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Post Info TOPIC: Valid Criticism


Newbie

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Posts: 3
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Valid Criticism
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     New to this site, so I will really have tp get to know those of you who choose to converse with me on any given topic. Really connecting to people is important to me. I have 6 years of sobriety and long term experience working the 12 steps and going to AA meetings. I have a wonderful homegroup. I have been to a couple of Alanon meetings, though the folks there didn't like the fact that I had valid criticisms of Alanon, even though one of the criticisms was essentiaslly the same as a criticism Lois Wilson made of the modern program in her book LOIS REMEMBERS. That didn't seem to matter, and my motives were called into question when the participants couldn't think of a way to refute the criticisms I had offered (for instance, when I pointed out that Lois W. had made the very same criticism). My actual motive was two-fold: I had good reason to believe that my wife was being told some deceptive things in the program and applying those things in our relationship, which actually resulted in an uneccessary divorce. At no time did I sdimply "blame" Alanon entirely for the discord in our relationship, mind you. The reasons we had problems in our relationship were somewhat complex and had to do with issues we BOTH unfortunately had. My alcoholism was, of course, a huge, huge factor, although at the time of the decision to divorce I was sober. In fact, that was at the beginning of the six years of sobriety that God has granted me. At any rate, I wanted to confirm my suspicions with regard to Alanon by actually attending meetings. Unfortunately, the folks there accused me of any number of things that were entirely untrue, and I have since seen many Alanon folks on-line do the same thing to others who might have valid criticisms of things that have been going on in that program since perhaps the 70's and 80's. I haven't had time yet to do more research into the historical development of these problems in Alanon as yet, since I've been very busy trying to develop the proposal for a doctoral dissertation in religion and philosophy, work on my foreign language skills, and do my general research. I should say here, however, that one of the things I often research is the history and nature of various modern psycho-spiritual movements, such as Scientology, the recent interest in the supposed "metaphysical" power of"positive thought ie. "Laws of Attraction") as indicated by the popularity of Wayne Dyer and the book THE SECRET, The CELESTINE PROPHECY, "spiritualized" popular psychology, A COURSE IN MIRACLES, Alcoholics Anonymous, general "cult" groups, "positive confession protestant Christianity, etc. etc. This gives me, I believe, a pretty good perspective on recent historical developments in Alonon in addition to the personal and tragic experience of seeing my marriage end. Should I face the same "accusations" with regard to my "true motives" here on this sight, especially if its clear to see its being done by someone who sim[ply doesn't know how to cope with valid criticism, I will point that out immdediately, whether or not that will make any difference to the more objective and open-minded among you. Hopefully, those in the program may see something in somer of the things I say, and try to bring that perspective onto the meetings more often. Perhaps that will in some small measure help to prevent the kind of thing that happened in my relationship from happening to another couple. My marraige is over, so the best I can hope for now is to help somebody else. That's one of the ways in which I can practice the 12th step. So, this is my way of trying to reach out to another who could use my help, even if only indirectly. If any of you would like to see ythe program imrove and/or correct unfortunate things that may have happened in the history of the program, I'd sure appreciate your help. But if you are just dogmatically "anti-AA" or "anti-Alonon" I'd rather you didn't just "agree" with any criticism I may offer here and cite it as "proof" that all this "12 step stuff" is "cultic" or undermines "individual rational thought" or what have you.  I am a HUGE believer in the spiritually transforming power of working the 12 steps simply and thoroughly. In short, don't appropriate me to your thoughtless and dogmatic agenda. I simply won't have



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When the 12 steps are done simply and thoroughly, it fundamentally transforms people.


Senior Member

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Posts: 430
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No one forced your wife to get a divorce.
She didn't want to stay with you.
Accept and move on.

__________________

Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5075
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I ended my marriage completely after 6 months in alanon. It was the best decision i ever made. Im free of a relationship that became dysfunctional, ran on manipulation, fear, control, resentment on both our parts. We are both doing better, he is in aa and is sober but on the few occasions i have spent some time with him, he still sees himself as the eternal victim, its the perpetrator that changes regularly but he is always the victim. He has never been without an enemy, alanon was his enemy in his mind for a while. It was alanon that caused the end of his marriage!!!!!!!

Come on, give me some credit. Its easy for him and others to think alanon is a cult and has brainwashed people. Its another easy answer. Its pretty insulting, i was insulted when i heard it from my ex. There is so much more to me, alanon has given me that knowledge, im an intelligent woman, im finding out so many great things about myself and my ex husband has never been able to see me, never. So he throws around accusations, blames alanon, never ever looking within. Its a convienant answer. Its infuriating to me but i accept it as part of the disease of alcoholism, i have compassion for him and i dont blame him anymore . He is emotionally immature and it stops him seeing much of the intricate details and beauty of the world. Hes a black and white thinker. Its not good enough. I have many shades of grey so why would i be with someone who only wants and can relate to a tiny part of me?
I am not sure my share is of any use to you. Alanon saved me from many many more years of misery because i was miserable. I wont go looking for what lois said or didnt im not really that interested. Im sure alanon has flaws, everything does, i may see them one day but it wont take away the gifts ive been given. I hope you get peace one day robert, im not sure how likely that is when you have your rock solid evidence to show how you are a victim of alanon. It can be painful to accept the end of a relationship, people here know that. Everytime the alcoholics checks out with drink the partner feels loss, every time. Acceptance was importa t for me and gave me freedom. Acceptjng people for who they are and without blame and the need to change them. I can only change me and i work on it everyday.

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 834
Date:
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Robert, it truly appears you are here for other reasons than being a member of Al-Anon. In fact, it appears that you are here for many reasons other than the one you should be and that qualifies all of us to be here.

Frankly, I don't give a damn about your "educated" opinion or research regarding Al-Anon, 12 Step organizations, cults or whatever else your almighty mind can manifest to somehow buffer the blow of your wife walking away from you. And I ditto what someone else said...
No one forced your wife to get a divorce.
She didn't want to stay with you.
Accept and move on.

Of course she couldn't have possibly made that healthy decision on her own, without your influence and input huh? Surely not without our influence and input, right? How dare she?? Be bright enough, smart enough, possess enough intelligence, and intuitive wisdom to do what is right for herself without having to run it by you and seek your permission first?? Absolutely unheard of! Yet, it was right for her

Sorry buddy, but it sounds like someone you might have held captive with all your grand wisdom, manipulations, and twisted realities... broke out of the prison she was being held in... and my gawh, she might have had the moment of clarity and wisdom to do it without the need of much input from any one else. Being with you as a alcoholic might have been all she needed to make that decision for herself.

As the main administrator of this site, I am going to strongly suggest you take that line of thought that you have expressed here and go to the AA board with it and see how it floats there. It won't float here and I will openly say, we won't tolerate very much of it for very long here. That is not why we are here or come here, to get an education from a alcoholic.

Sincerely,
John



__________________

" And what did we gain?  A new life, with purpose, meaning and constant progress, and all the contentment and fulfillment that comes from such growth."

(Al-Anon's Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions,Step 3. pg 21)

big-bigger-faith-fear-god-Favim.com-288081.jpg

 

 



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 17196
Date:
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I agree John-- We are all imperfect human beings striving to practice a difficult program of recovery I believe the best way to do this is to" utilize and not analyze" since trying to figure it all out is what got me in big trouble in the start of this insanity.

Placing "DOUBT" is a very manipulative passive aggressive means of sabotage. Taking the focus off the problem and placing it on a worldwide fellowships does not address the pain and suffering that members who live with the disease encounter each day.

Alanon suggests that we" take what we like and leave the rest " No one is forced to use any tool they are not comfortable with.

I believe that if you encountered the same response to your message from alanon face to face meetings as you did here then possibly your message is the problem and not the program.


__________________
Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud
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