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Post Info TOPIC: Another Newbie...


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Another Newbie...


well I'm not new to message boards but I'm new to this one.

 

I am going to meetings locally but they are NOT resonating with me.     I'm  doing the readings but again they don't resonate.  I've been to multiple groups and multiple meetings.  I tend to leave the meetings ANGRY.    

 

how much time do I give it before I say it doesn't work?

 

thanks



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



~*Service Worker*~

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Hi lady bug, what is going on that you are going to
Alanon? Do you have an active A? I got a lot out of
My meetings just by listening,learning and absorbing.
My ah was dry but we still had major problems.

Usually when i was at a meeting i heard what i needed
To hear. Doesnt mean you have to do more than that.
It is recomended you wait 6 months to a year before
Any major changes unless there is abuse and danger.

I can see the wisdom of that now. I am much stronger
And more focused. I had weak boundaries with my ah
Those are hard to change when you are in the thick of it.

I really only started my real recovery after ah left 7
Months ago.i had been attending alanon for 2+ years.

Also sponsors are a great resource to show you the
Way and help you on your journey.

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I should add, that my AH is sober 47 days today. He went to rehab because I refused to bail him out of jail unless he went to detox and rehab and completed rehab and was ACTIVELY working a program. I got to multiple groups and have been to multiple meetings at them.


I have never lied about my husband's drinking or his behavior. I have no shame from his addiction. I am not the reason he drinks. I am not the cause of his behavior and I never thought I was.


I went to Al-anon to learn to cope with his drinking/getting sober. I have told him if he drinks again the marriage is over and I mean it and he knows this. His ONLY reason for not drinking is to stay married to me.

He is the poster child for dry drunk.



Sadly we are East coast USA and this is the winter of our discontent. we miss more meetings that we make at this point.


I did go to an open AA meeting with him last week.. much better for me in terms of the feelings I got from the meeting.



If he's going to meetings I need to go to meetings.. it seems only fair.


__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



~*Service Worker*~

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Welcome ladybug, Al-Anon suggest that you make six different meetings before deciding if the program is for you. The reason that this is suggested is that we often come in to meetings angry looking for a quick solution to the dreadful problem of alcoholism.

We want someone to tell us what to do to fix the alcoholic.When I found that Al-Anon is not going to give me informaiton to fix the alcoholic I was disappointed!!!. I really believed , if the alcoholic stopped drinking , everything would be fine, and our lives perfect.  Not so!!! The negative affect of this disease is long lasting and even if I ended the  marriage I would need a  program of recovery.

Living with the disease of alcoholism ,we develop many negative attitudes and responses that do not help us live our lives in a constructive way. The Al-Anon program is and set up in order to help us rediscover ourselves and our ability to respond and not react to the negativity around us.

It is all a process and takes time and effort and is not a magic solution. I know when I first attended meetings. I left feeling comforted and a sense of serenity, but still angry. The people there seemed to with courage serenity and wisdom. Although they were dealing with the same insanity. I was they were doing it gracefully. I made up my mind to keep an open mind, and keep coming back as was suggested and I'm glad I did.

Breaking the isolation caused by living in the disease of alcoholism is extremely important. That is one of the tremendous benefits of face-to-face meetings. Connecting with others who truly understand, helped me to be able to feel safe enough to get honest and surrender.
We have online meetings here twice a day and I urge you to try them as well. Keep coming back. The program works but we have to work it.

I live in NYC and do undertand the difficultiy in attending meetings in the cold  Going tonight anyway   



__________________
Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


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Date:

Mirandac wrote:

Hi lady bug, what is going on that you are going to
Alanon? Do you have an active A? I got a lot out of
My meetings just by listening,learning and absorbing.
My ah was dry but we still had major problems.

Usually when i was at a meeting i heard what i needed
To hear. Doesnt mean you have to do more than that.
It is recomended you wait 6 months to a year before
Any major changes unless there is abuse and danger.

I can see the wisdom of that now. I am much stronger
And more focused. I had weak boundaries with my ah
Those are hard to change when you are in the thick of it.

I really only started my real recovery after ah left 7
Months ago.i had been attending alanon for 2+ years.

Also sponsors are a great resource to show you the
Way and help you on your journey.


HI Mirandac

 

Thank you for the reply.

 

I'm going to Alanon because my husband is an alcoholic.  He is  sober 47 days.  He only got sober because I refuse to live with an active alcoholic any longer.    AT this point hes in recovery but its so new.    He got to rehab via the detention center.   I live with a violent drunk.    We have court on April 14th.    I do not think he will be out of rehab (hes at the half a day outpatient level now 4 days a week)

 

WE as a married couple have issues.   He has his issues. I have mine.  My addictions are food and people.  I get addictions.  I myself have a degree in psych. I have raised two children one of which is special needs.  My aunt wrote her masters thesis on growing up in a dysfunctional family.   I know the talk. I can talk the talk and walk the walk.  

 

I know that any changes need to be on hold for a year.I am willing to give him a year of dry drunk before I mandate the next step.  His choice will be if he is willing to comply or not. I DO NOT make idle threats.   IF I say  GET sober or GET OUT I mean it.  He knows this.   WE do not play  typical games.  He has never lied about his drinking to me.  To himself yeah.   But not to me.   

 

As for recovery,  when you say you  couldnt start recovery till your AH left. Well thats NOT good news.  Hes not leaving and I dont want him to leave but everything Im hearing and seeing and being told is that I HAVE TO LEAVE. That if I stay Im lying to myself.    I cant accept that Al-anons only concern is ME.   Im sorry MY MARRIAGE is a concern to me too.  And I want to try to save it.  IF helping him help himself is wrong, well then I guess I dont want to be right.

 

As for sponsors so far  no one has made me feel like they would be a good sponsor Im still looking.

 

Thanks for replying again.  I appreciate all the help I can get. 

 

I think hubby and I do NOT fit the typical molds for Addicts and spouses.  I know his rehab had to apologize to us at least TWICE for treating us the way they normally deal with folks and then having to back pedal when our actions and responses were not what they were expecting.



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



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HI Hotrod, 

 

Thank you for your reply.   I can see you know all the rules   

 

I did not go to Al-anon to figure out how to fix him. I KNOW I cant fix him and never expected them to help me fix him.  

 

I do not feel comfort at the meetings.  I do not feel serenity. 

 

While my mind is OPEN and I will keep going back,   Im sick and tired of being told HOW I feel and how I react based on what Al-anon THINKS I have done in the past.  

 

I dont see how a parent of a teen who is in Al-anon can even begin to relate to me.  Im sorry.     A parent does not leave a teen.    But the fact that I choose to stay with my spouse seems to infuriate everyone.   I know Im not supposed to feel judged but trust me, if you sit in a room full of Parents of users and adult children of users and you are the ONLY spouse its isolating.

 

I dont feel isolated outside of the meetings.   How is my husband being a drunk isolating me?

 

I have work

I have my kids (grown)

I have my friends

 

 

Parents of addicts and children of addicts dont get it.   They dont understand.     

 

 

I know my faults.

I know my higher power

I know my good points too.

 

Again.. .what I am I supposed to be taking away from these meetintgs when all I ever feel from THREE different meetings is either  being ignored, or being judged wow.

 

 

Thanks for replying and if you read my rant thanks for reading.

 

 

 



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



~*Service Worker*~

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I dont know if you are aware but your coming across really angry and this maybe why your not getting what you want to hear. What do you want to hear?

Alanon gave me and many thousands of people their life back, literally. People say to have an open mind at meetings you look for the similarities on what others share with you and not the differences. Theres always something thats said that iclicks with me, regardless of the situation. Ive lived with an alcoholic husband and i got sick with symptoms that hotrod described. I did isolate myself from family and friends because i was ashamed of his drinking. I was full of bitterness, anger resentment and i was thoroughly utterly miserable. I did leave, that doesnt mean i would tell anyone thats what they should do or judge them, in fact i have alanon friends whom i admire a great deal for stickjng with it and working on themselves while still married. I think it takes a lot of courage.
Dont give up on alanon if you really want to change things in your life. This is where you get the help and support.

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~*Service Worker*~

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Hi ladybug, I read your share and can understand what you are saying. I entered Al-Anon, as the wife of an alcoholic, who obtained treatment at a rehab and became sober and remained that way for six years until he died of cancer. I stayed with him. We worked out a relationship and the marriage survived. I am also the parent of a child who died from this disease. In both instances the tools that I developed in Al-Anon saved my life.

There are different Al-Anon meetings and I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable and a parent of an alcoholic meeting. If I was not a parent . There are a variety of meetings that you might find more productive. They are beginners meetings, step meetings, discussion meetings

The isolation of which I spoke was very real to me and to many who enter Al-Anon. I did not have a place where I felt I could be honest about who I was. In Al-Anon I discovered I was not my job, my title, my beliefs and my opinions. That underneath all of this was my "true self " and that was what I needed to connect with in order to grow spiritually, emotionally and physically.


I am sorry if you feel judged or ignored  at meetings. I know thats many of my family attended Al-Anon and refused to return. They could find no comfort nor benefit to them-- I on the other handfound it saved my life. In Al-Anon we don't give advice, because we believe that the right answers for each person is within that person and trusting the process is what works. If you decide to try the other meetings available you might find them helpful. Maybe just coming back here and sharing is all you want and that is fine too.

. We have a saying in Al-Anon that recommends that each of us" take what you like and leave the rest ". I hope you do likewise



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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


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Thank you for replying el-cee.     

 

And if I came across as  NOT really angry would it make a difference?  Should it?   

 

I guess this whole  one size fits all do it as we say and it will work but you have to believe it  is an issue for me. 

 

I want to be told HOW to do things Im told to do.   Detach with love how?  What does that even MEAN.  YOU all say  detach with love but then no one gives concrete REAL examples.

 

I do look for similarities. I find none at Al-anon.  At least at an AA meeting I get to laugh when someone says something that makes sense.  

 

I dont isolate from family or friends.   And I have never lied for him.  I am NOT ashamed of HIS drinking.  HIS drinking is NOT about me nor is it my fault nor does it speak to me as a person or my effectiveness as a spouse.

 

The only time Im physically ill is when he was drunk and angry and violent.   NOT drunk is NOT violent.    

 

Im not angry at him.   He is what he is. He has a disease.   He also had a  lousy childhood that left him with PTSD that gets NO respect because hes not a war vet.   His alcoholism is genetic, hes at least 3rd gen.  

 

Im not bitter or resentful.   I made my choice. I just want to figure out how to make it work.   

 

I didnt say I was giving up on Al-anon. Im just trying to find a way to make it work when apparently NONE of what I was supposed to be doing before I decided to get healthy is what I was doing.

 

 

again, thank you for sharing.



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



~*Service Worker*~

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Hi ladybug,

I'm not that familiar with what you are feeling I think. When I went to my first meetings, I didn't get it, I didn't understand how my enabling would not help my alcoholic wife, how letting my boundaries get trampled on were hurting her as much as me. It sounds like you never have had a problem with shame or some of the other overwhelming emotions that a codependent coalcoholic can have. Or at least that is how I am reading this.

I don't know what kind of meetings you are going to. If there isn't some laughter at a meeting, I wouldn't return there either. If people can't laugh, then there may be in too much pain, or too much shame, or people aren't really opening up.

When we say detaching with love, there are many examples in our daily readers of this. If you read HotRod's post at http://alanon.activeboard.com/t59680688/thoughts-on-one-day-at-a-time-reading-for-monday-2-23-2015/ she has some concertete things to say.  Adn we can come up with more if you like.

You have already stated many of the prerequisites for detaching with love.  If you know he has a disease, and can't help himself, that is a biggie.  Now, if when he does something irritating you can leave and just separate yourself, without belittling the alcoholic, but just stating that you are leaving because of unacceptable behavior.  And when you come back, no belittling either, just coming back and seeing how things are going and checking in.  That's kinda the idea.  Not just leaving and never coming back (as I have been tempted a number of times) nor leaving and acting like you just don't ever care to see him again.

This is how I have done it anyway.  If wife would binge and pass out, I wouldn't yell at her, and not confront her, just leave, either physically or mentally, and when I come back ask her how she is doing, make sure she knows I still love her, but don't engage any more so as not to set off a post-binge argument, which would easily happen with my wife.  I certainly wasn't great at it, but I wanted to stay with her.  And we are still together today, and she is over 1 1/4 years sober.

If you keep going, or coming here if you are more comfortable here, you will learn a number of things, you will just nee an open mind.  Perhaps you already know some of the things that are being said, that's great, we have a slogan that say "take what you like and leave the rest".  Things will come to you in due time that you wouldn't have recognized just a couple of days before sometimes.

And BTW we are not supposed to give advice in Al Anon, either aggressively or passively.  If you are uncomfortable at meetings because you think everyone is judging you because you are staying, then do try another one.  There are plenty off meetings out there, and we shouldn't be making you feel uncomfortable either way on the subject or leaving or staying.  But you might also want to examine your own motives to see if you are reading too much into what others say at those meetings.

Kenny

 



-- Edited by KennyFenderjazz on Monday 23rd of February 2015 03:46:23 PM

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~*Service Worker*~

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What i meant my real recovery journey was me being
Open and honest and speaking out.Getting out of
The abuse. My ah was attending AA me alanon. So
i kept hoping for the best well the best Did not come.
It only got worse.

My ah did not get emotionally sober in AA only found needy
AA women that adored him. He has been dry for 30
years. Then he told me he wanted a divorce so he
Could have a better relationship with his AA gf.


Our marriage had been in trouble for 11 years
And ah was unwilling to work on the marriage.
Also he became more emotionally and verbally
abusive To me after starting AA. He was getting
In touch with his feelings and emotions what
A ride that was for me!

We are here to support each other on our way
To emotional and spiritual health. It is a very
Painful journey but well worth it!

 

Alanon is truly about our recovery from the effects

of alcoholism. Hang in there! Keep trying to help 

yourself, my ah was not concerned with my thoughts 

or desires especially about his recovery. I was 

very supportive of him but sadly in the end it didnt

matter. It takes two willing people not one To make 

a marriage work. 



-- Edited by Mirandac on Monday 23rd of February 2015 04:06:00 PM

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You sound like you already accept what i struggled to accept. This wasl new to me. I didnt even know it was a disease, it took me a long time to accept that.I cant relate to how you feel, sorry. It took me work on myself to accept i couldnt change things. Do you feel alanon doesnt have anything to offer you? Im sure there are people here who know how you feel. I hope you get the feedback your looking for.

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OH  KennyFenderjazz, thanks... love your Avatar.

I don't think I enable him.  I was hoping Al-anon would show me where I'm wrong on that.  But all they say  is  "don't enable"  but no one tells me what that means.

I have good boundaries  but all they say is  "make boundaries"   I thought I had some but I guess choosing to marry him means I don't.  I don't know all I'm told is get healthy  ,say no, make boundaries,  be selfish and refuse to help him no matter what he asks for.  That's the part that bugs me.  He called from rehab and said "help me find a rehab that's closer to home so I can come home and do meetings by the house so I can find a sponsor"     When I mentioned this at a meeting after a meeting   (we all know what those are) I was told   "tell him NO.  you won't help him!  let his counselors at the rehab you are currently paying 3k to a month help him find a DIFFERENT rehab to pay"  yeah that worked well.... he was not asking me to bring him booze. He was not asking to come home and not do his work. He just wanted a change of venue (for very VALID reasons) but  according to folks that i met at a BEGINNERS meeting, I was to say  "go f*ck yourself your needs are NOT my issue"    Sorry but   HIS needs are partially my issue. I'm his wife.   OUR Marriage is important to both of us and if he asks me for positive help I can't see why I should not provide it.

You are correct.  HIS drinking is NOT my fault. I have no shame about it.  He is a 3rd generation genetic alcoholic.    He came to me broken. I loved him anyway. 

 

 

I think for me part of detaching with love (I already walk away when he's stupid) is that whole  "I WANT an apology when you are stupid"   and learning that he has the right to be abusive (and then I'll leave) but when I come back he's not held accountable for being rude???     



-- Edited by ladybugnessa on Monday 23rd of February 2015 04:09:18 PM

__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



~*Service Worker*~

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Hi,

Only you can decide the answers to those questions. In fact, one of the reasons my wife has been successful is because she was at a rehab near home, found a great sponsor, and can go to meetings with sponsor some (it's still 50 miles away, but better than 100 miles away like her first inpatient center). BUT she had to find that sponsor, and want to participate, and she had to WANT to get into and stay in recovery. She had to learn the coping techniques to deal with life without alcohol, and she hadn't done that - really ever, she had always coped with something - food, sex, alcohol, whatever.

I think it is hard to know when our As are lying to us, trying to take advantage. There are a number of things that i have done for my A that probably a lot of people that have had very sick As would say no to. But they don't have that right in my circumstance. They only get to have the right to tell me what their experience is, then i have the responsibility to do what I think is right given all the rick experience I have gathered, and knowing my individual set of circumstances. We have a slogan that says "No! is a one word sentence" That is only supposed to be used with our As, not with each other!

As far as getting an apology, once he is in recovery you hopefully will get some of them. When my A was active, I would NEVER get an apology, she thought she could never be wrong about anything. That was part where I had to detach, and that was part of why I joined Al Anon when my wife went to that inpatient center the second time, I had a lot of unresolved anger about her drunkenness that I had to resolve, and I couldn't just shove it back in her face. She was ashamed of what she had done, and I couldn't just hold her shameful actions that she couldn't' control over her head, I had to dissipate them via other means. That's why I come here and vent sometimes (a lot more in the early days).

Keep coming back here, and thanks for starting this thread, I think it is quite meaningful.

Kenny

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~*Service Worker*~

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hello. I wanted to suggest a series of books called "Getting them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews. It isnt Al anon but it has helped a lot of people, including some people on this forum.

I left my AH almost a year ago. I know one example of deatching with love. Let's say you come home and find the A passed out on the floor. Instead of trying to wake him up, kick him, scream at him, etc you just calmly place a blanket over him and walk away. Unless, of course, he is in danger of dying or something, then I would call 911. That may be a harsh example, but it makes detachment with love clear in my mind. Detachment also involves not trying to control the A. We dont try to prevent natural consequences. For example, one time I enabled my husband by calling in sick to work for him when he was drunk. In hindsight, I shouldnt have done that and allowed him to face consequences to his actions.

It sounds like the meetings you are going to dont have spouses of alcoholics. That would be hard for me, too. Maybe you can attend other meetings with spouses. Al anon has helped me by hearing I am not alone. It helped me come out of denial. I have a sponsor and I am working the steps....it takes some time. We have a saying "Take what you like, and leave the rest." I dont always agree with what people are saying, but overall the meetings and books help me a lot. "Discovering Choices" is a good al anon book.

I hope I have helped some. I understand your anger. Step 1 is a big one....realizing we are powerless over alcohol.

I just read how he asked you to help him find another rehab. My opinion is he is a grown man who should be capable of doing that on his own or with the help from the rehab. i dont know if the al anon members actually told you to cuss at him...thats not ok...but you can just politely tell him thats his job to find another place. why is it your job? After I kicked my AH out once he had a meltdown and said nobody would help him. (not true) he was at a friends house. So i kept telling him theres a place for you where people will understand you...it called AA and here is their hotline number. sometimes, most of the time, alcoholics tend to act like helpless babies. Toby Rice Drews gives very concrete examples of things you can do, and she helps us to understand the mind of an A. 



-- Edited by Newlife girl on Monday 23rd of February 2015 05:48:29 PM



-- Edited by Newlife girl on Monday 23rd of February 2015 05:54:28 PM

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Living life one step at a time



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KennyFenderjazz wrote:

Hi,

Only you can decide the answers to those questions. In fact, one of the reasons my wife has been successful is because she was at a rehab near home, found a great sponsor, and can go to meetings with sponsor some (it's still 50 miles away, but better than 100 miles away like her first inpatient center). BUT she had to find that sponsor, and want to participate, and she had to WANT to get into and stay in recovery. She had to learn the coping techniques to deal with life without alcohol, and she hadn't done that - really ever, she had always coped with something - food, sex, alcohol, whatever.

I think it is hard to know when our As are lying to us, trying to take advantage. There are a number of things that i have done for my A that probably a lot of people that have had very sick As would say no to. But they don't have that right in my circumstance. They only get to have the right to tell me what their experience is, then i have the responsibility to do what I think is right given all the rick experience I have gathered, and knowing my individual set of circumstances. We have a slogan that says "No! is a one word sentence" That is only supposed to be used with our As, not with each other!

As far as getting an apology, once he is in recovery you hopefully will get some of them. When my A was active, I would NEVER get an apology, she thought she could never be wrong about anything. That was part where I had to detach, and that was part of why I joined Al Anon when my wife went to that inpatient center the second time, I had a lot of unresolved anger about her drunkenness that I had to resolve, and I couldn't just shove it back in her face. She was ashamed of what she had done, and I couldn't just hold her shameful actions that she couldn't' control over her head, I had to dissipate them via other means. That's why I come here and vent sometimes (a lot more in the early days).

Keep coming back here, and thanks for starting this thread, I think it is quite meaningful.

Kenny


 

Again, thanks Kenny

 

This is really a struggle and thankfully for ME making it public does not bother me so I get LOTS of support from LOTS of places.  Every day brings me clarity but days I struggle lots of poor strangers  bear my wrath. 

 

Its so funny to me, last night in a session (to try to find counselors for each of us)  AH was complaining that the NEW rehab does NOT do groups like the OLD rehab.  Apparently he liked the groups at the old rehab but prefers the sleeping situation now.  Oh well cant have it both ways.   

 

Hes trying to find a sponsor.   Thats rough right now as we are in the middle of the WORST FEBRUARY weather we have ever had.   Hard to get to meetings and find someone.  But I get the whole higher power thing.  We went to an open meeting last night (AA meetings I LOVE  its the Al-anon meetings that make me crazy)  but we were VERY VERY late.  And only got to hear 20 minutes.    But after the meeting, someone came up to AH and exchanged phone numbers AS IF HE KNEW AH needed this.   AH found him  OVERLY enthusiastic but it may have been the time frames..  who knows.     The guy offered me a Danish and I declined.  He pushed again and I said to him  thats like offering my husband a beer   he didnt offer again.   But I digress

 

I will admit to calling his office a few times over the last few years.    But if he passed out, I have always let him lie where he was since he managed to make it to bed.  My AH was the MOST functional A I ever saw.   His office had NO CLUE that he was coming in drunk even.  WOW.

 

Again,  I come I vent, I struggle.  My walk is not a straight line but rather a meandering path that stops and smells the roses all too often.

 

Thanks for sharing your insights.

 



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5663
Date:

Well Ladybug....you got a home here. Welcome!

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 239
Date:

Newlife girl wrote:

hello. I wanted to suggest a series of books called "Getting them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews. It isnt Al anon but it has helped a lot of people, including some people on this forum.

I left my AH almost a year ago. I know one example of deatching with love. Let's say you come home and find the A passed out on the floor. Instead of trying to wake him up, kick him, scream at him, etc you just calmly place a blanket over him and walk away. Unless, of course, he is in danger of dying or something, then I would call 911. That may be a harsh example, but it makes detachment with love clear in my mind. Detachment also involves not trying to control the A. We dont try to prevent natural consequences. For example, one time I enabled my husband by calling in sick to work for him when he was drunk. In hindsight, I shouldnt have done that and allowed him to face consequences to his actions.

It sounds like the meetings you are going to dont have spouses of alcoholics. That would be hard for me, too. Maybe you can attend other meetings with spouses. Al anon has helped me by hearing I am not alone. It helped me come out of denial. I have a sponsor and I am working the steps....it takes some time. We have a saying "Take what you like, and leave the rest." I dont always agree with what people are saying, but overall the meetings and books help me a lot. "Discovering Choices" is a good al anon book.

I hope I have helped some. I understand your anger. Step 1 is a big one....realizing we are powerless over alcohol.

I just read how he asked you to help him find another rehab. My opinion is he is a grown man who should be capable of doing that on his own or with the help from the rehab. i dont know if the al anon members actually told you to cuss at him...thats not ok...but you can just politely tell him thats his job to find another place. why is it your job? After I kicked my AH out once he had a meltdown and said nobody would help him. (not true) he was at a friends house. So i kept telling him theres a place for you where people will understand you...it called AA and here is their hotline number. sometimes, most of the time, alcoholics tend to act like helpless babies. Toby Rice Drews gives very concrete examples of things you can do, and she helps us to understand the mind of an A. 



-- Edited by Newlife girl on Monday 23rd of February 2015 05:48:29 PM



-- Edited by Newlife girl on Monday 23rd of February 2015 05:54:28 PM


 

Hello Newlife girl,

 

I will check  getting them sober but the title alone seems to go totally against everything we are being taught.  I did not cause it. I cannot cure it. I cannot control it.  Yes I can contribute to it but  his getting sober needs to be ON HIM.   

 

I can assure you if my DH was passed out I let him lie.     The only thing I can admit to doing would be calling in for him the two times he got arrested for assaulting me  or once in a while in the mornings when he was sick.       Other than that I left him to his cups.

 

Its true most of the meetings dont have spouses.  Its very sad to for me but   the drug of choice around her is heroin and most of the folks in Al-anon seem to be parents of teens or children of old dead folks.   Also spouses who LEFT their A and still go to Al-anon are hard for me as I did not leave and do not plan to leave him.    I really feel like everyone WANTS me to leave whether because they think its better for me or because they think he deserves it or it makes THEM feel better I dont know.    But trust me, staying with an abusive A spouse makes you a social enigma that NO ONE gets and everyone seems to BLAME ME for my choice. 

 

 

I go to meetings. I have an open mind.  There is maybe ONE person who I  would ask to sponsor me except hes  male and I know that is frowned upon but it seems to me that the men that stay with their wives are seen very differently than the women that stay with their husbands.   Maybe its my own baggage I bring; I do not know.   Again one day at a time, one foot in front of the other, 3 steps forward for every 2 steps back yeah yeah yeah I know the drill

 

 

Now here is where everyone will tell me Im wrong. He is a grown man in age only.  Hes used consistently since age 4. He has no clue how to be an adult.    He did not ask me to help him STOP rehab. He did not ask me to help him get drugs. HE ASKED FOR HELP.  IF someone asks for HELP  and its an appropriate request how is telling them to figure it out for themselves the right thing to do?  WHY in the world would I NOT want to help him if his request is appropriate???    Basically they told me to tell him the same thing you did NOT my CIRCUS NOT MY MONKEYS fix yourself.   

 

WHY IS IT MY JOB?   Its not my job to make the choice of which rehab to go to but if my SPOUSE who I LOVE asks me to find other REHABS that are options for him and I give him the phone numbers and contact names how is that a bad thing?   Since he had no library access, no interne, no phone book for our area he had NO TOOLS to do this job.  It would be like  a carpenter being told to fix this nail without a hammer.     

 

Again I see what  everyone is saying that it was not my job to help him find another place but IF a person is  paying a rehab (who makes their money on having you stay in their program) WHY would that rehab do ANYTHING to help that person LEAVE so that they lose money?

 

NOT every addict is the same.  NOT every addict asks for help when they could do the work themselves.      If he was drowning in a pool and asked for a life preserver do I tell him,  learn to swim?

 

 



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pinkchip wrote:

Well Ladybug....you got a home here. Welcome!


 thank you Pink Chip. 



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We are a group of equals here and in alanon. We have trained
People here in this group. But when it is your own life and your own
behaviors That need help we can not see the way out. Thats what
Support groups are for to help each other as equals. Nobody is
Better than the other.

Nobody can tell you to leave your husband. I have been thru that with
Therapist both of them told me to leave my dry ah. I did not i kept going to
Alanon and him to AA but my ah refused to work on the marriage.
It had been dying a slow death for 12 years. He blamed me for all
His unhppiness and still does. Thats where the saying happiness is an
Inside job comes in. Look in our own closets and work out our own
Problems first and foremost. Do not do others inventories only your
Own.

My ah did not like me interferring in his recovery. It is his own journey
With the help of his HP. I left him to his own devices and he attended
2-4 meetings a week. I gave him plenty of room but his behaviors
Became unacceptable, he no longer understood respect, honor,
Or decency. Those are on him not me. He was embracing the addict
Within himself. He does not see it that way or does his mother.
My ah has been a dry alcoholic for 30 years only attending AA for
The last three years. This is his journey wether i like it or not.



-- Edited by Mirandac on Tuesday 24th of February 2015 09:08:27 AM

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Mirandac wrote:

We are a group of equals here and in alanon. We have trained
People here in this group. But when it is your own life and your own
behaviors That need help we can not see the way out. Thats what
Support groups are for to help each other as equals. Nobody is
Better than the other.

Nobody can tell you to leave your husband. I have been thru that with
Therapist both of them told me to leave my dry ah. I did not i kept going to
Alanon and him to AA but my ah refused to work on the marriage.
It had been dying a slow death for 12 years. He blamed me for all
His unhppiness and still does. Thats where the saying happiness is an
Inside job comes in. Look in our own closets and work out our own
Problems first and foremost. Do not do others inventories only your
Own.

My ah did not like me interferring in his recovery. It is his own journey
With the help of his HP. I left him to his own devices and he attended
2-4 meetings a week. I gave him plenty of room but his behaviors
Became unacceptable, he no longer understood respect, honor,
Or decency. Those are on him not me. He was embracing the addict
Within himself. He does not see it that way or does his mother.
My ah has been a dry alcoholic for 30 years only attending AA for
The last three years. This is his journey wether i like it or not.



-- Edited by Mirandac on Tuesday 24th of February 2015 09:08:27 AM


 oh it's possible a year from now I will have had enough of his dry drunk....   I'm not in any way trying to control his recovery.    I think maybe I have an issue with detachment since I'm already WAY MORE DETACHED that a lot of other spouses would be at this point.

 

thanks for the reply



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I will check  getting them sober but the title alone seems to go totally against everything we are being taught.  I did not cause it. I cannot cure it. I cannot control it.  Yes I can contribute to it but  his getting sober needs to be ON HIM.   

 

 


 

Yes, it's a strange title once you start reading the book, because it's really about how you CAN'T get them sober!  She must have figured she would sell more books than if she titled it "The hopelessness of living with an alcoholic"

 

Kenny



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Thanks Kenny I will check it out.

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He has been using since age 4?? Or did you mean 14?? The title of the books "Getting them Sober" is contradictory...it really isnt about how we fix them. I wouldnt recommend a book that goes against al anon principles. Just look it up online for more info. The author explains addiction and how an addict behaves so that we can understand what we are dealing with.

We all have choices to make when living with an alcoholic. Mental and physical safety became my primary concern...especially around my kids.

For me, the love began to fade away and I knew there was more to a relationship than just love. I would suggest you get some al anon books as well.

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"He doesnt know how to act like an adult" I hear you...neither does my AH to a large degree. I felt like I was taking care of another child. I knew I needed a strong man, but he wasnt. I ignored red flags. But, i decided i didnt want to live the rest of my life in fear and anxiety. I also didnt need another child to take care of.

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Kenny...great description of Toby Rice Drews. I bet she titled the books that way to get peoples attention for sure! Good point!

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Newlife girl wrote:

He has been using since age 4?? Or did you mean 14?? The title of the books "Getting them Sober" is contradictory...it really isnt about how we fix them. I wouldnt recommend a book that goes against al anon principles. Just look it up online for more info. The author explains addiction and how an addict behaves so that we can understand what we are dealing with.

We all have choices to make when living with an alcoholic. Mental and physical safety became my primary concern...especially around my kids.

For me, the love began to fade away and I knew there was more to a relationship than just love. I would suggest you get some al anon books as well.


 No  FOUR  as in   his alcoholic father (dead) and grandfather (also dead) used to give him sips from their drinks.  The earliest he REMEMBERS is 4.  By 12 he was shoplifting bottles of booze....

 

I have Alanon blue book (and AA big book) and   a bunch of others that I'm working through a bit at a time.  reading books and doing that w3ork is hard.  My husband won't even start his work till he finds a sponsor as that's what his last (and first and only) rehab has told him.    He keeps telling me the same thing. I keep saying  "keep the focus on yourself"  and  "you work your program and I'll work mine"      

 

it's funny how we are both so committed to fixing the marriage and thankfully we KNOW we have to fix ourselves first.



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Its great you are both working on your own programmes, i think that can make for a good relationship , maybe not easy but it sounds as if you could both give each other some moral support. The blue books my favourite at the moment, i think its a pretty old book but i like it a lot. Did you get a welcome pack atyour meeting? I have found that was all i needed at the beginning, its like bite size chunks of alanon. Personally, I dont recommend the getting them sober books, there are about 5 or 6 volumes and its not conference approved, they are not used in meetings and may confuse things a bit when your new. Although some people have found them useful. Whatever you decide to read, your on the right track anyway.

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We do give each other support. We both love each other with all our faults and as we say "his broken fits my crazy" I do have a newcomers pack and a lot of other info and i read what I can but I can only do it in small bites to get a lot of meaning out of it.

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Hi Ladybug, and welcome to the Miracles In Progress Al-Anon Family Group forum.  

I spent some time reading your post, and replies to post of others, as well as all the replies others have written here to you.

I am a person who has been on both sides of the fence, in a long term alcoholic relationship, and also with a son, who is both alcoholic and addict.

This being the case, I am wondering if you are over looking the similarities between the feelings generated in you and those are around you who are parents?

I mean, I have cringed when the telephone rang at night... regardless of which one has not arrived home at the time.  I have looked out the window when I have heard a car pulling up close to the house, regardless which one was not home at the time.  I have hidden money from both of them because I didn't feel it was safe if either had any access to it.  I have cried in a bathroom, with a pillow over my face so no one could hear my sobs... for both of them.  I have felt so alone, so lost, so angry, so hurt, so fearful... with both of them.  

See, I don't believe its the differences that allow us to bond in Al-Anon, it is recognizing the things we have in common that creates that bond of understanding and compassion for one another.  Both the husband or the wife, and the parent of an adult child have experienced feeling like their spirit was depleted, empty with no true light of hope turned on inside, that they had not another breath to take, no less to give, and yet found deep within them one more breath.. over and over again.  In the name of Love.

Maybe, just maybe, instead of wanting them to relate to you as a spouse and the experiences aligned with that role or position in someone's life, you should try relating to them as someone who also loves a alcoholic or addict that they don't want to lose or see this disease take away from them in death.  Share your feelings, not so much about the events specifics.  And you will find that those parents will surely relate to what you are feeling, and you will be better able to relate to what they are feeling as well.  We all have different faces, different places, different events and experiences to speak of, but what we all share in common is the feelings of powerlessness, the fear, the loneliness, the anger, and hurt,.... the feelings.  

Also, it might do you well to join some of our online meetings here, because this group is really well centered in Al-Anon.  We don't judge or measure any one based on what variety of alcoholic got them into our room.  We have all felt the same damn way, and did all the stuff of screaming, silent treatments, threatening, withholding affection/intimacy, crying, laughing, cold shouldering, talking, whispering, throwing money at the problem, withholding money from the problem,, etc., etc...

I feel you Ladybug, I hear you, I have been there.... I have felt the very same way you are describing here.  Like I didn't fit in, or this program just wasn't for me....

I am glad I did not let my brain,that doesn't always tell me the truth, make the decision as to whether I belong here or not.  Because I have gotten so much from this program and can only hope to give a small piece of it back to someone by sharing my experience, strength and hope.  Possibly to a new person, who is saying the things I once said, felt the way I once felt and acted the way I once acted.  And do for them what was done for me by a caring soul... relieved them from the bondage of self, so they could experience true peace and freedom on this journey called life.

John

 



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(Al-Anon's Twelve Steps & Twelve Traditions,Step 3. pg 21)

big-bigger-faith-fear-god-Favim.com-288081.jpg

 

 



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John, I like they way you pointed out how it can be possible to relate to parents of alcoholics in Al Anon meetings. I can now see how we all tend to have similar feelings and experiences, whether the addict is a spouse or a child.

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Actually i attended a parent alanon meeting and i did not relate
At all. It was so totally different than my normal meeting In
every way. I never went back to it.

My home group is a mixed bag, mostly adult child,Spouses or
partners and some they have children that are A's.

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I relate to it "not working".  It took me two trips to get into the program and the difference twix trip one and trip two was me making it worse for myself.  My alcoholic/addict wasn't drinking or using...she was in AA.  I was left to myself which I came to understand was the worse company I could have kept.   By diagnosis and my nature I am ODD or Oppositional Defiant Disordered...so my first reaction to most stuff (back then) was a "No" with my hand held up in front of me in a "stop" position.   I came to understand more and then what I want to mention in response here is what John mentioned which was also mentioned to me by the early fellowship.  They understood; I didn't.   "Listen to the similarities and not the differences" is what I was suggested to do and then when I started to practice that I would find my head nodding in agreement to the ESH I was listening to in the rooms.   

Yes there were things wrong with me when I arrived in Al-Anon and I came to understand that and own it.  I wasn't well put together partly because I was born and raised within the disease without knowing there was a disease at all.  I couldn't say alcoholic, alcoholism or other and would not have been able to spell either if asked.  I didn't know and I didn't know that I didn't know...I came to understand as the program would suggest and mentor and first I had to learn how to listen to the similarities and not insist that I was different.  I might have needed to be different and I wasn't.

Only one of the very important things (behaviors and thinking processes) I've learned in recovery is to stay a newbie.  When I get to thinking and assuming that I am so much more better off today that I cannot be had by the dis-ease...I get had by the dis-ease which is revealed in my non-sane reactions when it is not necessary or suggested that I react that way.  I give up "the" program for "my old" program...that didn't work then and still doesn't now.

Listen without defense...with an open mind...for the similarities, learn and then practice practice practice.    (((((hugs))))) smile



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Hi John,

 

Thanks for your reply.   It is well thought out and easy to read. I appreciate that.

 

I also truly appreciate your effort in trying to get me to see similarities.    Im a hard nut to crack.   Let me see if I can address specifics to help you understand.

 

I have never cringed when the phone rang. I never worried he was coming home drunk as he always drank at home.   I have never hidden money so he could not buy booze. I have never hidden my tears, my anger or my frustration from him.    What you say to me about how you feel are NOT things I can relate to for me personally.  I can have empathy and sympathy but have I walked in THOSE shoes and situationsno I have not.

 

In my Al-anon meetings its not about loving the motivator its all about taking care of yourself.  These people strike me as either NOT caring if their motivator lives or dies or is in their life or being so angry with them.    At least thats my take on it.  But I keep going and keep looking for meetings or people that resonate. I  may have found one last night.  Sadly its mostly men that resonate with me and I cant have a man as  a sponsor.  And I get that and I respect it.  On many levels. I would not want my husband to have a woman as a sponsor and Im sure he does not want me to have a man.

 

 

I will attend the online meetings as I can but at 9 am I am at work and at 9 pm we are either  just getting home from a meeting  (and eating dinner)  or Im turning into a pumpkin at 9:30.  Besides I find the after meetings (or in my case f2f the before  meetings) are way more helpful.

 

Again I am not trying to be argumentative and I appreciate everyones input more than they know    I can only promise folks that I will break every pre-conceived notion of a spouse in recovery.   NOTHING that folks say matches our situation.   But I keep coming back.  I figure eventually someone someday will join with the same mess I had and I can help them.   I really feel like Im doing the meetings at this point to support him and set an example.  I guess to many years of one on one therapy and that whole degree in Psych is a hindrance to following a plan that does not resonate with me.

 

 

   I get why it works.  We are swapping one addiction for another.    I will stay.  If in 2 years I am still looking for a sponsor and it still does not resonate I may stop going as my complaining it does not work will not help anyone.  

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings with me.    I guess its funny I walked into Al-anon KNOWING

 

I did not cause it   (he came to me as an alcoholic already)

I cannot cure it   (all I can do is set my boundaries that say  you cant be with me if  you are drinking  and he can decide what he wants to do about that boundary  (he wants to be sober and be with me  losing me was  and is his rock bottom sadlythats a lot of pressure)

 

I cannot control it  (never thought I could never tried)

 

 

That alone gives me a huge head start

 

I was already having lots of conversations with my HP

 I had years ago made a list of my good points and my bad (and  keep it updated in my brain)

 

Last night I was thinking about who I had harmed.  I have a list.  But for the life of me I cannot give you ANY specifics of the harm I have caused.    There is NO way I will be able to my ADHD makes my memory very spotty.    All I can do for my amends is apologize for any and all harm I have caused and let anyone who I apologize to remind me of the harm so I can make a list.  Sadly they wont.  my dad, my kids and my spouse will all say yeah we know its you whatever we love you   so theres no work to be done there.  

 

 

I WANT this to work.  This is the way its supposed to  be.  He goes to AA and I go to Al-anon.

 

Because trust me if he was drinking he would not be with me and this would all be moot.

John wrote:

Hi Ladybug, and welcome to the Miracles In Progress Al-Anon Family Group forum.  

I spent some time reading your post, and replies to post of others, as well as all the replies others have written here to you.

I am a person who has been on both sides of the fence, in a long term alcoholic relationship, and also with a son, who is both alcoholic and addict.

This being the case, I am wondering if you are over looking the similarities between the feelings generated in you and those are around you who are parents?

I mean, I have cringed when the telephone rang at night... regardless of which one has not arrived home at the time.  I have looked out the window when I have heard a car pulling up close to the house, regardless which one was not home at the time.  I have hidden money from both of them because I didn't feel it was safe if either had any access to it.  I have cried in a bathroom, with a pillow over my face so no one could hear my sobs... for both of them.  I have felt so alone, so lost, so angry, so hurt, so fearful... with both of them.  

See, I don't believe its the differences that allow us to bond in Al-Anon, it is recognizing the things we have in common that creates that bond of understanding and compassion for one another.  Both the husband or the wife, and the parent of an adult child have experienced feeling like their spirit was depleted, empty with no true light of hope turned on inside, that they had not another breath to take, no less to give, and yet found deep within them one more breath.. over and over again.  In the name of Love.

Maybe, just maybe, instead of wanting them to relate to you as a spouse and the experiences aligned with that role or position in someone's life, you should try relating to them as someone who also loves a alcoholic or addict that they don't want to lose or see this disease take away from them in death.  Share your feelings, not so much about the events specifics.  And you will find that those parents will surely relate to what you are feeling, and you will be better able to relate to what they are feeling as well.  We all have different faces, different places, different events and experiences to speak of, but what we all share in common is the feelings of powerlessness, the fear, the loneliness, the anger, and hurt,.... the feelings.  

Also, it might do you well to join some of our online meetings here, because this group is really well centered in Al-Anon.  We don't judge or measure any one based on what variety of alcoholic got them into our room.  We have all felt the same damn way, and did all the stuff of screaming, silent treatments, threatening, withholding affection/intimacy, crying, laughing, cold shouldering, talking, whispering, throwing money at the problem, withholding money from the problem,, etc., etc...

I feel you Ladybug, I hear you, I have been there.... I have felt the very same way you are describing here.  Like I didn't fit in, or this program just wasn't for me....

I am glad I did not let my brain,that doesn't always tell me the truth, make the decision as to whether I belong here or not.  Because I have gotten so much from this program and can only hope to give a small piece of it back to someone by sharing my experience, strength and hope.  Possibly to a new person, who is saying the things I once said, felt the way I once felt and acted the way I once acted.  And do for them what was done for me by a caring soul... relieved them from the bondage of self, so they could experience true peace and freedom on this journey called life.

John

 


 



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Seeing people healing, applying the steps to their life, living in the solution, applying 12 step principles....Those are things that have value for me and can be seen in any 12 step meeting. I can find something to relate to in almost all meetings....regardless of the fellowship. Largely, we come to connect with other human beings and to get out of ourselves. I can understand that, early on, had I not worked all the steps yet and if I was still totally in the thick of it, I'd want to be around people more similar to me and my circumstances. For example, I wasn't ready for alanon or any other fellowship till I had about 2 years in AA.

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thank you Mirandac for the validation.
Mirandac wrote:

Actually i attended a parent alanon meeting and i did not relate
At all. It was so totally different than my normal meeting In
every way. I never went back to it.

My home group is a mixed bag, mostly adult child,Spouses or
partners and some they have children that are A's.


 



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thank you Jerry for your reply.  I guess I  will always be a Newbie and I am sure I will never get it. 
My son is PDD-NOS and I get ODD totally.    (I can talk alphabet soup withOUT the DSM in front of me)
I KEEP looking for similarities.
I was not raised by folks with the disease.   I was raised sadly by parents that's only fault was that they loved me too much.   There was alcohol in our home but only for friday night religious purposes or once in a great while (two or three times a year) hard liquor.  NO beer. NO wine.   
And yet it was never forbidden and it was never hidden.  Alcohol was not an issue.   
I'm not saying we were NOT dysfunctional we were.  We still are.   We always will be.  MOST families are dysfunctional.    some more than others.   As we have said in my family  a. the shoemakers children are going barefoot and  b. we put the fun in dysfunction.   Almost everyone in my maternal family is either an MSW or a social worker of some sort.    But we are all messed up in our own ways.  
Last night the topic (at a different new group where I knew 3 of the 7 people already from other groups I've attended already) was forgiveness.  I sat and listened to the anger. I listened to them talk about how hard it is to forgive.  I don't get it.  I don't have that issue at all.  I forgive easily perhaps too easily and I don't hold grudges and I forget a lot of things.    I COULD NOT RELATE.  and when it came time for me to share (they went around the room cause it was a small group)  I passed.  I had NOTHING that I could say or contribute or that I needed to work out.
but I went.  and I'll go tonight and tomorrow night and I'll try a new group that was suggested on Friday.    I will keep going and I will keep listening and I will keep reading.
Maybe one day it will sink in.  
thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.
I appreciate the ability to process this stuff on the board.
Jerry F wrote:

 

 

 

I relate to it "not working".  It took me two trips to get into the program and the difference twix trip one and trip two was me making it worse for myself.  My alcoholic/addict wasn't drinking or using...she was in AA.  I was left to myself which I came to understand was the worse company I could have kept.   By diagnosis and my nature I am ODD or Oppositional Defiant Disordered...so my first reaction to most stuff (back then) was a "No" with my hand held up in front of me in a "stop" position.   I came to understand more and then what I want to mention in response here is what John mentioned which was also mentioned to me by the early fellowship.  They understood; I didn't.   "Listen to the similarities and not the differences" is what I was suggested to do and then when I started to practice that I would find my head nodding in agreement to the ESH I was listening to in the rooms.   

Yes there were things wrong with me when I arrived in Al-Anon and I came to understand that and own it.  I wasn't well put together partly because I was born and raised within the disease without knowing there was a disease at all.  I couldn't say alcoholic, alcoholism or other and would not have been able to spell either if asked.  I didn't know and I didn't know that I didn't know...I came to understand as the program would suggest and mentor and first I had to learn how to listen to the similarities and not insist that I was different.  I might have needed to be different and I wasn't.

Only one of the very important things (behaviors and thinking processes) I've learned in recovery is to stay a newbie.  When I get to thinking and assuming that I am so much more better off today that I cannot be had by the dis-ease...I get had by the dis-ease which is revealed in my non-sane reactions when it is not necessary or suggested that I react that way.  I give up "the" program for "my old" program...that didn't work then and still doesn't now.

Listen without defense...with an open mind...for the similarities, learn and then practice practice practice.    (((((hugs))))) smile


 



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 239
Date:

Pinkchip,
Thanks. I love when I see your parrot avatar as I know your input is from both sides of the fence. 
I guess that part of the issue for me is that I have never NOT been connected to others. I have never hidden my feelings or the fact that my husband is an abusive AH.    
I stay with him and have to deal with those who look at me like I have two heads for choosing to give him yet another chance.  But then folks don't know me and don't know him.
The one person that gets both of us is an ACOA and did Al-ateen as a kid.    She is awesome in that she gets what I am saying and she understands why I am with my spouse.    But she does not work a program and can't be my sponsor.  But she's a great sounding board for when I'm working crap through in my brain.
pinkchip wrote:

Seeing people healing, applying the steps to their life, living in the solution, applying 12 step principles....Those are things that have value for me and can be seen in any 12 step meeting. I can find something to relate to in almost all meetings....regardless of the fellowship. Largely, we come to connect with other human beings and to get out of ourselves. I can understand that, early on, had I not worked all the steps yet and if I was still totally in the thick of it, I'd want to be around people more similar to me and my circumstances. For example, I wasn't ready for alanon or any other fellowship till I had about 2 years in AA.


 



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 1662
Date:

Ladybug one thing that stands out for with you.

When you Give your will over to your HP your life will be so much
Easier. Self will is a big stumbling block in our recovery.
It took me a couple of years to get there because i
Still had hopes i could help or change my ah and our
Marriage.

It took me working on my spiritual side with the help of
Some Baptist people to feel God in me and to let my soul
Open up. To learn to trust God again and be receptive
To him being in control not me.

It is a powerful feeling not having to force solutions.
Put one foot in front of the other, do the next best
Thing. God is in charge not me.

I wanted what i wanted And it made me sick inside
and twisted up. Accepting Crumbs from a man that
no longer acted or behaved As a husband should.

My dry ah became very emotionally and verbally
Abusive toward the end of our marriage. It was a
Horror show. I could not understand or fathom any
Of it. He was acting like a crack addict during his
AA recovery. The addict in my ah is alive and kicking
Even after being dry for 30 years.

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 239
Date:

Thank you Mirandac.
I guess I'll know it when it happens.   but to me  giving your will to your HP sounds much like giving up and letting go and not being proactive just being reactive.   Maybe I'll never get it.
Mirandac wrote:

Ladybug one thing that stands out for with you.

When you Give your will over to your HP your life will be so much
Easier. Self will is a big stumbling block in our recovery.
It took me a couple of years to get there because i
Still had hopes i could help or change my ah and our
Marriage.

It took me working on my spiritual side with the help of
Some Baptist people to feel God in me and to let my soul
Open up. To learn to trust God again and be receptive
To him being in control not me.

It is a powerful feeling not having to force solutions.
Put one foot in front of the other, do the next best
Thing. God is in charge not me.

I wanted what i wanted And it made me sick inside
and twisted up. Accepting Crumbs from a man that
no longer acted or behaved As a husband should.

My dry ah became very emotionally and verbally
Abusive toward the end of our marriage. It was a
Horror show. I could not understand or fathom any
Of it. He was acting like a crack addict during his
AA recovery. The addict in my ah is alive and kicking
Even after being dry for 30 years.


 



__________________

-- ladybug

We come to love not by finding a perfect person,
but by learning to see an imperfect person perfectly.

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