Another Newbie... - Al-Anon Family Group

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

RE: Another Newbie...

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

Sadly, some people dont ever get it. In a way its about honesty, how honest you can get with yourself. How deep are you brave enough to look inwards? No-one is the finished article and no-one is unique. Thinking yourself as different and unique is part of the sickness we suffer from, well in my experience. There are many layers of ourselves that alanon helps and I do believe any human, willing human, can grow with alanon. The symptoms we identify with are not all about the alcoholic. I chose an alcoholic partner because they provided me with something I needed. He was emotionally unavailable, so was I so we fitted. He was emotionally immature, so was I. He had a gaping hole left over from his childhood, so did I. He chose alcohol to fill it I chose other compulsions/obsessions and eventually he was it. I was always going to marry an alcoholic or another person who would never leave me. The rewards I got were numerous, I was the perfect little victim/martyr, look at all I do and look how he behaves, poor me. I also got a sense of self rightousness. I was in charge, in control of everything he was unable to be in charge and control of. I was pretty superior to the average woman, or so I thought. I wont ever be finished with recovery. Theres parts of me I still cant see and dont want to yet. Its not an easy undertaking, its like taking a knife and cutting through our ancient, well worn belief system and thought processes that stopped being beneficial when I was about 13. It can make us feel vulnerablke to discard the bs we collect in our heads but for me it was well worth it and ive got a long way to go still. Many shortcomings remain and persist but Im hopeful. Thanks for sharing, it has been good to think about it from another angle.

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

thank you for saying this. yes i have a lot of work to do.. no i may never get it all done but this was a nice share for me to work on things with.

I don't THINK i feel this way but maybe I do and i'm lying to myself... time will tell I guess.

el-cee wrote:
Sadly, some people dont ever get it. In a way its about honesty, how honest you can get with yourself. How deep are you brave enough to look inwards? No-one is the finished article and no-one is unique. Thinking yourself as different and unique is part of the sickness we suffer from, well in my experience. There are many layers of ourselves that alanon helps and I do believe any human, willing human, can grow with alanon. The symptoms we identify with are not all about the alcoholic. I chose an alcoholic partner because they provided me with something I needed. He was emotionally unavailable, so was I so we fitted. He was emotionally immature, so was I. He had a gaping hole left over from his childhood, so did I. He chose alcohol to fill it I chose other compulsions/obsessions and eventually he was it. I was always going to marry an alcoholic or another person who would never leave me. The rewards I got were numerous, I was the perfect little victim/martyr, look at all I do and look how he behaves, poor me. I also got a sense of self rightousness. I was in charge, in control of everything he was unable to be in charge and control of. I was pretty superior to the average woman, or so I thought. I wont ever be finished with recovery. Theres parts of me I still cant see and dont want to yet. Its not an easy undertaking, its like taking a knife and cutting through our ancient, well worn belief system and thought processes that stopped being beneficial when I was about 13. It can make us feel vulnerablke to discard the bs we collect in our heads but for me it was well worth it and ive got a long way to go still. Many shortcomings remain and persist but Im hopeful. Thanks for sharing, it has been good to think about it from another angle.

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

Great share elcee. So much of what is wrong with me
Are my family of origin issues. Highly dysfunctional
Mother and a A father whom abandoned us and had
Shock treatments and then remarried and forgot
about his children.

My mother is still very highly dysfunctional, my MIL
Is full of isms and a belittler. My Ah was the peach
In the middle or so i thought for years.

We both had our own issues to deal with had brought
Them to the table in our marriage. We seemed to
Make it for 18 years. They were decent, honest and
Honorable years or so i thought.

I am at rhe stage of my recovery and grieving of
Going back thru my marriage for my truths so I
Can move on emotionally. It is very freeing to
Face and deal with the bad then letting it go.
It is also painful and hard work.

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

I keep thinking on this.... really I'm trying. Since you all do not really know me I guess it's hard to see how some folks process things.

IF I get healthy I will probably leave my spouse
I do not want to leave him or stop loving him
this is my fourth marriage and I do not want a failure.

there i said it.

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

I had pretty much that same dilemma Ladybug... I knew if I got healthier, we would be incompatible and I didn't want another break up. Eventually for me (and I'm not saying this will be you), the appeal of getting healthier outweighed the fear of break up. I also eventually felt like not being healthy for me was a bigger failure than a break up. But for now, just keep working...heck, I've seen you processing stuff and working stuff out on the board here just in the last few days...progress progress...

LinSC · Senior Member

You don't know what the future holds when you "get healthy" in Al-anon.

A failure in who's eyes? And do we care what anyone else thinks? And will it feel like a failure when you're "healthy". Its hard to say what will happen, we do have control of ourselves, but not the outcome.

I think "loving" someone is doing what is best for the one we love, we don't have to stop loving someone, but we may have to change the way we love them. my 2 cents, take what you want and leave the rest.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Ladybug...I'm glad to be here with the others reading the post and now especially this one. I get to remember how I came in, where I came from and the many lessons and tools the fellowship and my sponsors left me with. As I said I was more then than now, "Oppositionally Defiant". It is who I was then. I resisted and only part of the justification I used was, "I am different than you people". One huge consideration my sponsor gave me after I recited justifications for being different was a question which begged an answer, "Could you be wrong"? I couldn't and wouldn't honestly be able to say no to that question and when my head entertained the truth, "yes" doors swung open and then fell off of their jambs. Of course I could be wrong...teach me. My sponsor gave me his definition of humility which was a word and idea I refused to entertain at that time because it sounded much more like humiliation that I was use to being born and raised within the disease. "Humility", he gave me, "is being teachable". I stopped being teachable when fear became the greatest emotional character defect I had which grew my ODD. Look for the similarities worked for me tons. Keep coming back. ((((hugs)))) smile

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

Pinkchip
LinSC
and
JerryF

thank you all for your input... it's helping.

keep talking to me (AND AT ME when I'm being stubborn) eventually it may work.

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Hello Ladybugnessa,

I love the energy in this thread, thank you for kicking it all off!

As I read these posts I am reminded of the conversations that I have in my own head, I think of it as my ego talking to my soul. Things that my ego tells my soul include that I can do what others can't; that I am walking the walk (when I know that in many respects I am not); that I am aiming to be my husband's friend and lover and not his counsellor (my soul agrees with that one but points out that sometimes I seem to enjoy unravelling the challenges that his behaviour lays down for me!); that no one says well done to me for the number of days that our household stays booze free (feel free to visualise a slight self pitying pout with that one); that I thought that I would be appreciated for toughing it out instead of being reminded of all the moments when I lost my cool. The list goes on.

I like the Alanon programme because, as Jerry points out, I like its humility. Humility doesn't mean that I can't do great things, just that I'm much the same as most folks and my goal is to do what seems right for me. I also like to be reminded that I have a life to live outside of alcoholism and my goal is to enjoy that other life and live it to the full.

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

I agree with everyone great thread. We all struggle even people
That been at it for a long time. Most of us come from dysfunction and/
Or alcoholism. We would never have hooked up with an alcoholic
In the first place. I consider myself as a wounded bird in need of
Healing and recovery.

My ah leaving 7 months ago did not make me happy but i was out
Of his abuse. I found i could not begin to heal when i was in my
Protective shell. It was not safe to be open and honest. Warning
Signs danger ahead, protect yourself. Most of that comes from my
Childhood with an abusive mother. My own coping skills, were sadly
lacking.

I am learning with the help of alanon and all these great folks on
MIP.

You are not the only one that is a po'd wife. I think there is a whole
Bunch of us here. We are all trying to get healthy for ourselves and
Our sanity one way or another.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Okay...Keep talking with and to me...that is the invitation I learned...."Help me...please" Help me to understand even when my ODD personality was trying to keep you all at arms length and further.

When I was a newbie and for sometime after that the fellowship use to suggest and invite me to leave a meeting. Why? because my defiance would at times be disruptive and it is the group that is important and not Jerry F. And so at different times and in different language I would be told that if I could not participate in a "group manner" to "Shut the .... up and get out or participate as a group member. Thank what ever God or HPs who we in the rooms at that time who each time helped me to "sit the hell down and listen" and then accept the miracle they offered with "Keep coming back". As one can imagine it was deeply confusing and then just for me because the fellowship knew and had learned that which I had not yet which was group participation. I still remember Margaret S at 72 years of age and blue silver hair challenging me with "STFU and sit down or leave" holding on at the end of that meeting and embracing me with more love than I could imagine being worthy of. The program hugged the pain out of me and replaced the holes with understanding and the open invitation to "keep coming back". The best I can do today within the program is exactly what and how they treated me and I do.

(((((Keep coming back...always in support))))) smile

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

So glad you ke9t coming back jerry. I hope you do to ladybug.x

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

Wow if someone told me to leave. Yeah I'd leave. And I'd never go back.

this program will NOT work for everyone and it is NOT the only program available.

-- Edited by ladybugnessa on Thursday 26th of February 2015 06:48:53 AM

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Considering the outcome ladybug I agree that following their suggestions worked much, much better than running off. For me I consider the process up to the moment a HP abided journey. I had a more greatly inflated ego then along with the testosterone however for the first and best time in my life I did the opposite which resulted in achieving the opposite consequences. As I've said before...I didn't know and didn't even know that I didn't know about our disease then. I'm glad I sat down to listen, then learn and then practice, practice, practice. Just for me. I know lots who have left and remain in the problem, the disease. Keep coming back. (((hugs))) smile

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

Ha, Jerry, I love the image of that silver blue haired lady. And brave old you for following through on her blunt advice!

I'm like Ladybug, if someone told me to leave, my first reaction would be to do so. But reading your story and Ladybug's response I was struck by the fact that I told my husband to get his **** together or get out because his behaviour was so disruptive. We are not so different after all!!

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

I had a good meeting last night and I wanted to say I am very glad that this thread is positive and folks are finding merit in it.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

OH Yay for good meetings!!!! How much of it was good be cause of their attitudes or yours? I ask that because early on when I was soooo different than them, the meetings sucked and I didn't like them at all. After my attitude changed I saw them and their meetings differently and my head started to nod up and down when they spoke. Good on you and for you. What was different? (((((hugs))))) smile

ladybugnessa · Senior Member

Good Question Jerry,

What was different... hmm.. well a lot of it was because of what I get from here. Seriously. I decided to really just listen for a change.

and then when I walked into where I consider my "home group" although I have not signed up for it yet... and I was the first one there and i sat down and i started reading by blue book on my kindle and then someone I know and like walked in (he's the secretary this month) and we talked a bit in our before meeting. then folks walked in and most of them are folks I see at this meeting and even other meetings and we smile and I opted NOT to share even though it was a small meeting... (everyone else shared twice)

Well the speaker starts off with I"m crazy.   And that helped. And I thought maybe she could be my sponsor because she gets me and won't judge me but I realized I'm afraid to ask her. And then the woman I KNOW SHOULD be my sponsor practically BEGGED for sponsees.... saying how it helps her.    She joined Al-anon when she was my age and has been working it for 15 years.

So I've found two women that i can ask. But now I am dealing with why I have not asked... and I had after the meeting told my husband that I was scared of getting better because it means I may want to leave him.

HARD work is being done in this house....

Then my Best Friend yesterday who is an a former Al-a-teen member and now an ACOA who does not go to meetings... told me I can have more than one sponsor... and things are moving along.

We have plans to go to new meetings tonight at the same place, he to his AA meeting and me to Al-anon (I like when we can go to the same place kiss goodbye and say "have a good meeting" then meet after....

one day at a time.... but give it 6 meetings... needs to be   give it as long as you need.

btw almost everyone who spoke Wednesday night about this was in Al-anon for TWO YEARS before they started getting it and working hard.

THAT too resonated with me... talk the talk till you can walk the walk.

Jerry F wrote:

OH Yay for good meetings!!!! How much of it was good be cause of their attitudes or yours? I ask that because early on when I was soooo different than them, the meetings sucked and I didn't like them at all. After my attitude changed I saw them and their meetings differently and my head started to nod up and down when they spoke. Good on you and for you. What was different? (((((hugs)))))

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Great awareness and growth ladybug Keep on keeping on.

Mirandac · ~*Service Worker*~

Ladybug you faced your fears! I understand where you are coming
From when you fear losing your marriage. I loved getting healthy
But it does change the dynamics. Keep going and getting better for
Yourself. You can only change you. Enbrace yourself as a good
Person that needs self love,self care and self acceptance.

By the time i started alanon my marriage was over. I wished i
Started alanon 30 years ago for me. I would have understood the
Disease and behaviors better. I would have been able to see what
Was happening more clearly in my life But that is hindsight i didnt
Attend. My ah was dry our whole marriage but not his behaviors.
I got as sick as he was in a different way to cope.

Good luck on choosing a sponsor, you can have two if you so
Desire. It all takes time and effort to grow and change. I have
Been having growing pains. It takes honesty on our part in a
gentle way! One day you will be ready to hand your will over
To Your HP. That is freeing, you top trying to force solutions.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

LB...that sounded different and it drove into my own experiences and I found my self holding my breath a bit (I do that watching the miracle unfold) and then tearing (really!!!...don't tease!) up with the honesty and humility colors. I remember the "stop fighting it" period which was longer than 5 years to the point where I thought "I show them, I'll go to college where they really know"!! and I did and remember standing on the front steps of CSCC Fresno and hearing my awareness tell me, "You could have learn most of that in Al-Anon". I led my own recovery until I found sponsorship and then I followed what worked for others. I had multiple sponsorship even suggested by my main sponsor Don"T. "When in doubt Don.T and Don.T react". His body has past and he lives still within me. Thank you HP...for Don.T...Al-Anon and MIP and thank you also for Ladybug's experience to show me this works when you work it again.

I like the experience of shared meeting sites...AA and Al-Anon and of course the wish..."Have a good meeting". That for me is what love sounds like and speaks like. YAY!!

(((((hugs))))) smile

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