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Post Info TOPIC: "For old times sake" just does not work anymore


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3281
Date:
"For old times sake" just does not work anymore


Once upon a time I had a very good recovery friend, was on his recovery site for a long time, we were like a little family...My first taste of aca and alanon and i grew to love many members, especially this guy and an older guy who founded the site with him...We did some great recovery work together...I cut my teeth in 12 steps on this little yahoo group...Well true to form,  "this too shall pass"  and this good little group was coming to an end...it was hard to accept...this was my start in 12 steps, however change was on the horizon and little by little the group disbanded but we always kept in touch..emails...tel/cons...a few of us got close and i had hoped it would last...I think the old fella who helped found it is passed on....I have tried numerous times to find him by phone, email to no avail....but i still had "M" and we were FOC

 
I would do his general ledger on his books, send it back to him via email and he would send me a check...I even did his income taxes...same thing..send him via fedx the completed forms and he would cut a check......We were that tight, he trusted me w/his finances...His repair shop business...i helped him set up company on quickbooks and got him well trained in posting his income/expenses and reconciling it to his capital b/c we were not using checkbook or ccards....it was a quick and dirty, albeit accepted by GAAP  b/c he was NOT a corporation or multi partner LLC or anything but a sole proprietor, so things could be done a bit more loosly.....
 
we facebook together and more and more he would "get my advice" re: his books via email, a question here and there and i always answered him and that was the only time i heard from him...I never asked for payment b/c it was a slam dunk little question, a one sentence affair, so what the heck?? 
 
i invited him to call me from time to time, to chat with me, to tell me about his singing and his adventures out fishing but never heard anything but once in a while a "bookkeeping" question and that was IT
 
this past summer my dog passed and NOT A WORD from him...yet HIS dog passes and I am offering comfort, but this time sorta at a distance...I gave my condolences b/c ANY time one loses a pet or another loved one, ya put aside simmering doubts about our once pleasing friendship and you acknowledge their loss..not up close and personal anymore, but nevertheless an acknowledgement of their loss...So no call from me...Just a nice facebook condolence...
 
then yesterday he CALLS me....and i am at work....I tell him i am at work and he jumps in with "i have a question" re: the quickbooks...and i tell him AGAIN , I am at work. so he says he will email me........
 
he emails me with his question and i very very briefly answered it and I mean one sentence job and i misunderstood his ??, he was not asking how to post finance charges HE pays, but how to classify finance charges his CLIENT pays, so i tell him what to do...again...I am real brief...
 
he emails me and says  "oh i got it, thanks"
 
Something in side of me said  "ohhh no way...Time for a huge boundary for me"   so i email him back adn i say , to the tune of    "I never hear from you...Daisy dies and no word from you....the only time I hear from you is when you want to know a bookkeeping ??? for which i charge money ..That is my living...It would have been *nice* had you ASKED me  #1, how are you would have been nice and #2, is this an ok time to call you might have shown me you at least have SOME respect for me... I  got neither consideration and my part in this is allowing this to happen, i helped you anyway but i feel used....My error, and I shall work on me re: this letting myself get used by folks who don't even get in touch w/me when I have had a lot of stuff happen to me of late...most good, but some not......
 
I also told him I have a saying i tell my kids and my sponsees......"DONT let the weeds over take the path to the house of a friend".......
 
i ended  the email saying that if bookkeeping coaching is all he wanted from me, that the well had run dry after all this time....
 
NOT once do i hear from him unless he has a bookkeeping question...I allowed it...I let "old times"  cloud my thinking about one who has become a user and not really a friend anymore
 
He writes me back with a LONG list of excuses as to "why" he has not kept in touch, why he never contacts me and perhaps this won't change b/c he has so much on his plate....like he is the only one struggling...Not a word about how I am doing?? no apology for dissing me when Daisy died....nothing but a long list of excuses why hes been a "no show"  re the friendship department and we used to be good friends or were we????  
 
I write back and tell him i am sorry for his struggles, but he is not alone, most of us are struggling to survive in one way or the other and if he reached out and NOTICED his former friends he would see that he is NOT alone but with lots of company....I wished him well.....Told him I hoped things got better for him, but in view of his "I may not change re: keeping in touch"  i said that had to include his sending me bookkeeping questions as well...I don't compartmentalize on friendships...If you dont' care if i am well/sick....happy/sad then u don't need my advice, either.......detaching from a friend is detaching...you aren't interested in me personally, so I accept it...Friendship has waned...I accept it...I also asked HIM to accept that "school" is now closed.....I wished him good luck in his life path but I accepted that he has become an acquaintence....I thanked him for the good recovery times...Told him I was grateful for the lessons, but I was moving on.....
 
He wrote back  "i'm at a loss for words"....
 
and then i got snarky....I said "you were never at a loss for words when you were  asking me about your books...You were very articulate about expressing your needs for my professional advice and its my mistake to have let you use me for as long as i did and this is something I will work on re: my recovery:  Knowing WHEN its time to re-assess a friendship and to determine is it still mutual or a one sided  "me give--you take"  affair and to respond with my boundaries
 
I ended the note with a  "good luck--hope your situations get better---I have learned something in this and i'll thank you for that"
 
I am kinda sad but i would rather experience the softer pain of  accepting the truth and responding in kind, rather than the hard pain of denial..
 
I was in denial about this friendship that had ended...We shared a lot of good times and if he ever wants to meet me 1/2 way again (amends) i would cautiously be open for reconcile, but not with it like this....anytime we talked on phone it would be me calling his VM to see how he was...never a call back...OH unless he had a bookkeeping question.......Lesson learned....It hurts, but again, denial only invoices me harder later....I accept it now and I wish him the best but its time for me to move on.....I will remember the good times...the great recovery memories...the good work we all did on that tiny group that was my home for so long......
 
another loss...but I'm  ok....windows close...doors open.......I have my health...i am meeting my needs...I am sad, but this too shall pass....I have much to be thankful for...I am meeting my needs, taking care of me  AND my daughter and I are doing well together....we have a "good will safari" coming up next Sat...if she does a no show??? no worries...I'll go...Have fun....Life goes on....And I am going with it..
 
sorry for loong post....but its like another death of sorts....We called each other brother and sister....I am open to a reconcile, but things would have to happen on BOTH our sides for that to happen....me with my boundaries....him with his valuing true friends and accepting and applying that friendship is a blessing for BOTH parties,not just an occasional convenience........i can only change ME!!!!  


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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3026
Date:

It's sad when you finally realize that there might be a one sided relationship....friends or lovers but whatever it hurts. You try and try to make an effort to change it but the other party just does think or doesn't care. You can either except it or do what you did and let it go and move on. Your absolutely right...you can only change you..

We love you Rose and I'm so glad you are back here at MIP....you are not alone

((( hugs )))


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 Lord, put your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth

Speak only when you feel that your words are better than your silence.

 


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 1887
Date:

It is no good realising you're the one making all of the effort. I think that's something most of us can identify with! We can only look after our own side of the street though, I guess. There are plenty of people who love and appreciate you anyway.

__________________

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3281
Date:

Cathyinaz wrote:

It's sad when you finally realize that there might be a one sided relationship....friends or lovers but whatever it hurts. You try and try to make an effort to change it but the other party just does think or doesn't care. You can either except it or do what you did and let it go and move on. Your absolutely right...you can only change you..

We love you Rose and I'm so glad you are back here at MIP....you are not alone

((( hugs )))


 (((((((((((((((((((Cathy)))))))))))))))))) good to see you up and posting.....thank you for this lovely note  "M" and i go back my entire recovery road....it will be 13 years in February.....i will miss him, but I am moving on, with sadness but w/focus to take care of me.....................HUGS to you sweetie



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 3281
Date:

missmeliss wrote:

It is no good realising you're the one making all of the effort. I think that's something most of us can identify with! We can only look after our own side of the street though, I guess. There are plenty of people who love and appreciate you anyway.


 ((((Mellly)))))))  it feels like life, at times, it is like I have this hot potato in my hands, an i am tossing it up to get relief from the heat, but then that potato has some warm spots that are pleasing, so here i am tossing it up, catching it, not liking it so i toss it up again , looking for that "warm spot" that i can hang onto...put my cheek against.....i guess i gotta make my own "warm spots"  hangin with good folks w/you allon this warm group  and i think, perhaps, i will go to the gym and go for a swim.....being in water is soothing, calming...a very healthy respite........

I hope things are progressing well for you....I read your posts and I ask HP to guide you, strengthen you b/c you are very very special here on this board...I am glad we got to be friends..........u r so right...I was making all the effort...he was there when i began to give birth to the recovery me...he guided me a lot but like any "new born" I am growing up and seeing that my world is bigger than he is.....I am sad over this ....worried about my BFF whose sister passed and I am sad over her passing.....But I am powerless over both events.....so like you said, I  am gonna look after my own side of the street ................hugs



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 1887
Date:

Made me think of this, lol.

Kitty-and-Potato_zps43351106.jpg



__________________

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see? (Lewis Caroll)



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3281
Date:

missmeliss wrote:

Made me think of this, lol.

Kitty-and-Potato_zps43351106.jpg


 HAHAHAHA.........Oh Melly, you are a 24 carat keeper.............LOVE this....I am smiling....look at that ambitious kitty with claws aready, and determined look on his/her face.............SO cute......thank you for the smile I have on my face now.....I think that potato is gonna learn something about perseverence, LOL



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 

PP


~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3964
Date:

A timely and wise post that gives me words to ponder as I assess some of my relationships.  You took a difficult and courageous action, Neshama.  It does hurt to realize that one is being used and it takes guts to see the reality of it, accept our part in it and take the best action.



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Paula



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3281
Date:

PP wrote:

A timely and wise post that gives me words to ponder as I assess some of my relationships.  You took a difficult and courageous action, Neshama.  It does hurt to realize that one is being used and it takes guts to see the reality of it, accept our part in it and take the best action.


 Hey friend (((((P)))))))  i am glad that this had something to offer up to you and others...sharing my experiences is good therapy for me and if i can bless another with a tidbit of something they can use, then all the better.......I haven't logged onto facebook yet and wondering...do I keep him or unfriend and really cut the ties??? I will cogitate on that  action and do what my HP guides me to do....He taught me sooo much...I "grew up" with him ...hes an "A" who has been sober for 20 plus years and I pray he works his recovery and stays sober......I don't want to feel bad about him....I only want to remember the good times and the great recovery work we did and leave it at that....

I can take care of me and stand to my boundaries and be effective on self care w/out being cruel....Something you wonderful folks have taught me...Over the years, here, I have bumped along, made awful mistakes, made amends , learned and as i grow the mistakes still happen, but instead of denial/defensiveness, I just  make amends, hopefully adequately, and I am on to the next phase in life.....



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 7576
Date:

One of my codependent issues involved doing most of the work in some relationships. I learned to let go of doing so much and waited to see what happened with the other party. If nothing came from their end after an appropriate length of time (and I'm talking about friendships here - not just friendly relationships), I stopped doing anything to keep the relationship going, too. We were both worthy people and it appeared we were simply going down different paths to me. It appears this fellow was doing more than simply choosing not to nurture the relationship. Glad you will be refusing to give him any more dimes when he isn't even showing you a nickel.

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"Darkness is full of possibility." Leunig



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3281
Date:

grateful2be wrote:

One of my codependent issues involved doing most of the work in some relationships. I learned to let go of doing so much and waited to see what happened with the other party. If nothing came from their end after an appropriate length of time (and I'm talking about friendships here - not just friendly relationships), I stopped doing anything to keep the relationship going, too. We were both worthy people and it appeared we were simply going down different paths to me. It appears this fellow was doing more than simply choosing not to nurture the relationship. Glad you will be refusing to give him any more dimes when he isn't even showing you a nickel.


 (((((((((C)))))))))) oh u know??   i was gonna wait and see what he did with my email....any response?? an amend???  and ya know??? if he wants to reconcile, I am not in a cave...he CAN reach out if he chooses to and its "ok" either way........i know i am taking care of my side of the street...WOW, i got some GREAT esh from you all on this.....sure do appreciate it.....I think I am gonna just mentally give him a goodbye prayer and let it go.....and that means facebook as well b/c i think u r spot on...he was doing "more than simply choosing not to nurture the relationship"   yep...i agree.....I am going to, without a sound, take him off my facebook...let him get his "dimes" from another.......and i relate to the first sentence u say....i am learning , albeit at times slow, but i am progressing in the "doing most of the work in some relationships"  I think he got by with as much as he did is b/c of our history together in that I was 12 steps born in his group...But ya know??? I don't owe him any more than the good friendship I gave him all these years........thanks, ALL of you for giving me stuff to think about and work on.............ITS GOOD TO BE BACK!!!!!! 



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



Senior Member

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Posts: 295
Date:

He sounds very selfish. I'm glad you stood up for yourself - he needs to find someone else to give him free advice! (Or he needs to pay someone, like the rest of us have to!)

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~*Service Worker*~

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Posts: 3281
Date:

Fairlee wrote:

He sounds very selfish. I'm glad you stood up for yourself - he needs to find someone else to give him free advice! (Or he needs to pay someone, like the rest of us have to!)


 Hey Fairlee, u know, I agree with this...100%...I have to pay, even friends when i need their professional advice or work or whatever...the only exception is my sort of adopted "brother" whom I have been neighbors with for 20 years....i do stuff for him, and he takes care of my auto...its a trade...mutual benefit and we have a beautiful relationship b/c neither takes advantage of the other......I just don't understand how anyone can do this and not feel "icky" about it??? and yea, let him PAY like the rest of us do.....thanks for sharing....



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Live and let live and do it with peace and goodwill to all!!!! 



~*Service Worker*~

Status: Offline
Posts: 3281
Date:

the END of a chapture........

His and my exchanges.......I am "OK" with this

HIS "Amend" to me................

 


HIS "AMEND" to me when I called him out as illustrated in my letter to him, re: his calling me at work to  use me again.....
 
 
 
you answered the call, I'm at work is everything ok. That didn't encourage any hi how are ya small talk. The only reason I called on you to ask that question is that a couple years back you were tutoring me and helped me set it up, it made sense to me if I had a question about adding a function to it, I should ask you. 
 
Since I had a pop up open, demanding I do something before I could proceed, I wasn't going any further until I made a choice. Since you were not available, I called on a customer who is a book keeper and asked him about it. He doesn't use QB for invoicing, so he didn't have a ready answer, but he helped me make a choice that qb was content with, so I could finish my work.
 
He also recommended a book  by Laura Madeira, QB 2012 in depth. I seldom need to change anything on my QB, but I will go online for answers when I do have a question, so I don't stretch your boundaries or comfort zones.
 
Best wishes,
 
************************************************
 
MY ANSWER TO HIS EMAIL
 
 
Rosie Lightshines 
 
 
i said "is everthing ok" b/c i am considerate and thought maybe emergency happened since I "hear from you so much"  sorry...my bad for just asking a ?? to one I never hear from  "is everything ok"  like no accident or death or something....Glad u got help an a book.....seems you not only no longer want to nurture our friendship, but for all the "dimes" i gave you through the years, you don't even have  a nickel for me......its ok...I accept it....but to be contacted when you only have a question is out and out usary and I called you out on it....of course my part in this "relationship" or "friendship"  was to do all the effort in it while u did none....again...my lesson............
 
Good luck in your journey
 
Rosie
 
******************************************************
 
ON HIS FACEBOOK BEFORE I UNFRIENDED HIM
 
I truly wish you the best on your journey....I know in this exchange I was correct to stand up for me....as a coda i have to watch b/c i do have the tendency to do more effort in friendship than the other does......only hearing from you when you have a question is no more acceptable to me...I deserve either to be let go if relationship has died,  OR to be loved for myself, not what ??s i can answer then  "poof"   gone till the next question......I only want to remember the good recovery times we had and let go of any bad feelings....my part in this was letting this one sided friendship go on and on, answering ??s only but never any interest in ME or my poor Daisy leaving when I took time out of MY busy schedule and MY heaps of stuff on MY plate to send condolence to YOU re: Kindre's death....I was not going to diss you like you did to me....repaying coldness like that with coldness only brings me down and i won't do that..........we were in each other's lives for a season and now that has ended, I see...I see no chance for reconcile, so sadly, I let you go in the course of taking care of me.....Its that simple....i want friendships to be a mutual nurturing experience or I let it go...........take care......I only want to remember the good.....PEACE
-
  


-- Edited by neshema2 on Sunday 19th of October 2014 07:59:28 AM

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