boohoo... Meanwhile, I was literally working in a real prison every day as a counselor.

I did get fed up. At that point, our relationship only have a few months left out of the total 7 years. I know what was behind me wanting to control what he did. For me, his being a lazy lying excuse maker was worse than the drinking. My values for what I wanted in a relationship/marriage were being violated constantly. I wanted a partner that went to work, just like me, then came home and we enjoyed time together. I wanted us to built a future together and to have the same values. All the arguing and wanting him to be different was because he was NOT valuing what I thought made sense and what I thought she should value. Something snapped eventually and I realized he never was going to value what I did. Perhaps his alcoholism made it impossible. Or perhaps he was just a liar that didn't like to work. I bailed eventually because it was driving me insane. Every time I confronted, I got sob stories or angry accusations. I got told I was unsupportive of him. I got told that I was the one who was wrong for staying in a job that was not going anywhere and I needed to "dream big" like him. It was ridiculous. Needless to say, he was shocked when I left and had had enough.

Breakingfree · ~*Service Worker*~

I used to check up on my exAH, but it got to be exhausting and for what purpose it didn't ever change who he was or how toxic our relationship was. When I first found al-anon I read a great book "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews and it helped me wrap my mind around my life so well. I suggest it for you as well as getting to some face to face meetings to find some serenity. Keep coming back! Sending you much love and support!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Aside from all that. If you can stop obsessing about him long enough to hear one thing: Go to Alanon please!!!

I feel like we have all be telling you some of the same stuff about taking care of you, focusing on you and you are like "Yeah okay, but today HE did this and HE did that and HE HE HE...and more about HIM and how he's making me miserable." You are so obsessed with him you are having problems even listening to us.

And I say this in love because I've been in a similar spot and it SUCKED.

andromeda · ~*Service Worker*~

Wow, I think I wrote a bunch of posts like that a long time ago. Get to a meeting, find a sponsor, work the steps, and put the focus on yourself. That is the best gift you can give yourself. Hugs. You've gotten so much ESH here and there's not much more I can add. Please take care of YOU!

Mapper · Veteran Member

Yes I know I am obsessed with him and I'm sorry I'm not taking everyone's suggestions to heart. I'm just so angry at him for doing what he's doing, knowing that I am paying every bill without a cent of help from him. All he says is "Everything will be ok". I am SO tired of hearing that!It's just so hard for me to understand why he will sit there and tell me to my face several times that he's going into work, reply to my text saying that he's going into work, even saying last night that he's got his first guitar lesson today at 12:30 and he purposely scheduled it as such so that it would would end at 1PM and then he could just drive straight to work. Then come home and I confront him and tell him I know he wasn't at work and he actually tries to come up with all these flimsy excuses that he KNOWS I can see right through.

And it's not that he's not going to work so he can sit home and drink or go to a bar. He isn't going in because he hates his job, or at least the people he works with. A 47 year old man and he hasn't been to work for 6 weeks because he can't get along with the people he works with. How many people in this world hate their job or coworkers yet still go to work EVERY day??!! Now that he hasn't been drinking he has been seriously applying for other jobs. Yet he is applying for jobs with no benefits and where he'll make $15/hr, but he says at least he'll be happy. He currently makes $38/hr and can't pay his bills most of the time so how is this going to help AT ALL?? If he had no debt and some savings I would be much more agreeable to it, but he has $6,000 in credit card debt, $3,000 in work loans, $10,000 in student loans, his paycheck keeps being garnished by a company trying to get back a debt, $12,000 remaining on a motorcycle loan, plus just the monthly bills which, IF he paid his share, would be around $1,200. Of course me telling him he can't work at a job that pays that little and I get the response "Well it would be a huge relief to work somewhere else and I can jam on the OT and this way I'll go to work everyday all day if I like the environment." He also thinks that his child support will be way less than it is now. Of course he doesn't realize that the same percentage of whatever he's making is still going to be taken out at $15 as it is at $38.

All he is doing is moving backwards. I guarantee you that no matter where he works, he is going to hate some aspect of it after a month or two and want to find another job. I mean I saw one of his applications and he listed his last 3 jobs, with one being his current job. They ask reason for leaving and his current one he says "Do not like work environment" and another one it says 'Friction with owner". The other one he listed as "Lack of work" but there he actually took the owner to court because he believes he was let go due to personal issues. So as you can see, he doesn't really play well with others so why does he think a new job is going to be any different?

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

I understand your anger but its getting you nowhere. Just stuck on the same old merrygoround. How would you feel if you knew this same story could play out with different scenarios for your whole life? It can happen. Misery, frustration, anger, resentments forever until the end. There is another way but until you want to come out of the problem and raise your head to see the solutions then theres nothing anyone can do to help you. I didnt want to look for another way until it got so bad that i knew beyond any doubt that i needed help and i was willing to do anything to change my life.

Tired-of-it · Veteran Member

Because he is an Alcoholic!!!!! It's like trying to reason with a brick wall! They don't HEAR you! Only what they want to hear! I agree with Skorpi:

"For me, I had to stop worrying about what my wife was doing. I couldn't control it anyway, and it made me sick trying to deal with it. Her actions are her own responsibility. For me, I need to let them be what they are: hers to deal with."

I quit trying to have any meaningful conversation with my AH when he is drinking. It's pointless and frustrating. I am so sorry for all you are going through. I don't know your whole situation. Sounds like there is a lot of finantual issues involved. That makes it so much harder. I pray you can find some answers soon!

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

HIi Mapper,

I used to do all kinds of detective work. Looking for bottles, wondering if wife left during the day, anticipating when she would "nap" so hard she wouldn't pick our son up from school. I mentioned it a number of times when I first got to MIP.

Then I decided I had had enough. It was driving me crazy. My attitude, well it just sucked. My trust of her, and everyone else, was at an all time low. At that point I decided to let it go, it was hurting me a lot more than it was helping her. In fact, it wasn't helping her at all. She wasn't going to change for all of my nagging. If I found a bottle, we would argue if it was recent or not. If she didn't get to school, she was "napping" hard and needed the sleep due to insomnia. etc etc. So I let her have her consequences finally. it was hard. It was expensive. But I don't know what I would have done if I had cared much longer, probably cared myself or her into a grave.

Once I got into Al Anon, I learned about detachment with love, and got to practice that. And once I detached, she had DUIs and jail. And then a rehab that finally took seriously, and is now > 1 1/4 years sober.

So for my own sanity, I was glad I found Al Anon. I hope you go to a meeting, or go to an online meeting here soon.

Kenny

Mapper · Veteran Member

Well today I am truly going to try not checking to see if he clocked in at work and not going onto Facebook to see if he is on while he should be at work (although I think he has already figured out that I look there so he doesn't go on after about 1PM). I joined a gym about a month ago and while he was in rehab, I went all the time because knew where he was and there would be no surprises. However, now this week I have not been to the gym at all because I want to get home to see if he's there or not. It's very wrong of me to do that. I know that and I have to break myself of it.

But what do I do about him looking for a poor paying job with no benefits? He doesn't listen to me and comes up with what he thinks are great reasons to get that job (It will relieve so much stress, I won't have to pay as much CS, I'll finally go to work EVERY day and probably make as much as I make now when I hardly go in). Yet he only pays me now his share of the mortgage and his bike payment when he can which is about $900. I pay the entirely of the phone, cable, internet, gas, electric, garbage bills. He needs to give me about another $500 a month on top of that. There is no reasoning with him until he actually starts the job and then the complaints come pouring in about how horrible it is and then the cycle starts all over again of needing a new job. I've known him for 10 years and he's had 5 jobs in that time. 7 years at his current one.

-- Edited by Mapper on Thursday 16th of April 2015 11:33:22 AM

LedfootJenny · Senior Member

Hi Mapper!

I think a lot of us hear our own stories in yours. I think one reason Al Anon works so well is because the disease of alcoholism has a very predictable pattern, and the disease of excessive care taking, fixing, obsessing, enabling and confusing pity with love is also a very predictable pattern. Simply put - we are the "yin" to their "yang".

An active alcoholic cannot be in a relationship with someone who is sane, focused on self and healing, centered and living her own life. An AA MUST find someone like us to be in relationship with. We will pour out our heart, our bank accounts, our relationship with family and friends, our relationship with ourselves and our children, our employment, our free time and finally our sanity to try to FIX them. And what pay off do we reap for our reward? I was filled up with anger, resentment, self loathing, hate, depression and my favorite - ruminating thoughts!

I used to spend countless hours "score keeping". I would tally up how much money I contributed to the household vs. him. I would count up his endless series of jobs vs. my stable on going employment. I would craft countless spreadsheets in my own mind of various ways to MAKE him understand, do something, finish what he'd started, parent, provide, be more social, keep his promises, stop lying etc.

The columns on that spreadsheet were many my friend!

And then I asked myself if any of this busy-ness was effective? No. Was I receiving joy, life, happiness, fun, satisfaction, deep connection from all of this score keeping and finger pointing and tallying? NOPE.

So I found a new way. I invite you to go to the gym, take a walk, connect with a friend, go to a meeting and lay down your score keeping so you can begin to live your own best life!

Hugs to you! We're glad you're here!

Jenny

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

You don't HAVE to pay his bike payment, do you? If he really wants a bike, he really should be working for it. Just like the rest of the adults on planet earth. If you are in charge of paying everything, then setting boundaries of how much you need every month, and if you come up short then the fixed expenses will be paid first, and if there is money left over the discretionary expenses get paid.

Kenny

Mapper · Veteran Member

Well the bike payment loan is in my name because his credit was too bad 3 years ago when we got it. It was stupid of me, very stupid, to agree to do it but oh he promised me he'd make EVERY monthly payment and I wouldn't have to worry. Well 36 months of payments and he's maybe made about 5 or 6 of those. Of course how can I say no to something he really wanted. I can never say no. Sure I could sell the bike, but that sure wouldn't fly. He needs that to go to race weekends where he or I need to fork out $250 so he can race. Not working also didn't stop him from buying a $1500 guitar when he already had 2 but wanted a better one. On top of that, add all the extras they sold him which amounted to another $500.

I have never been able to set boundaries with him. I always want him to be happy but it's at my expense of being angry.

Mapper · Veteran Member

LedfootJenny wrote:
Hi Mapper!

I think a lot of us hear our own stories in yours. I think one reason Al Anon works so well is because the disease of alcoholism has a very predictable pattern, and the disease of excessive care taking, fixing, obsessing, enabling and confusing pity with love is also a very predictable pattern. Simply put - we are the "yin" to their "yang".

An active alcoholic cannot be in a relationship with someone who is sane, focused on self and healing, centered and living her own life. An AA MUST find someone like us to be in relationship with. We will pour out our heart, our bank accounts, our relationship with family and friends, our relationship with ourselves and our children, our employment, our free time and finally our sanity to try to FIX them. And what pay off do we reap for our reward? I was filled up with anger, resentment, self loathing, hate, depression and my favorite - ruminating thoughts!

I used to spend countless hours "score keeping". I would tally up how much money I contributed to the household vs. him. I would count up his endless series of jobs vs. my stable on going employment. I would craft countless spreadsheets in my own mind of various ways to MAKE him understand, do something, finish what he'd started, parent, provide, be more social, keep his promises, stop lying etc.

The columns on that spreadsheet were many my friend!

And then I asked myself if any of this busy-ness was effective? No. Was I receiving joy, life, happiness, fun, satisfaction, deep connection from all of this score keeping and finger pointing and tallying? NOPE.

So I found a new way. I invite you to go to the gym, take a walk, connect with a friend, go to a meeting and lay down your score keeping so you can begin to live your own best life!

Hugs to you! We're glad you're here!

Jenny

Hi Jenny. You sound so much like me. How many times have I taken time out of my day to tally up expenses that he didn't pay, how much I've "lent" him over the 10 years we've been together. I never showed him the lists or told him about them because what good would it do? All he would say is "Hang in there. It will get better. We've made it this far right?" He doesn't get how much money has been wasted on him and things he just HAD to have. How much I actually pay in a year compared to him. I came into this relationship with him with over 80,000 in savings. I am now down to about $30,000 all due to me being the nice girlfriend/wife and paying his bills, his late fees, his rent.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Yes, it's hard to do that. I have the same kind of problem, fortunately my wife isn't demanding like that. I know with me, and others I know, that kind of mentality leads to resentments big time, and eventually to popped corks and going postal. I finally came to the point where I value my serenity over what anyone else wants from me, and part of serenity is to rid myself of resentments. At least, theoretically, I know I am part of what Mirandac called "Doormats Anonymous".

If nothing changes, nothing changes, and you will be posting these same posts a year from now. I have to harp, but going to a meeting is a good start. Also, Melodie Beattie has a great boook called "Codependent No More" that can help you understand the dynamic that is happening here.

And keep coming back here, it takes courage to post like you are, I admire that, keep it up, and you very well may start changing your life!

Kenny

Mapper · Veteran Member

I guess my problem is that I feel like with an Alanon meeting that everyone would talk about how their SO isn't doing something because they are drinking. I realize that my H has stopped drinking but the issue is with the job situation. I feel like I would be out of place just wanting to vent about "Why isn't he going to work. Why is he promising me all this stuff that won't happen? Why does he continually lie? He tells me he is depressed and maybe that is the case. I just feel like I should be going to some other group than Alanon. I don't know. I know that I just feel crazy.

-- Edited by Mapper on Thursday 16th of April 2015 01:08:01 PM

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

Mapper that's the whole key Al-anon does NOT focus on the Alcoholic. KEEP THE FOCUS ON YOURSELF. NO one is going to talk about their qualifier or motivator. My husband is sober 95 days and I go to meetings but I don't talk about him. I work with a sponsor not about what he is doing but how I feel and why I feel that way.

You are asking WHY and we don't have any answer other than he is an alcoholic. Even sober he is an alcoholic. He will always be an alcoholic.

I find that Alanon along with therapy are a good mix.

I can take what i learn in Al-anon and work on it in therapy.

Venting is fine. do you want to be venting about this a year from now or do you want to try to feel better?

remember this is NOT about him at all. I know it feels like it is. and he is overwhelming your life but guess what

NO is a complete sentence

YOU can sell the bike it's in your name... you make a CHOICE not to.

If you know what he's going to do why bother to ask him? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is insanity.

Our goal in Al-anon is to make ourselves healthy. If the A wants to come along for the ride that is their circus and their monkey... it's theirs to control not ours.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

I didn't start going to Al Anon until my wife was first in recovery. There are people at all kinds of levels of this whole journey in Al Anon. I have learned *so much* about my wife's alcoholism and, more importantly, about me, and how I could change my reactions either to her active alcoholism, or her recovery.

To qualify for Al Anon, you have to have a friend or relative that has a problem with alcohol, so you definitely qualify. I have men and women in my home group whose qualifiers haven't drank for years, and they keep coming back. The secret is, once you have taken the focus off your alcoholic, you start discovering you, and you start understanding how little control you have over others, and how little control they have over you. You find out that the only one that can control others is themselves, and the only on that can control you is you. You start understanding how long you have neglected yourself, and how much you have given yourself away in the name of making him happy, or not making waves, or whatever it is, and how to change that.

Kenny

Mapper · Veteran Member

KennyFenderjazz wrote:
I didn't start going to Al Anon until my wife was first in recovery. There are people at all kinds of levels of this whole journey in Al Anon. I have learned *so much* about my wife's alcoholism and, more importantly, about me, and how I could change my reactions either to her active alcoholism, or her recovery.

To qualify for Al Anon, you have to have a friend or relative that has a problem with alcohol, so you definitely qualify. I have men and women in my home group whose qualifiers haven't drank for years, and they keep coming back. The secret is, once you have taken the focus off your alcoholic, you start discovering you, and you start understanding how little control you have over others, and how little control they have over you. You find out that the only one that can control others is themselves, and the only on that can control you is you. You start understanding how long you have neglected yourself, and how much you have given yourself away in the name of making him happy, or not making waves, or whatever it is, and how to change that.

Kenny

Thank you. I am a great (and I don't mean in a good way) enabler. I am a big doormat never wanting to rock the boat and wanting never to have confrontation. I have always been this way. I guess my biggest fear is that the smallest confrontation will turn into a huge fight where he will never love me again.

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

Going to Al-anon is the first step.

I am afraid that once I get healthy I will no longer want to be with my AH even when he's sober cause he's still a jerk. I love him. He loves me.

As Al-anon helps ME get healthy and I learn to let go and let god I realize if we are supposed to be together we will be. Meanwhile I'm at peace with his garbage and I continue to strive to get better.

LedfootJenny · Senior Member

Hey Mappy,

I'm not sure that we're being "good girlfriends / wives" by enabling our husbands to drain us dry, and never have to learn to provide and care for themselves. In someways I learned I've done my spouse a real disservice. He remained adolescent, unemployed, addicted - and yet, I did nothing but continue to provide ways to allow those behaviors to go on and on and on...

And I agree with Kenny. The trick is to stop looking at what your spouse is or isn't doing. Healing begins when we look inside ourselves and find a way to allow the other person that same space.

I don't know what prior experience you've had with Al Anon, but I might try not to speculate on what you think or feel Al Anon might be like? Just go and find out for yourself! You've already proven you're an excellent detective, problem solver and fixer...

You can put those talents to good use and allow them to work toward your benefit. I went from feeling crazy to feeling peace and serenity.

With Al Anon you can detect what is working for you and what's not. You can solve the problem of enabling, and you can fix your perception of what a good or nice spouse does and does not do, and what alternative choices might work better.

Coming here to find support is an excellent first step :) Finding out what it's about face to face is another great choice.

Mapper · Veteran Member

My problem is that I am constantly worried that he is going to hate me for things I do or don't do, things I say or don't say. That fear is what holds me back from doing anything. Until I can get over worrying that he's going to hate me, I don't think I will accomplish much.

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

Mapper.... WHAT is the WORST thing that will happen if he hates you??? The very very very WORST?

Mapper · Veteran Member

That he won't speak to me and make me feel horrible. My mom always used to give me silent treatments for days. They would start for no reason, at least none that I could figure out and she would never tell me what I did or what was wrong. The one time I asked her she said "Well if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you". I would only live to please her. I couldn't eat, sleep, concentrate, work. All I wanted was her to talk to me again. Nothing is worse to me than living in a house of silence only wondering what you did. Then just like that, after 3 or 4 days, I would wake up or come home from work/school and she'd be back to her normal self like nothing ever happened and I would be so relieved. I'd swear that I'd do anything in my power to keep that from happening again, which usually meant giving up going out with friends or basically doing anything outside of going to work or school because I knew she'd be upset by it and I wanted to make her happy and not cause conflict.

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

OH sweetie... hugs. HE can't MAKE you feel horrible. He can ignore you and then you can see your friends, and relax around the house and do what you want...

Silence is not evil. it's a gift to give you a chance to read... nap, catch up on things....

AND on top of that your AH is not your mother. I'm sorry your mother was ill and mistreated you this way.

I think you need to go to Al-anon meetings AND find a good therapist who can help you work through your feelings.

for me the WORST thing my husband would have done when I told him get sober or get out was leave. And at that point leaving was a better choice than living with the crap.

CONFLICT is fine... it's how we handle conflict that's the issue.

IF you take care of yourself and he does not like it, that's too bad. do you understand anything about co-dependency?

The best example I can give are my former in laws....

she was schizophrenic and Agoraphobic and he had PTSD from world war two and was a bit "simple" She was MUCH smarter than he was but she was much sicker.

they married late in life and she stayed int he apartment. He went out and saw people. When she was medicated she was healthy enough to not NEED him and not put up with his crap but her illness left her needing him.

When you would ask him "how is your wife" he would say "today is not a good day for her perhaps tomorrow would be better" and yet he did NOTHING to help her get better. He did not want her to get better because when she was better she didn't want to be with him.

Keeping her sick and unmediated was his way of keeping his marriage intact.

Mapper · Veteran Member

To me, silence with tension is the most evil thing there is. There is tension and in no way can I concentrate on anything or do anything for myself. All I want to do is make things better. I CANNOT stand someone not talking to me, which is why I am always apologizing even when I've done nothing wrong.

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

It is infuriating. Absolutely infuriating. I guess the question to think about is: given that it is indeed so infuriating, why do you choose to keep being around it? I'm asking with love and sympathy.

missmeliss · ~*Service Worker*~

I can relate very well to what you are saying. I was for years controlled by my A's angry silence, I would have done anything and I mean anything to avoid it or fix it. And like you I paid for everything he desired and was angry and hurt that he owed me so much money yet wouldn't work a proper job or pay his own bills or repay me for his...well with him it was a car, a computer, a suit and plane ticket to his best friends wedding, and so on and so on. I paid for it all, anything to try to guarantee he wouldn't hit me with the angry silence or threats to leave me.
I didn't make any real progress until I found an understanding of what this fear was and how much he was using it to control me. He knew very well what would happen if he gave me the silent treatment or the threats...I would buy him something. Cook up a storm. Bend over backwards and turn myself inside out trying to find a way to make him "love me again". It was horrible, horrible exploitation on his behalf and I knew no way to defend myself until I started to understand what it was that was going on.
"Getting Them Sober" (Toby Rice Drews) was the book that opened my eyes. It showed me what the problem I was creating for myself was, and al-anon gave me the solutions. I stopped fearing my A's silence and in fact just as ladybug said, I began to revel in it and enjoy the peace and al that I could accomplish for myself when it was just me all was peaceful. I did stop buying him things, I did stop allowing him to exploit me, I did start demanding he pay his share of the bills, and over time I stopped every one of my victim behaviours with him and guess what? He never did leave me and he stopped the silent treatment when it stopped working on me. I'm very happy and enjoying life in ways I couldn't have imagined. You can have that too. Just give it a go.
(((Mapper)))

-- Edited by missmeliss on Thursday 16th of April 2015 03:09:24 PM

wataic · Newbie

Hi Mapper, this is my first time here and I see myself in every ones story, especially yours. I recently (3 months ago) left my AH for the last time and filed for divorce after 28 years of marriage. I'm surprised that I'm still somewhat sane after doing and feeling all those things ie. spying, crying, threatening, begging , feeling guilty, etc. The fact that others stories are just like mine proves to me that I am completely powerless over his disease and even finally losing me hasn't changed its progress. I'm sending you peaceful thoughts and hope that you can start focusing on your own well being. It is really true that when you give up on trying to control and change someone and focus on yourself, you can find peace. It is not easy and it is painful but it is freeing and powerful. hugs to you.

Mapper · Veteran Member

Mapper wrote:
Well today I am truly going to try not checking to see if he clocked in at work and not going onto Facebook to see if he is on while he should be at work (although I think he has already figured out that I look there so he doesn't go on after about 1PM).

-- Edited by Mapper on Thursday 16th of April 2015 11:33:22 AM

So much for trying not to check. I couldn't help myself and went online to see if he clocked in and of course he didn't. Even after all the talk again last night about how he's going to work today.

I CANNOT understand how he can do this over and over again and lie to me. How can anyone promise things and then on a daily basis break those promises and lie? Does he have no respect for me?

So do I go home and yell at him? Be silently upset and barely say a word to him? Be sarcastic and say "What a surprise finding you here"? Act all cheery like nothing is wrong? How the hell do I handle this day after day?

-- Edited by Mapper on Thursday 16th of April 2015 04:55:17 PM

-- Edited by Mapper on Thursday 16th of April 2015 05:00:00 PM

Mattie · ~*Service Worker*~

I think here's what I'd do in similar circumstances.

I'd say to myself, "Yep, he's pretending to go to work again, and he thinks he'll be okay behaving like this. He's making crazy choices and being oblivious of the consequences. And not just 'crazy' choices as in 'silly' choices, but choices that a genuinely insane person would make. Delusional. He is a delusional person far deep into his insanity. It's a miracle that he's still walking around, although of course his crazy decisions will catch up with him eventually. But talking to him would be like trying to talk to someone who thinks aliens are living in his hair. Sure, it's insane, but the whole thing about insanity is that you don't believe you're insane. He's just as insane as a guy who thinks aliens are living in his hair or that his thoughts control the planets or that he can eat granite boulders."

Then I'd think: "I wonder why I've decided to keep on living with an insane person."

Then I'd find a local Al-Anon meeting and go to it, and then I'd do that again and again. And keep my ears open and read the literature and start thinking about making my own life better and more serene. And every time I'd get the impulse to make the insane person be sane, I'd use all my Al-Anon tools to remind myself not to try doing insane things also (such as trying to make an insane person see or behave sanely).

Hugs.

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Mapper you ask" How can someone do this over and over again? in reference to your husband's behavior .

We do the same things as the alcoholic only we do it sober. We keep checking up on them, fretting over why they do what they do and never put the focus on our own actions in order to correct our own thinking and actions.

It is indeed a Merry Go Round until someone steps off. Alanon gave me the tools to do so

Jen61 · ~*Service Worker*~

I watch Dr. Phil at times and he said one thing that has stuck with me - never give "them" a soft ride. I did that for years. We cannot buy our happiness by constantly doing for others while letting our life go. We need to let them fall, have consequences, grow. Like Betty said - it is indeed a Merry go Round until someone steps off. I stepped off, which was hard, but I did it.

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.