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Post Info TOPIC: who is it hardest on?


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who is it hardest on?


Hi folks, I'm new here. I am an adult child of an alcoholic father. He has been gone a very long time now. My partner's sister and her husband were also alcoholics. They had 2 kids, who are 13 years apart. I am very close to both boys. The older child was about 12 when his parents' drinking got completely out of hand. A year later, his brother was born, and the younger boy never knew either of his parents sober a single day of his life until he was 12 and his mom passed away and his dad got sober. My question is, was it worse for the older boy, dealing with alcoholic parents as a teen, or worse for the younger boy, who has spent his entire childhood with drunk parents?



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~*Service Worker*~

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I don't know, Cloudchaser. Only the boys would be able to share their experience of what living with alcoholics was like for them. One thing I do know is that alcoholism affects an entire family for generations in both known and in hidden ways. Neither of my parents were As, but each had a parent who were both heavy drinkers. I was in my 50s when I was able to answer the question: "How did I end up marrying an A? How did my son end up being an A?" I could see the problem in my x and later in his FOO. I couldn't see it in my own or the effect it had on me as a child until I was much older because the disease was so well hidden in my FOO ancestry. Since you are an adult child of an A, have you been able to attend ACOA meetings or Al-Anon meetings for yourself?

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



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Its not a competition. Its equally bad for both of them in different ways. One may have a case of the what ifs, remember whens, and a sense of poignant loss. The other may have a deeper shame to have only ever had crazy parents. I kinda cant help but wonder why you ask?



-- Edited by aquamom23 on Friday 28th of November 2014 10:42:52 PM

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I was born and raised within the disease.  I always thought I was adopted into the family.  I knew other kids that had it different which convinced me more that I had been adopted and what made me sad among other feelings was that I had no choice in it from the very beginning.  In Al-Anon I learned after the fact that alcoholism affects everyone it comes into contact with negatively while I also started learning about acceptance of that which I could never and can never change and the affect on me began to fall off like scabs and I started separating from my family of origin by becoming the person I wanted to be.  Trying to be a loving son or brother or person within the family disease of alcoholism was a crap shoot because my choices and actions were judged by those under the influence.  Thank God for the Al-Anon Family Groups and the MIP family....both adopted me into a better, closer more loving atmosphere.  I sponsored Alateen for 6 years and I understood completely where they were coming from, understood about their family lives and where they wanted to be.   It's hardest on everyone of all ages.   Just for me.   ((((hugs)))) smile

Keep coming back.



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Poor kids! In terms of dealing with life later on, it might be better for the older boy as he has seen what a normal relationship looks and feels like. So he will have some stepping stones and perhaps some insight into what makes a good partnership and things to avoid. The younger one is going to have to forge his own way as he has never seen a stable marriage. It can be done though. Different scenario, but my husband's mother was a very cold, unloving person and none of her children can ever remember her telling them that she loved them. He was awed by my mom when he met her as she was the epitomy of what a mother should be, raising her own twelve and all their lonely friends. He learned so much from her about what a parent should be. Those boys are lucky to have you in their lives so they can view first hand how people can function without the crutch of alcohol.

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It is difficult to say which child has been more affected by the disease, as each response differently. They are not alone and I believe that alateen would be beneficial to them both.

I pray they find the support in those rooms



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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud
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Welcome to MIP- you're in the right place. You describe a very difficult and sad situation. Alcoholism is a powerful, cunning and baffling progressive disease that, un-arrested by abstinence and a supportive 12 step program, ends in insanity or death. This disease affects and can devastate everyone within reach- I have come to learn that suffering is universal and over the years I have seen so much suffering that it makes no sense to wonder who is suffering more. Anyone suffering from having exposure to an A can benefit from the skills and support that Alanon provide. Please keep coming back and you'll see how the program can improve your situation.

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aquamom23 wrote:

Its not a competition. Its equally bad for both of them in different ways. One may have a case of the what ifs, remember whens, and a sense of poignant loss. The other may have a deeper shame to have only ever had crazy parents. I kinda cant help but wonder why you ask?



-- Edited by aquamom23 on Friday 28th of November 2014 10:42:52 PM


 I didn't grow up with alcoholism in the home, but I grew up with a mother who developed mental illness and you just described me and my sister to a tee. I was the kid with the sense of poignant loss and my sister had a sense of shame. I am thinking it is time to learn about FOO issues. 

So my point is I think it affects everyone, although everyone may have different response/reactions or emotions. Her and I had a rough relationship because she could not understand my reaction and I could not understand hers. I didn't take it personally however I was loyal when loyalty was not deserved. She took it more personally but could see when the behavior was unacceptable better than I could. 



-- Edited by Truth on Saturday 29th of November 2014 03:18:13 PM



-- Edited by Truth on Saturday 29th of November 2014 03:28:51 PM



-- Edited by Truth on Saturday 29th of November 2014 03:29:35 PM

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~*Service Worker*~

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Hey Cloud...GOOD question....I kinda think it affects EVERYONE.....like grateful said, it can go down generations as say a person has drunk parents, but they stay sober and have kids, they are still an ACA  (adult child of alcoholics)  with the "isms" that go w/the alcoholism....I am not an alcoholic, but i am a co-addict or codependent with many "isms"  that go to the disease of my mothers drinking.....it affects down through the generations, but the buck is stopping w/me b/c i am in recovery,  learning new and healthier ways to live and therefore  , my girls got my coda traits, but one is in program, the other is not, so really it messes up an entire family, younger children, older children,   just my opinion......glad you brought this up



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The reason I ask, Aquamom, is kind of complicated. I have a relationship with both of these boys. The older boy and I have discussed alcoholism in our parents at some length. The older boy had a sweet life until he was about 12, that's when his dad fell into a bottle of Old Grandad and never climbed out again. His teen years were tainted by his parents' drinking.  When the younger boy was 3, his parents abandoned the older boy and moved out of state. My partner and I took the older boy in while he finished high school and got a job, and finally moved out on his own. He never had a relationship with his younger brother until 10 years later. The older boy is very hard on the younger boy. He says his younger brother has been "babied"...but from my perspective, the younger child never had a stable home until about the age of 13. For the ten years he was away from his older brother, his parents were drink-til-you-pass-out drunks. He had nothing. They were homeless until he was 6. The older boy doesn't seem to recognize the profound impact that lifestyle had on his younger brother, and he says having alcoholic parents was much harder for him as a teen than it was for his younger brother. I have tried to urge the older boy to get therapy, but he is insulted that I would even suggest it.



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~*Service Worker*~

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Cloud this is where the program comes into play.  It did for me and millions of others.  The other story from those who have also suffered very similarly.   I got what I needed to understand from outside of my family of origin and if I had not been able to find "other" voices than my family I would be dead or in a psych ward long term.  Alateen for the younger one or at least Alateen literature which you can find at the al-non.org site...for the elder one face to face meetings either at Adult Children or Al-Anon.   We know what works best with least cost don't we?    (((((hugs))))) smile



-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 3rd of December 2014 11:44:30 AM

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~*Service Worker*~

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I agree Jerry. Unfortunately they have both been significantly affected by the disease and trying to determine how much more suffering one endured compared to the other is very subjective and unproductive.

Alanon and alateen will help both, when they are ready.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


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I understand you are concerned about the young people who are affected by the disease.  I do find myself wondering about you and whether or not you attend Al-Anon meetings for yourself?  Maybe you've said so in a previous post and I missed it?  If you don't, I'd like to offer you the suggestion to attend at least 6 meetings to determine whether or not Al-Anon is for you?  As a recovering codependent, I spent my pre-recovery days concerned about everybody but me.  I could see the pain others were in.  I couldn't see my own.  I had stuffed it so far down that when I finally was able to focus on me and my own healing, I was more than surprised by what came up for me about me.  When I had finished doing extensive work on myself, my ribcage actually hurt and was sore almost like I felt when I had pneumonia and coughed so extensively every muscle in my upper diaphragm ached and it hurt to touch my ribcage.  I also felt an emptiness behind my ribcage and in my solar plexus that came from me doing a lot of letting go of all the thoughts and feelings I had hidden or repressed or shoved down.  Up until that time, I had been sick often from multiple illnesses and diseases that disappeared when I started attending to myself and my own needs.

Perhaps you are already in Al-Anon?  If so, good for you.  If not, the help that has been offered for the young people in your life may also be the wisdom of your HP for you?



-- Edited by grateful2be on Wednesday 3rd of December 2014 10:02:44 PM

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Thank you, Grateful2be. I have not attended any Alanon meetings,  but perhaps it would give me insight into my continuing relationship problems.



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~*Service Worker*~

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It did that for me.  I'm glad you're open to going to face to face meetings.  We find if we keep an open mind we find help and hope for ourselves.  Alcoholism is a family disease that badly affects both the drinker and those who love him or her.  We can't change the alcoholic or the past.  But, we can change our own lives for the better by working the program, attending meetings, and finding a good sponsor when the time is right.  Until that time, just listening to others share in the meetings will be a big help to you.  Sometimes, you might wonder if the person speaking has been living in your house.smile  Come back here, too.



-- Edited by grateful2be on Friday 5th of December 2014 10:41:56 PM

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



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that's so terribly sad cloud. I feel for both of them, it must be difficult for you to watch them divided. Alanon is to me a fantastic way of learning to relate healthily to those so closely affected by alcoholism. It is doubtful to me that either boy/young man has learned to meet their emotional needs in a healthy way growing up with this. My opinion only. I hope you keep coming back, a life lived well is often the best gateway to something new for our loved ones. May the holiday season bring you joy.



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