Al-Anon Family Group

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Alcoholic behavior or bad personality trait?


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 22
Date:
Alcoholic behavior or bad personality trait?


Sadly, I've become accustomed to my AH sneaking beers at inappropriate times.  When I find the poorly hidden cans, I usually just throw them away and don't say anything since it will inevitably lead to an argument.  Sometimes I will ask him not to put the cans in certain places, like behind the bed or in his bathroom cabinet, because it's unsanitary.  He'll grudgingly say okay and then put the cans in exactly the same places I just asked him not to.

Also, I've asked him not to smoke in our home since we have an infant son whose lungs are still developing.  We live in a warm weather area and have a nice porch he can smoke on, so I don't think my request is unreasonable.  However, I keep smelling smoke and have found cans in the house that he's actually used as ashtrays.  Yesterday, there were a bunch of ashes in my bathroom toilet.  I again asked him to stop smoking in the house and he actually tried to deny it even after I showed him all of the ashes I had found.  He then claimed he just forgot and "ran in" to the house with a lit cigarette because I guess I have "idiot" written across my forehead or something.  This particular behavior really bothers me because I feel he is disregarding our son's health for no practical reason at all.  We've had several arguments and calm discussions about this issue.  I know my AH is a 46 year old man, but this is the behavior of a selfish teenage brat.  I've never said that to him, of course.  It's just a thought that keeps popping up.

He lies/exaggerates about a wide variety of things, sometimes for no apparent reason.  I guess he's just insecure and wants to look important.  I've been told this is very typical alcoholic behavior.  I guess my question about this is, how do I know this is the disease and not just his personality?  The smoking in the house has me really confused since it's not like I asked him to quit.  I just asked him to pursue his habit in a way that did not endanger our son.  When do I say it's the disease and when do I hold him accountable and speak up?  His smoking in our home is unacceptable. 

I'm going to get back on track with my f2f meetings starting tonight, but I've noticed a trend there and here that has me a little worried.  It seems that most of the people participating in Al-Anon because of an alcoholic significant other that are acutally living their lives happily have two common traits.  The first is they really have worked the program for a long time.  The second is that they are no longer with the alcoholic significant other.  Am I just imagining that?  What are the odds of a person remaining with an alcoholic and keeping their sanity? 



__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 17196
Date:

Smiley I guess that's it all depends on what you define as sane. I would say that staying healthy and participating in life, without the help of a recovery program, for the non drinking partner, there is little chance of remaining sane in an insane relationship

The behavior you describe sounds like  part of tool of denial that is a symptom of alcoholism. I'm sure you know that alcoholism is a chronic, progressive, fatal disease over which we are powerless. This disease affects the problem drinker spiritually, emotionally and physically. We who live with the disease also develop similar symptoms and require a program of recovery of our own.

I would like to point out that there are many that stay in the marriage to an alcoholic with the help of Al-Anon tools. I must add that I had no choice but to seek Al-Anon help. By the time I reached out, the pain that I was living in was enormous and there was no place else to turn.

The program offered me tools to live by, with no promises that my partner would recover but that I would. I finally surrendered and knew that my life was my responsibility and that I had to learn how to take care of me regardless of what happened to the relationship.

I am glad you're planning on returning to meetings and please keep coming back here.


 



__________________
Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 25
Date:

That's a good question.  Hiding the cans is pretty goofy. It's as goofy as it is when we go snooping around looking for evidence that they are using.  You don't seem to be doing that but I can tell you that I use to do that a long time ago. As far as the smoking, I'd venture a guess that he's either in his own fogged out world and forgets or is resentful that you're telling him what to do. Either way, I understand your frustration since your child is exposed to the smoke. 

In general, I think people who live together can have very different ideas about cleanliness whether there's alcoholism involved or not. I was venting about this with my sponsor a few weeks ago. We are both with men who are in recovery for awhile now. We both had the same complaints. Both guys do the same things when it comes to the house. I have some friends who are not alcoholics who also do these things.  Maybe it goes all the way back to what people learned in their homes growing up and whether they are good with that.  I don't know. I hope the meeting today helps.  I hope your husband somehow becomes more mindful about the smoking in the house for the sake of your boy.  Just a suggestion if you're open to it ... Maybe for the sake of your son's well-being, telling your husband when he does remembers that you appreciate that he took his smoking outside might quell any underlying resentment and increase awareness.  (((hugs)))  TT

 



__________________

Surround yourself with people and elements that support your destiny, not just your history.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 125
Date:

I've only heard one live speaker and one speaker tape where the al anon member was living sanely and happily with an active alcoholic spouse. I cried at the live speaker meeting because what she described was my life. Most times it seems like the AH or AW finds AA and sobers up or the couple divorces or the alcoholic dies. Very sad to me. I'm new in al anon-- first meeting was 12/16---and I've got my work cut out for me with regard to myself.

__________________


Newbie

Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date:

**(Whole reply edited by John... removed.)**  Robert please find somewhere else to do your drunkish Al-Anon bashing.  I don't care whether you haven't had a drink in 6 minutes or 6 years, what you are doing here would only serve to show us clearly that a person does not need to drink alcohol to behave, think, and have the attitude of a drunk.  Please take the focus off us here in Al-Anon and go put the focus on yourself in AA.  We'll be fine without you trying to chaperon us as a group, and guide us to your way of alcoholic thinking.  We have already had enough of that in our life times.  As did your ex wife obviously.  Any further such material on this board from you and I will not edit, I will delete your post completely and ban you from having any further access to the this board.  You belong on the AA board, not here.  Go there and recover from yourself.

John

PS. SMILELY99. I APOLOGIZE THAT THIS IS TAKING PLACE DURING YOUR SHARE HERE AND WANT TO ASSURE YOU THAT YOU ARE NOT AT FAULT FOR ANY OF IT WHATSOEVER.  WHAT YOU HAVE SHARED HERE IS WELL WITHIN THE PRINCIPLES, FORMAT AND PROTOCOL OF AL-ANON.  PLEASE CONTINUE TO SHARE AS YOU ARE, AND WE'LL DO WHAT IT TAKES TO KEEP A ALCOHOLIC FROM DISPENSING HIS ADVISE ON THIS BOARD AND REDIRECT HIM TO THE CORRECT BOARD BETTER ABLE TO SERVE HIS NEEDS.  iF THIS FAILS, WE'LL SIMPLY PUT A BAN IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOES NOT CONTINUE TO HAPPEN DURING YOUR OR ANY OTHER MEMBERS SHARES.

((((HUGS))))


-- Edited by el-cee on Wednesday 25th of February 2015 03:17:44 AM



-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 25th of February 2015 07:16:02 AM



-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 25th of February 2015 07:16:32 AM



-- Edited by John on Sunday 1st of March 2015 02:23:15 PM

__________________
When the 12 steps are done simply and thoroughly, it fundamentally transforms people.


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5075
Date:

Hey Robert Breen, I edited your post. Please try hard to be respectful of others.

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5075
Date:

I dont have time to read everything you say but I suspect there is more editing to come.

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 17196
Date:

Since you are a recovering alcoholic I suggest that you would be better served on the AA side of MIP. Your opinion of Al-Anon and Al-Anon members is just  that -your opinion" and since Tradition 10 states:". Al-Anon family groups have no opinion on outside issues hence our nameought never be drawn into public controversy."

I also edited your posting and removed all the "Alanon Bashing".



__________________
Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 687
Date:

Someone once told me that an alcoholic is the emotional age of whenever he or she began drinking. For example my ex probably began drinking sneaking beers from his alcoholic parents at about 13 and drinking a lot in the open about 15 as best I can tell from his stories, maybe younger.

He had the reasoning, sense of humor and personality and interest of a young teenage boy. And oh yes, if I asked anything regarding boundries like not smoking in the house you can bet the opposite would be done.

As to your question of what are your odds of remaining sane living with an alcoholic, honestly even with a lot of program work no one I ever heard of has the kind of life most people think of as sane. Life is more bearable with al anon,  but I would have had to live every second of my life just trying to remain sane, I don't ever think it would have been easy, peaceful and happy.

My question for you, what are the odds of your son growing up peaceful, happy and becoming a successful mature adult who is sober? You are responsible for him and more than anything he deserves a peaceful, happy, confident Mommy.

It took me a long time and almost loosing my life, literally to come back to myself. You do not sound as far gone as I was, I pray you and your son never will be. Alcoholism never ever is healed, rarely in remission and always results in pain for everyone around it.

Even IF they stop drinking and join AA and work a program like crazy alcoholics are always alcoholics and by it's very nature alcoholism is self centered, projects it's problems on others, and to me is very critical of others to the point where the "others" begin to  believe they are the ones with the problem,,, and sometimes they are. SAD, SAD, SAD!

The good news for me is that even though I am still not "cured" from my al anon self and may never be, I now feel peace and happiness most of the time.. and when I don't I know were to look to get back on track.

Hope you'll keep coming back here but more so I hope you'll attend a lot of face to face alanon meetings. This board alone is only a small view of al anon. Take the baby if you have to, everyone likes babies even if they cry.

Hugs!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by glad on Wednesday 25th of February 2015 07:49:27 AM



-- Edited by glad on Wednesday 25th of February 2015 08:44:37 AM

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5663
Date:

Whether it's the disease or a personality trait that causes selfish, self-centered behavior is kind of a moot point. I know that we call them "character defects" and try and work on them diligently as if they were traits. They are more than just the result of drinking because the selfishness and self-centeredness don't go away as soon as the person stops drinking. They have to work a program. It may be that the qualities are the result of a long period of sustained drinking...similar to what Glad stated....the person is stuck at an earlier age of emotional development (or even regressed backwards in my belief).

Whether or not you can be happy with an active alcoholic - Well, that depends on what your needs are for a relationship. Some people are able to detach largely and enjoy the limited times they share with their alcoholic spouse when the spouse is sober...it happens. For me, I want more from a relationship. I don't want to be detached 80 or 90 percent of the time, take separate vacations or whatever I would need to do in order to maintain serenity with an active alcoholic.

Not to mention for me personally, I feel like alcohol ruined my whole life for a period. I feel like it's a horrible drug that doesn't help anybody much and is really relatively useless even in moderation. So...being around active drunks in denial is literally painful for me. It brings back painful memories of when I was that person and also had so much drama and pain in my life mostly due to alcohol.

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 687
Date:

Me too Pink Chip! I'm not comfortable around drunks even when they are not close to me at all. I need to work on detachment I'm sure.

It does remind me of all the pain, I love country music, but can't stand to listen to drinking songs... it's as if I want to scream..." it's not funny, it's hurtful" at the radio..



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 239
Date:

I am with Glad on this. I too have been told that whatever age a user started using is the emotional age they become. I have said from DAY ONE that i met my AH is TWELVE. He has his first recollection of drinking at age FOUR (not 14) and by 12 was shoplifting bottles of booze. BTW he is an alcoholic and he is my husband so here he is my AH but he's also my DH (which could be DEAR or DAMN depending on how I feel at the time I write)


I think that he's acting like a conflicted child. MY personal take on this is that alcoholism while a disease is also a form of coping and self-medicating for those people who have deep seated long term issues that they have not worked out.

Getting clean and sober is step one
then you have step two which is working on the issues that have either been caused by long term drinking or were the cause of the long term drinking...that's the HARD part.

just like dieting.... taking off the weight is easy KEEPING off the weight is the hard part.


I think that for YOU personally your AH's behavior is how the disease manifests itself IN YOUR SPOUSE. But I do think that the underlying behavior that is brought out by the alcohol is the direct issue.

good luck. keep coming back. keep an open mind.



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 10
Date:

I love your post as it reminds me of one way al-anon taught me to take care of myself, with some BOUNDARIES. Boundaries are limits I set for myself. I can see you have tried to set a limit on your husband, stating to him what you need. (and I would be setting those limits myself, my friend.) Here's the thing, I can certainly communicate to my loved ones what I can live with, and what I cannot. However........ I cannot control whether or not they are going to respect the boundary, I am powerless over that.

Either way, setting boundaries lets me know where the relationship stands. and I get to decide what to do about that.

I can do the same thing over and over.... and over and over, in my case, because I am an adult child with a very high tolerance for abuse..... Or..... I can accept that I simply cannot live this way. In many cases, I have had to be pretty bloody before I could accept that. I felt stuck in victimhood for most of my life.

I "keep coming back" because today I confidently believe that my Higher Power wants ME to love myself enough to overcome my doubts over whether or not I deserve more love, joy and peace in my life. "Let it begin with me" is one of my favorite slogans.



-- Edited by FROG on Wednesday 25th of February 2015 10:13:34 AM

__________________
Finally Relying on God


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 1662
Date:

I had very weak boundaries with my ah even after starting
Alanon. It is hard to change our long term behaviors, we really
Need to dig into our own recovery to change us on the inside.
Self love,self care and self acceptance were big steps for me
Then when i got all that i gave over my will to God.

My ah is a controlling man and he wants things his own way
And he has a very forceful personality. It was hard to change
His behaviors or actions especially when they started becoming
really Unacceptable.

My one real option was 12 years ago i should have just left
The jerk but instead i stood by my man because he was having
A hard time adjusting to life on land. I kept hoping for he best.
I kept thinking he would see the light. How very wrong i was
About everything.

Alanon has opened my eyes and heart to my inner healing.
Listening And learning in meetings. Growing and changing for me
Not him. My ah is on his own journey with his own HP.

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 472
Date:

i agree with alot u said but there are some of us who are stuck in an alcoholic relationship because

we dont have the job or money to leave

we have some limitations physically that keeps us back

i always tell my friends that it isnt easy to leavy when u are 57.at 20 you can take a pair of jeans and leave... alot differnt with 25 yrs under your belt with this person...

This past time , i felt alot of false bravado but when faced with outragious rates for rentals/share situations etc, and lack of jobs to get to re enter work at 57, and no support from family or others,my baloon was deflated. i couldnt even take out MY pension money without ah,s signature.

ah is in rehab at present.

 



__________________
ALYCE R KINIKIN


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 22
Date:

Robert Breen - I do not generally refer to my husband as my AH. I only do so here because abbreviations are easy and it clarifies who the alcoholic in my life is. I also refer to my husband as my best friend, a loving father, a hard worker, a loyal brother, a caring son, the love of my life, etc. I am very much aware that there is more to my husband than this disease. In fact, that's why I stay with him.

el-cee and hotrod - I did not read Robert Breen's comments before they were edited but I apologize if any part of my post caused disrespectful or offensive reactions. That was not my intention.

Glad and Ladybugnessa - I have heard about the alcoholic being the emotional age of when they started drinking, which I believe puts my husband at right around 13 or 14. So, I guess that there's some truth to the thought that keeps popping in to my head that I'm dealing with a teenager!

All of these posts and my meeting last night have brought me back to the mentality that I need to work on being the healthist person I can be. Not just for my son's sake, but for mine as well. I'm having surgery next month, so now is not the time to make any major life decisions. I'm going to give myself the gift of time right now. Time to recover from surgery, time to work the program, time to enjoy my son and husband, if possible. Maybe I will be able to find serenity in that time and be happy and sane in spite of the disease. Maybe I won't. I'm going to try to not let whether or not my husband chooses to get sober dictate my happiness anymore. That's up to me. Thanks everyone!

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 17196
Date:

Smiley your post had nothing to do with the edits of Robert's posting.
You were clear and perfectly within program principles.



__________________
Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 687
Date:

Yarncrazy, I just want to say I understand. I really do! And I'm so happy you have al anon to help you find your peace and hopefully give you some much needed support. Every person's journey is different.



__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 13696
Date:

 

 

I go with "keep it simple" and "simplest is best" and I also go with what the elders brought into my recovery which I accepted then and do so still.   It is simplest and once I get it, it stays with me and I rely on it when I need to.  

Alcohol is a mind and mood altering disease.  It alters the person and therefore alters also those in relationship that person.  I have to be different in order to be with the altered. That makes sense up to when I learn that If I don't want to for what ever reason I can detach from the person, place or thing which is different.   Living within alcoholism was natural for me...I was born and raised within the insanity and what came from it was fulfillment of a daily expectation.  People who were not as crazy as us were weird and I couldn't figure them out and often didn't try to as I behaved as an altered person with the world around me.   They thought I was crazy also...it was mutual.  When I left my family I took my practice of the disease with me which included marrying women who also had it even when it was suggested that I not.

For me the consequences of the disease revealed itself within my personality.  I became what I behaved and how I thought.  I rejected the insanity in insane ways and arrived at the door of Al-Anon suicidal.  Insanely isn't a healthy way to live.  I finally came to understand I was crazy and had been that way most of my life.  I had diagnosable disabilities when I came to Al-Anon including a second personality which was adaptive to the disease.  Some of us get sicker than others.  

I don't see much of a difference between Alcoholic behavior and personality trait...Considering the Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde description of the alcoholic it is easy for me to accept.  Simple.  The program I found out could free me from my "other" personality as I chose to do after inventory showed me that it was perverse and that I would not like it in anyone else.   I was even able to try to re-instruct my children after discovery by telling them that I was wrong many times in how I acted and what and how I had tried to teach them in the past and that I had learned a new way of living.  It became especially important for me to do that with them because of what I had done while with them before program came into my life.     

Today I try to keep it simple if the person acting out is known to me to be alcoholic ...it is what it is...what am I going to do?  The literature has support for that as well as my sponsor and the meetings in our area which I have just realized has grown to more than 10 Al-Anon meetings a week...Go figure I've got all the excuses in the world to get and stay sane.   Blessed and grateful.    (((((hugs))))) smile



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 326
Date:

Smiley something I have been holding on to I read in a book recently... It said when someone acts our their compulsive behavior it's not because they don't love you it's because they don't love themselves. I have actually dealt with this with my sig other... He has smoked in the house..ha ha he's 45.. Lied.. Perhaps he still does occasionally. Who knows? I did catch him In another lie last week. I thought about not saying anything, but did, hope I can be a bit stronger next time. Progress not perfection... I try to remember it's a disease, he grew up lying and with a lot of shame and guilt. With no recovery one is limited in how much they can grow. They are still using the tools they picked up in childhood and adolescence. I Do my best to keep compassion for myself and others and try to enjoy life..it's a disease. I do my best every day to keep myself fully immersed in my recovery and keep the focus on taking care of myself...somedays a minute at a time. Hugs, love and support :)Angel


__________________

I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 22
Date:

Karma - What you just said is so eye-opening. Now that you mention it, my husband also grew up in an environment with a lot of shame and guilt and I suspect has a great deal of self-loathing, even though he is a sweet, pleasing sort of person for the most part. Thank you so much for reminding me that without recovery, he is still using his tools from childhood. It really makes me remember to have compassion.

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 1662
Date:

That also rings in with my ah. Those are his tools of trade from his childhood.
Guilt and shame are still very powerful. He acts like he is all together but he Falls
short because he is not embracing his recovery in any way. Too painful to face
himself and be honest. It would take a lot for him to be brutally honest and
Face his demons. I hope for his sake he does some day! I can not help him!


__________________


Newbie

Status: Offline
Posts: 3
Date:

Geez... Reply edited by John... (Removed).

Robert, last chance.  Again we do not need nor do we want a alcoholic on this board, acting as our Al-Anon group mentor.  We don't want or need it, and the next time I see it you will be banned.  Go to AA where you belong.  When you actually get some of your own recovery in AA you will come to understand how important it is that we bring your sharing here on this board to a end.  

John                                                                                                                                



-- Edited by John on Sunday 1st of March 2015 02:36:54 PM

__________________
When the 12 steps are done simply and thoroughly, it fundamentally transforms people.
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.