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Would appreciate ESH on sticking with boundaries in unclear situations, or choosing to overlook boundaries due to lack of certainty.
The next to last time my AH fell off the wagon, I told him I would not stay in the house with him if he drank again, because he turns into a mean drunk to me. My AH's priest also told him that if he kept drinking, he would lose his family. Well, he did drink again. The night before my birthday. And was rather awful to me, in front of our young kids, at my "birthday celebration dinner" (ha). The next day we went together to meet with his priest. Contrite, he admitted what he had done. The priest said in this case, I was in the right, the decisions were in my hands, and I would be justified in leaving. Then he said, "I'm going to ask you to stay and try to nurture your family a little while longer." I was prepared to leave that day, but caved in to the priest's request...it was so stressful with my AH just sitting there waiting to hear what I would say. I should have Even while regretting it, because I don't feel like I have had the chance to recover, decompress. Mainly because my AH regularly gives me guilt trips for not wanting to be physical with him. I am trying to detach; we sleep in separate rooms, and he is mad about it. We met with our new counselor yesterday, and she explained to him how I need time to heal, before I can feel trust and intimacy again.
So, I think he was drinking the night before we met with her, and again tonight. He didn't get to the point of being mean, just very annoying. Our nine year old said, "I think Dad is drunk again." I had no proof, and if I had asked, he would have strenuously denied it.
My dilemma is twofold. If I have set a boundary that I will leave if he drinks again, and I can't prove it, and it's not to the point of meanness, what do I do? The other part of it is that my fight/flight adrenal system is just shot. Even though he wasn't mean tonight, I was sooo on edge just waiting for what comes next. I dropped something in the kitchen that made an explosive sound as it hit the floor, and I screamed and started crying. Even though it has been 8-9 weeks since the last episode, the minute I felt like he had been drinking, it felt like it was just yesterday in terms of how my body reacted.
I am thankful for all the wisdom here. I lurk a lot, and learn a lot, and hope some day to have some wisdom of my own to share.
I'm sorry your husband is struggling - I know that mine had several goes at giving up drink as well.
What really matters to me here is your recovery, and to my mind that does not depend on anybody else's actions or opinions - it is your turn to seek what you need to restore your spirit and joy for life.
I have a counsellor who often urged me to stay with AH at times when I was inclined to leave. It disturbs me that she might give this advice to others because in my experience it was unhelpful to me and also to our marriage. I know that I was healthier four years ago and less inclined to become depressed - despite the fact that our life was raw and very difficult at the time. Putting the preservation of my marriage above the preservation of my own mental well being has been, for me, a sell-out. I try not to do that any more. So please excuse me for being irritated with your priest - I believe that his roll is mentioned in the Merry-go-round Called Denial! That said, it was always my choice to stay so I know in my heart that I made that mistake - and it takes an effort not to beat myself up about that - and we all know how pointless that is!!
Whatever boundaries or rules you have set are yours and can be rewritten if your point of views or needs change IMHO. No one can live on tenterhooks indefinitely without it taking a toll on our nerves. It sounds as if you are seeing that in yourself. So regardless of what your husband says, or what your advisors say, what does the lovely heart of Oceanpine need right now? It doesn't have to be huge life changing things if that is too daunting, but when we get to the end of our tether we do need a bit of spoiling and self-care. I chose to forget about my husband, even though he lived in the same house as me, and I do whatever gives me pleasure, pride, or rest.
PS I love it when you post, you have lots of wisdom
it sounds like you are in the thick of alcoholism. Which you are. If you know he's drinking,why do you need proof? If you had it,he'd have an excuse. For me I find meetings are an antidote to alcoholism and its poison. With out a community of understanding,id only have alcoholisms' version of reality. And that reality is crazy making. In terms of leaving your marriage you will know when its time to leave, no one could stop you. Its ok. Recovery is a process. A boundary we can not follow through with is a threat and they don't work. Its incredibly hard I find to be married to an a and have boundaries. They break them over a d over,or try to wiggle them. Over time, with my own recovery I find this annoying,disrespectful and not what I want,need or deserve in any relationship. Coming to understand this about myself,is leading me to an ending. I have transferred my trust from someone very ill and persuasive to something subtle yet powerful feeling, the hp of my understanding. I thought recovery would have to come after I left him. But its working through my life now. Just hope you think of you as hard as that is at times. I'm in the midst of it too. Progress not perfection...take what you want,leave the rest, be gentle with yourself. Also edit,sorry about your birthday dinner. That's a thing I've experienced a lot and it bites. But happy belated birthday to you oceanpine. (())
-- Edited by aquamom23 on Thursday 27th of November 2014 05:39:29 AM
Aloha Ocean...what I learned in Al-Anon was keep it simple and say what I mean, mean what I say and exercise the courage to change the things I can. Trust God and Do it...whatever "it" is. Turn the results over to the next 24 hours or more. Al-Anon philosophy and practice of principles are sooooo much more different than the way I use to think and do which never came out to the successes I have today. My family priest didn't have a clue about the disease and mostly was trained in moral issues. Alcoholism isn't a moral issue...it is a disease. Use the meeting rooms and the literature and a sponsor and most of all a Power Greater than Oceanpine and her alcoholic. Keep coming back...In support (((((hugs)))))
Oceanpine I agree with all that has been said. Alanon Philosophy and principles also suggest that we make no major life changes until we have been in program for at least 6 months to a year. This is so we can have the time to develop new constructive tools to live by and learn not to react but to respond.
I could so identify with the" dish dropping" scenario and the startle response that you described. With this program I stopped reacting in such a fight or flight fashion and learned to say what I mean, mean what I say and did not say it mean.
Remember alcoholism is a chronic, progressive, fatal disease that can be arrested but never cured. Living with the disease, we too become infected and require a program of recovery regardless of the fact if we are sill living with the alcoholic or not. Alanon is that program
Keep coming back there is hope
Oceanpine, if he is really an alcoholic and not in recovery, it will be obvious when he is really drunk again. They can try and cut down for a periods of time but there will always be an obvious incident if they are still drinking. I'm saying this not to make you sad or worry but so you can focus on you and not worry "is he drinking? Is he drinking? Can I prove it?" More than likely it will become obvious again and if not, then great. You don't have to worry about it so much.
Now what to do if and when it does become obvious again? That is where your alanon meetings and sponsor will come into play. You will make the choices that are spiritually driven and okay for you when the time is right. You don't need a priest who does not specialize or have knowledge of addiction to tell you what to do.
I know drinking is at the root of it, but it sounds to me that the boundary that is really one that you do not want crossed is him being verbally abusive to you (and that is pretty much always accompanied by being drunk I realize)...but also only saying this so you can stop worrying if your boundary got crossed the last times you suspect drinking. Boundaries are such that you generally know when they've been crossed. If you have to wonder than it wasn't really crossed and you don't "have" to do anything.
So...for today...just enjoy your day and don't live in fear. You don't need to play detective or worry yourself sick. If a future binge occurs and if boundaries are clearly broken, you will deal with it then using support from alanon.
In my experience, whether it is a priest or any other counselor providing counsel in alcohol infested situations, they are sorely lacking. I have seen many and worked with many. The only one that knew my experience was an addiction counselor. I began my recovery with her and al anon. Blessings....
I have found growth and the life I enjoy when I ditched the professionals and embraced Al-Anon. It's hard work with tremendous rewards. I am so much happier than I was. Taking what I like and leaving the rest is profound for me.
Hi oceanpine. Please know this is just my opinion. I do not believe anyone(this includes priests and clergymen) has the right to cause you to feel you should break your boundaries. Nor should anyone make you feel guilty if you choose to stand your ground with your boundaries. Your nerves are frayed. This is what alcoholism does to family members. Please get to your Al-Anon meetings as much as possible. Focus on you.
Take care of you and be gentle with yourself.
Keep coming back, because the program (Al-Anon) works if you work it.
__________________
Look for the rainbow after the storm, and I'm sending you a double dose of HOPE. H-hold O-on P-pain E-ends
Thanks everyone. So much wisdom and compassion here.
One of the confusing things about this particular story is that the priest was formerly an addictions counselor in NYC - he worked with many addicts. So much of what he has shared with me is helpful and rings true... but, he did not seem to grasp the impact that feeling fear in my home has had on me. And, I think he made a mistake by asking me to ignore my boundary, and I made a mistake by agreeing. My back was against the wall and I couldn't think straight. Today I would do it differently.
I am trying to keep Al-Anon front and center, but it is so hard. There is only one meeting a week in my rural area. Ironically the night it takes place has so many conflicts, such as school events. And my AH's AA meeting is right after it, back to back, which is hard on the family situation for both parents to be gone on a school night. Often I have been too weary to go.
The online meetings are at times that don't work with my family - breakfast/school prep and dinner time. I did try a phone-in meeting once... I think there are some during the day, which works better. I am trying to encourage the start-up of a second local meeting. I do read as much as I can, and reading here is helpful!
Milkwood, thank you for sharing your experience. One thing I wonder - you, and others, have said you have worked to detach while at home, and do your own thing.
[you said: I chose to forget about my husband, even though he lived in the same house as me, and I do whatever gives me pleasure, pride, or rest.]
It seems like a lot of the A's don't really want to engage, or show warmth to their partner, making it easier [? probably not the right word] to coexist in the same house. But my AH is the one who wants to be affectionate and close. I am backing away as far as I can go, since I did not leave. I keep telling him the only way I can find my way back to him is in my own time, after I have healed and decompressed. Not while I am still screaming in fright every time a door slams or dish drops. He cannot honor that though - every few weeks I become "the coldest woman in the world" etc etc, and sometimes it goes as far as becoming his reason to drink again. What a vicious cycle, er merry go round, it is.
Any tips or suggestions for coexisting with someone who keeps pressuring you for more than you can give, and judging you for your failure to do so? Does this happen often in A marriages? IT seems more often the A can't give anything. I feel like our situation is reversed. He is working hard, wanting to be affectionate, doing lots for me and I am a burnt out shell of a person. That said, I feel he is focusing on me rather than himself, but he does not see that.
My experience with As has been that the more I give, the more my As want. In trying to fill their emptiness, something only a HP can do, the more empty I became. Meetings, readings, working the steps with a good sponsor made all the difference for me. I am not anybody's HP and I can't fill up their emptiness. I can detach, focus on myself, and do what fills me up according to Al-Anon principles. As human beings, it is our responsibility to do what helps us thrive as adults. It is not our responsibility to do for others what is their responsibility to do for themselves.
Oceanpine, communication is key to resolving any conflict. I do not know how much you and your AH are able to have genuine communication at this point, but if you are, that would help. Ideally, you might communicate and then both people understand where each other is coming from. He is needy from being in early sobriety (or not - but trying to be), and you are still reeling with PTSD symptoms (if not actually PTSD) from the trauma of living with his active addiction.
When a person stops drinking, they have little to no ability make themselves happy. They have often drank away all their coping skills. They are incredibly needy and will look for others to make them feel good like the alcohol once did. It takes several years in recovery for an alcoholic to learn to think differently and be at peace. Their desire to fill the void where drinking was will be replaced by constantly wanting encouragement, affection, sex or with smoking, eating, gambling...It takes some time to replace the compulsions with different thinking and behavior.
For you, it's going to take being left alone and a period of observing him as a sober person who is no longer an unpredictable drunk but a person who is capable of consistently respecting your boundaries. It's going to take time if this is going to work out.
If you guys can talk about it in a calm fashion and get on the same page -great. Otherwise you are asking something that often gets asked about here which is "How can I influence someone else's behavior and/or express my emotions to a person in a way they will understand without really talking about it in an upfront manner?" The answer to that is always going to be "you can't" If your communication is shot then you are going to have problems in the marriage. Period.
