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Post Info TOPIC: is he going to speed up his death??? is this REAL??? either way, step one, here I come!!!


~*Service Worker*~

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is he going to speed up his death??? is this REAL??? either way, step one, here I come!!!


Called my A brother yesterday....I had a "feeling" when he called me and left VM...

So I call him and he says "haaay sissy, glad you called me back" and the convo seemed to go "ok" for a while...and then the bombshell..

Rewind just for a bit: Don't know  if i told you a month ago, he got robbed..ALL his work tools GONE!!! he got drunk......while drinking , his truck is in his friends gated yard, UNlocked with ALL his tools in it......some thieves must have been spotting the yard, or just saw all these tools one day, and one night, they spent about 4 hrs. cleaning him out....He made the discovery the next day....It took me a WEEK to get him off blaming his God and the rage I saw in him...the absolute brokeness and  rage in this spirit who always saw the good in the most horrible of situations...Hes broken..Devastated..Like something inside of him just broke.... This "i am defeated" stance he took......It was a nightmare, listening to him rant and then cry, then rant and then "I am out of business now"   it was heart rending...I didn't know what to do but to just LISTEN

fast forward, he gets invited to go on a sea trial with one of his clients  (he is marine electronic engineer)  and so I am grateful he is going out to sea, and away from this......Maybe he will come back with some perspective and a plan B to execute to recoup his life....

this past week, he comes back and hes seemingly calmer, accepting what happened and yea, tools that were taken, he can't do a lot of his job..Can't do MOST of his job......its true...some of the equip. and tools they took not only cost a small fortune, but it "neutered" him re: doing the work required to stay in business...I asked him "any clues or news on the robbery???"  he says "no"  his SS# is on all the tools, but thieves can sell that stuff to a shady business who doesn't care and yea, it seems no hope for recovering his stuff....flyers with reward were put out, and no tips....

Anyway, my stance in all this has been just to listen..even if he tells me he was drunk and is drinking more, I just listen......I am sooo sad for him, but there is nothing I can do, so I sit and listen...

So yesterday we are talking and hes telling me of the "liquidation" sale he is gonna have on his inventory in his storage shed....one of those parks where you pay so much per month to store your stuff.....( i am wondering why did he not put his tools in there, but again...i am just in listen mode)  so he told me yesterday he is going to have a liquidation sale and he wants to get rid of his stuff...I am thinking  "ok, are you gonna get enough to just retire on???  with the sale of his boat and inventory, he might be able to hang out at friends houses and just , if he is careful, just live off his inventory and boat proceeds...

His reply to me was  "well i don't want oldest sibling to get my money and my stuff....I want to provide for you and Cliff and Scott"  I am listening and I am thinking  "whaaaat is he saying"  so I listen, again ,and i ask him  "hey maybe you and Cliff can take a trip together , hang out like you guys used to do"  He kinda says "yea" then hes back on how adamant he is about oldest siblings will get NONE of his stuff...He will make sure of that...

Upon my suggestion that he and Cliff go off somewhere and do some "guy stuff--guy bonding fun stuff"  tells me that Cliff can use his share for whatever he wants to do, but  "if i do myself in, i want to make sure you get your share" 

So now its out...he said it....  "do myself in"   At first, my reaction was "oh here comes the alcoholic BS to get attention...the old pity me b/c i am gonna do me in"  but he was NOT depressed sounding. , He was talking w/clarity...He was kinda like "organized" about all this and he says very clearly,  "I don't want ANY of our siblings to get ANY of my proceeds---Just YOU first , then Cliff, then Scott, in that order"

I didn't know how to respond...I just told him that I was here to talk if /when he wants to talk...I asked him who was with him and he said his friend was there w/him (forgot who)  I think it was Cliff......but anyway, he was almost like CALM....and hes talking about cleaning up his stuff BEFORE he "does him self in"......and he repeatedly says that his business is "no more"....and "they ruined my life" (thieves)....

There is a part of me who wants to say that this is "BS" and usually they don't talk about it if its real....Then there is a part of me who realizes that he is bc of this robbery essentially unable to do his job, no tools, no diagnostic equip, no specialized equip. to do his job, so yea, he is out of business.....he told me that "M marine is officially out of business"

I've just had to turn this over....i know Cliff and Scott , I am gonna speak with both of them about this....First, I have had to "wrap my head around" the possibility that this could be depression talk OR the real thing....

He sounded so clear and focused on "liquidating his stuff"....that part kind of worries me....I have heard "suicide" talk from alcoholics all my life and so far, none of them ever carried it out....but there always is this little chance this could be real.....

Either way, I am totally powerless.....I will speak to his buddies about this...warn them of what he said to me....Cliff HAD to have heard him on the phone w/me, but maybe he didn't...I don't know.....I am 1700 miles away...What the hell am I supposed to do with this???? 

I don't want to lose him, but with his progressive drinking and refusal to get help, many times I have asked creator to just take him home if he won't get help...better than the slow death he is doing now......a brilliant and wonderful mind..A sweet soul....A good guy whose life is going to hell via 80 proof vodka.....

I just had to get this out in the open....I will make  a few calls today...I'm sick w/a cold so late getting up today, but I am going to make a few calls to "heads up"  that this MAY be coming at us in the near future.....This is SO sad.....Those thieves ruined his business and hopefully NOT his reason to want to be here in life.....

I hope this post made sense....he was just so clear...not weepy...not cursing, raging, crazy mad as last month...not , i mean he was VERY lucid and CALM about this bombshell he dropped on me....OH..I did mention to him  that maybe now hes retired, he can visit family and friends he hasn't seen,  trying to get him to think about something positive.....Last month he sounded so broken and defeated....He even told me  (and this was so sad b/c he absolutely was in love with his higher power)  but he told me this robbery, this life devastating event even messed up his relationship w/his God....I remember his saying that......I never ever thought I would hear that...I am the doubting Thomas...NEVER, before this, was HE.....I tried to explain that this is a result of man's choice and freewill over which HP respects all our boundaries in that we are free to choose.....HP had NOTHING to do w/this robbery.....I think "R" sorta agreed w/me but nevertheless, this even , I see changes in him...I see changes that I don't like.........

thanks for letting me get this out....so what is worse??  a slow death with increased drinking b/c there is no work???  OR a quicker "self exit" off this planet???    Which scenario???   He is the only sibling I have left as far as a close relationship with...The others I totally separated myself from.......I talked w/creator since last night when he said this to me  to "do what you gotta do w/him...help him b/c I can't and he won't....Thank you"   and I finally fell asleep this am at 3am.....

 

 



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

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When someone is calm and giving things away - that is a big red flag for suicide. The fact that he is reaching out to you may be a cry for help before he acts or simply his goodbye and how he wants things to be distributed. I think I'd call the police or the suicide prevention line for help for him.  He's not in his right mind - not with all the drinking he's done.  Perhaps a welfare check will result in him getting the help he needs?  It is my understanding that crisis interventionists in some areas will call the police themselves for the caller.  Insurance would help him recover some of the costs for the tools if he has it and I would assume he would with his business?  His Social Security # on his tools requires a call to the police to report the theft if he hasn't done that and a call to the Credit Companies and maybe his bank and any other debtors he might have to report the theft and put a fraud hold on his credit.  He isn't thinking correctly and a little information might help him regain some power within?  He is seeing all to be a total loss and actually it can be a bump in the road to a new life? 



-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 17th of November 2014 04:34:34 PM



-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 17th of November 2014 04:35:29 PM



-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 17th of November 2014 04:54:30 PM



-- Edited by grateful2be on Monday 17th of November 2014 04:57:58 PM

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



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If you call a suidcid3 hot line number, (I dont know the number, but there certainly is one), I would think someone there could give you advice

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~*Service Worker*~

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This is a red flag for certain.  Even if the A's are just trying to manipulate us by talking about suicide, I think it always calls for a visit/welfare check from the professionals.  If they are serious, they need it for sure.  If they are not serious, they will then understand that we take them seriously and that they shouldn't play around with serious threats.  But my guess is that here your brother is serious.  He doesn't see any way out.  But that's nonsense.  It sounds to me as if he didn't secure his tools because he was drunk, and now he's hit bottom.  And rather than give up alcohol and use this as a real opportunity to get recovery and turn his life around, he's going straight to despair and hopelessness.  I know someone in very much the same situation (not too many resources) who had the tools of his livelihood stolen.  It was awful.  But did he kill himself?  No way.  He worked his way out of the mess.  There is hope for your brother.  Maybe this could be a real turnaround for him.  But for both his and your sakes, I hope you will call the professionals.  And I would very seriously consider calling your brother and saying, "You are talking about killing yourself.  I am asking you not to do it.  It seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, but there is.  Hold off and get help."  It is ultimately his decision, but you want to do what you can.



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There is something called "Baker Act" (I think that is name), meaning if you believe a person intends to harm himself, you can call police and he will be placed in a mental health facility/hospital for an evaluation.

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~*Service Worker*~

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I too would be concerned Neshema Calling a suicide pervention hotline would be my go to response. Prayers for you and your brother.

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud


~*Service Worker*~

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Thats hard neshema, I hope you can get in touch with the right people.

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PP


~*Service Worker*~

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Oh wow, Neshema, what feelings of helplessness.  I will keep you all in my prayers. Please keep in touch.



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Paula



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I just called Scott...he said "R" is coming off a bender, he was gone for a week, drunk, and Scott said that the "liquidating"  issue is b/c he and Cliff are telling "R"  to "hey lets clean up and get rid of some crap, sell it, start over, etc"  and so THAT is why Cliff was at the storage place w/ "R"..they were going over what R can sell to get on his feet

as to tools??? yea, they are gone, but Scott has a garage full of them that R can use any ole time and its like R is in "poor me--victim" mode, recycling from depression, then hes up, then hes down, depending on how long hes been sober,  so i feel SOME better

I told Scott PLEASE turn him in...report him if you even THINK he is headed in suicide direction and he said he and Cliff already talked about it, Scott was sick so he didn't call me but was glad I called him.....he was gonna tell me but he wanted it to be a story past tense, not R laying this on me while they are in progress of stream lining R's stuff....he has over 300 pairs of Jeans for example....very attached to his possessions and Scott and Cliff are saying  "hey lets have a garage sale, get rid of a lot of this crap, and just start over"    so the robbery did NOT put him out of business in that A--he has a lot of his own tools, still in storage....B--what he doesn't have Cliff and Scott do have.....

I am sooo grateful that I called Scott....I didn't even know how to approach this, but Scott said that he was concerned and he and Cliff are going to keep an eye on him and he PROMISED me that if R looks to be a danger to himself, he will report it b/c he really loves his friend....I could tell....I can't see but those two can.....R is cycling from depression to feeling focused and ready to get on with life, depending on how much alcohol hes had and when......

So I guess the bottom line is those guys are gonna watch him, keep an eye on him, get him jobs to get him out to sea where he CANT drink and at least I know that his pals are aware,  I told Scott he said it to me, b/c  "what am i supposed to do w/this???"  i hear him say that, he sounds lucid, but Scott clarified some of it for me.......he is calling Cliff as i type this to tell C what I said and "whats up with R???" 

At least he has a place to go for T/Giving..Scott is having him over....but i agreed w/Scott...R is paying so much storage rent on CRAP he doesn't need....I am a fashion hound,  always wanting to be sharply dressed, but I don't own 300 plus pairs of Jeans.....I told Scott how R and I were into clothes, big time, but ya know?? being loved, to me, is more important....yea, i go to the high class thrift shops b/c I love cute stuff to wear, but I keep it managable, #1, and #2, I pay my bills first...and i set boundaries on how MUCH i will spend.....I have to....retail therapy is a instant gratitude "high" that feels good for a while, but  you still have to "come down"  and your in the same situation....I told Scott if I didn't have my program, I would be a mess....

He said R was forced b/c of the DUI to go to AA and he began to really take responsibility for his drinking, he SAID at AA that he was a "F*** up" and hes drinking, hes an alcoholic, that hes harming those he loves,  but he isn't in AA now......soon as he got his license back,  GONE was the AA...I told Scott I won't enable him, I won't hold him over the abyss he creates for himself....if he falls hard enough, i keep hoping he will be forced into AA....Scott said that the only money hes given R was to help him get home after that debacle in CA where he was driving a truck and something happened in AZ, re: the truck and owner who is an alcoholic sends R to CA in this truck that was not legal, somehow, and R has to go back to AZ to pay a fine??  I didn't understand the whole thing................phone ringing.....it is "R"...........gonna leave this post open till i get off phone w/him.....

PART TWO of this post-----------

Well, i am back after talking to R....he apologized and someone DID turn him into cops...hes at the shop, and police show up..they surround him and they TALK...Police tell him about they were informed he may commit suicide....some good soul turned him in, so R told me he confessed to the police what happened, how depressed he was but he isn't ready to die YET.........he (R) is telling me this after the cops leave him...so now they know,  now he will be watched and ya know??  he is telling me on the phone that he , yes, is in bad shape,  he said it was his doing, his fault and he asked me to just give him love and support and he promised me he wants to snap out of this....i told him i would always listen to him....i would always care for him,  but the guys are gonna call the cops , like this other person did if he pulls this again.....I also told him that its all out in the open now...He says he wants to "do him self in"  and that is nothing we are gonna play with.....I can tell hes detoxing and now all contrite, the cycle of all this....at least this time he admitted to me that he has a HUGE problem...he said he is "ok" now, and i am thinking  "yea, till u get plastered again" but I kept my mouth shut....no use trying to talk sense into an active alcoholic, however i did set a boundary and I NOW know how to get ahold of the police and if he goes MIA w/out letting someone know hes going MIA, i am calling the police.....

I feel some better b/c 2 pairs of eyes,  Scott and Cliff, and NOW the cops are gonna be lookin at him....he is well known in the area for his good work and even the police knew who he was...they told him they understood how badly he could feel, getting ripped off, but there were people who cared about him and that suicide is a selfish act that only hurts the ones he leaves behind.....so yea, R did at least call me and share this with me...

I am now gonna turn this over to creator.....R was shocked I went to Scott about it and i told R that I went to Scott thinking we needed to get him picked up for observation re: this threat , I would love to know who called the cops on him....someone at the shop who knows him and over heard the threat....maybe when he was on phone w/me..or he said it again...but now the police know....

 I am sick w/a cold and NOW gonna go take care of me.......WHAT a night and WHAT a day....but i feel better putting it on the board so i could "process" it and then did the phone call  and  then, just now, talked w/him....We ended the call on a kind of positive note...He told me that he never ever wanted me to endure anymore pain and I told him that I , thanks to alanon, will NOT absorb his karma and his problems, that I will love him but with boundaries....I also said to him  if i can drag my sick ass into alanon, and change MY life,  he can drag HIS sick ass into AA and help HIS life......Its his choice....I can't , noone can, but him, do his life for him......

so yea, i can practice detachment and I really think i do a decent job at it, but i am not gonna sit here and tell you guys, it does not affect me in any way....it does...I am human...I have feelings....my last of my siblings is in trouble...and I am powerless...I can call his friends..call the cops, etc., but if he really is set on doing this, he will find a way, no matter what we do...Thats fact...I know it...I accept it...so Serenity prayer, I will use.....but the good news is I have program to turn to and i can, after i work through the emotions, I CAN work through this and level myself out.......

thanks to all of you for being here with me....appreciate it...



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

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Maybe he'll commit suicide and maybe not? I knew a woman who tried to commit suicide three different times when I met her. The ways she chose were horrible and she didn't die. She was describing all the ways in great detail she had tried to do herself in. She was furious because she was still alive and told me when she was released from wherever she was staying at the time, she was going to do it again. I laughed. I couldn't help it. I said to her: "You may want to die but it appears to me that that desire of yours keeps getting thwarted. Perhaps Someone greater than you has another idea on when your life is to end?" She did try to kill herself one more time - jumped out a heavy plate glass window. She tore herself up in awful ways. She was hospitalized and then went to live with her sister. As far as I know, her last attempt at suicide failed although painfully for her and she went on to live her life differently.

I am glad he has other eyes upon him and that he is feeling a little better and things aren't as bad as he first said. Good you knew to contact others who knew more of his story to fill in some of the blanks for you, too.

Sorry you have a bad cold and hope that will be short-lived for you!

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



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grateful2be wrote:

 She did try to kill herself one more time - jumped out a heavy plate glass window. She tore herself up in awful ways. She was hospitalized and then went to live with her sister. As far as I know, her last attempt at suicide failed although painfully for her and she went on to live her life differently.

I am glad he has other eyes upon him and that he is feeling a little better and things aren't as bad as he first said. Good you knew to contact others who knew more of his story to fill in some of the blanks for you, too.

Sorry you have a bad cold and hope that will be short-lived for you!


 hey (((((((((((((((G))))))))))))))))  i had to laugh at your story about the lady...sounds like HP don't want her YET, LOL....I shouldn't laugh but right now i am afflicted w/gallows humour....my sponsor just called me, she sensed i needed her, and we talked....she told me i was doing very well with this and that yea, do what you can---give HP the rest which is EXACTLY what i am doing........sponsor and i have a 6th sense about each other...I was thinking of her today not just bc i needed support /esh but bc i love her dearly and she just started this new business and low and behold she calls me, sees my email to her and she is wanting to know if i am "ok"   i told her i posted about it on this board and kinda "wrapped my head around it"  by just getting it OUT in teh OPEN and she was relieved that I am practicing my alanon training...........then she tells me that she had to give up her old car that she shared w/ hubby #3, the love of her life, who passed in '08.....she got a new mustang convertible......i told her to "join the new car club"  and she says to me , yea, with business, and replacing my car, its scary, but this is step 3 fodder, LOL.......i feel like dung with this cold coming on...got some nyquil sleep kind and will down a capful of that at bedtime and should at least get some sleep.....gotta work tomorrow...no getting around it.......so thanks for the well wishes about cold................your story about this lady was funny...........i guess if it isn't meant to be it just ISN"T................poor thing, hurting herself like that,  I hope she got some help for her probs.......geeez i would hate to be one of her kids or her sister or something...........talk about major detachment when you do all you can do,  like me...I have done all i can for now........I am doing STEP THREE as we speak



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

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I used to work as a Hotline Crisis Interventionist in my 20s.  Most of the time, the people I talked with were angry because other people weren't acting the way they wanted them to behave - although that really wasn't always the reason.  I never laughed then because they were serious and yet I could hear the anger, the self-pity, the need to seek revenge on others in a way they believed "would show them."  When they knew they were heard, most decided they could find another way to work through their feelings.  In this gal's case, she was so hell bent on destroying herself and her anger came by the time I met her from sheer fury because she wasn't even getting her way in revenging herself on others.  I could see grace at work in her life and intuitively I knew she would do what she was saying she was going to do and she wasn't going to succeed this time either.  For all I know, she got a job talking people off ledges.  She got it in a way I'm glad I've never experienced.

I'm glad you have a good recovery mate, good sense on how to take good care of yourself, and.......drum roll........fashion sense!  I always grin when you detail for us the cute things you've found and worn.  I love how you love doing that!!!!!!  Sleep well, sister.



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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig

PP


~*Service Worker*~

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You were so clear with your brother.  He was told you love him but won't be travelling to hades with him.  Of course it hurts to have him hurting, of course.  He is one lucky man to have such caring friends and you.  Take care of you and feel better.



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Paula



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Thanks for the update Neshema Prayers and positive thoughts all around .

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Betty

THE HIGHEST FORM OF WISDOM IS KINDNESS

Talmud
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