Al-Anon Family Group

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Responses to this complaint?


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 154
Date:
Responses to this complaint?


My AH is obsessed with the fact we haven't been intimate for a long time. This week, he has started saying "it's been 100 days" and he is saying it over and over...  linking it to other things... like maybe he would do more errands if he had sex more often. Or whatever.

About 100 days ago, he crossed a boundary, where I have said I would go if he did it again, and I didn't. I think I've shared this before. His priest asked me to try to hang in there a while longer, and I did... but I do know that I should have gone, even temporarily, so I could recover (nervous system, sleep, peace, etc.)  Anyhow, I have told my AH clearly that I don't want to do that (be intimate). That I can't trust. I tried once, and an overwhelming fear came over me, and I could not let go and feel safe.  Anyhow, I really do not want to use sex to punish, or be perceived that way, but I also genuinely do NOT want to go there.  I don't even want to be around him.  Any ESH on a kind way to say what I mean, mean what I say, and not say it mean?  He is repeating it over and over, and it's starting to even bleed into times when kids are around.

 

 



-- Edited by oceanpine on Saturday 24th of January 2015 02:18:53 PM

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 17196
Date:

Oceanpine you explained it well in your post" so I could recover (nervous system, sleep, peace, etc"

You only need to state that you need time to reclaim yourself and your emotional health. Sex, for woman requires more emotional connections than you can have at this time. You are working on yourself and having sex is not where you are at this time. You cannot project into the future only for this moment in time.

__________________
Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 154
Date:

Thanks. He feels he has given me time to recover - we have been sleeping in different rooms, and he is very grumpy about that.

However.  I just nursed our son through 2 weeks of pneumonia.  Right now is the first time I have been alone for 16 days. It was difficult, and I am very tired. He expresses thanks and appreciation for me taking care of our son, but he cannot extend that to my continuing not to have sex.  Startign to mutter about wifely duties.  I am learning through all this Al-Anon work and counseling how deeply affected I am by people's words. Wish I could figure out more graceful ways to respond but I get soooo triggered.



__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 17196
Date:

Just restate what you shared above. You are a woman and tired from being a mom to a sick child and need to regroup. Wife dutes require that you take care of yourself first so the family will thrive.



__________________
Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 7576
Date:

It's been awhile for me, op, so I don't have any recent e/s/h to share on it. I can share what I have done in relationship to folks who keep hammering away at me to do something I don't want to do no matter how many times I say it and in what way I say it. If my "no" wasn't respected and the question kept coming at me, I would feel badgered and harassed after awhile. I would say: I am feeling disrespected, badgered and pressured to do something I have already said "no" to with you. The more you push, the more I want to and will say no. Please respect my no or I will have to separate myself from you physically in some way for my own peace of mind.

For what its worth, my priests also counseled me to go back and figure out what I was doing that led to my x abusing me.  I listened to them because I didn't realize they'd never been married, they weren't women and they'd agreed to remain celibate.   Only I knew what was right for me.  They didn't.  I had to make decisions for myself and when I listened to myself, I knew exactly what I needed to do for me and for my kids.



-- Edited by grateful2be on Saturday 24th of January 2015 02:59:19 PM



-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 25th of January 2015 11:18:42 AM

__________________

"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5663
Date:

Boundaries. It's not going to feel easy coming out of your mouth and if you state a boundary, you have to follow through on it. So this would mean, "Do not discuss that topic right now. I have made my feelings known and will leave if this continues." Only say things like that if you are ready to do that though. You do not have to stick around and be emotionally abused. I used to get triggered by my A saying certain things....all the way until I got "triggered" right out the door. So yeah...me now would say "This is unacceptable behavior and I'm not putting up with it. I have told you the reason why I am not comfortable with sex right now. You are really placing this relationship in jeopardy even further by continually bringing it up." He may then talk about "wifely duties" and try and pick an argument. If so, then follow through would be leaving. If something is triggering me and that something or someone isn't going to stop, my only option as far as self-care goes is getting away from the trigger.

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5075
Date:

Im sorry your going throuh this oceanpine. Im not really religious so i could be ignorant but why would you do as a priest asked you? 

It really sounds like you need alanon, get the support from people who really know what your going through, can you get to meetings? The sooner the better. Dont let him manipulate you into sex, you have the right to say no to anyone on this planet, call the police if you need to, thats what they are there for. Alcoholics are master manipulators and can be bullies, you always have choices, always.



__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3281
Date:

grateful2be wrote:

 If my "no" wasn't respected and the question kept coming at me, I would feel badgered and harassed after awhile. I would say: I am feeling disrespected, badgered and pressured to do something I have already said "no" to with you. The more you push, the more I want to and will say no. Please respect my no or I will have to separate myself from you physically in some way for my own peace of mind.


 absolutely.....don't know what he did to "turn you off" but it must have been important to you and your body is YOURS,  not his property....women , as Betty said, are more emotionally geared when it comes to sex...males are different...females need that sense of safety, nurturing sorta and respect and emotional connection...

if you don't want to do it, then you don't want to do it...end of case....I totally agree with what grateful says here...I wold say the EXACT same thing if it were me....

I remember one time my first AH came into my bedroom wanting to be intimate, just after he was abusive (i set up my own bedroom b/c of his drunken snoring kept me awake)  anyway, he comes in and wants to be intimate AFTER he has been abusing me verbally, berating me, etc., and when he touched my arm, my skin crawled....UGHHHH I did NOT want him touching me........I knew the marriage was "end stage"  b/c I knew he would never get into AA , never quit abusing me....I just knew

some situations are temporary, but whatever....you have a RIGHT to need recover/regroup time for yourself....100 days is only a bit over 3 months...yea, a bit long, but hey!!!  something must have caused this....and now he has to pay the piper for what he did......

you can't force what you don't feel and you have the right to NOT be forced, badgered.....if he doesn't want to accept it??? too bad!!! you have a right to recover from whatever it was that he did or said

sending you SUPPORT



__________________

Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 154
Date:

el-cee wrote:

Im sorry your going throuh this oceanpine. Im not really religious so i could be ignorant but why would you do as a priest asked you? 

It really sounds like you need alanon, get the support from people who really know what your going through, can you get to meetings? The sooner the better. Dont let him manipulate you into sex, you have the right to say no to anyone on this planet, call the police if you need to, thats what they are there for. Alcoholics are master manipulators and can be bullies, you always have choices, always.


hi El-cee,

It sounds a bit crazy, esp. as he was not my priest (I do not share my husband's religious affiliation), BUT we were getting counseling from him (he used to be an addictions counselor) AND when he asked that, my husband was sitting in the room, with his head hanging as he awaited my answer. Even though the priest recognized the boundary I had set, and said I was right in this situation, and could decide whatever I needed to but could I consider hanging on?  The words he used were "hang on to continue nurturing my family" and I guess using the words "nurture" and "family" really hit me, esp. with my husband sitting there in shame and sorrow. AND it was my birthday, and I was supposed to leave town on a retreat, and I just sort of crumbled instead of pushing back and saying, "I said I would leave and now I am going to." I was so tired from staying up all night thinking about it, I just could not stand any more at that moment.

Then it seemed a bit silly to leave later, so I've been sticking it out. We started counseling, and I recognize how very much I need to work on in myself, so I am still here. But, not doing very well with the constant triggers.  



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 326
Date:

prayers for your healing and serenity :)

__________________

I needed these behaviors in my past they helped me survive I'm finding new and better ways to not just survive but thrive 



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5075
Date:

I totally understand, those words are like magic for any wife an mother. Clever priest. Maybe your just not quite ready yet and thats ok. Whe your ready it wont matter what anyone says.

I understand the exhaustion and the high anxiety and the thought of relief from that, we would do just about anything for peace, i know i have. The problem is that once we dont dont follow through with boundaries then its like the green light for the alcoholic, hes watching what you do and not what you say. He probably knows the buttons to push, like the priest did. Playing on the guilt and mothering instincts is pretty common from my experience.

Alanon provided my mind with armour. So it meant when the name calling or incessant button pushing began then i saw right through it as a tactic to control me and allow the disease to continue. Guilt was my biggest enemy, i would do anything for anyone at anytime if they tapped into my guilt and said the right thing the right way.

Alanon taught me how to let go of guilt and today i have no guilt, honestly, not as a mother, a wife, a friend, anything really. It can come up now and again but i know what to do with it now. This means i am not controllable or an easy target, im not easily manipulated and i try hard not to manipulate too. Can you get to fqce to face meetings?

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3496
Date:

I've been with one man in the past 17 years and there is no way I would go back to him even if he came up on a silver platter .. it is what it is .. my trust was violated and it's something where he would need to be working his program and allow me the grace, as well as dignity to work mine. I like what HotRod said .. you have stated plainly and clearly what is and what is not ok for you today. Just for today this doesn't work for you and that's ok.

Alanon has given me the permission to say NO, mean NO and not have to explain WHY I am saying NO. NO means NO, end of the story.

What EC said about not being ready rang true for me as well .. no one knows what the future holds however in order to have any kind of future both parties need to be whole and healthy. I only know this for fact .. I can't fix my own broken mind with my broken mind .. I need support with complete acceptance of where I am at .. getting that from an active A is like going to the hardware store for bread .. so there fore I have to find ways to help myself which is very healthy as well.

Expecting a sick person to respond in a healthy way is my own distorted thinking (PS - this is my current mantra .. LOL) .. they can stomp, throw the 2 year old tantrum .. whatever .. I still have choices .. one of those being I can remove myself from the situation on a temporary basis.

Hugs S :)

__________________

Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism.  If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown

"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5663
Date:

"The thing about clergy is they always are clergy first then counselor second, even if they "used to" be whatever. So.religions are vehemently anti-divorce. Hence, the suggestions, advice, feedback from any clergy is going to be from that perspective first and foremost. Not to launch too far off on a tangent, but our counselor ethics include all sorts of warnings against dual relationships (meaning you cannot provide therapy to your family, can't be someone's best friend and their therapist, not being therapist to your mechanic, hairdresser...whatever). So anyhow, that would extend, in my belief, to not being a priest and therapist at the same time. However, I do know that pastoral counseling is its own field and it falls under their job description...they are not licensed or bound by the same ethical code as other counselors though. Strange as you would think their ethical code would be more strict. So yeah...you get "pastoral" first and counseling second.

I caution....this is not my role here on MIP. I am just another bozo on the bus (endearing term born out of AA to mean I'm just another person with problems).

However, I am an addictions counselor and I would NEVER tell someone to consider "staying and nurturing their family." First off, that takes away their choice and if the husband was dangerous or something and some volatile situation blew up, it would be on my conscience and I could get my arse sued off. Second, I don't think this is the case here, but for all I know, a wife could be getting physically abuse and is scared and ashamed to admit it. So if I encouraged her to stay, I'd be encouraging that to continue....also ethically and legally messed up. Third, what I know about addiction and recovery from both AA and alanon - each situation is unique and variable change depending several things (if someone is in recovery, has mental illness...all kinds of things). Sometimes, a separation is necessary for detachment....sometimes it is not. Detachment is still necessary regardless. It even talks about detachment in the "to the wives" section of the big book which was written 70 some years ago. It suggests being "cordial" and basically giving space to the alcoholic in recovery. So yeah, it does not suggest being nurturing to your alcoholic husband...Nothing in AA or alanon suggests that as, in order to recover, nurturing is about the last thing they need (it will be turned into enabling or it will stop them from taking responsibility). Situations where I could see a separation being necessary would be ones where triggers are present for the spouse or where the relationship is super toxic. AND separation doesn't mean divorce either necessarily. Note: I'm not advising or suggesting you do anything but what you are ready and wanting to do. It is YOUR choice.

So...a couple more words then I'm off my soap box. I believe you got advice, suggestion, feedback from a clergy...period. It's hard for me to even believe the person used to be an addictions counselor. If any of you guys go out looking for outside help...consider the source it's coming from. If it's a counselor that is already seeing your A, the counselor will likely be partial to your A, as that is their main client and they have been hearing only 1 side of things. If it's someone pastoral, then you will get religious ideology thrown in (which may or may not be okay)....You can ask someone's background and therapy methods before seeing them too.

Sorry for the temporary thread hijack Oceanpine. Supporting you in your journey....and also encouraging lots of Alanon first and foremost.

**Just wanted to add, I am not anti-religion.  I used to be prior to the program and it actually has made me more tolerant.  Sometimes a clergy person might be the perfect person to go to and it depends on the person's belief systems and what they feel comfortable with and what type of help the person is seeking.  My main point here is just to be aware of the where we are seeking suggestions, help, counsel and be careful.  I hear some tone of regret in Oceanpine's posts about how this turned out for her so...yeah.  Hope it helps someone.



-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 25th of January 2015 09:08:07 AM



-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 25th of January 2015 12:20:25 PM



-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 25th of January 2015 12:26:44 PM

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 687
Date:

 most important thing I learned in Al anon is that no one can relate to a person who has loved and alcoholic except a another person who has loved an alcoholic.

addictions counselors can get their "certificate" online.. pleeeze... rely on your sponsor and in person meetings on this tricky subject!

I don't even feel qualified to offer suggestions about what you do with your body and I've lived it!

Confused me like crazy when people would suggest I stay or say oh but he's such a "good guy" or you'll never find another one like him (thank higher power that's true I hope). earth people (those not affected by someone elses drinking) just do not know a thing about how it feels!



__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3496
Date:

I'm going to back Pink's post up by saying that my Pastor works the steps and is a recovering A. He actually incorporates the 12 steps into scripture as well as other recovery work. People are getting recovery and don't know it .. lol I love that.

He has a tremendous knowledge of addiction and understands when it's time to draw the line in specific situations that can not be undone. I hope I am not overstepping by stating that the bible says God hates divorce .. that is true .. however God hates abuse as well and there are times it is ok to say this is to much for me I need a definitive split.

For me I would not listen to a pastor or priest who told me to stick it out with my XAH .. it was unhealthy and there was no way it was getting better.

I had some very frank conversations with my pastor and told him the last time I helped this one is for the God of my understanding .. the God of my understanding also realizes that this is the last time.

Alanon gave me the tools to understand and take action on what was and is best for myself and the kiddos.

Hugs S :)

__________________

Faith minus vulnerability and mystery equals extremism.  If you've got all the answers, then don't call what you do "faith". - Brene Brown

"Whatever truth you own doesn't own you" - Gary John Bishop



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 13696
Date:

 

 

((((Oceanpine)))))  You opened this share with stating about AH's obsession.  I learned to detach from my alcoholic/addicts obsessions.  Yes she had them and so did everyone else around.  I have obsession also and those are the ones that truly affect me...how I feel, what I think, how I behave etc.  I had to learn a thought force "It is not all about her or them".   If I am responsible than I get to make the best choices I will using the best methods I have with me.   On the subject of sex with my alcoholic/addict I came to learn that it is mostly instinctually driven and often self-ish or self driven.  I learned that from my own self inventories that revealed "for me" that often I was attempting to fulfill a "personal need" and it didn't require if I loved my wife or partner at the time or not.  I was self-respecting and not other-respecting.  I had many 9th step amends to do on this realization.   If you discover the feeling that regarding the subject of sex you are being brought to the consideration of being a "thing" or an "object" the feeling is toxic and sickening because on a natural order you are much much more than that especially as a human being and child of God.  It doesn't seem that your husband can visualize or believe that beyond his own personal needs.   I know what sex with the lack of intimacy feels like.  I don't participate either. 

To thine own self be true Ocean.  Be your own heroine.  (((((hugs))))) smile



-- Edited by Jerry F on Sunday 25th of January 2015 04:46:37 PM

__________________


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 5663
Date:

Double that Jerry...excellent post.

__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 110
Date:

i feel your pain i been there and had no choice but to remove my ex from my life for me to further my recovery , he thought he was better he was healthy when he wasnt it was the illness trying to trick him to think he was better. its amazing how alcholism can kill your thinking how it controls every part of your life. i also set boudariers at the time and it seamed it made it worst it only made things worst it was also tossed in my face that i was using it as a punishment when i wasnt ,i needed my time to heal for me .i was told from my exA that he had to take care of himself first because his fellowship was a selfish program and i get that . to stay sober is hard and one does need to tend to there self but when i used that same exact words,im sorry im not ready for sex i need to focus on me my health my healing and said my fellowship is also a selfish program he did not like that. I dont have to deal with that anymore we are no longer married . but try your best to keep your ground dont give in if you do he will exspect it all the time, dont feel guilty or pressured to do something your not ready for ,you stood bye him threw his recovery he needs to stand by yours and understand we recover slowly . i really pray for you i wish you the courage and strenghth you need to hold to your rules. my spell check is not working im sorry for my spelling. sex honestly should not be a priority right now .

__________________
Wisdom67


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 1152
Date:

I'll start by saying Yes, I am still married and have been married to the same man since 1971. From 1996 to 2000 I said "no" every time he wanted sex. He was still drinking. He was stinky. He was not "good" at it. He didn't care about me. He needed porn. He would bounce, bounce, bounce and then fall asleep on me.. He wanted sex only in the morning so he could have the rest of the day to drink and pass out at night. I had kids to take care of. Mornings were all busy times for me. I knew he was only thinking of himself and not of me.

Did I feel guilty? Sure, at first. Especially when he asked again and said, "but it's my birthday". So I would tell him he had to wait until the kids were in bed and of course he couldn't. Eventually he stopped asking. But I know he didn't stop having sex. One of his coworkers came to me after a couple of years and said, "the wife is always the last to know" and I assured her that I suspected but didn't really care anymore and I didn't want to talk about it to her.

This was all happening before I found AlAnon. He got a DUI in 2000 and stopped drinking and went to AA. And I found AlAnon. After a few month in AlAnon I decided to have sex again with him. Are things all rosy. Heck no. And I have learned to say no whenever it is best for me. I learned to communicate for myself and what I want. I learned not to feel guilty. I learned to think about him as much as he thinks about me........

I had the divorce all planned for 2001 when my last daughter graduated from high school. My HP laughed and got my AH into AA in 2000. Then I thought I should give him a chance.....

__________________
maryjane
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.