'Constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves'....What does it mean? - Al-Anon Family Group

ymvv2000 · Newbie

'Constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves'....What does it mean?

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I am sure Jer or someone will know.

When i read it I thought about how very very hard it is for the active addict to be honest with themselves, that is part why they use again and again, that guilt for all they have done they cannot face it so use it away with a drug.

I have seen A's start program and they are sometimes so unbelievably hard on themselves, the guilt can overwhelm them.

I know if I make a mistake, just a tiny one the guilt is HORRIBLE! I put a dog down thinking I was doing the right thing, then it hit me,"you think you are so smart, what if those symptoms could have been reversed??" I was soooo sick and sad and guilty I went to my own doc who is a friend too. told him the symptoms etc, I felt so awful. He immediatly reassured me i did the right thing! that horrible sick feeling went away like that.

For me to imagine the horrible guilt A's feel, just floors me. no wonder they try to avoid it.

My A was so afraid to fail, or do something wrong. I don't relate to this. I would say ok blame me I have big shoulders. I don't care if I am wrong or goof. I just keep going. (of course when it does not involve life or death or hurting someone)

I don't know, insecurity is such a sad state. I would think if an A killed a family in a car accident cuz they were drunk, if they were able to be honest with themselves, would they go out the next night and get booze and drive again?

ugh good question!

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi ymvv, welcome to MIP,

It is in the front of the big book.

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Here is my experience having lived through drunkenness and sobriety with my wife. Once she decided she wanted to get sober, she had to be totally honest with herself and others. her relationship with her sponsor and other people in her AA group is brutally honest, and open enough that they canj feel they can be honest with each other.

On my side, I could be described in that manner as well. It's really a multi-syllable way of saying that you can recover if you come out of denial. I denied everything, enabled my wife, and am very good at sugarcoating things so that they don't have to be dealt with - I don't like to handle "life on life's terms". I have had to learn how to do that. Some through working the steps, some through meetings, much through coming here, and off and on through talking with my wife.

The only way you will find out what he really means is by asking him. If you had a hard time through Step 4, maybe that's given him the impression that you aren't honest with yourself. Maybe lots of other things. But the only way to know is to ask him. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean. And apologize for overhearing him, assuming you didn't have a glass to the wall listening in lol. Anything else is projecting, and isn't fair to you or him.

Keep coming back!

Kenny

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

BTW, the Big Book is a recommended read. Just because it isn't CAL, I think it is a good thing to get the A's perspective on how they are trying to recover.

Kenny

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

Welcome to MIP. Kenny has responded so well on the honesty and BB thing, I am going to let that alone and speak to your husband taking your inventory thing. No human being can determine whether or not another person can be honest. That is judgment and it is playing God. That is also covered in AA's 4th Step as well as our own. Taking each other's moral inventory is a big problem and if somebody takes mine - I have learned to discount it. It's one thing for someone to say to me "When you say blah, blah, blah but then do the opposite, its hard for me to believe you" versus "You're a liar. You'll always be a liar. You're dishonest. You'll always be dishonest. It must have started before you were born or maybe shortly after?" (Example only.) The first approach is based on a loved one's experience of me and shared honestly. The second approach is a whole lot of bologna and comes from the other party's inability to communicate in a way that will bring me closer rather than shove me away.

One of the things I have learned in this program is my need to keep my focus on my own thoughts, feelings and behaviors. If I catch myself saying I won't ever say or do blah, blah, blah again and then I go and do it again - just seeing that is enough for me to admit that I need to work on being more honest with myself to include not exaggerating my own ability to be operating in a true to self manner 24 hours a day.

It's difficult to hear the words of a loved one as they describe our character in a negative way to another. That kind of thing has been a reminder to me not to take other people's inventories because it hurts and its unfair. If its any help, if he continues to work his program he may work through that "taking other people's inventories" and it will become a habit of the past. For his sake and for yours, I hope so. We all need to trust that our family members and friends have our backs - not talking behind them.

-- Edited by grateful2be on Tuesday 16th of December 2014 04:12:22 PM

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

All I can say is it sounds like he is judging you and taking your inventory. It doesn't really matter what the words mean, what matters is he needs to work his own program...not yours!!

-- Edited by Newlife girl on Tuesday 16th of December 2014 05:33:43 PM

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Newlife girl wrote:
All I can say is it sounds like he is judging you and taking your inventory. It doesn't really matter what the words mean, what matters is he needs to work his own program...not yours!!

-- Edited by Newlife girl on Tuesday 16th of December 2014 05:33:43 PM

Totally agree with NLG here....hes working your inventory...so what if u r on step 1...some folks take longer w/a step then others....this is not a race...it is a journey....i have to work step 3 ALL the time b/c of my trust/faith issues......i was on this coda site, where i was working the other steps, yea, but step 3 was my "sticker" i got dumped on about it and i just said in a private message to this "graduate" that I guess they completed their program b/c they have time to work on mine....WOW!!! and then i set a boundary and kindly asked that they ignore my posts....and if they continued w/crosstalk behaviour on the board, I would call a group or moderator conscience on this issue.......that was the end of their "assessment" of me.....to me, that kind of behaviour shows dishonesty on their part in that they are better???? closer to the end??? there IS NO end to recovery.....we do it on our time table and as long as we are willing, open and honest (note slower on one step over another isn't one of these criteria)we will be FINE.....

do your recovery and tell him to keep the focus OFF you and ON him....

el-cee · ~*Service Worker*~

It sounds like a harsh statement but alcoholism is a disease that effects the whole family. I was incapable of being honest with myself just as much as my alcoholic ex. We tend to have the same symptoms, both aa and alanon are about recovering from these symptoms. I think it was unfortunate that you heard him say that, it might be true although thats none of his business, just as what he thinks of you is none of yours. You could use the slogans to work through this. How important is it? When it comes right down to it, is it that important? Enough to get upset over? you have choices on how to respond, negatively or positively. In my view this is the mark of progress. Take it easy on yourself and on him. Your learning a new way to live and think and it will take time and you will both go up and down.

Jerry F · ~*Service Worker*~

Aloha Y and welcome to the MIP board...Yay for your time in Al-Anon and of course keep coming back. Yes I am a double with my tap root in recovery first planted in the soil of Al-Anon. I honestly would have reacted to that comment had it been made by my alcoholic/addict wife if she had 12 months in the meetings and that is where we part because it didn't happen...My reaction would have been similar because my pride and ego were still plugged in and also because I was dependent still on my alcoholic/addict for self esteem glows which I came to accept and understand is like trying to look in the mirror at night with the light off...she would not accurately reflect who and what I was because she had no idea how to do it and alcoholics don't pump another person up when it might make them look less than. Just like when we drank we put others down so that we could seem better than.... Alcoholics are pride and ego driven and often dishonestly is practiced because honesty makes them just look normal or needy. Al-Anoner do the same thing because our disease is a equal opportunity disease. When I got into Al-Anon my alcoholic/addict was a bitch and the worse alcoholic/addict on the face of the earth plus blah blah blah and sometimes I did that so that I could be accepted in the group. When I found out that she was sick person suffering from a life threatening disease it all changed. She went from bad to sick and you don't kick sick people. The entire Al-Anon program changed my habit of putting her down including the closing of our meetings, "....let there be no gossip or criticism of one another (for me...and anyone else).

When I learned about how at one time "It was all about me" I learned how to laugh at myself and also to the similar behaviors others did to polish pride and ego. It twernt recovery. It was only acting as if just outside of the next drink. 12 months alcohol free doesn't mean much when you stack it up next to the number of years you spent drinking...(from my sponsor) "'When you reach recovery half life" they use to say which is "the same amount of time practicing the program that you spent practicing your disease". My half life will be reached at the age of 74.

Laugh when he does stuff like this if you care to see the humor in it. He is a judge outside of the law. Even in AA we know the danger which comes from inflating our egos and polishing our prides. Those two will get us drunk and dead. Its not about him having the right to do it...he is exercising the ability to do it which is an ability that needs to be ceased and changed. For you..."Don't take is personal either". Carry a little spritz of air freshener with you and when this happens spritz the air around you just as a tool to freshen the air when you smell the bs...and it is bs. Let him go, turn him over, don't react, don't even think about turning yourself over to small stuff.

You are actually the opposite of what he said and he was talking about himself. If he was constitutionally capable of being honest he would have never wanted to say what he said especially to another person. You can whisper to your self "Gottcha" (I use to) and then spritz the air. Gotta sponsor? use a sponsor and please keep coming back here also. In support (((((hugs))))) smile

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

I love the idea of air freshener Jerry. Thanks for the laugh.

SunshineGirl · Senior Member

Many thanks for this thread. Lots in here for me to think about.

LOL about the air freshener, Jerry!

pinkchip · ~*Service Worker*~

Jerry's thread reminded me of the saying "You spot it - You got it." In clinical terms, it think it's a defense mechanism called projection.

david62 · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi all,
Hadn't been on the board in a while, and the title of this post caught my eye.

What a great question and what awesome replies. And miracle of miracles I don't feel the need to put in my own two cents, cause the replies are all spot on for me.

Thanks for still being here, and still be wonderful!

David

hotrod · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi David Great to see you back and connecting once again.

Hoot Nanny · ~*Service Worker*~

That comes from How it works from the Big Book of AA. It is for those who have emotional problems that could cause them to have trouble being honest. They too can recover if they have the ability to be honest. I didn't quote the Big Book verbatim but I think I got close. If anyone can expound on this, please do.

Kathleen

The material presented here is not Al-Anon Conference Approved Literature. It is a method to exchange information, ideas, feelings, problems and solutions on a personal level.