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Post Info TOPIC: Thrown for a loop


Veteran Member

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Thrown for a loop


Just as I feel I am making progress towards a new life, I get smacked with a rock in the road.  This one is a boulder.  My AH and I have lived apart for over 14 months.  Up until now, my mind has been pretty clear on my path.  My HP has been great at keeping me on track.  

I began the divorce process last month but, due to my attorney changing firms, things have been in limbo for several weeks.  I do not have papers to sign yet.  I have used this time as a gift to get my affairs in order as best as I can.  I felt good (well as good as one can about undoing a 22 year relationship) about my choices and stayed focused on taking care of me.  AH has been checked out from me and the kids for a long time.  We have very little interaction and what little there is revolves around the kids.  

He asked me to have lunch last week to talk about us.  He still fully believes that there is an "us".  I was planning to gently break the news to him, but being careful due to his tendency to explode.  The first topic was that I am not wearing my wedding rings anymore.  I told him that they are off because that is where I am at.  He has not had a single interest in me or my life for the better part of a year.  He has not showed one sign of changing anything in his life.  Then it happened.  He began to talk about all the horrible things he's done, how much he has hurt me and how sorry he is for what he has put us through.  He said he is working really hard on changing. He said he wants to work on fixing things.   This is the first time I have EVER heard these things come out of his mouth.

I did not expect this from him.  I actually didn't give much thought to what he would say since most of what comes out of his mouth has been a lie.  But for some reason I believed what he was saying this time.  Something was different.  I told him that for there to ever be an us again, we would need to start at square one-begin communicating and rebuild the trust.  He said he wants to work on this.  I left lunch confused and feeling like I really screwed up.  

In my heart, I would like nothing better than to fix our problems and save our family and live a happy long life together.  But my head says different.  I truly don't know that he will ever be able to meet my most basic needs.  Sober or not (his status is still unknown to me).  I don't know that I have the energy to start this uphill battle.  

These thoughts get me down.  Am I being selfish and taking the easy way out by walking away?  Will I regret this choice for the rest of my life?  Will my kids be worse off because of my choice?  I am so confused, conflicted and generally feeling like a failure.  I am trying to put it in my HP's hands and stay in the moment but it is making me sick to my stomach.  I am getting such mixed signals...a nasty text from him the night after our lunch acusing me of stepping out on our marriage and then a phone call apologizing for his slip and that he is working on not reacting badly.  I am trying to stay focused on the facts but it is so hard.  I am floundering and a mess.  

I would greatly appreciate any stories from those of you who have been in this place too. Thanks for listening.

 



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~*Service Worker*~

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Bless your heart---

I don't have a story. Just a "take." Mine would be to pay very little attention to what he says. To remind myself that what he does is what counts. Slapping you with a nasty text the next thing is a "doing," for example.

Temple

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It's easy to be graceful until someone steals your cornbread.  --Gray Charles

 



~*Service Worker*~

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I can relate so much to what you have shared. My ex did this too, he said he was sorry and he would change and all the rest of it and it was the first time I had heard him say these things too. I learned that yes he did mean it at the time in the moment but he had no recovery so I knew that he wanted me based on the unhealthy thinker he was, he had no idea about why he wanted me, even who I really am or how he would go about making changes, he hadnt began his own journey of recovery like I had. He just didnt want to feel miserable and he associated me the same way as alcohol, as being a relief to his unhappiness. I was born for other reasons than his, i have a right to a life that is happy. Being in recovery meant I got some self worth and an active drinker or even dry drunk is not good enough for me or my family.

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Veteran Member

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El-cee-that is where my struggle lies. What if he truly IS starting a good recovery? What if he just needs more time?

I feel that my time is moving forward right now and he may be on a different clock. Should I switch my clock or just let it run it's course?!?!?!? Oh this hurts so much. I wish my HP would reveal the path I should be on. It is so unclear to me.


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~*Service Worker*~

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I like the phrase, when in doubt, do nothing. I was faced with a question of whether to come to "his" aid and that phrase filled my mind, I left it alone and he resolved it without me. You have the gift of time, there is nothing wrong with thinking of things as multi-pathed. Working towards divorce while letting him show you what he's really doing. As El-cee says, actions not words - and, as one person said to me in my struggles, you can always get married again.

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I am strong in the broken places. ~ Unknown All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another! ~ Anatole France


~*Service Worker*~

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In my experience with my ex its not difficult to see recovery progress. My ex goes to meetings, he has a sponsor, hes learning the program. Hes sober. Its not invisible and neither is his disease. Maybe its more about what you want rather than anything he tells you. It might be that you meed some more time to work out what you want. Thats fine but he will show you where he really is regardless of anything he says. Even if he gets recovery there is no guarantee that the beahbiours that made you leave bim will disappear. I would be really careful you dont fall into denial, imagining it will all be different this time, why would it be? Whats really changed?

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~*Service Worker*~

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talks cheap. You said he has not been in your life. has he asked if you have food or need anything?

Hey he is desperate, this is when their fine manipulation comes to play. they don't want to be in that pit alone. Of course he is saying what you want to hear.

I have seen this hundreds of times in my years here, not once did it work. not once.

I decided knowing that even if they go on program, live it, relapse is part of being an A I cannot go there again. no thank you.

Liars are liars, cheaters are cheaters. OH mommy I have been a bad boy, I promise to be better, please can I be off grounding? See the similarities? And of course they do it again.

I don't believe in second chances in much of anything. When I worked with kids at risk, probably mostly A's in the future i learned 2nd chances never work. never. also if they are kicking a table, clicking something, whatever to get attention and make ya nuts...I tell them to knock it off you turkey or you will be up here writing sentences..I learned to know they almost have to do it once or twice more then they stop. weird eh.

Hugs honey. it is all up to you. I see you progressing and heading for a better life. IF he wants a relationship with the kids that is totally up to him, hows it going so far?

hugs, debilyn



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Putting HP first, always  <(*@*)>

"It's not so much being loved for ourselves, but more for being loved in spite of ourselves."

       http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/meetings/meeting.html            Or call: 1-888-4alanon



~*Service Worker*~

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What El-cee says really resonates with my experience.  When we get serious and start moving ahead, they pull out the big guns to get us back.  They may even mean it, who knows?  But what will get them into recovery is not good intentions, but solid hard work in a formal program of recovery, over a long period of time. 

Many alcoholics declare they've realized the error of their ways and they're going to stop drinking.  A certain small percentage of those start on a formal program of recovery.  A certain small percentage of those who start on a formal program of recovery stick with it longterm.  The statistics suggest that it's 15-25% of those who start recovery programs who make it through to longterm sobriety.  I don't know whether your A has started or merely said that he's going to start (or that he's going to recover on his own because he thinks he can do it himself - I imagine we have all been through those disappointing episodes).

Let's say he does get into a formal program of recovery and sticks with it.  Of course that would be a wonderful thing.  But the road to recovery is very rocky and emotional.  People are advised not to enter upon relationships in that initial year (and it sounds as if your "starting fresh" would be almost like making a new relationship), because it adds difficulty to an already rocky time.  Many, many people relapse.  The others have emotions all over the map.  The second year can be calmer but they're still not like a fully functioning person who has everything to bring to a relationship.

If I were going to get involved with an alcoholic in recovery, I personally would wait until he had five years of solid recovery.  But actually, in my own life I've been close to someone who had 15+ years, and who had a bad relapse and never recovered from it.  Devastating.  Many people do stay sober for the rest of their lives.  But the risks are always higher than with a non-alcoholic.

But here's the thing.  You don't have to forecase whether he's going to make it into recovery or longterm sobriety.  Time will tell, very surely.  You can wait and see how he walks the talk.  You can divorce now and remarry in five years - many people have done it.  You can divorce now and gradually start to be involved again in five years.  You can divorce next year and become reinvolved in ten years.  There are infinite possibilities.  You don't have to decide right now for the rest of time.  You only have to do what is right, right now, for the situation as it is right now.  And here's the other thing: to try to convince you to make promises for the future, when his recovery is so uncertain (and it is uncertain, however much he may promise) is alcoholic behavior.  It is the mark of an unrecovered person.  It shows what a preliminary, unrecovered state he's in.  Someone with real recovery would know you need time to see how his recovery is going, and would not push you, but show you over time.

Alcoholics also try things on to see how far they can go.  One thing he's watching is: "If I say X and Y, will she believe me and I can get her back and carry on with business as usual?"  In other words, are there no real consequences to his drinking?  But the real consequences are that loved ones suffer and have to get distance for their own protection.  It may be risky to let him believe that those consequences are not true.

Take good care of yourself.



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I believe that restoring trust/repairing relationships is done by repeated positive actions sustained over a period time.

Trust = actions x time

My AH told me lots of words. None of this mattered, and much of it was just that - words- until he eventually took actual actions to change. Actions like: not driving to the liquor store, ordering soda at restaurants, drinking a 12 pack of diet coke a day, eating 3 lbs of candy a day to stay away from the alcohol (not that healthy, but it was an action!)

Also, google the cycle of abuse. Toxic relationships always - by definition! - have a point where the person apologizes. This is not the end of the cycle. It is part of its circular and dysfunctional nature.

AH apologized to me many times. Words mattered not. His actions didn't change. Until they did. And when they did it was obvious and easy to see.


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~*Service Worker*~

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Her journey, my journey is in part what I did.  We could journey together just not in the same shoes or in the same place.  Her recovery from alcohol and drugs was more for her than for me although the disease affecters everything it comes into contact with.  Part of my program was to alter or kill my expectations so that I wasn't putting way to much weight on others including the alcoholic/addict to live life as I wanted life to be.  When my alcoholic/addict wife started to act differently I was doing that myself as it was called recovery which what I needed for me regardless of whether she was using or drinking or not.  I would as I came to understand, always need this program and while I also understood that changes had to happen the "we" area also she was left to being responsible for her own changes.  We separated 5 times...it is what was necessary for us...we loved each other in that crazy and fraudulent way that spouses do when other addictive things actually are more powerful and important.  We tried and in the end I had good time in Al-Anon, she found sobriety and cleanliness from drugging and we were in love with no reason to be married to each other.  I never got a piece of paper or special notice that the woman I decided to marry would be most special and there forever because I promised I would.  Alcoholism affect everything it comes into contact with mostly very negatively with a better chance because of recovery.   If he is changed...let him continue while you continue your own necessary changes.   (((hugs))) smile



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~*Service Worker*~

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It isn't like you are going to divorce him and then suddenly disappear. If he is serious, you'll know it in time. My aunt divorced her alcoholic husband. He did stop drinking and he also dealt with some other issues. They are back together again and both are now in their 80s. My aunt's decision to divorce him helped put space and distance between them that needed to be there. When the time was right for them, they remarried. Marriage, separation and divorce are legal terms. They are boundaries that can be erected or relaxed. The important thing to me is how well each person in the relationship is holding up their part of the contract made and how well they can navigate within the boundaries of those legal parameters. If one partner is not holding up their part of the contract agreed upon, then the boundaries of the contract can be changed. I divorced my x. That doesn't mean I didn't hold hope until he died that he would get sober, stay sober and grow up. He didn't. If I'd stayed married to him, he wouldn't have done any of those things either.  My love for my husband didn't die.  What I was willing to live with did.  None of the contracts we agreed to really had anything to do with our relationship.  Just how well we could mutually navigate within the confines of our relationship.



-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 19th of October 2014 06:05:13 PM



-- Edited by grateful2be on Sunday 19th of October 2014 06:07:55 PM

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



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Thank you all for your sharing. I am a big believer in actions speak louder than words. I think the reason I have been stumped is because I have had so little interaction with AH, I do not have a lot of examples of actions. I do not go looking into what he is doing and have been very comfortable on my side of the street. In a closer examination though, there are many examples of him being angry, accusatory, judgemental and downright mean to me. I know he is hurting, but that is not how you treat someone you love.

He has blown 0.0 on the breathalyzer for his visits with the kids for several months. Which in total is about 5 times. He does not ask to see the kids more often than a dinner every other week.

He supposedly is attending meetings regularly and has a sponsor. He has a counselor who specializes in addiction. At our lunch, he made a few comments that were clearly "on program" so I know he has some awareness. Whether he believes that and is living that I do not know.

I have always looked at our situation as me and the kids on one track moving along on our journey and recovery and AH on his own track. I have said to friends that if it is God's will, those two tracks will someday cross again. I chose to stay in the here and now and not set expectations for the future. I have been really ok with that. I knew that if we were meant to be together, we could do so after divorce. I have gotten a lot stronger and happier. My kids seem happier.

Deep down, I know that I need to keep this divorce moving forward. I am chickening out in telling him where I am at. I know that I am not being honest with him. I am angry at myself for this because I know that it is not right. I just couldn't get the words out. I feel insanely guilty for putting an end to this marriage. I can tell everyone but him how I truly feel and I know that is wrong. I have given him false hope. In the beginning I was doing it to buy time to get my affairs in order-get a job, work my program and take care of my kids. Now I need to face the music so to speak, but I just don't know how.



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Senior Member

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In response to: I want to tell him, I just don't know how. 

 

Do you have a sponsor?

 

If so, the sandwich technique has really worked for me!

The sandwich: commit action to sponsor before action

follow through with action 

call sponsor afterward to confirm I did action 

 

The sandwich technique has helped me say what a mean and mean what I say and give me the courage that I have needed. In the midst of some seriously hard action I have still felt very much connected to my sponsor and my program because of reaching out before hand and after. It's like taking your HP with you :)



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~*Service Worker*~

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TS: It sounds like he's in early recovery at best. He is still a baby and is learning coping skills. At the very least, my suggestion would be to let him find his way til it is clear he has over 1 year sober and maybe 2. This has nothing to do with getting a divorce, but with moving back in together. If he is getting sober (and even if not), his learning curve will be quicker living on his own.

If he is really working the program, a lot could change in a couple years, but that is a long time to wait and, as stated in other threads, only like 1 in 20 alcoholics even make it to 2 years sober when they try.

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