Trust shattered - Al-Anon Family Group

Em D · Member

Trust shattered

Hullibee · Senior Member

Sorry Em D I too am having trust issues. I don't know what I can suggest but I thought I would acknowledge you pain. Keep coming back. Wiser people will help.

grateful2be · ~*Service Worker*~

It appears you didn't trust him when you wanted to see his personal AA on-line account? I'm not sure if there was marital infidelity prior to rehab that contributes to your desire to watch his on-line relationships or if you've feeling distrustful of him because of some insecurities of your own? I do know that As are gonna do what they're gonna do. The disease doesn't go away because they stop drinking. And infidelity is infidelity whether somebody is drinking or not. Had I known my x was having an affair while we were married, it would have given me the information I needed to divorce him easily. I never even considered that he was although he accused me of cheating constantly. Years after the divorce, I put some facts together that I was really too busy raising kids and putting food on the table to consider and realized that he had probably engaged in sex outside the marriage. As a woman, a husband's infidelity is a deal breaker to me because it strikes at my heart/my core. It also brings risks to my health and to my wellbeing considering the fact an active A isn't always going to choose a healthy woman to bed with when they're finding them in bars. If I felt the need to check up on my x's comings and goings and relationships, that would be the end of the relationship for me, too. If I can't trust somebody, I can't respect them and there is no genuine love without respect.

Em D · Member

Thank you. I'm feeling desperate for help. I'm confused as to what to do. I can try to wrap my head around our romantic relationship ending but I cannot even fathom how to live separately. We have a young child and another on the way. Neither of us has family in town and we do all of the childcare ourselves. I think I need to make a decision before my child gets any older. If I'm going to leave, I don't want him to remember us living together...

Em D · Member

There was no infidelity that I know of but he lied about drinking and everything related to that so how could I trust him not to lie about other things? I told him that trust had taken a hit. It'd take time for it to be restored... I don't think he would actually physically cheat but isn't this a small form of it? He's attaching himself emotionally to these people and now being flirty. One was flirting back. He just claims he doesn't see it that way and says I don't understand. I guess I know what I need to do. Its just a hard pill to swallow.

Em D · Member

I am insecure too. And not working on it. Looking to change that and start working on it immediately. I forsee needing a lot of strength in the days to come...

Em D · Member

@Hullibee-what trust issues are you experiencing?

milkwood · ~*Service Worker*~

I'm sorry you are going through this Em D.

I have found that the early days of recovery are very difficult regarding striking a balance between trust and autonomy. Autonomy has to be respected, but that includes yours as well as his.

When my AH shouted at me about something like this I put it down to him feeling guilty about something. It just added to my suspicions. What I needed my husband to do when my trust was broken was to be open and transparent. I wish that I had asked him if he wanted my trust and if he felt able to help me nurture that trust to grow. I would have liked us to talk about what it would take for me to give my trust to him freely.

Instead My AH also forbade me from asking. I tried to comply. It made me ill. I struggled silently, wondering what was going on. Eventually I just got on with my own life and found happy things to do that did not involve my husband. After a couple of years of that I still don't trust him and I don't particularly want to be with him. So sad. I think that what I am trying to say is that I wish that I had listened to, spoken up for, and honoured my own feelings more. Prying is not nice and I know that when I did it it undermined my own self esteem as well as hurting AH. But if trust has been damaged in the past it is not worth believing in miracles. For AH and I some compromise was needed (difficult when drink was involved

)

The practical issues are solvable as well - one step at a time. I found that imagining a friend was in the same situation as me helped. What advice would I give my friend?

Em D · Member

Thank you so much milkwood. I will take your advice. I'm sorry that you had to go through this. This has been the worst year of my life and I thought the most painful part had come and gone. This hurts much worse than taking him to rehab. It is nice to have someone who understands. I couldn't even think of a friend that I was comfortable going to with this. So thank you so much!

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Em D I wanted you to know you aren't alone. My first husband was having affairs when I was pregnant. This wasn't easy for me to face, so I remained in denial. He always denied it, too. Finally, after 12 years of marriage, he admitted it and we got divorced. He moved out. The trust was gone. I am not saying your husband is doing this, I am just sharing what I went through. Once the trust was gone in my marriage, I was done. My current AH can't be trusted either, so I moved out last March because I couldn't live with alcoholism. It's a disease that never truly goes away unless the person is working a strong program and is totally dedicated to their family's well being. If you are having trust issues, it is really hard. Will he agree to go into counseling with you? I knew I couldn't leave the marriage with a newborn baby, so I waited. You will know what to do when the time is right. I also was concerned about my health, so I got checked for STD's. Not a fun time in my life.

-- Edited by Newlife girl on Tuesday 16th of December 2014 12:12:01 PM

Em D · Member

Oh Newlife Girl. That's horrible! This is such an ugly disease and so hard for me to understand. I really don't think he has acted on it and I don't THINK that he would, but I also don't want a husband who stays up late at night flirting with people online. He'll go to counseling with me. We have on and off. I've told him since I started this post that we need to talk about the incident that happened but that I want a 3rd party involved. 1) because I'll think he'll be more honest (wow there is a statement to show me where my trust is) and 2) because he doesn't blow up when others are around. I'm trying to schedule it ASAP. Thanks to everyone for all of the support. Just typing about it on here is giving me much more realization about how I really feel about all of it. I hope, Newgirl, that is long behind you now. You deserve better than that!

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Em D I had multiple little warnings that he was cheating, but I chose to ignore them. It's so hard when kids are involved. My girls are in college now...I raised them pretty much on my own...and they turned out great!! Lol. I ignored red flags with their dad. He was cheating on me in high school but I still married him. Sometimes we make codependent choices. Are you going to Al anon? I have a sponsor, too and she has helped me a lot with my current situation.

KennyFenderjazz · ~*Service Worker*~

Hi Em, welcome to MIP,

That sounds great, my AW and I went to counseling after she got out of rehab, it was her idea, and I am so glad we did. We had a counselor that my wife met in rehab, who was experienced in addictions. This is great, because sometimes when you get a counselor not addictions experienced, too much time gets wasted trying to get the addict to stop, enabling the addict, etc, rather than digging in and making everything real between the two of you.

Keep coming back!

Kenny

Em D · Member

Thanks Kenny. We started counseling before I knew he had a drinking problem. So of course, we didn't get far since there wasn't full disclosure. Its hard for us to go. We work opposite shifts and while not working, each of us is watching our son. Its hard to call off work a lot and find situational babysitting during the day. We've taken our son before-but that's a disaster. We've only been once since he left rehab. I always suggest it and make all of the arrangements but he always goes willingly and really likes her.

I do go to meetings. Once a week, when we're in town. I didn't get a sponsor yet. I haven't started working the steps. I guess I hadn't hit complete despair. I felt like I was getting enough out of going to meetings. Now I know I need more help.

I can't thank all of you enough. I type this choking back tears: I really didn't know how to get through my day today.

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

Em from my experience it seems like as others have said, in early recovery emotions are all so new and confused. Also no longer having drugs etc to get high from, maybe the flirting etc sorta is their high?

But we don't focus on them. We look at ourselves. Which I see you are doing.

For me, I am thinking is it possible to find a time when things are not stressed, and ask him if he feels like talking. If he is calm and open, tell him how you feel, and your fear of his possibly giving attention to other women. No pointing fingers or anything. But relating how YOU feel. not saying well you won't let me see this or you won't tell me...don' use the word YOU. Say I, I feel mixed up, I feel you may want me to leave. I am afraid to live with out you.

Being pg brings in all kinds of emotions too. Your hormones make you need your mate even more, you have a baby to protect. Let him know this.

If he blows you off, or gets angry, that is his problem. As long as you stick to how you feel inside, you have done nothing wrong.

will he hold you? Is he supporting you? Look at today, not when baby is born. One day at at time. You could even ask him if he needs something more from you.

Or ask him for a date. marriage has to be worked on too,even during recovery. If you both want it, and you sound like you do, then you guys can make it work.

I know for me I know if he has lost love for the marriage. I also know i have seen that love come back.

Keep coming and letting it out. we care very much. hugs

Debilyn · ~*Service Worker*~

I went back and reread all your shares Em.

For me that is cheating. Unless you both agree it is ok to involve others of the opposite sex in your marriage it is cheating. Ask him how he would feel if you had online boyfriends?

I guess I am thinking more about the disrespect he is showing you. Me? I would tell him, well I did make it clear to my past A husband, "you get to have me and me that is it. You want someone else, there is the door, go for it. " I meant it too, he knew it.

You are his wife, mother of his child and carry his baby. YOU my dear have rights. What you say goes, if he does not comply, it is up to you to decide consequences. It can be a boundary. example, not telling you to do it: A I don't feel comfortable being a wife, mother of kids having my husband communicating with other women face to face or online. I don't want a marriage like that. see how ya don't use YOU?

Same as saying I don't want anyone bringing alcohol into my house. Not pointing fingers.

Em self confidence grows by developing it. You have a child to protect and a baby soon. You know you need a stable home for them. Him messing around is not going to work.

A home with just you and kids that is moral, no raging etc. is much better believe me. You do not need him acting like a spoiled giant kid. Which he is.

He is the age he was when he started drinking. Humans don't develop or mature when they are actively using.

My first husband died. My kids were 3 and 5. I raised them all their lives. It can be done. they both are great people.

Usually people remarry. but what I am saying is, if you see he is not willing to grow up and be responsible, it is up to how you feel, what you want.

I am serious, I know it hurts to let a marriage or relationship go. But for me, I care for me and my kids too much to put up with that kind of boloney. Just would not put up with it. To me it is saying I don't care about what you want, I don't respect you, I don't want to be married.

My A had better turn it around or byebye.

again it may be he needs that high. Trust?? I would give him a chance. But ONE time that is that.

If I married someone and they yelled at me and was inappropriate ONE time I would leave. or they would. I just don't put up with stuff.

I like me too much. I have a lot to give, and do. treat me badly you don't get to be part of me.

soooo there is another perspective.

I sure hope you keep coming. we will support you thru whatever you need. hugs

Newlife girl · ~*Service Worker*~

Em...you will find that it helps just to come here and share. I do it often, especially when I'm having a hard day. People here always understand and make me feel better....you aren't alone.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

grateful2be wrote:
As a woman, a husband's infidelity is a deal breaker to me because it strikes at my heart/my core. It also brings risks to my health and to my wellbeing considering the fact an active A isn't always going to choose a healthy woman to bed with when they're finding them in bars. If I felt the need to check up on my x's comings and goings and relationships, that would be the end of the relationship for me, too. If I can't trust somebody, I can't respect them and there is no genuine love without respect.

DITTO AND DITTO.....with sex diseases to add to the disgusting , revolting thought of him "sharing" his body, I wouldn't let anyone touch me if that were to happen...dunno if my X's cheated, but let me say this...the "devil made me do it" does not work in this....a cheater is a cheater....drinking or not and if you saw this once, you can expect it again......I agree with what grateful says here....if i cannot trust, i cannot love....they go together.......and w/out respect?? I'm GONE....the fact he was sneaky, trying to hide, etc., tells me he is not to be trusted w/anything........first you have the disease to deal with and now this....I am so so sorry this happened to you.....to me?? his being an alcoholic, would mean hes on probation...stay in program, stay sober or i am gone and add this??? nope, probation would be cancelled.......i know they say wait to make decisions, but you have to follow your gut instincts...noone can tell you how to handle this.....i can only say what i would do......so sorry, i hope you keep working program for YOU....IN SUPPORT

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Debilyn wrote:
I like me too much. I have a lot to give, and do. treat me badly you don't get to be part of me.
soooo there is another perspective.
I sure hope you keep coming. we will support you thru whatever you need. hugs

this applies to all my relationship....boy-girl or just friends, or whatever........anyone wants to treat me bad??? depending on who they are they MAY get ONE chance, but usually, and i say it depends on who it is and what they did, i usually don't go back for 2nds..........as to this?? to me it is cheating unless you BOTH have open relationship and YOU can have male friends, etc.....

Me??? I like to share , but NEVER my man.....

Em D · Member

Again! Thanks to all for the feed back. I've burst into tears several times. I had to tell my son I had a boo boo and stop reading until I put him to bed. I'm getting ready to try to get all my thoughts straight before our counseling meeting I scheduled tomorrow. I wanted a mediator. I'm leaning one way but I want to have all the facts. Hopefully he cooperates. Thank you so so much. I hope I can offer the same for you some day.

neshema2 · ~*Service Worker*~

Em D wrote:
I wanted a mediator. I'm leaning one way but I want to have all the facts. Hopefully he cooperates. Thank you so so much. I hope I can offer the same for you some day.

Dear Em..........unless he gets into AA and strong program, there really isn't any hope that i can see......he is flirting w/girls on the chat rooms , MANY alcoholics do NOT do that kind of cheating and yes, it is a form of cheating, flirting with other gals, he vowed to forsake all others for you...to me?? this is not appropriate, and it isn't becuz he is an alcoholic...I have known A's who don't cheat or fraternize w/other women becuz it is not in them...oh yea, they will lie, con, manipulate to get their booze, oh yea, but other women?? even flirting is a HUGE red flag.....

I really hope U can find the best solution...i can't imagine suffering this with being pregnant....that has to be the hardest.....i feel for ya, i really do, however if i were you i would get into some alanon meetings ASAP and begin living for you, whether you leave him or not., the recovery rate for alcoholics is about 15-25% at best....they are just not a better's dream...Unless they completely submit/surrender to the program, guaranteed they will relapse and keep drinking and then their health goes, their minds begin to go, then you are dealing with a sick man who can't even work, and who could still be "on line" flirting w/women b/c THEY don't know what he is....he needs his esteem built up by flirting, feeling attractive to other girls.....on line flirting can or can not escalate...there is sexting where people exchange selfies on texts....oh yea, i hate to scare you..i really really feel bad saying this , but i've been there with , i don't think my husbands, but boyfriends and when i saw that??? the flirting?? i was GONE!!!

I am selfish on that one point....its either ME or the highway....I don't share my guy...not at all....he is into me or he can leave.....it is exclusive or it is not existent......and with the diseases now, i am even more strict.......cheating....beating......substance abuse are deal breakers for me........

whatever you do, please hang onto alanon, b/c it is your life raft....we are here for you but we cannot absorb this journey of yours, all we can do is share what WE experienced and you take what smells right and pass on the rest.....this is YOUR life and i would love to see you, married or single, staying w/him or leaving, living FOR you and those kids....

alanon will teach you how to live for yourself b/c essentially you are going to be a married woman in legalities, but single as to living....hanging out w/healthy people., you will meet other nice, sober people in the meetings where you make friends and share and there will be old timers there who can guide you how to live your life for you, about you, taking care of you, yea, he will be there, but if he is in AA , he will be married to the program until he can , after a few years, offer a healthy half to the relationship, OR he will be drinking in and out of rehab and either way, alanon will teach you how to let go, detach, let him to his own devices as you get strong and independent within yourself

many women stay and they just live their own lives...it works for them b/c of finances or maybe minor children, they can't leave just yet, some even go the long haul, I wouldn't but some do and the ones who succeed are the ones who just let him go.....detach from his problems, let him do his thing while she does her thing, they live together and maybe they can relate ok with each other, but she or if it is a he, the "alanoner" learns if they work their program, that they can forge their own path, their own fun, their own entertainment

its kinda sad, being married, but having to live a life essentially alone, but whatever you do, alanon will help you take care of you, focus on you, quit thinking of him and what hes doing or not doing, alanon will help you grow into you....

we are here, listening, good luck on meet tomorrow...i would go w/expecations of information gathering....let him PROVE and EARN your trust......what do we look at when we really want to know how a person is feeling?? thinking???

their actions or their words???? what do you belive the most???? i bet its his ACTIONS

well , if he wants to save this marriage, let him SHOW you with SUSTAINED good ACTIONS.....and i say SUSTAINED, not just be good for a few months then slip back......let him PROVE it.....WHILE you work on YOU in ALANON

good luck, so sorry you are going through this.....i was reading your post and the replies and thinking.....wow, i feel for anyone in her situation, but all we can do , here, is to tell you what WE experienced and what WE did to take care of ourselves......hope you find some good meetings near you, you are gonna need alanon BIG time and you will LOVE it........IN SUPPORT

Em D · Member

I took a lot from what everyone has said and had a long talk with him last night about it. we talked about what I read and why it made me uncomfortable. But his response, it wasn't flirting. He doesn't feel bad that I got upset because he didn't do anything wrong. I asked, even if it wasn't flirting, doesn't it mean anything that it made me, your pregnant wife, uncomfortable and for several valid reasons that we discussed. NOPE! I'm wrong, he's right.

I did schedule us for couples counseling today. I've tried to get back to my literature and be engaged on here. I told him I wanted to go to my meeting before we left town for the Holidays. my main priority now is going to be getting a sponsor. I need to work the steps and start focusing on myself. I guess I'll just have to wait and see where it takes me.

It's a very lonely. I'm so happy that I came into this fellowship. I have good friends, but none who really understand what this is like. Being able to relate is so healing.

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