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Post Info TOPIC: How to QTIP


Senior Member

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How to QTIP


Quit Taking it Personally...

How?

If I think the smallest things are personal? But maybe they aren't and the problem is in my head?

How to know the difference?



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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.



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Oh and I don't mean only from an A but people in general.

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Sometimes the smallest step in the right direction ends up being the biggest step of your life. Tip toe if you must but take the step.



~*Service Worker*~

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I don't always manage this Luiza!

I try to trust my own judgement. When someone says something that upsets me I look at what they said, weigh it up with my experience, consider whether or not they are talking about me or about themselves (projecting), consider if there is any value in what they've said. If there is some truth to what has been said then I look at what I might be able to learn from it.

Usually it turns out that the other person is having a bad day and I just happened along at the wrong moment.

When other peoples words upset me I turn to a list of nice things that people have said about me to remind myself that what they say is not the complete picture.

When other people do something that upsets me I acknowledge that I can't control everything and that they might be just doing what they think is right for them.

When I was a teenager I was tall and gangly and I used to think that if someone sniggered on the top deck of the bus then they were laughing at me. Of course that was not the case. It took me a while to realise that I was not that important and that nine times out of ten it is not about me!

PS I met an albino peacock when I was a child - the image of its tail opening has stayed with me all these years, one of the most beautiful things ever. Thank you for posting here with your beautiful avatar and reminding me of that lovely memory, it is a gift!

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~*Service Worker*~

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Step 1 can be applied to what other people say as much as it can be applied to an A and to the disease. We are as powerless over what other people think, feel and do as we are their drinking. Although QTIP is a helpful slogan, without continual meetings, step work and sponsorship, it wasn't helpful to me. The more I practiced the program with others, the more I could utilize its wisdom. People could tell me not to take things personally all day long. I was taking things personally because I am a heart person, so working the steps with the help of a sponsor was a greater help to me. I did find that asking myself "Whose business am I in?" to be more helpful. If somebody said something that was upsetting to me, by asking that question I could better focus on myself and what I was thinking, feeling and doing. If I didn't like my thoughts, feelings or behaviors, I could change them according to Al-Anon principles. I couldn't change the other person's thoughts, feelings or behaviors and by focusing on myself the desire to do so got applied to the right person - me. I could regain my serenity that way.

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



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I've learned a lovely new word in al-anon. "Trigger." This is becoming so very valuable to me. In my relationship with A and surprisingly, with others. When something happens, or is said, that brings up a memory or a feeling from the past - that's a trigger. What is happening in the present reminds me of something in the past - mostly something negative. My present self jumps right back into the past and starts to feel the feelings from the past, usually hurt, anger, sadness, etc. Now, what is being said in the present may or may not be the same thing as what happened in the past, but it doesn't seem to matter. Just like a Pavlovian dog, when that bell rings, my mouth waters. Or when I hear a certain phrase or see a certain action, I jump to conclusions. Thanks to al-anon I'm starting (slowly) to recognize that I'm doing it. The recognition still happens a little too late, but I am starting to see when I do it. The goal for me is to stop in the moment and ask myself if my reaction is based on the present, or on something from the past.

A non-al-anon example. I am the youngest of three girls. Last week my mother had knee-replacement surgery and me and my two sisters rotated shifts of helping out in the hospital and at home. One sister in particular can piss me off with just a look, not to mention the snide remarks. When something happened and she snapped at me for no good reason, my eyes filled with tears and I had to leave the room. I ranted in the hospital hallway for a good two hours before I was ready to go back in the room, and I had a full set of armor on when I did go back in. For her, it was over the second it happened. For me, it went on way too long. I took it personally - she didn't mean to reduce me to tears and bring up years of bad memories. She let it go. I hung on. Why, oh why I do I do that to myself? I should had reacted with QTIP. Lesson was learned, but not before it ruined the day for me. The outcome? When my dad took the sister to airport, apparently she raved to him about how helpful I was and how my out-of-the-box thinking came in very handy to some very Type A (almost OCD) people. I'm the odd one in the family and have always felt stupid. At the end of the week, I was highly praised for my ability to solve problems when no one else could. All that fuming for nothing. QTIP would have been a useful tool, lol.

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~*Service Worker*~

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QTIP The ODAT states that even if it "has my name on it " i should not take it personally-- it has nothing to do with me and everthing ot do with the other person--- UNLESS I helped to create the situation .

I need to examine the situation, my motives own my part in it , and if necessary make amends. Getting hurt and taking it persoanlly is simply a destructive "reaction ".

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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QTIP takes a lot of detachment on my part. I'm a very emotional person. I would allow my feelings to be hurt easily. When I think back to the person I used to be, I'm sorry for her. I now know in a lot of situations, not just with my ah, I allowed myself to be in situations where I would be hurt. This allowed me to be the victim. This was the cycle I was stuck in before Al-Anon. By using detachment, I know how to walk away from situations that I used to get "sucked" into. Detachment, to me, is a kind of freedom and power. It used to really bother me if people did not like me, but now I understand it's not any of my business what someone else thinks of me. I've stopped taking what other people think of me personal.

What I need to concentrate on is taking care of me.

It works if you work it.

 



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Look for the rainbow after the storm, and I'm sending you a double dose of HOPE. H-hold  O-on  P-pain E-ends

Linda-



~*Service Worker*~

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With these shares I'll throw in one of my own past lessons which included finding out that I was a very defensive personality.  I'm oppositional defiant also (and not near as much as before) so I could trigger often in the weirdest ways until I learned the slogan, "Its not all about me".  I could rationalize that it was true and rationalize isn't about acting on it.  I practiced until I got the slogan into the behavior of "not taking it personally"  QTIPping.  Most of the time now about the only thing that will trigger a reaction from me that is not required is fear and even there I often use the same negative tools toward reaction.   Maybe some of this will  help...((((hugs))))   In support smile



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~*Service Worker*~

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milkwood wrote:


I try to trust my own judgement. When someone says something that upsets me I look at what they said, weigh it up with my experience, consider whether or not they are talking about me or about themselves (projecting), consider if there is any value in what they've said. If there is some truth to what has been said then I look at what I might be able to learn from it.

Usually it turns out that the other person is having a bad day and I just happened along at the wrong moment.

When other peoples words upset me I turn to a list of nice things that people have said about me to remind myself that what they say is not the complete picture.


 hey Milkwood, this is exactly what i do, now, finally, LOL....oh qtip was a biggie for me, but i do what you do and yep,...it works....most of the time i can ascertain that it was their bad day, not mine...sometimes, depending on who it is,  i ask them "whats up???"   If it is someone important to me or even not, I sometimes will clarify b/c maybe i did do/say something i need to make amends for and i don't see it....or i am innocent and i can just not worry.....but the bottom line is, I don't jump to judge and condemn me anymore....



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

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For me, ive built up some self esteem now that I dont really care what anyone thinks or says about me, well not for long anyway because in my experience everyone has issues and experiences that mean most peoples thinking isnt that great. Im probably the healthiest thinker I know if you dont count my alanon buds here and at meetings. I know that might mean im arrogant but im a bit like whatever, ive done more work on me and know me better than anyone so whatever you think about me is irrelevant and cant possibly be based on solid evidence. I have the solid evidence and even then there are parts of me that I havent reached yet but unless someone had 20 years in alanon, well maybe 10, then I would be really keen on what theyve got to say about me, then again mayne not. It could be an age thing, since reaching 40 im like, whatever, who cares, I dont really care what anyone else thinks.

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I hope you care about this one El Cee...You have grown a lot since first coming here...a lot!!  I hope you have a sponsee or two.   (((hugs))) smile



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~*Service Worker*~

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Definately care what you say jerry, one of only a few mind you.x

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I really liked and appreciated this post. This weekend I had lots of triggers as my A was home part-time for the holidays, which in itself was a trigger as for the last 6 years he never really was a "part of" so him showing up, then leaving to go back to the 3/4 way house, deciding to have me cook a brisket for the guys on Saturday so they could have a "family" meal, him deciding to loan someone money to pay their cell phone bill when he doesn't pay for his own, taking on special committments the entire month when he knows he is to be working on our stuff....all became really personal to me and I got really angry and frustrated with him and now I have to review the entire mess and figure out did I have motives for losing my cool, my initial answer is no of course as I am only human but in reflecting I have no motive, if you are working a marriage recovery program than do it, and stop interjecting your stuff in the process, next him using half measures on our first sober holiday in years frustrates me to no end, so what motive did I have for blowing up...I don't know yet. I am pretty sure I didn't help create the mess of a holiday that had to be worked in all around his legal, house and committment stuff so that one baffles me right now as well.

 

I get confused on QTIP so much sometimes, when is it not taking it personally and when is it just being a doormat and walked on and having no reaction, no expressions of your own wants, needs, desires in a relationship.....I need to work on this one a whole lot I can tell just from reading the posts.

 

 



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Linda

Don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will have it's own worries

Matthew 6:34



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Flower, I think its about accepting that his chaotic behaviour and decisions are about his disease rather than as a way to upset you. Its not that you should accept unacceptable behaviour, you shouldnt. Its like wearing armour, what he says and does cant hurt you because why would you let it? This behaviour that you dont like may never go away. What you can do is, seperate your money so if he impulsively feels the need to pay something for someone then its no skin off your nose. If he asks you to cook something, you can say no, why feel the need to and then resent it? If his life is chaotic and without any prioritising then maybe this is all hes got right now, it could be that your expecting more than is possible, I know expectations can set me up for a fall. It might be worth considering that what you see is what you get with this guy and the real questiin is, can you live with it?

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El-cee, thanks for the great words of wisdom. I do have expectations of my husband and I don't think it's wrong to have them. So for example, if you want to be my husband than you have to be a 50/50 partner in everything, not just what you pick and choose. (Now that he is sober) Sometimes I feel like we are to have no expectations of a grown man because poor him is sick with an addiction. Yes it's a disease, but folks with other diseases don't for the most part use it as a crutch all the time to get out of being grown ups.

I do have separate money, and I make a whole heck of lot more than he does and pay for 90% of all the bills while he is in rehab, but I get so mad that I have to hear that I am such an enabler, a rescuer, a co-dependent (all determined by the A's in the home during house meeting nites, LOL) yet they encourage that behavior in his group home....hmmmmm if you can't pay your cell bill I guess you don't have a cell so don't ask to borrow money from someone else...and no where in the big book or any recovery program have I ever seen that you should loan money to someone.

I got hooked into the cooking thing because I wasn't on my game working my program as I was wiped out from Thanksgiving and Black Friday and he asked me over speaker phone in front of everyone, I stuttered and then said I guess. So that is on me. I got hooked.

You are right he lives a chaotic mess of a life and it is fueled by his rehab environment, part of that entire plan is marriage counseling and marriage recovery, which is ordered by his group home and his probation officer, so when I actually said in court one day I wasn't going to waste any more time trying this counseling/recovery program as we don't do anything that is suggested or advised, we are not making any transition to him coming back into the real world after 90 days now and coming home every other weekend being date mates isn't cutting it. I got shushed up by his lawyer and told that I better do it or it will be bad for him. Seriously, I looked at her and laughed and said, Last time I checked there is no law that says I have to stay married to him, work on it with him, nothing, just because he is in criminal trouble and if you think it will be so bad if we don't go anymore, why don't you get right up there in front of the judge and tell him he/we can't do this because the group home blocks every suggestion made by the licensed mental health, addiction marriage counselor because in their words, he doesn't know anything anyway and his marriage isn't important because he can only do recovery from now on and think only of himself...these guys are such trained counselors LOL

Accepting his behavior, I can do to a point, but when I see signs of using that as a way to manuever, manipulate, be dishonest to have the outcome he wants. That is where my line in the sand is drawn, not going to do it no matter how sick he is....I believe you know what you are up to, you know it's not the next right thing, so what's the excuse now as to why you continue on with bad behaviors and not use the tools program... no one ever answers that question other than to say Well it's because I am sick,,,, I don't get to say I do things crazy because I am so sick with co-dependency or because I am addicted to an addict.

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Linda

Don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will have it's own worries

Matthew 6:34



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You could say that Flower. You could say you are sick with codependency and addicted to the addict. You are getting irritated that someone who has been a serious meth head for years and now has 7 months sober in a group home doesn't function like good husband material. It's like you are staring at a pile of poop and getting mad that it doesn't turn into gold.

IF (and this is a big IF) he ever is going to grow into a person you can truly respect as an equal, it's going to require a lot of work and time on both of your parts. It could be that you are so used to putting him down and having an inferior husband you don't even acknowledge it. So why are you so critical and upset and judging of his recovery? Maybe you should look at you. Are you addicted to him? Are you sick with codependency? Would you even be ready or accepting of a truly equal partner? Have you ever had that with him? What is in this for you? You do get to say it and you might at well rather than just act all mad and upset over his crap.

By the way - I would have the same reaction to much of what you posted - except these days my tolerance for it would be far lower. You could not pay me enough to be with a meth addict with just 7 months sober who lives in a group home when I work this hard to just have my own crap together. Nope. Not me. You have your reasons and I respect that, but it's you who is staying in it.

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You are right I could say it, but I don't say it because people in the "real" world all or most of whom could stand to be in some type of recovery program don't understand, accept and make judgements, plus I am not a person that copes out and uses excuses sick or not.

I am irritated, I am paying for marriage counseling, wasting my time, and wasting my money. Part of my irritation with time might be due to the fact that I am quickly approaching fifty in a month and looking back I think of how much time I have wasted. It is going to take a lot of work and a lot of time and I am painfully aware of that as is our marriage counselor who by the way has 48 years sober, is well respected in the recovery world for being an explorer on blended marriages such as mine. It's time wasting and money wasting to see him, get some fantastic suggestions for me, for him and for us, be given things to do to work on this and then the minute he heads to to the boys club it's all undermined. I am a person that just can't stand WASTE, nor one that tolerates to well a group home full of alcoholic/addicts with under a year sober, most not nor never married giving sage advice to my AH on this issue which he in turns tries to apply, it's complete insanity.

I don't put my husband down to him or others publicly, it may seem to you I am putting him down, but I do come to vent here and ask questions, you are correct in the sense that he is not my equal and it's not that he can't be, he chose the path of his long time love Meth and now he has to face the music and in my eyes you do the crime do the time, man up and get to moving if you say you are doing this. I am not addicted to my husband and actually value the time, space, peace and happiness I have when he is not around. I do have co dependency issues and I have to work on those every single day, every single minute, however I don't use that as an excuse as to why I don't progress or make right decisions or hurt others, I don't toss it out there to get sympathy and instant pity so I don't have to own my actions.

I can honestly tell you I am ready and accepting of a normal sober husband, in fact my first husband was just that and we were married a long time until he died. I don't know what relationship I have had with this one as it's all been drug induced. He was quite adept at hiding his using until the last year and a half. We did what any normal married couple does, work, pay bills, hang out, go on vacations, have holiday traditions all of the usual stuff.  As our counselor told me what I didn't know I didn't know and couldn't do anything about it, however now that the wool has been removed from my eyes it's up to me to be ever seeing. For the most part I have spent all that time pretty much by myself doing what ever I want to do when I want to do it and I take care of myself without any help from him, which he is ever so resentful over. We struggle with that because at this very minute in time there is no way I would trust him financially, for security, to maintain confidentiality, to be there for me...I am crazy but not that crazy. He wants that all to be restored now, because the group home says it should be, last time I checked it doesn't really work that way.

What's in it for me, well my husband being restored to the funny, gentle, loving, hard working guy I used to know. I stay because more times that not now in this leg of the journey I see who I used to know and I like it. I stay because I believe in the institution of marriage and my covenant between God and my husband "till death do us part", "through sickness and health" "through richer and poorer" and when my frustrations are on high, I ask myself one question What would Jesus want me to do?

I look at myself each morning and each evening. When I do good, I am the first one who cheers me on, when I do bad, I promptly make amends to whoever and firstly to God.

I am not judging his recovery, I am however judging the way the approach is being made. I have never in all my years known a substance abuse treatment facility to encourage disrespect, lack of accountability, dishonest and deceiving towards your family be encouraged, I have never experienced or known about a program to call family member names, diagnose a family member without ever seeing that person, talking to that person. I am not critical of his attempt to stay sober, I just see a whole lot of red flags that very well may lead him right back into Meth land, it doesn't take a genius to see the behaviors front and center right under your nose. I have a very bad habit of calling a spade a spade when I see it. I have also called that spade out to the counselor who has made many attempts to talk with the staff counselors to no avail.

If he has a right to recovery, I do also. If he has a right to freedom from responsibility to his marriage and all that encompasses, because he is in recovery than I do as well. You have given me some great things to think about such as just pulling an A maneuver and waltzing on out of my responsibilities, it seems to be the ok thing to do and even encouraged if you are alcoholic/addict. That is where in lies the rub for me.

My final thought, I come here to express my thoughts, feelings, confusions, questions, not to bash or put down anyone. If that is what it seems like then I apologize.



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Linda

Don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will have it's own worries

Matthew 6:34



~*Service Worker*~

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I think all of this applies to the QTIP concept. I see you facing lots of things that are really unfair and not right but that you have no control over. I believe that him being legally involved is making your ordeal more trying. Voluntary treatment centers try to work more collaboratively with family in general. You are dealing with a place that is part correctional. They don't need to advertise quality care for loved ones. He is court ordered so they can do whatever and you are getting the shaft because it not a real treatment facility persay. It's designed generally for lawbreaker chronic relapsers it sounds like and not conducive to older married persons. They treat him like a thug junkie and you like an idiot for being with him. Not fair...not right...but it simply is...I am familiar with court ordered treatment. It is not okay for people in early recovery to be crappy spouses. Sadly, it just works out that way much of the time. I venture to say people in early recovery don't make good relationship material and it's probably the case for a couple years. Nobody could stand dating my crazy ass until I was a couple years sober. All I did was go to meetings, cry to my sponsor, and whine for a good while. I am just concerned based on what I know of the recovery process (especially a court involved one) and how it seems at odds with what you want from him right now. And I agree...it is not right or fair. Simple fact though - for the whole first year people generally only learn how to get through the day without getting drunk or high and that is a pretty major accomplishment for a serious drunk/junkie.

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~*Service Worker*~

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PC I love your honesty. Staring at a pile of poop and waiting for it to turn into gold!! What an accurate description of what I have been doing. How long can a a person keep waiting for someone to change?? Well, for me it was about 11 years. Long enough. Thats when i hit my rock bottom.

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Living life one step at a time



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PC - I appreciate the E/S/H you shared with me and also shedding some light onto the circumstances. Sometimes I have to get a reality check from persons in my group and this group. You are very correct in the fact that this place does do things based on the majority of persons come to them right of prison and so everyone is treated as if they are a felon, which in mind is hurtful because if you are an addict/alcoholic and your crimes are related to that issue, being treated as if you are lesser because of that is hypocritical because saying to them you are so sick with a disease, don't be ashamed etc. and then turning around and degrading and humiliating them for this is stupid but all that is a discussion is for another day.

I am taking an in-depth look at the dynamics of him being cast as nothing more than an idiot junkie and me an idiot for staying in this with him. It's not fair and the truth of the matter is life is not fair and that is where I know I need to beef up my program, my attitude and my relationship with my HP. It is also a good reminder that he has to struggle each day with just trying to remain sober, and learning to live like a grown up has to be just as trying.

Thank you for your words of wisdom, sometimes having all of you here for me helps me to open my mind and heart and become more objective.

((Hugs and much love))

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Linda

Don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow will have it's own worries

Matthew 6:34



~*Service Worker*~

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Flower it seems to me that you are at the threshold of the "change the things I can" door and inspecting and inventorying the real justifications you have for crossing over it. I relate to your religious culture justifications for not including the question "What would Jesus do"? which by the way I also spent time on when I was where you are at now to a degree and such.  What I learned from talking with those who marry and from my religious culture up bringing and my education regarding chemical addictions and my new awareness of how I was raised in the disease was that if I didn't save and have my own life then none of it mattered much for the good.  My marriage vows were mutual and when they stopped becoming mutual even to the detriment of the marriage itself and the individuals involved and after trying I acknowledged that I was powerless to have the vows be "mutually" existent then I could take my willingness to be in a mutual relationship elsewhere.  I had to have a partner with mutual awareness, wants and needs and willingness to do the same.  That rarely if ever can happen when the disease of addiction is present mostly because the dedication (addiction) to the chemical and those who are similarly cultured and the consequences will not allow for it.  ...."Until death do we part"   Chemical addiction is death mind, body, spirit and emotion in spite of physical presence.  We are and don't exist.  What would Jesus do?...Try some research as I did on this one and maybe look at it more realistically more from what was his real behavior..."What did Jesus do" and allow him to be mentor and/or sponsor.  What Jesus did was "walked" away from "them".   If he had done anything different would be have the condition and problem today?  Although I have seen many miracles in recovery from when I first came into the doors of Al-Anon; including my own...I have never seen one where the addict, alcoholic, family member wasn't willing to be a part of it and too not all miracles appear to be glorious events...some take on the high definition perspective of an ass kicking, like some of my own and then still I was willing to do what was necessary to give the necessary change that only a power much greater than myself could and would engineer.   If you are biblically schooled go back to the NT and read the conversations and events and see if a lot of them fall into the description of "enabling".  What was enabled was the condition for change, healing and recovery and nothing else. 

We  make bad choices and it is our responsibility to make amends for the consequences of those bad choices.   HP doesn't favor my bad choices and doesn't condone the negative consequences of them.  My HP desires and supports that I make the amends rather than to carry on the progressive worseness of it all.  That is why one of my 9th steps was a divorce.   My sponsor's help came with the statement "When you find out that you have done something wrong it is your responsibility to go back and make it right".   I did two things with that...I came to love her and came to understand that I had no need to be married to her.  We parted comfortably in love.

Life isn't "all about me" what I do and don't do affects others also and so often I have to get myself out of the way of others "get over myself" and leave them alone.  

Just some program experiences.   (((((hugs))))) smile



-- Edited by Jerry F on Wednesday 3rd of December 2014 02:29:00 PM

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~*Service Worker*~

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Flower, thanks for sharing your program here, its good to see how others work it and share their thoughts in this way. I can learn a lot from it. Its like your digging in and wanting to get to the truth of it and your getting there. Its your willingness thats obvious to me and its like your on the road, just keep gojng, doing what your doing with your open mind.

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